Poll: Do you like Israel?

[TheIronRuler]

-snip-
Yeah Gaza is a big issue, especially considering the fact that if a state of Palestine is created... who gets Gaza? If they do, then you've got big fat Israel sitting between that and West Bank. GG, time to build the world's largest overpass.

If you glance at the original UN '48 plan you'll see what they had in mind.

-snip-

Wow. Absolutely no context at all. That's great. And if you don't speak Arabic or Hebrew, you can assume that the people in the video are saying whatever the hell you want them to say. It can be interpreted however you want, depending on your preexisting bias.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe the kid in question actually did something to merit police interrogation? And it's not like they tackled him and threw the cuffs on him. They seemed very professional and calm about it, given the circumstances. It was the women who were flipping out. And if making people act hysterical when you arrest someone that they don't want you to is a human rights violation, then every police force in the world should be tried for crimes against humanity.

Israel's done some pretty uncool stuff, I'll admit. But this? This is just life in a highly unstable region, not senseless violence.

I speak Hebrew fluently and I've studied Arabic for three years, so I can make out most of it.
Let me direct you to my comment, I'll just copy it:
---

Right.
Here it goes.
A bloke in the video says that he's 9. He says.
We can't arrest them unless they're over 12. Doesn't make any sense.
After the police car stopped, the kid ran to the woman holding the camera and she began shouting in Hebrew "Child, Child" which means that they can't legally arrest him.
Then a few others come in, one claims to be his mother so they offer her to come with him but she refuses and instead wants him to get off the car.
...
Why did the car stop in the first place?
Why was there a camera stationed there?
It was a planned ambush. The waiting behind the stone wall and threw a few rocks at the vehicle. Then it stopped, two military police came out and began running after the child.
I'm not sure whether they can do that or not, but it was a planned ambush so that it could be on tape. What was also there is the child THROWING ROCKS AT A POLICE CAR.
You saw his run at the car after it passed the fence? Throw something, you hear a thid - the rock hit the car. The camera was positioned as an ambush.
This is another attempt to make media propaganda.
---
Here it is, I hope you learned something.
He threw rocks at the car. It was a planned ambush for the camera to catch something interesting. Did you notice that they didn't do anything to the camera?
Because everything they did was legal.

 

[Dr Snakeman]

-snip-
Yeah Gaza is a big issue, especially considering the fact that if a state of Palestine is created... who gets Gaza? If they do, then you've got big fat Israel sitting between that and West Bank. GG, time to build the world's largest overpass.

If you glance at the original UN '48 plan you'll see what they had in mind.

-snip-

Wow. Absolutely no context at all. That's great. And if you don't speak Arabic or Hebrew, you can assume that the people in the video are saying whatever the hell you want them to say. It can be interpreted however you want, depending on your preexisting bias.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe the kid in question actually did something to merit police interrogation? And it's not like they tackled him and threw the cuffs on him. They seemed very professional and calm about it, given the circumstances. It was the women who were flipping out. And if making people act hysterical when you arrest someone that they don't want you to is a human rights violation, then every police force in the world should be tried for crimes against humanity.

Israel's done some pretty uncool stuff, I'll admit. But this? This is just life in a highly unstable region, not senseless violence.

I speak Hebrew fluently and I've studied Arabic for three years, so I can make out most of it.
Let me direct you to my comment, I'll just copy it:
---

Right.
Here it goes.
A bloke in the video says that he's 9. He says.
We can't arrest them unless they're over 12. Doesn't make any sense.
After the police car stopped, the kid ran to the woman holding the camera and she began shouting in Hebrew "Child, Child" which means that they can't legally arrest him.
Then a few others come in, one claims to be his mother so they offer her to come with him but she refuses and instead wants him to get off the car.
...
Why did the car stop in the first place?
Why was there a camera stationed there?
It was a planned ambush. The waiting behind the stone wall and threw a few rocks at the vehicle. Then it stopped, two military police came out and began running after the child.
I'm not sure whether they can do that or not, but it was a planned ambush so that it could be on tape. What was also there is the child THROWING ROCKS AT A POLICE CAR.
You saw his run at the car after it passed the fence? Throw something, you hear a thid - the rock hit the car. The camera was positioned as an ambush.
This is another attempt to make media propaganda.
---
Here it is, I hope you learned something.
He threw rocks at the car. It was a planned ambush for the camera to catch something interesting. Did you notice that they didn't do anything to the camera?
Because everything they did was legal.

Awesome. Anything to paint Israel as "teh wurst contree EVARRRRR!"

Again, not a huge fan, know they've done some bad stuff, but seriously, guys? Why not point your indignation towards a country that deserves it, like China?

 

[Comrade_Beric]

Many seem to believe that the entire reason for the conflict boils down to religion. While it is true that religion plays its role in both places, Palestine needs no religious excuse for their position.

Israel has to rely on religious literalism and international sympathy for the holocaust to excuse their behavior of stealing land, bombing civilians, and declaring their nation to be defined as racially Jewish. Palestinians need no such excuses. Some Arabs may speak of the conflict in religious terms, but their cause is political and, in my opinion, is entirely just. There are still people alive today who remember living on the land their fathers have owned for centuries. Palestinians are a group of people who, because of their non-Jewish status, have had their land simply taken from them and re-purposed for the occupation of a new, racially-defined, nation. I have nothing but sympathy for the Palestinians and to anyone who brings up the supposed terrorist acts done by them I say: Would the Russian Partisans or French Resistance have been as effective if they'd laid down their arms and begged the Nazis to only take half of Europe?

 

[Axelgear]

How can I not like Israel? The country's an artist's dream. Ancient buildings, hidden stories, religious drama, long-standing blood feuds, lies and more lies from organizations that seek to win hearts and minds from foreign powers... It's a gold mine for stories, art, and more.

I know that's probably a cold way to describe it but the rest is all politics, and I don't feel like getting into that.

 

[Sojoez]

I used to live in Greece, I've seen Israel in pictures and some movies. Just another Mediterranean country. Nice beaches, hot weather lots of rocks.
Overall, not bad.
Now politics on the other hand...

Yeah, no comment. Don't want to get involved.

 

[loc978]

They had a bloody start, but that wasn't their fault. The UN promised a jewish state and outlined them populating the mostly empty regions of then-Palestine... but after the jews began arriving and the Palestinians clamored to reject them, what did the UN do? They left the newly-minted mix of populations to sort it out themselves... and sort it out they did. This is how wars get started, folks.
Laying blame on any one group for that situation is a bit silly... and very much a moot point at this juncture.

As for Israel as it stands, though? Despite disagreeing with some of its leaders, I support it wholeheartedly. It's the only government in the region that's not a theocracy... and I would personally like to see any form of theocracy in the world brought low. Separating religion from statecraft the world over is the only way we'll ever see predominantly rational discussion in diplomacy.

 

[TheIronRuler]

Many seem to believe that the entire reason for the conflict boils down to religion. While it is true that religion plays its role in both places, Palestine needs no religious excuse for their position.

Israel has to rely on religious literalism and international sympathy for the holocaust to excuse their behavior of stealing land, bombing civilians, and declaring their nation to be defined as racially Jewish. Palestinians need no such excuses. Some Arabs may speak of the conflict in religious terms, but their cause is political and, in my opinion, is entirely just. There are still people alive today who remember living on the land their fathers have owned for centuries. Palestinians are a group of people who, because of their non-Jewish status, have had their land simply taken from them and re-purposed for the occupation of a new, racially-defined, nation. I have nothing but sympathy for the Palestinians and to anyone who brings up the supposed terrorist acts done by them I say: Would the Russian Partisans or French Resistance have been as effective if they'd laid down their arms and begged the Nazis to only take half of Europe?

That is so wrong I don't even know where to start correcting you.
...
First of all, your dear refugees.
We didn't deport them or force them out.
In '48 before the British left the Arab leaders told the local Muslims to leave mixed cities (both Jews and Muslims lived side by side) and flee away so that they won't be caught in the crossfire that will be the result from a war between the Arab nations and the fledgling Israel. Here. The refugees aren't returning because they left Israel out of their own choice.
If we let them in there would be a large percentage of Arabs here and in a democracy every single politician we ever had knows not to do that mistake. Basically, they're screwed since the Arabs are using them as an excuse while Israel doesn't want them.
...
Say hello to Zionism, a nationalism movement that believes the Jews to be a nation, and therefore entitled of their own land and country. Which isn't racism. It is not unlike French patriotism or British nationalism.
Reasons for choosing Israel as the place to have their country is so damn long that I could just tell you that in a PM or point you to a previous post of mine.
...
Say hello to about 1.3 Million Arabs currently living in Israel, comprising of about ~18% of the general population (last time I checked.) . They live in Israel their lives, work here, live here, go to hospitals, enjoy the welfare and pay taxes.
What? You didn't know that there are over one million Palestinians in Israel?
What? You didn't know that we have Muslim Parliament members and a party for Arabs?
What? You didn;t know we have Muslim court judges and lawyers? Doctors? Captains of the Industry?
But YOU SAID that they're supposed to be oppressed, because Israel took their land and threw out all of the Muslims!
I wonder what should I do... Maybe you're lying, or perhaps they are all just Druz!

 

[The-Epicly-Named-Man]

I know nothing about it, except for what the news told me and they never say anything good about anything.

Yeah this is pretty much how I feel. I mean, what I hear about the Gaza Strip is pretty awful, but I don't really know a lot about the situation. They get minus points for their secret service faking Irish passports though.

 

[TheIronRuler]

I used to live in Greece, I've seen Israel in pictures and some movies. Just another Mediterranean country. Nice beaches, hot weather lots of rocks.
Overall, not bad.
Now politics on the other hand...

Yeah, no comment. Don't want to get involved.

But the jellyfish that come to our beaches in August are just insane.

 

[Sentient6]

Well, I live here. So no.

 

[TheIronRuler]

I know nothing about it, except for what the news told me and they never say anything good about anything.

Yeah this is pretty much how I feel. I mean, what I hear about the Gaza Strip is pretty awful, but I don't really know a lot about the situation. They get minus points for their secret service faking Irish passports though.

Yes they do. I'm ashamed of the screw-ups in our secret service.
We had the same thing with New-Zealand and their passports.

 

[biggskanz]

Israel is a racist/apartheid state. I don't like Israel.

 

[Jumplion]

Many seem to believe that the entire reason for the conflict boils down to religion. While it is true that religion plays its role in both places, Palestine needs no religious excuse for their position.

Israel has to rely on religious literalism and international sympathy for the holocaust to excuse their behavior of stealing land, bombing civilians, and declaring their nation to be defined as racially Jewish. Palestinians need no such excuses. Some Arabs may speak of the conflict in religious terms, but their cause is political and, in my opinion, is entirely just. There are still people alive today who remember living on the land their fathers have owned for centuries. Palestinians are a group of people who, because of their non-Jewish status, have had their land simply taken from them and re-purposed for the occupation of a new, racially-defined, nation. I have nothing but sympathy for the Palestinians and to anyone who brings up the supposed terrorist acts done by them I say: Would the Russian Partisans or French Resistance have been as effective if they'd laid down their arms and begged the Nazis to only take half of Europe?

Ugh, I'm going to hate myself for responding to this, buuuuuuuuuuuuut......

So the solution to this problem, of which you describe people alive today remembering the time they lived on their own land, is to evict more people out of the land (7+ million)? I really find this "solution" detrimental to everyone involved because it will only make the situation cyclical. It only ignores the bigger, core issue of relieving tension and just trying to get everyone to play nice.

And trying to compare terrorist organizations who not only want to destroy Israel completely, but bring down western civilization and whatnot, to organizations during WWII, one of the largest conflicts in history with shit going down yo, is kind of weird to say the least.

Bleh, me and my big fat mouth and itchy fingers. I've started something, didn't I?

 

[TheIronRuler]

Israel is a racist/apartheid state. I don't like Israel.

Yay. Another person that doesn't know what he's talking about.

 

[VaderMan92]

personally I don't see any thing wrong with Israel and I think the Jews should have their own homeland. That said the fact that the USA props up Israel with military and monetary aid is the reason most of the mid east hates us. But too late now its not like their gonna get un-pissed at us if we stop supporting them.

 

[FuzzyRaccoon]

Hmmm, I know very little about Isreal. I mean, to be honest, I'm actually incredibly confused about what's happening over there in the middle east.

On a side note, I find arabic script to be very beautiful. I also think whitewashed middle-eastern guys are hot.
That's about as far as my opinion goes on the subject.

 

[MoeTheMonk]

My support is for Israel totally. They are assaulted across the Palestinian border every single day, by bombs, rockets, the works. Almost every war they've waged have been in response to outside aggression. No reason not to support them.

 

[Something Amyss]

How do all of you gamers out there feel about my homeland?

Israel? Fine.

Israel's policies which border on genocide in the name of "self defense?"

Not so fine.

I have serious problems with human rights and ethics violations. Otherwise, I'm rather ambivalent.

 

[jpoon]

Not a big fan of Israel and their atrocious policies. America needs to stop funneling billions of dollars of money a year to them.

 

[TheIronRuler]

personally I don't see any thing wrong with Israel and I think the Jews should have their own homeland. That said the fact that the USA props up Israel with military and monetary aid is the reason most of the mid east hates us. But too late now its not like their gonna get un-pissed at us if we stop supporting them.

Did you know that you're giving money to Lebanon and Palestine (West Bank autonomy) too?
Yes.
...
Their hate doesn't come from that.