So long as you exclude translation issues, language evolution, and poetic language.DJjaffacake said:Why not? That is what a day is, is it not? At least on Earth.
So long as you exclude translation issues, language evolution, and poetic language.DJjaffacake said:Why not? That is what a day is, is it not? At least on Earth.
And an entire school of monks in the Cluny tradition that interpreted the Bible in an explicitely mystical fashion, rather than as a history text.BrassButtons said:So long as you exclude translation issues, language evolution, and poetic language.DJjaffacake said:Why not? That is what a day is, is it not? At least on Earth.
Assuming that god is a being outside of space and time, a day for him could be as short or as long as he liked it.DJjaffacake said:Why not? That is what a day is, is it not? At least on Earth. And the only religion I'm aware of that believes in a god that lives on a distinct planet, and could therefore reasonably claim that the day in question is that planet's day, and not Earth's, is Mormonism. So unless you are a Mormon, I don't see why it is hard to believe that, "day," means, "day."zombiejoe said:Why not both?
I see myself as a religious man, but I believe in evolution too. I've heard it argued that the Bible's creation story, in a sense, still works. The universe is created, then planets, then animals, then man.
You don't actually think the "days" mentioned are 24 hour days, right?
Sounds like you don't understand the concept of omnipotence.DJjaffacake said:Why not? That is what a day is, is it not? At least on Earth. And the only religion I'm aware of that believes in a god that lives on a distinct planet, and could therefore reasonably claim that the day in question is that planet's day, and not Earth's, is Mormonism. So unless you are a Mormon, I don't see why it is hard to believe that, "day," means, "day."zombiejoe said:Why not both?
I see myself as a religious man, but I believe in evolution too. I've heard it argued that the Bible's creation story, in a sense, still works. The universe is created, then planets, then animals, then man.
You don't actually think the "days" mentioned are 24 hour days, right?
I'm went to a good quality public university so don't turn this into a class thing. Unless you go to a completely shitty school, it's easy to at least acquire the basics of an education. The part where you might have had bad experiences with some professors doesn't detract from the overall points I made either.Jarimir said:/snip
Is there any actual evidence that any of those are in effect?BrassButtons said:So long as you exclude translation issues, language evolution, and poetic language.
A day is something that only exists on planets. It's the period of their rotation. If an individual existed outside of space and time, he or she would have no day at all. Therefore there's no reason to assume that when the Bible says a day, it means anything other than an Earth day.zombiejoe said:Assuming that god is a being outside of space and time, a day for him could be as short or as long as he liked it.
A) See above.Hafrael said:Sounds like you don't understand the concept of omnipotence.
OP: I support evolution, and am as Catholic as any good Irishman.
All you've done is to provide a possible definition for a "day", and then assume that definition MUST be applicable to the phrase in the bible. Since the Bible contains many phrases of multiple interpretations, and is rife with symbolism and metaphor, you know no such thing. I can write tons of different meanings for "Days".DJjaffacake said:Is there any actual evidence that any of those are in effect?BrassButtons said:So long as you exclude translation issues, language evolution, and poetic language.
A day is something that only exists on planets. It's the period of their rotation. If an individual existed outside of space and time, he or she would have no day at all. Therefore there's no reason to assume that when the Bible says a day, it means anything other than an Earth day.zombiejoe said:Assuming that god is a being outside of space and time, a day for him could be as short or as long as he liked it.
The Hebrew word yom (יוֹם has the most common meaning of "day" (as in Yom Kippur - Day of Atonement) but also has the older, more obscure secondary meaning of "a large unspecified amount of time". There's of course lots of arguing between the confirmations on the context in which yom is used in Genesis. In other instances in the Old Testament it is much clearly that it's the second meaning.DJjaffacake said:Is there any actual evidence that any of those are in effect?BrassButtons said:So long as you exclude translation issues, language evolution, and poetic language.
It's not a 'possible definition' it's the definition. On Earth, a day is 24 hours. On other planets, a day is however long it takes for them to rotate once. Everywhere else, there is no such thing as a day. All the examples you gave are clearly not meant to be taken literally. If you were to say, "On Wednesday I did X," most people would assume you meant exactly what you said. And that's what the Bible says, that on a given day God did something.Murrdox said:All you've done is to provide a possible definition for a "day", and then assume that definition MUST be applicable to the phrase in the bible. Since the Bible contains many phrases of multiple interpretations, and is rife with symbolism and metaphor, you know no such thing. I can write tons of different meanings for "Days".
"The days past as weeks since she left me" - Do I literally mean that the length of time she left me can be measured in weeks?
"I don't go there until the day the sun rises in the west" - Am I literally referring to a 24 hour period in which the planet reverses its rotation?
"The day has gone by so fast!" - Has the planet's rotation sped up?
Thank you. That would certainly seem to provide a plausible reason why a day might not mean a day.Quaxar said:The Hebrew word yom (יוֹם has the most common meaning of "day" (as in Yom Kippur - Day of Atonement) but also has the older, more obscure secondary meaning of "a large unspecified amount of time". There's of course lots of arguing between the confirmations on the context in which yom is used in Genesis. In other instances in the Old Testament it is much clearly that it's the second meaning.
There are many translation problems in the bible, not surprising for a book that has been translated and further translated through translations so many times. Take the famous "camel through a needle's eye" for example, where an early Greek translation of the original (or possibly a translation thereof) might have slipped and written kamilos (camel) instead of kamêlos (cable, rope).
And therein is the second part of your problem. You're assuming the language in that section of the Bible is meant to be taken literally. The Bible is filled with symbols, double-meanings, and allegory. Since you can't go right up and ask the person who wrote the Bible what they intended, it's often quite ambiguous as to what parts of the Bible are meant to be literal and which are figurative. The entire story of Revelations can be taken symbolically, as can the entire creation story.DJjaffacake said:[All the examples you gave are clearly not meant to be taken literally.
Except Earth didn't exist through most of the shit God was doing...DJjaffacake said:It's not a 'possible definition' it's the definition. On Earth, a day is 24 hours. On other planets, a day is however long it takes for them to rotate once. Everywhere else, there is no such thing as a day. All the examples you gave are clearly not meant to be taken literally. If you were to say, "On Wednesday I did X," most people would assume you meant exactly what you said. And that's what the Bible says, that on a given day God did something.
Lets look a the Bible in the context of when it was written, the people at the time knew nothing of the universe beyond our solar system and next to nothing of our planets history and how it works. They had no concept of day other than the Earth's rotation day. Today people attempt to make the Bible's reference's more rational with what we know now i.e. Days, in order to make it fit in with stuff that disproves it.Murrdox said:All you've done is to provide a possible definition for a "day", and then assume that definition MUST be applicable to the phrase in the bible. Since the Bible contains many phrases of multiple interpretations, and is rife with symbolism and metaphor, you know no such thing. I can write tons of different meanings for "Days".DJjaffacake said:Is there any actual evidence that any of those are in effect?BrassButtons said:So long as you exclude translation issues, language evolution, and poetic language.
A day is something that only exists on planets. It's the period of their rotation. If an individual existed outside of space and time, he or she would have no day at all. Therefore there's no reason to assume that when the Bible says a day, it means anything other than an Earth day.zombiejoe said:Assuming that god is a being outside of space and time, a day for him could be as short or as long as he liked it.
"The days past as weeks since she left me" - Do I literally mean that the length of time she left me can be measured in weeks?
"I don't go there until the day the sun rises in the west" - Am I literally referring to a 24 hour period in which the planet reverses its rotation?
"The day has gone by so fast!" - Has the planet's rotation sped up?
Language evolution certainly is. Slang is a perfect example of it--you get both short-term variations in linguistic patterns, as well as long-term trends due to cultural isolation. Those long-term trends start out the same as the short-term variations, but stick.DJjaffacake said:Is there any actual evidence that any of those are in effect?BrassButtons said:So long as you exclude translation issues, language evolution, and poetic language.
No, it's just one of the definitions. [http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/day]DJjaffacake said:It's not a 'possible definition' it's the definition.
The common example is if you have omnipotence can you make a rock so heavy that you can't lift it? I mean you have the power to do anything right? I can do this down at my local query why can't an Omnipotent being do this? And if he can't do that he is not Omnipotent.Hafrael said:Except Earth didn't exist through most of the shit God was doing...DJjaffacake said:It's not a 'possible definition' it's the definition. On Earth, a day is 24 hours. On other planets, a day is however long it takes for them to rotate once. Everywhere else, there is no such thing as a day. All the examples you gave are clearly not meant to be taken literally. If you were to say, "On Wednesday I did X," most people would assume you meant exactly what you said. And that's what the Bible says, that on a given day God did something.
Also, how is omnipotence self-contradictory?