Poll: Does pirating a game to test it make it okay?

[Entitled]

This question is why demos should return.

There is another side to this, demos aren't as easy to create as you think. Developers can't just "cut out" a chunk of the game and package it into a functional program ready for playing, in most games the code & visuals are a horribly complicated interconnecting mesh, often being worked on by separate teams and then finally being assembled into one playable experience.

Not only that, but most modern game genres, (pretty much anything that is not a shooter or a platformer), don't even fit into the stereotypical "levels that you go through while killing enemies" game design. They simply don't have a part that can be "cut out", not even from an outside perspective.

How do you show a demo of The Sims? or Skyrim? or Dear Esther? Add a time limit? Take away features? You can try, but you are just as likely to lose the game's point, if it wasn't intentionally designed to consist of a series of equally engaging levels like an old NES platformer.

 

[Signa]

Will said downloading deprive the makers of the game of a sale? There's your answer.

 

[madwarper]

Sometimes meeting minimun specs will mean that you're able ro run it, but at a level too low to enjoy anything and often experience drops in fps when there's a lot of avtion on screen.

Then, don't aim for minimum specs. Go for recommended/optimal specs.

According to them, my computer can run Fallout 3.
It cannot.

Do you know why your computer can't run the game?

Simply saying "my computer can't run game XYZ for some unknown reason, so piracy" is piss poor logic.

Captcha: hello sweetie ... Spoilers, Captcha. Spoilers!

 

[Gunner 51]

In a word, yes.
As a previous poster has already said - there's no decent information on a game any more. With reviews being inconsistant, a lack of demos, Youtube Let's Plays being taken down and rentals and second hand sales having content cut and whatsnots - it makes sense for very short term piracy would fill the void left by destruction left by the publishers. Who are behind most of the problems affecting gaming as a whole these days - IMO

However, there is a cut off point where a test becomes outright theft. A single 6 hour test should be enough to tell what's good gameplay and what's corporate gush.

If the publishers weren't so heavy handed with the public with their DLC, DRM and lawyer trigger-happy the pirates would never have such widespread sympathy and people wouldn't need to resort to such measures just to make sure that they get any kind of value for their money.

 

[SoranMBane]

There are sites that you can go to that will tell you these things.
http://www.systemrequirementslab.com/cyri (like this one! I'm sure there are others but this is the one I personally use)

See, for me this site tells me that I can run Sleeping Dogs. I am well above the recommended specs. Thing is, I can't. It crashes all the time and the devs still haven't fixed it (and I am not the only one, check their forums).

I did buy the game, but had I tested it first I would have known that it crashes so often I can't even finish a mission sometimes. I can't get a refund either, yay steam and so on. Definitely converted me to pirating to test things... system requirements don't account for bugs and/or buggy games.

Just anecdotal evidence, I know, but thought I'd throw this in anyway.

Well, I have my own anecdotal evidence to back this up, just in the opposite direction. For me, the system requirements lab told me that my PC couldn't run Left 4 Dead 2, as my video card was apparently not up to par. But when the game was available on Steam as a free weekend deal, I decided to try it out anyway just to be sure, and it turned out that the game actually ran beautifully on my system. So, yeah, the given system requirements are not always entirely accurate for some games.

OT: Now, this particular issue has me slightly conflicted. On one hand, I'm generally a pro-capitalist that wants to be firmly on the side that says "no, piracy is always wrong." But when developers refuse to release PC demos or fail to give accurate system requirements, part of me figures that they probably deserve the lost sales that might arise from people pirating the game as a "demo" and then deciding to stick to the pirated version. I never buy any AAA PC game anyway unless I've played some sort of demo or trial for it, so what would it matter if I threw my principles to the wind and decided to stoop to piracy? The developer will lose out on my money either way. So if developers won't put out proper demos as a show of good faith, I won't look down on people for pirating a game just to make sure it actually works.

 

[Kekkonen1]

Morally, yes I think it is ok. Legally it is obviously not ok, but the industry should start caring less about piracy and more about making better games.

 

[Ziame]

No one brought up one ridiculously important argument against testing by piracy: every time you do it, developers get another reason to blame fucking everything on piracy.

Besides, I stopped doing that just because I can afford to make mistakes. I checked UNLEGALS Fallout 3, it ran fine, I loved it, I bought it.

I didn't check Witcher 2, runs like retarded monkey and besides I hate it. Should've checked it? Probably. But can I? NOPE. Not because it's UNLEGALS. In my opinion pirating a game in any case works against me/gamers. I prefer to lose $20 today, than lose nerves and rage tommorow cause of DRMs/prices/whatever.


It's a bit like speed limits. If it says 50, you go 50. You don't check if 'something happens when i go 90'. And if you do and get caught, limit-raisers have another argument against all drivers.


TL;DR
Suck it up and take risks like a man or find another hobby.

Spoiler: case in point

 

[White-Death]

This question is why demos should return.

EC [http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/demo-daze] did an episode about Demos. In short, their Cost/Benefit ratio isn't worth it.

OT: No, not ok.

As already stated, there are several free sites that will tell you if your computer's specs can handle the game.
As for whether or not the game is functional, you should be relying on reviews. If they say a game's handling is shit, don't get the game.

Specs are a horrible way of judging how well a game will actually run. Sometimes meeting minimun specs will mean that you're able ro run it, but at a level too low to enjoy anything and often experience drops in fps when there's a lot of avtion on screen. I experienced this with BioShock. It was running fairly well with my just above minimum hardware, but it crashed the moment I met a turret. There's The Last Remnant which wouldn't even start (just got a blank screen) despite meeting requirements.

There are games that are horrible ports or have driver issues such as Rage which works poorlyndespite going far over recommended levels.

I also find it hilarious that GTA IV which has higher recommended specs than Saints Row 2 actually runs better on my computer.

You can't trust that specs will actually be helpful.

According to can you run it/box specs/others, I cannot even run Half life 2 on medium,yet here I am playing Arma II on medium with full resolution and ACE mod at 40 FPS.
For any game newer than 2008,I barely meet the minimum specs(the only reason I meet them is a 1gb 9800 gtx) yet I can play them fine at 30-40 FPS,mat the same frame rate and better quality than a console.


I pirate games which do not have demos to see if I can run it at above 30fps,anything below that is unplayable for me.If I hadn't pirated those games,they would be sitting in my steam library un-played forever.
OP,Go ahead and pirate it,It's not like a big ass lawyer guy is standing right behind you monitoring your every move.

 

[Yopaz]

Sometimes meeting minimun specs will mean that you're able ro run it, but at a level too low to enjoy anything and often experience drops in fps when there's a lot of avtion on screen.

Then, don't aim for minimum specs. Go for recommended/optimal specs.

According to them, my computer can run Fallout 3.
It cannot.

Do you know why your computer can't run the game?

Simply saying "my computer can't run game XYZ for some unknown reason, so piracy" is piss poor logic.

Captcha: hello sweetie ... Spoilers, Captcha. Spoilers!

Minimum specs are what the OP's friend got and sometimes that enough to enjoy the game.

Now why did you ignore the rest of my post? I mentioned example of a game that should run perfectly with specs well above the recommended, yet it runs like ass. Wouldn't that mean that specs can't always be trusted completely?

 

[TheEvilCheese]

I say yes, it's OK. Spec-sites are not a reliable source of knowledge in my experience and if it's too close to call I'd have no problem 'testing' it.

I would strive to do that by getting a friend who owns it to log into steam on my machine and download it, but if that was impossible it'd be OK.

However, if you were to play any more than the first of gameplay and then not pay for it that's plain theft.

I would almost liken it to trying on clothes in a store- of course this only applies if no demo is available.

 

[Zyst]

I'm gonna play on the Grey area here and say: If you do honestly intend to buy the game if it runs fine and you think you'll enjoy it (From Let's Plays, Trailers, etc...) not by playing the pirated game halfway through because at that point it'd be hard to just buy it. But yeah, pirating it to see if your system can run it (Aside from System reqs lab, which is great but not 100% reliable all the time [For example, one of my older laptops ran WoW just fine as it said but PvP was a lag-fest and pretty much unplayable]) I think it's fair to just run it as a mini-trial and see if works then go ahead and buy it. However as a glorious PC Gamer I also do feel like you should be way ahead of system reqs and just crush everything.

 

[Yopaz]

This question is why demos should return.

EC [http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/demo-daze] did an episode about Demos. In short, their Cost/Benefit ratio isn't worth it.

OT: No, not ok.

As already stated, there are several free sites that will tell you if your computer's specs can handle the game.
As for whether or not the game is functional, you should be relying on reviews. If they say a game's handling is shit, don't get the game.

Specs are a horrible way of judging how well a game will actually run. Sometimes meeting minimun specs will mean that you're able ro run it, but at a level too low to enjoy anything and often experience drops in fps when there's a lot of avtion on screen. I experienced this with BioShock. It was running fairly well with my just above minimum hardware, but it crashed the moment I met a turret. There's The Last Remnant which wouldn't even start (just got a blank screen) despite meeting requirements.

There are games that are horrible ports or have driver issues such as Rage which works poorlyndespite going far over recommended levels.

I also find it hilarious that GTA IV which has higher recommended specs than Saints Row 2 actually runs better on my computer.

You can't trust that specs will actually be helpful.

According to can you run it/box specs/others, I cannot even run Half life 2 on medium,yet here I am playing Arma II on medium with full resolution and ACE mod at 40 FPS.
For any game newer tha 2008,I barely meet the minimum specs(the only reason I meet them is a 1gb 9800 gtx) yet I can play them fine at 30-40 FPS,mat the same framerate and better quality than a console.
i do indeed pirate games which do not have demos to see if I can run it at above 30fps,anything below that is unplayable.If I hadn't pirated those games,they would be sitting in my steam library unplayed forever.
Go ahead and try payday pirated.

Uhm, not sure if you quoted the right post here... all I am saying is that specs don't really portray the full picture when it comes to stability. I bought Payday months ago, but I didn't really like it, my loss I guess.

 

[Entitled]

From my perspective it is never morally right to pirate a game. All of the justifications I have read about why it is acceptable to pirate a game are about personal convenience. Morals are not about making your life easier, they are about doing the right thing.

Piracy debates are not a moral issue, in the sense that one side claims that it's "moral" while the other side claims that it's immoral.

It's a debate about whether or not it should be a morral issue to begin with, where one side is claiming that it's immoral, while the other is claiming that it has nothing to do with morality, just practicality.

I'm yet to see any standing argument for why piracy is immoral to begin with. People are only bringing up variations of the same two, the argument from legality, and the argument from econmic necessity.

The latter obviouly doesn't apply in this case, when we are talking about people who are generally willing to spend their money in the gaming industry.

The former can be either obviously ridiculous, "Piracy is immoral because the glorious USA legal system says so", or hidden as a concern for Artist Rights (that only stretch as far as the legal system happens to guarantee them).

 

[Kargathia]

Why do you ask? You already know the legal answer (no), and the recurring flamefests might have hinted already at the controversy of this topic when it comes to the moral and ethical sides of the dilemma.

Instead, just ask yourself: "am I going to be racked with unbearable, sleep-deprivating guilt after pirating this game to try it out?". If no, go right ahead.

 

[madwarper]

Minimum specs are what the OP's friend got HAS and sometimes that IS enough to enjoy the game.

I'd question whether or not the computer this "friend" only has the bare minimum specs.
I'm not him. I'm not the OP. The point remains the same, if the minimum isn't good enough, aim higher.

Now why did you ignore the rest of my post? I mentioned example of a game that should run perfectly with specs well above the recommended, yet it runs like ass. Wouldn't that mean that specs can't always be trusted completely?

I ignored it because it lacks specific details to be relevant.

You say your computer "runs like ass", do you know why?

Also, if you can't be bothered to learn about PC specs and hardware, just get a console.

 

[w9496]

Nope. Why would you buy a game after you pirate it when you have the game sitting right there? There is no reason to buy it after you have the full game.

 

[johnnnny guitar]

IMO I think pirating is fine for in almost any situation really is it legal no but I don't get my panties in a twist like some people when they find out that someone pirates games(I don't do it cause I like owning the game).

There is one developers games I think shouldn't be pirated unless to test your gaming rig and that is CDprojekt games because they do so much to push DRM free games and services.

But in the end there will always be people that pirate things so getting mad at that is like getting mad at a dog cause it shits on the carpet, the dog knows it shouldn't but the dog shit there cause it's easier.

 

[Yopaz]

Minimum specs are what the OP's friend got HAS and sometimes that IS enough to enjoy the game.

I'd question whether or not the computer this "friend" only has the bare minimum specs.
I'm not him. I'm not the OP. The point remains the same, if the minimum isn't good enough, aim higher.

Now why did you ignore the rest of my post? I mentioned example of a game that should run perfectly with specs well above the recommended, yet it runs like ass. Wouldn't that mean that specs can't always be trusted completely?

I ignored it because it lacks specific details to be relevant.

You say your computer "runs like ass", do you know why?

Also, if you can't be bothered to learn about PC specs and hardware, just get a console.

You didn't read my original response to you at all, did you? I didn't say my computer runs like ass, I did in fact say I was way over recommended specs, I was talking about a game called RAGE which has been troubled with terrible driver support which makes it run like ass. They released several fixes and driver updates and it ended up running OK even on great computers. You might still go around saying that only checking specs is enough, but the truth of it is that there's so much more to it. No you say that I didn't include any specific details, how is terrible driver support not specific? Keep ignoring what you can't explain. I'm done discussing this.

 

[Arakasi]

If you play all the way through on the pirate version, you should probably buy it.
If you play for about 1min-1hr and decide you don't like it, it's okay not to buy it in my books.