Poll: Dragon Age 2 was it that bad?

[Trig0n]

I felt it was rather good actually. It had it's shinign moments and the combat was an upgrade from the first game in my opinion, however the repetitive dungeons got on my nerves a bit.

Quest log: Now go into that slaver den and rescue those folks.
Me: Wasn't this a spider nest or something last time I was here?
Quest log: Shut it and kill the slavers.

 

[kasperbbs]

It wasnt a bad game but i expected more. I think most people did and thats why it received so many negative comments. With all its bugs and repetitive environments it was still a lot better than most rpgs that i have played.

 

[IkeGreil29]

SNIP

You miss (I am guessing by your username, I apologize in advance just in case) are awesome at describing how good it was.

 

[NickCaligo42]

DA2 is terrible, as an RPG, as an action game. Haven't played much Dragon Age, can't call myself much of a fan, but DA2 is probably one of the worst, least enjoyable, sloppiest games I've ever played.

 

[Therumancer]

I personally felt it was a bastardized insult to the original game. The story was bad and the narrative is schizophrenic at best. The combat was dull and repetitive. The only thing i kind of liked was naming the main character Mike but the gag got old rather quickly.

Well, a big part of the problem with it was that it was underwhelming in comparison to the first game. Not only did you have little choice over the creation of your character, no racial choice, or multiple origins, but the game constantly recycled the same enviroments. The combat was a massive joke, dumbed down to a pathetic brawler, despite all comments about tactics in the loading screens and such you pretty much had waves of guys spawning on you or dropping down from the sky/rooftops in a way that it wasn't even practical to do things like set formations, keep mages clear, and other things, nor was it paticularly nessicary. Given the way the bad guys spawned any kind of fight preparation was impossible as well, you can be just walking along, hit an empty room or hallway and suddenly have a mini-boss spider the size of an elephant literally appear on top of you.

I will say that part of the harsh reception it's gotten is not just that the game was simply put junky, but because of the way Bioware treated the fan base. If you were following the development of the game, you would know that Bioware ASKED the fan base if having a single hero called Hawke who would be predetermined as human with a predetermined backround (ie no origin selection) was okay with the fan base. Bioware received an overwhelmingly negative response to that query, with the best responses generally being in the "we trust Bioware" catagory. Bioware turned around and pretty much said that the idea had an overwhelmingly positive response, and did things that way, leading a lot of people to take a "well, why bother to ask the fans if your going to ignore them and do whatever you want anyway?". There as a lot of bad blood over this before the game ever came out, and I think a lot of fanboys miss the point that it's not just the desician itself but the way it was handled and the entire game of asking the fan base, and then lying about the response received.

EA/Bioware trying to pump up the metascore ratings when they game was being badly reviewed by users, as opposed to the pro-reviewers they pay off also didn't help matters, even if only one guy was caught, that ensured the already bitter taste in people's mouthes just got worse.

The bottom line is that the game itself was a badly designed reck, and the company's own actions upset a lot of their fans in relation to the game. Perhaps it would have been taken as simply a sub-par effort from Bioware (not every game can be a winner, and frankly Bioware DOES have a lot on it's plate, no longer focusing like a laser on one product at a time) had it not been for their behavior.

Truthfully I will say that right now Bioware is rapidly on it's way to becoming a publisher reviled with the general hatred only reserved for publishers. I say this because while they have a vocal army of fanboys still, a lot of things they are doing, or connected to, are hardly receiving a positive response. Some pretty big cracks are forming in their relationship with the consumer base. A fairly recent example would be how at E3 the guy doing the "Old Republic Online" gameplay demo/podcast made comments about how they "planned to give the release date, but decided it would be funnier not to", intended jokingly or not that comment in connection with what a lot of people see as chain jerking (and saw even more so as chain jerking before the recent pre-orders) irritated a lot of people due to the fact that even as a joke it does tend to show a certain degree of contempt. "Contempt for the fans" is one thing when your being an exagerratedly acidic game critic with no direct involvement in the industry like Yahtzee, it's a little differant in cases like this.

See, I see Bioware rapidly becoming a company where it's going to be a situation where people loathe the company, but like the games... at least for a while. As time goes on I think they are becoming detached from the core audience that made them, and it's going to be one of those companies where eventually people will talk about them in terms of a group of arrogant schmucks who used to be good. It's not too late to reverse the path of course, it's just something to consider. The rabid fanboys out there right now who weren't irritated by things like the Hawke incident, or the E3 comments might not see it, but that will probably last until Bioware does something that they don't like, then a lot of these previous incidents they don't care about will tend to click. When finally noticed by fans, even a few at a time, a pattern of behavior can be difficult for a company to change or redeem themselves from, and when hostility builds gradually it becomes easy to find yourself one day wondering "wow, when did that minority of people suddenly become the overwhelming majority".

"Dragon Age 2" as a game and developer behavior kind of represents a sort of signpost of what Bioware is in danger of becoming.

 

[AlwaystheUnlucky]

The only thing i kind of liked was naming the main character Mike but the gag got old rather quickly.

...I see what you did there. Heh heh. Mike Hawke.

OT: I personally enjoyed it. I felt the schizophrenic approach was justified actually, knowing how much of an unreliable narrator Varric is. The characterization was great, and everything made sense in context.

 

[Sonic Doctor]

Snip

Or play Awakening. Both are options.

I'll be honest, playing 1 makes me not want to play the other. You know how playing some games will make you think "I'm over this now, I want something similar though." eg. Nothing much left to achieve in Saints Row series, why not play GTA: San Andreas?
Getting tired of grinding in Pokemon White, go back and visit ol' Charmander again.

One thing that stands me a part from the people that bash Dragon Age 2 is that I don't entirely, if at all, judge a game in a series based on what the other one was like.

If I had been like those people, I would have canceled my pre-order for DA2, because I bought and started playing Origins to get ready for DA2, but stopped. I found it interesting in some ways, but I just couldn't continue because the gameplay was so slow, grating, and most times boring. But, I didn't cancel my pre-order because I had faith that BioWare might fix those problems in DA2 and from what I saw of previews, it looked like they had. Then when I got my hands on my pre-order copy, I found my thoughts were right.

I thoroughly enjoyed DA2. The story was a nice flowing stream of water that occasionally changed direction, going around a bend back where it came and then changing back and going on course.

The story of DA: Origins is a slow dripping broken bathroom faucet. You turn the knob and from reason nothing comes out. Then when you try and do something and try to make it work properly, you turn the knob and it goes crazy, spurting water in every direction and getting you all wet and miserable, and then it slows and goes to a slow occasional drop.

If anything DA2 has made me want to suffer through DA: Origins and all the DLC, so that I can understand DA2 more, and things that might come up in the third one to come.

 

[Catie Caraco]

SNIP

You miss (I am guessing by your username, I apologize in advance just in case) are awesome at describing how good it was.

lol you're right, I am a she. Thank you very much for the complement. It made me smile. ^_^

 

[Arisato-kun]

It wasn't Bioware's best or anything but it's still one of the better games I've played. It really didn't deserve all the shit it was getting. My only real issue was the overuse of environments but with enough small tweaks they could've even got away with that.

Besides for all the mediocre components that are in the game the character of The Arishok makes up for absolutely all of it.

 

[axeman157]

They destroyed the RPG element with more of a beat-em up element.

 

[Xanthious]

I think you are doing a massive disservice to shit by comparing it to Dragon Age 2. Shit deserves far better than that.

I guess though if you need something AWESOME to happen every time you press a button (Button Awesome! Button Awesome!) and the idea of "Squee'ing" over how cute the elf is is your cup of tea and you wear a helmet throughout your daily activities, like eating breakfast, then hell maybe Dragon Age 2 could be considered enjoyable. Hell you can just sit around all nice and safe in your helmet squee'ing til you can't squee anymore and watching a parade of awesome happen everytime you press a button . . . . right up until you get distracted by pudding, or something shiny like keys or marbles.

 

[Happy Sock Puppet]

I played the 360 version:

Awkward, segmented storyline.

The glitches, exploits and bugs that any amount of playtesting would have discovered.

The the the the the the the the the the the the the the repeated repeated repeated repeated repeated repeated repeated repeated repeated repeated repeated repeated repeated environments environments environments environments environments environments environments environments environments.

 

[theevilgenius60]

I liked it. The thing that would have made it better is just a name. Don't call that Dragon Age 2, all that leads to is disappointment that it wasn't as great as origins and awakening. Call it something like The Rise of Hawke: an adventure in the Dragon Age universe,or something like that. It just didn't feel as urgent as origins or even awakening. Literally, all it was about was Hawke going from no name scrub to bad ass Viscount. If they would have been more open about that in the title, then I believe there wouldn't be as much complaining about it.

 

[Sonic Doctor]

Snip

The problem is that too many gamers these days have the mentality that the developers should be making the games exactly how they want them, that the developer shouldn't think about what other people might want, or even what the developer wants to create.

If BioWare has a problem it is that they both want to make the game they want to make and please all the rabid foaming at the mouth fans (not an exaggeration as seen from the seriously unfair user reviews on Metcritic) at the same time.

They obviously wanted to do something different in the Dragon Age universe, to tell a different story in a different way. Their mistake was to ask fans what they what in another Dragon Age game, because with how fans usually are, they are unrefined and unmoving. The majority of them will blurt out something to the effect, "Ugh, more Origins, more Origins, we like Warden. Wooo, my Elf was awesome!! Dwarfs rock!!! What weirdo wants to play as a human." Truthfully, most fans don't want something that is new and refreshing, and even if certain things are broken in a game and in the past they use to complain about it, once the developer changes the game and creates a fresh story and fixes the problems of the previous game, the fans go all, "Everything from the last game was fine." And despite that BioWare for the most part work incredibly hard to bring something new and fresh, the "fans" get all angry because BioWare didn't make a game exactly like the first one, so they say, "BioWare was lazy".

The only problem in the game was the dungeons, and that wasn't because BioWare was lazy, that was because of EA rushing development. Besides not making a the sequel exactly like the first, isn't being lazy. They made something new, fixed broken mechanics, worked in much better graphics, and didn't create the same old story type from Origins. That is working one's ass off, not being lazy.

Heck, I don't blame them for trying to pump their score. 95% of the flack they got from user reviews was unwarranted and uncalled for. I thought the game was at least a 9 out of 10 and I was going to give it a 9 on Metacritic, but when I saw how crazy people were acting, I gave it a 10 to do my part to help BioWare.

But back to what I was saying, BioWare needs to forget fans. They need to just create the games they want to create, to tell the stories they want to tell.

This whole fans vote on what femshep should look like is stupid. BioWare should just create one the team agrees on, and when the time comes in game, the player will choose what their femshep will look like.

I've done a good bit of story writing, and if I ever became an author of a best selling series and there was some kind of cult following for a character and people loved him and wanted him to live throughout the whole series, but I originally planned to violently kill him off, I would kill him off, I'd probably be more violent with the death to spite the cult following, because that is how I planned the story to go.

BioWare's plan wasn't for an entirely open story like Origins, the wanted to tell the story of a certain human. The difference comes from what you make him look like, if he/she is a mage, warrior, or rogue, and what the personality is like, nice, a wise cracking neutral, or forceful and mean person. An RPG like Dragon Age, really doesn't need 1 million character choices and the village well too be great. It is about the story BioWare wants to tell. If BioWare wants to start narrowing the choices on what can happen, that just means they have a plan that makes it so that only a few choices will work.

--------

To BioWare, forget the fan pleasing. Ignore the forums except for tech problems, and make the games you want to make. Some people will like them, some love, some indifferent, some hate. Haters don't mean you did something wrong, it just means you did something they didn't like. Pay attention to the people that still like what you make and the new fans, and when you do something that makes them mad, keep going and stick with the people that still like what you are doing and again the new comers.

Make what you want to create BioWare, I support you, Dragon Age 2 was awesome.

 

[bob-2000]

I really enjoyed it. Yes, it was most certainly rushed out by EA, but the characters were very well-written, and the storyline was quite refreshing.

 

[trooper6]

I thought it was an excellent game and an excellent addition to the Dragon Age Universe. I enjoyed it immensely. Yeah, sure...there was map reuse, due to a too short development time. But I thought the game was wonderful.

 

[Sonic Doctor]

I liked it. The thing that would have made it better is just a name. Don't call that Dragon Age 2, all that leads to is disappointment that it wasn't as great as origins and awakening. Call it something like The Rise of Hawke: an adventure in the Dragon Age universe,or something like that. It just didn't feel as urgent as origins or even awakening. Literally, all it was about was Hawke going from no name scrub to bad ass Viscount. If they would have been more open about that in the title, then I believe there wouldn't be as much complaining about it.

Or no name to just the Champion, I sided with the Mages, so I didn't take the throne.

They could have called it:

Dragon Age: Champion of Kirkwall

DA: The Silly Templar Clown Cart O'Evil

DA: The Zany Mage Rebellion.

DA: Ooooh! Look! Qunari!

DA: Hawke and the Deep Roads of Doom

DA: Varric's Tale.

DA: The Story of Bianca

 

[johnnnny guitar]

Oh my god people stop making threads about this every 2 weeks it makes me nerd rage
Was it as good as dragon age origins no
Was it a rushed cash in yes
Was it a bad game no just below average Bioware games (for DA:O fans yes it was a disappointment)

 

[Virgilthepagan]

I enjoyed it.

I accept all of your criticisms, but I still enjoyed it.

I just wish they had spent an extra, say, 6 months on it. To make a couple of extra dungeon maps, to make the story flow a little better, to make the combat, especially the CCCs (which were excellent in theory) a little more interesting. It is like the idea of a good game, squeezed through the generic game making machine of EA. I loved the feeling of being a city's hero, making his own way and carving a name out for himself in his little corner of the world. No enormous demons, no world threatening enemy. One man, his companions and a city to fight for.

It pales in comparison to the first, but I thought it was a solid game I have enjoyed twice through.

My captcha is dollars to donuts, which I guess is a fairly good (if abstract) metaphor for Dragon Age's progression...

Eh. This pretty much sums me up, my one sad point was realizing that Anders' character had been completely rewritten.

 

[keosegg]

So, these are my thoughts on Dragon Age 2:

To start with, the gameplay. I believe the gameplay in DA2 is a big step forward from DAO. In Origins, your characters felt so bloody clunky, they felt like tabletop miniatures being moved around, rather than seasoned warriors engaging vicious eldritch abominations in a fight to the death. It just irritated me to no end when my characters would shuffle around the enemy, or struggle to push past an ally that was in the way as they get into backstabbing range. In addition to that, the way the characters used their weapons felt clunky and uninspired. The dual wielding rogues felt no swifter than your greatsword wielding warrior. The way the warriors use their weapons is just so *meh*, there's no flare. The mages, however were OK, I suppose, nothing to write home about.

Compare DA2. No shuffling, no struggling to push past an ally as they get into position. When my characters fight, the feel like warriors, rather than tabletop miniatures shuffling around. Additionally, the way the characters use their weapons has improved. The dual wielding rogues feel swift and graceful. There's so much more flare in the warriors now, they leap when using mighty blow and the shield bash ability violates a few laws of aerodynamics when used. The mages also feel less squishy, especially when they engage their foes in close combat (that's not to say they aren't squishy, they are, very much so).

The leveling system in DA2 is also improved. Your abilities aren't tied to your stats, so you don't have to wait until you meet the prerequisite stat mark, which took a long time in Origins due to how few stat points were given when leveling up. Skills trees are no longer linear, so you don't have to waste skill points buying useless abilities. Additionally, I must say the Reaver specialisation has been greatly improved. I've always loved the idea behind the Reaver, but due to the way it was implemented in Origins, I just didn't use it. Now that it has been improved, this is no longer the case. No longer is Blood Frenzy a sustained ability, rather it's a passive ability. Devour targets a single enemy, rather than affecting corpses only. The other specialisations aren't anything to write home about (though I am rather saddened that they got rid of the Arcane Warrior specialisation).

Now, I must say that the decision to give Hawke a name and a voice was the right choice. The Warden in Origins felt like a big mass of inconsequential nothingness, he never reacted to anything, EVER (aside from the death of Ser Jory and killing the Archdemon). He ended up feeling like a McGuffin, or a Chekhov's gun, a plot device rather than a character.

Hawke, on the other hand, feels like a character. He reacts to things, he cocks an eyebrow when something puzzles him, he facepalms when something stupid happens and his voice reflects the mood he's in. All of this comes together and makes Hawke feel like a proper character. This, however, has the added result of narrowing down your conversation options to about three. I don't mind it however, I would much rather have limited choice and a proper character as my player character than unlimited choice and a plot device as my player character. I should probably point out that my opinion stems from the fact that I don't like "blank slate" characters.

As for the voice actors chosen for Hawke, I must say, Jo Wyatt, the voice of, Lady Hawke has the better voice actor, her husky voice is heaven to the ears...

*ahem*

Additionally, Jo Wyatt, can emote better then Male Hawke's Nicholas Boulton. An example would be where Hawke's mother goes missing, Lady Hawke genuinely sounded utterly terrified, whereas Male Hawke, not so much. However, that's not to say Nicholas Boulton is a bad VA, he's a brilliant VA, it's just Jo Wyatt is better. However, I must say, the way Nick Boulton channels Brian Blessed during battle makes the fights so much more enjoyable "FOLLOW MY LEAD!", "NEED MANA!".

As for the supporting characters, they're all great in their own special way. It would take too long for me to describe them all. However, one thing ticks me off greatly.

Anders.

In Awakenings he was this snarky, womanising, laid back sort of fellow, a real great guy. Come DA2 he's this whiny, pathetic, little... thing, I half expect him to bring out the Linkin Park any moment. I absolutely hate the change Anders went through. Though I have to admit, all my hate stems from the impotent nerd rage that arose when the writers took Anders in a direction that I didn't like, and I have to (grudgingly) admit there's a strong justification storywise.

I found the storyline very refreshing, it was no longer about a hero saving the world but rather about some guy and the stuff he gets caught up in. It's a more personalised. Some people say the storyline is too segmented, I believe it adds to the story. A real life doesn't have an overarching theme, or a main conflict, or a main villain. A real life is a series of random events that have no relation to one another.

To be honest, I personally think DA2 is better than Origins, it improves everything Origins had, and adds a little more to the mix.