Poll: East vs. West: RPGs

[WillSimplyBe]

I like plenty of RPGs... I'd vote both, but I guess I cant do that.
Havent found many very good RPGs lately though, but I started with Jrpgs before anything else, so i guess I'd have to say that.

Anyway, I dont know if you can simply put "MMO" into western RPG. Even though you named WoW, you moved an entire genre, which, quite frankly has hundreds more games from Japan or Korea compared to the western ones... Well, just a thought.

 

[Undead Dragon King]

...KOTOR, anyone?

 

[New Troll]

Anyway, I dont know if you can simply put "MMO" into western RPG. Even though you named WoW, you moved an entire genre, which, quite frankly has hundreds more games from Japan or Korea compared to the western ones... Well, just a thought.

When I wrote WoW I wasn't even really thinking about this. Mainly I was just having a hard time thinking of good Western RPGs, and though I was trying to avoid split-genre games, that's where a majority of Western games breed.

In my opinion, the West has won over the MMO genre though. It started with Ultima On-line, went even further with Everquest, and now completely dominates with WoW. And pretty much every other easily recognizable MMO is also from Western descent, except maybe the dreadfully aweful Final Fantasy On-line. Hehe, have tried my hardest to stay unbiased per particular titles in this hread, but I'm sorry, that game sucks. But so does Star Wars Galaxies, so there! -smiles

 

[Aries_Split]

The east have got Chrono Trigger.

The west have Fallout series, Baldur's Gate2, Planescape, VTM:Bloodlines and Ultima7.

west then.

Wrong. We have fallout 1 and 2.
Not that ultra brown hyper a.d.d jason bourne bullshit.

...KOTOR, anyone?

I'm thinking more along the lines of Bloodlines, but I guess Kotor works. Either way we get Neverwinter Nights 2 Mask of the betrayer so we win.

 

[Abedeus]

Dungeon seige follows that as it rolls virtuale dice every time you go to hit something, so does WoW.

No, they don't. They have % chances to hit or randomly (like 400-1000 damage, it takes a random number each time). You might as well say Diablo 2 uses dices...

Infact the only real Role play game that still exists is the current edition of Dungoens and dragons. the term Rpg was taken by most fantasy adventure games where "Role" had the meaning of taking the role of some unlucky person who had to kill lots of other people and stuff and play the game.

Now let us all forget Baldur's Gates, Icewind Dales, Neverwinter Nights games, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Temple of the Elemental Evil, KotORs and few other games that have more or less adapted DnD to PC gaming.

But the termbased system from DnD was taken on better by the Jrpgs.

That's "turn-based" system. And it wasn't taken better by the jRPGs, because they usually don't allow tactics. Do you have flanking in jRPGs? Distance? Can their mages take Heavy Armor and use Still Spell to negate the armor penalties? Nope. Also, they never use dices, again.

 

[JediMB]

Again, no. There are no other options and if you just can't or refuse to make up your mind, that's fine also. Just don't. But feel free to add any progressive crit to the thread. I've really enjoyed reading people's views, even a lot of the retarded ones who obviously haven't a clue.

But I don't want to partake in actual discussion unless I've read through the whole thread, and I just don't feel like doing that right now. >_>

I've been playing RPGs for about 25 years now. And I've played many, many different sorts. The very first RPG I played on machine was A Fairy Tale Adventure on Commodore 64. It was a western RPG, open-worlded, action-RPG. And it opened a door. A very wide door.

Well, sure...

My first RPG was... dun dun dun... Final Fantasy VII. Since then I've played various kinds of digital RPGs, from both the East and the West, as well as some pen-and-paper stuff.

On the one hand, I enjoy the increased freedom that's usually present in western RPGs, but at the same time that freedom also tends to result in a loss of direction, and I often find myself lacking motivation to go on. I think both BioWare's KOTOR/Mass Effect and the now-classic Fallout games found a good balance, however.

With JRPGS, the games tend to rise or fall on their battle systems and static script. I like to fight in these games, so if the battle system isn't interesting I'm not likely to want to continue playing. Final Fantasy X-2 is an example of a game where I loved the battle system so much that I fell in love with the game despite the shortcomings that many others complain about. Meanwhile, Final Fantasy XII, which started with some good ideas, ended up falling short in both previously mentioned departments.

On a related, but rather random, note... I wish my Dreamcast hadn't broken down, so I could've finished Skies of Arcadia.

 

[richard99th]

depends really i love oblivion fallout and diablo 2, but i also like ff tactics advance 1 and 2 golden sun 1 and 2. so i guess i prefer my jrpgs to be hand held while my wrpgs to be on a console or pc.

 

[Balraw]

If there was an option for both I would choose that.

However as there isn't I will choose JRPG's for the simple reason that Final Fantasy introduced me to the RPG genre and hooked me into this style of gaming.

 

[NeutralDrow]

That's "turn-based" system. And it wasn't taken better by the jRPGs, because they usually don't allow tactics. Do you have flanking in jRPGs? Distance? Can their mages take Heavy Armor and use Still Spell to negate the armor penalties? Nope. Also, they never use dices, again.

Oh, for the love of Bob, <url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSWdlV9-gWk&feature=related>YES!

*calms down*

Sorry about that.

 

[Abedeus]

That's "turn-based" system. And it wasn't taken better by the jRPGs, because they usually don't allow tactics. Do you have flanking in jRPGs? Distance? Can their mages take Heavy Armor and use Still Spell to negate the armor penalties? Nope. Also, they never use dices, again.

Oh, for the love of Bob, <url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSWdlV9-gWk&feature=related>YES!

*calms down*

Sorry about that.

That is only one jRPG.

And there's little tactic, from what I've noticed... While it appears to be "advanced", after one movie I can see the pattern.

1. Set squishies behind the melee.
2. Set melee to whail on the enemy.
3. Rez/heal/buff him.
4. Nuke enemy.

That's basically what a MMO does. And that's hardly a tactic, more like common sense.

 

[PedroSteckecilo]

While I have a reputation here as an ardent JRPG fanatic, I really, honestly and truly, love ALL WELL MADE RPG's (well, all that aren't MMO's) Western or Eastern, Turn based or real time.

I have a soft spot in my heart for a well made, Turn Based JRPG, but I'll be damned if I didn't consider Baldurs Gate 2 one of the finest examples of a Roleplaying Game ever coded.

The only games I really have a hate on for are Golden Sun, Tales of Symphonia and (sort of) the Diablo Series.

 

[NeutralDrow]

That's "turn-based" system. And it wasn't taken better by the jRPGs, because they usually don't allow tactics. Do you have flanking in jRPGs? Distance? Can their mages take Heavy Armor and use Still Spell to negate the armor penalties? Nope. Also, they never use dices, again.

Oh, for the love of Bob, <url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSWdlV9-gWk&feature=related>YES!

*calms down*

Sorry about that.

That is only one jRPG.

And there's little tactic, from what I've noticed... While it appears to be "advanced", after one movie I can see the pattern.

1. Set squishies behind the melee.
2. Set melee to whail on the enemy.
3. Rez/heal/buff him.
4. Nuke enemy.

That's basically what a MMO does. And that's hardly a tactic, more like common sense.

Actually, it's one example of eight or ten in the same series that have a real-time combat system. I could have showed <url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4z53b8HTHds>this one, instead.

They were using flanking, distance, and armor-buffing. Everything you laid out, outside the specific context of a pen&paper RPG. Besides...common sense? What do you think "tactics" are?

 

[DerpyDerpyDerp]

I have always been more turn based oriented. So JRPG's it is.

However, I love both sides very much and my library of games is spread pretty much equally between them.

 

[Abedeus]

That's "turn-based" system. And it wasn't taken better by the jRPGs, because they usually don't allow tactics. Do you have flanking in jRPGs? Distance? Can their mages take Heavy Armor and use Still Spell to negate the armor penalties? Nope. Also, they never use dices, again.

Oh, for the love of Bob, <url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSWdlV9-gWk&feature=related>YES!

*calms down*

Sorry about that.

That is only one jRPG.

And there's little tactic, from what I've noticed... While it appears to be "advanced", after one movie I can see the pattern.

1. Set squishies behind the melee.
2. Set melee to whail on the enemy.
3. Rez/heal/buff him.
4. Nuke enemy.

That's basically what a MMO does. And that's hardly a tactic, more like common sense.

Actually, it's one example of eight or ten in the same series that have a real-time combat system. I could have showed <url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4z53b8HTHds>this one, instead.

They were using flanking, distance, and armor-buffing. Everything you laid out, outside the specific context of a pen&paper RPG. Besides...common sense? What do you think "tactics" are?

Flanking doesn't mean two characters next to an enemy. It means that if two characters are flanking an enemy, one that is behind an enemy gets a bonus of some sort (like in real life). Distance - shots from 50 meters are just as effective as point-blank shots. No difference in accuracity or power. And armor-buffing... I wasn't refering to that.

Can a Standard jRPG Mage/Wizard use a Heavy Armor reserved for a Warrior? No. No matter what you do, a wizard can't go melee with Warrior's armor.

Oh, and let's not forget that usually in an jRPG you can't customize a character more than progress. It means that if the game starts with main character as a warrior, you can't play anything BUT warrior. Sure you get other characters, but you can't customize them. You can't start as a mage, then add a warrior ally.

In Western RPGs, however, you get to choose the protagonist. From Diablo 2 to Mass Effect, you can affect almost every aspect of the character, look (oh, right - jRPG characters look almost the same, same hair, clothes and have same slapstick personalities).

Sorry, I just can't "get into" the game if it's another Generic jRPG with Generic Unmemorable Characters and Generic Plot nr. 51521. Especially if it's just really hard to indentify with the main character.

 

[New Troll]

I think I can identify a lot more with Cloud than I can The Lone Wanderer, but I still don't care for FF past IV and love FO3. To each thier own, doesn't make either right or wrong, just maybe right or wrong for you.

Personally, I think I prefer party RPGs, letting each person in the group take on a different persona of my choosing, between versions of myself or friends and loved-ones, sometimes even secret desires.

Heh, thinking about it, I also generally play female characters. Just prefer to look at a more well-shaped backside I guess.

On a side note, these would be more reasons to choose West over East. Hmmm... choices, choices.

 

[Nmil-ek]

Im sorta 50/50 on the subject on one hand jrpgs really got me into the whole rpg thing yes it was Final Fantasy VII, on the otherhand you could argue JRPGs are very simmilar and they are but so are western rpgs really. Ohh moral choice system that effects the gameworld havent seen that done befo.. oh sorry.

Both genres have brought some truly amazing games to light, valkyriew profile, chrono cross, final fantasy, suikoden, baldurs gate, kotor, nwn, fallout.

Its really easy to say look at all those bad jrpgs and jump on a bandwagon or quote yahtzee but I could do the same to western rpgs (and I love both) for every bad anime copy paste jrpg theres a western just as bad (see Ascencion the the Throne ugh...)

 

[Enosh_]

They're not RPGs, theyre MMORPGs, the MMO makes it a differant game. No-one would really ever compare World of Warcraft to say... Mass Effect. Or Final Fantasy XI to any normal JRPG. Unless it was unfavourably for the Single-player game. MMOs except on the pure gameplay aspect lack just about everything that makes an RPG and RPG, unless you play on a "Roleplaying Server" and even those suck most of the time. Its part of the reason I look down on JRPGs as well, theres character development in pure gameplay terms, but little to no development on the part of the player "Roleplaying" the character, theres more development for JRPGs but the player has pretty limited control over this at best*. Roleplaying games seem to have lost the "Roleplaying". MMORPGs are all "Crunch" with little "Fluff".

so you yourself admited that there is RP (but left up to the player if he wants to explore that part (btw: most MMOs have some preaty good story quest and a lot of fluff to them)) in MMORPGS but it still somehow isn't a rpg beacose you say so... am i the only one having a problem with that?

if were talking story usaly jrpgs but gameplay wise (which is waht matters) i would be western so that's what im going with

never understood that one, but it is so often mentioned by JRPG fans, like some sort of last line of defence, since in the gameplay and actualy role playing deparment they usualy already fail preaty hard. I know rating a story is mostly a subjective thing, but so far I had much more out of the story of say Mass Effect (which does an extreamly good job of establishing an entire galaxy and all the stuff going on in it) and Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines (well helps to know V:TM to understand that one) than out of the story of any JRPG, there is also a strong overuse of cliche characters in JRPGs, moe so than in western rpgs, kotor also established a preaty big part of the star wars EU, with Revan beacoming one of the most important and favorite characters in the SW canon along with Vader and Thrawn

 

[Taniquel]

While I play both hemispheres, I have to vote for Western RPGs.

I find that the learning curve for the JRPGs are too steep in the beginning and the amount of grinding is more than I am prepared to do to advance the story. On the other hand, Westerns usually have a much less in-depth story (comparatively) and are shorter, making them feel unfinished.

I think that there is not one that is "better" than the other. Both styles have good and bad points that are either good or bad depending on who you are.

 

[short_name111]

hmmm. good poll. RPGS are fun, but there are alot of different kinds. JRPGS, imo, just suck. i can see how some people would like it, but having just one character to focus on is the best.

 

[Darkintent]

Obilvion ftw