Poll: Fake Geek Girl Meme
- Thread starter Hollyday
- Start date
They look like...normal people. Well, some would have a piece of clothing/jewellery or maybe a tattoo of something like, say, a video game character or symbol but they don't wear thick rimmed glasses (well, most at least) and literally write "nerd" on themselves.Hollyday said:
I'm doing a computer science course - there are some girls in it, too: one is (was, actually, she finished uni) head of the video games club, three others are actually doing a course in video games. And the rest are just generally into computers and so on. You can't really tell that from their looks, though. At most, you can say they aren't doing politics and you could be able to guess that they are doing compsci but you'd really need more than just visual data for that.
And as for people in the RPG club we have, they look remarkably like other normal people. In fact, you'd be hard pressed to distinguish them. Sure a couple have some nerdy tattoos, but it's kind of hard to see them immediately; one dresses in black goth clothes, but I guess that's not really a "nerd" dress code; some have clothes with, say, "[picture of a 20 sided die showing 20] that's how I roll" and similar; the rest you can't pick out in a crowd. Well, unless you see them in their LARP gear, I guess.
So yeah, around here people don't really feel the need to advertise how much of a nerd they are by conforming to a stereotype.
Erm, I never criticised her interests. She can do whatever she damn well pleases her. However, reinforcing a stupid stereotype that doesn't hold water is not really to my liking. To me it seems like somebody smeared their face with charcoal, grabbed a watermelon and some grape juice with the intention "See, blacks are just like us". Yeah, I don't think nerds have, or even need, a "dress code" or some kind of "uniform".Hollyday said:
This right here is the best answer I can think of. It's inequality, but not because people attack girls. It's inequality because creepy pathetic nerds will fall head over heels for a girl so long as she even acknowledges his geekier interests. So people get mad and call the others out with "Oh please if she didn't have breasts you'd be berating the hell out of her." which lead to the stereotype of girls who have a very small interest in comics or games etc. and the creeps who think they're super special.dogstile said:First off, i'll start by saying that I absolutely loved the set of images trying to "take back" the fake geek girl. Completely missing the point of the meme. Its glorious.Hollyday said:
Of course there is a male equivalent. You just don't see them as often because when a guy does it, usually he'll get quickly knocked down a peg and leave it alone. Nobody is going to defend the fake geek guy, he's a guy, he'll get over it.
When it happens to a girl trying to "geek out" for acceptance (which, if you're changing yourself for acceptance, i'm not going to like you anyway) you're going to get a white knight defending her, because hey, she's a girl trying to be geeky and girls totally need to be protected and they can't stand on their own two feet, right guys? (Copious amounts of sarcasm)
Because geek girls were trying to get recognition for being "geeky" and guys who fell for it made a big deal out of the fact that she's a geek (I still have friends who say the phrase "she plays games, she's a keeper") people very quickly got annoyed that it was being held up as something special. "Why the hell is it special when she gets geeky?" "Why is it not special that i've spent years of my life reading comics and playing wargames?" "She's got boobs, that's the only reason people are paying attention to her".
In other words, there is a male equivalent, but nobody seems to care because you wouldn't defend a guy, no siree.
When my father was in high school the term "nerd" or "geek" was a bad thing. You wanted to avoid that label at almost any cost, because it meant constant harassment by pretty much everyone except the other people who had been labeled a nerd. Nerds were hated for no good reason. The thing you must understand is that this was not just teasing and name calling. It was horrible, soul crushing hatred and everyone in the entire world, except for the few other outcasts who were in the same boat as you, was your enemy and the harassment was constant. It was bad enough that it did permanent damage to many, their entire outlook on life was changed forever. Needless to say, no girl would date a nerd, no one would hang out with nerds, etc. They simply could not risk being labeled a nerd themselves.Hollyday said:Yes, yes, another F&*£@%?#^ thread about gender! Turn away now for the sake of your own sanity.
I read an article on The Mary Sue this morning which made me wonder...
http://www.themarysue.com/geek-girl-meme/#0
The main idea boils down to this: "...the persisting idea that tells people it's ok to nastily call women out for not being 'authentically geeky' enough. It's basically the idea that you can use that old middle school tactic of calling people 'posers' because they don't adhere to your own particular rules as to what qualifies a 'geek'..."
Is there a male equivalent of this phenomenon? Obviously I've only ever experienced the geek gatekeeper horror from the female side - Do guys ever get quizzed about their geek cred before they're accepted as a 'true' geek? Are there some geek circles which are as hostile to newbie males as they are to females?
I'm interested from a 'I want to know more about why this happens in geek culture' standpoint more than a 'AAAAAAAA MEN ARE OPPRESSING ME!' one, so if we can get through this conversation without it devolving into a whiny argument about which gender whines the most I think we'd all be very happy (Ah, impossible dreams...).
EDIT: 2nd option should read 'No, but only because men don't enter geek culture just to get attention like some women do'
It is also very important to note that most people labeled as nerds were male. I could go into great detail why this was, but it is essentially because of alpha male behavior. The stronger males bully the weaker ones to impress the females. This led to a huge disparity between male and female geeks, perhaps a handful of women among dozens of men.
After high school being a geek pretty much stopped being a problem for anyone. In fact, many people who had been ostracized as a geek in high school became extremely successful. People like Steve Jobs and Bill Gates. But the damage doesn't go away overnight. These people still identified as nerds because 6 years of soul crushing harassment had taught them that the only people that they could ever trust were other nerds. And then the internet happened, giving the nerds a place to talk about all of this.
Combine a community with a strong identity brought about by the existence of a common enemy, a growing sense by pretty much everyone that nerds often became very important after high school, and a place for everyone to talk about this and get organized. This led to a sort of social revolution where nerds took back the term and made it a positive thing. Being a nerd, and more importantly for this discussion, hanging out with nerds was becoming something that was socially acceptable at the high school level.
But change is slow. This huge shift took years, and I was in middle school and high school when it was happening. I got the worst of it during middle school and let me tell you, it was hell. Easily the worst years of my life. I learned by sad experience that everyone who tried to interact with me was doing it to hurt me, unless they were also a nerd. So, as a defensive strategy, you would only ever hang out with nerds. You would judge if someone was on your side by how nerdy they were, thus "nerd cred" was born.
Then, right when I was moving into high school, things started to break down. It was no longer social suicide to associate with geeks, though we were still looked down on. And some girls, usually the girls who in the middle tier on the high school social ladder, discovered that by dating down the social ladder they became extremely desirable. They could get geek guys do to pretty much anything for the opportunity to date them. They always thought they were beautiful, they would do whatever the girl wanted, etc. Generally, this was a very good thing for geeks. Dating up would improve your social standing and often it was the only way you would ever get to be with a girl. There was only one problem: the non geek girl and geek guy had virtually nothing in common, so there was little in it besides being with a beautiful woman for the man, and that type of relationship gets old.
Some girls, however, actually enjoyed the same things as the guy geeks, either because they were already geeks or had learned to love the culture because they had dated a geek and found out that they liked all the weird things he was into. This was the geek girl that so many geek guys were after: a beautiful girl that to shared your interests and wanted to date you. Geek guys would treat such a women like a goddess. There was nothing more desirable in the world. The only problem was that they were extremely rare. In my group of 2 dozen plus geeks I regularly hung out with in high school there were 3 geek girls, and one was bat shit crazy so you didn't want to date her.
Finally, we get to the fake geek girl. These girls would pretend to be into geeky things, usually memorizing lines from movies and other things, in order to take advantage of geek guys complete devotion to such a woman. However, we were not stupid. We would quickly realize that this woman was just playing us, that she had no intention of anything resembling a meaningful relationship and was only concerned with getting as much out of us as possible and giving nothing in return.
So it became a difficult problem to figure out if the geek girl who was showing interest in you was actually interested or was just trying to con you. But you couldn't just come out and ask, that would be rude, so you had to use subtle tests in order to figure it out. Can she name the Captain of the Enterprise? Does she know who Gandalf is? A smart guy would gauge not only knowledge, but actual interest. Stupid guys would assume that just because she has never played a Mario game she must be trying to take advantage of him. Many geek guys have brought this paranoia into adult hood.
Combine all these things together and you get the primary reason for the constant nerd cred bashing: it used to really actually matter. Being able to tell a "real" nerd, a concept that actually meant something at the time, was an important defensive social skill and later became they way to identify those who would take advantage of us.
I don't know what the current scene is in high school, but this is what it was like when I was there. I imagine it has continued to change, it certainly has from my perspective. For a while it became very popular for people to claim they were nerds in high school, because everyone knows nerds became successful people afterwards. Once enjoyed an episode of Star Trek? I was such a nerd! Read Lord of the Rings for a school assignment? Such a nerd! Played Mario as a child? You wont believe how nerdy I was!
It has become socially acceptable, even cool, to be a nerd. There is little need for the old defensive strategies now, but the wounds were deep and still haven't completely healed. Even now, 10 years after it was relevant to me, I have a hard time trusting people who aren't nerds and I generally avoid them out of habit. I have been able to get over some of the worse engrained behaviors, such as being instantly suspicious of any woman claiming to be a nerd, but many of these conditioned responses will be with me forever. Being at a large social gathering, such as at a football game, is genuinely unnerving. In any social situation I instinctively choose defensive positioning, usually where I wont be noticed by most in the room. I always have to have my back to a wall so no one can sneak up on me.
I think this problem, at it's root, is a learned behavior that is so deeply engrained that many are being sexist without realizing what they are doing. They don't want to be mean and sexist but they unconsciously perceive a threat and act defensively (and often maliciously) when no actual threat exists. It is a serious problem and needs to be addressed, but I feel that people often over simplify the behavior as strait sexism when it is actually much more complicated.
I hope this helps you understand. Sorry for the massive wall of text.
it does happen to man, i guess.
but like with many similar situations like this, the alternative is just not that known even though it happens and maybe more that then the one we know. for all we know there are many guys who say they are geeks to gain attention from females geeks.
what issue i have with this kind of people is that they are really extreme in it, when the 'real' geeks are rather normal about it. i like certain things a lot, but sometimes you have those people who glorify it beyond the point of reason and i don't like these people. i never really like people who think they have certain hobbies everyone should know about and who only want to be related with that. i like video games, but i rarely speak about it with people when there is no reason for it. sure, they know i am a huge gamer (atleast compared to them), but i don't throw them to dead with it.
but like with many similar situations like this, the alternative is just not that known even though it happens and maybe more that then the one we know. for all we know there are many guys who say they are geeks to gain attention from females geeks.
what issue i have with this kind of people is that they are really extreme in it, when the 'real' geeks are rather normal about it. i like certain things a lot, but sometimes you have those people who glorify it beyond the point of reason and i don't like these people. i never really like people who think they have certain hobbies everyone should know about and who only want to be related with that. i like video games, but i rarely speak about it with people when there is no reason for it. sure, they know i am a huge gamer (atleast compared to them), but i don't throw them to dead with it.
Farson89 said:
What if someone was a physicist and a geek?
Would one be allowed to enjoy "The Big Bang Theory" then? Because that is pretty much the only reason I watch it. The whole "geek"-undertones are fine and everything, but really, I view it as a documentary about physics-students.
Really?Calibanbutcher said:
How many physics students do you know who get chosen to go into space, or meet Stan Lee, or avoid being imprisoned for invading Stan Lee's home? Or are frenemies with Wil Wheaton? Or befriend and then seduce their hot, dumb-but-lovable neighbour? Or crash the Mars Rover and get away with it?
TBBT is a good show, but a documentary it is not.
Well...shit. Guess I better go throw away all those comic books I own and love to read. I forgot I only bought them because of the frequent trips I see to the LCS on BBT. I just wanted to look cool man!Daveman said:
I guess I'm just a massive poser because I laugh every time I see an utterly truthful disparaging joke about the comic book fandom on the Big Bang Theory. Why hadn't I noticed this before? Thank you for opening my eyes!
Eugh.
Ok, maybe slightly exaggerated plot-wise, but as far as behaviour goes it's pretty much spot on for some I know.Stasisesque said:
And since I don't live in the US, invading Stan Lee's home would be quite an impressiv achievement.
Crashing the Mars Rover though, ehm nooot gonna say anything about that *cough*
I absolutely think this is a bigger problem for women than it is for men, but I don't agree that it is exclusive to (or more prevalent in) "geek" culture. Pretty much any interest-based subculture that develops in an insular, mostly gender-exclusive way produces similar situations (think sports, or cars, or gambling, or fasion, or banking/finance, or comedy, or quilting, or whatever). In these sorts of groups, there is usually an archetypical picture people have in their heads of what a member will be like, and anyone who doesn't fit that archetype, for any reason, is going to receive increased scrutiny.
For a long time, "geek" culture was perceived to be mostly made up of men, mostly younger, and often socially outcast or stigmatized. Anyone who doesn't fit this mold perfectly will likely face some incredulity if they try to join in. Some of my best "geeky" friends from my younger days were hesitant to trust me at first, simply because they knew I liked to work on cars and had wrestled in high school. I didn't fit the archetype, and it took a long time for them to come around to the idea that I actually shared their interests and priorities. I don't think the attitude is born so much out of hostility as incredulity, it's just harder to believe certain types of people would want to be part of the group/subculture.
In the case of the "girl geek" reaction, I think this natural tendency is augmented by a few factors. First, I think most members of traditional "geek" culture have, at some point in their past, been victims of bullying or harassment, and have likely been made to pay for being too open or trusting with others. Second, gender has the unfortunate distinction of being one of the fundamental ways that people are classified, and as a result a gender "gap" between members is much harder to bridge or ignore than other kinds of differences. Finally, the fact that "geek" culture exists mostly online means that people are much more openly hostile and insulting than they would ever be in person. OK, I've probably gone on way too long already. Hopefully that makes sense?
For a long time, "geek" culture was perceived to be mostly made up of men, mostly younger, and often socially outcast or stigmatized. Anyone who doesn't fit this mold perfectly will likely face some incredulity if they try to join in. Some of my best "geeky" friends from my younger days were hesitant to trust me at first, simply because they knew I liked to work on cars and had wrestled in high school. I didn't fit the archetype, and it took a long time for them to come around to the idea that I actually shared their interests and priorities. I don't think the attitude is born so much out of hostility as incredulity, it's just harder to believe certain types of people would want to be part of the group/subculture.
In the case of the "girl geek" reaction, I think this natural tendency is augmented by a few factors. First, I think most members of traditional "geek" culture have, at some point in their past, been victims of bullying or harassment, and have likely been made to pay for being too open or trusting with others. Second, gender has the unfortunate distinction of being one of the fundamental ways that people are classified, and as a result a gender "gap" between members is much harder to bridge or ignore than other kinds of differences. Finally, the fact that "geek" culture exists mostly online means that people are much more openly hostile and insulting than they would ever be in person. OK, I've probably gone on way too long already. Hopefully that makes sense?
Over a decade of hair-related bullying would agree with me. To be fair I was in a country where gingers are historically witches (For a lot of Arabs, the first gingers they saw, historically, were crusaders. So they have some leftover hatred towards gingers) but still. Not much ginger love in the UKDugMachine said:
Perhaps I am miss-remembering.SirBryghtside said:
She was still a hot as hell as an utter geek. Total trekkie. It was a pity about the whole her also being a closeted lesbian who was using me as her cover. But still. As geeky as the day is long.
*whistles*
My point that I do not know any poser geeks, have never met any posergeeks and I believe that they, as a whole, do not exist and are constructions of the lonely male psyche (She is hot! No way in hell she would be a geek ergo blah blah blah). But I guess that is just me.
Bacon.
Hey guys, guess what? I'm a nerd in all senses of the word: Been gaming, watching Star Trek, etc yada yada since the 80's (/end geek cred and will mention since before many of you were born since this thread is denegerating) AND I'm a Librarian. One of those people who made a career out of being a geek and a nerd.
I enjoy The Big Bang Theory.
It's funny. It doesn't matter if you hate it, just stop badmouthing people for watching it. Isn't that the exact same thing this whole article is about? Fake geekness/elitism?
Stuff it.
I enjoy The Big Bang Theory.
It's funny. It doesn't matter if you hate it, just stop badmouthing people for watching it. Isn't that the exact same thing this whole article is about? Fake geekness/elitism?
Stuff it.
Mr F. said:
Oh sorry to hear that. Was only wondering cause my girlfriend is ginger and I love her very much :3! Don't worry Mr F, not everyone is a jerk!
I've seen it happen to the women in my circle several times. It's never been legit at all, they're all the geekiest geeks to ever geek. It's kinda sad.
Never once seen the 'fake geek' accusation happen to a guy. I've had some people doubt I was as nerdy as I am based off appearance, but I don't think that's the same thing.
Never once seen the 'fake geek' accusation happen to a guy. I've had some people doubt I was as nerdy as I am based off appearance, but I don't think that's the same thing.
This has been around for a long time. I think it's more prevalent among women because of the stereotype that women can't or shouldn't be geeks. All in all though it's a broader issue that goes back to the roots of attraction, that being that people will often attempt to adopt hobbies, interests, or views from people who they are physically attracted to. There have been men, as well as women, who have been doing this forever with sports, exercise, environmentalism, politics, even religion. As "nerdy" hobbies have become more mainstream, the chances of someone an otherwise "normal" person would be attracted to possessing a "nerdy" hobby have grown larger, as have the chances of said person being proud rather than ashamed of said hobby. This results in the "normal" person feigning(or in some cases developing a legitimate interest in) the "nerdy" hobby, a development that causes all "true nerds" in his or her vicinity to call bullshit. Because of the social stigma attached to "nerdy" women this situation occurs more often with women than it does with men, thus the "fake nerd girl" stereotype.
It's just a done thing now it seems. It happens with both genders, but it's just way more common with the girls.
I'm pretty sure there aren't that many in the obnoxious category to be quite honest, but there are plenty who are just massive attention seekers and love to start drama over nothing.
There are alot of princesses with entitlement issues. And the few ruin the image of the many.
Much like how the entire gaming community is taking the blame for the actions of a few misogynists doing stupid shit.
People like this don't help the image.
Add on top of that the changes that are actually being made to geeky hobbies (or gaming in this case) to accommodate for this new influx of people (both genders) such as making games way too easy, the overuse of cutscenes to make things "cinematic", the shortening of games, the amount of forced romance subplots, the homogenization of industry in general...
It's all been done in the name of marketers chasing down the fabled "casual market" (Children, Women and Old people).
I feel bad for the girls that have been in it for the long haul, but I trust they're smart enough to understand when the rest of the oldguard are a little mistrustful and frustrated these days.
I'm pretty sure there aren't that many in the obnoxious category to be quite honest, but there are plenty who are just massive attention seekers and love to start drama over nothing.
There are alot of princesses with entitlement issues. And the few ruin the image of the many.
Much like how the entire gaming community is taking the blame for the actions of a few misogynists doing stupid shit.
People like this don't help the image.
Add on top of that the changes that are actually being made to geeky hobbies (or gaming in this case) to accommodate for this new influx of people (both genders) such as making games way too easy, the overuse of cutscenes to make things "cinematic", the shortening of games, the amount of forced romance subplots, the homogenization of industry in general...
It's all been done in the name of marketers chasing down the fabled "casual market" (Children, Women and Old people).
I feel bad for the girls that have been in it for the long haul, but I trust they're smart enough to understand when the rest of the oldguard are a little mistrustful and frustrated these days.