Poll: Fallout 3 or New Vegas

[SajuukKhar]

snip

-The calculator only takes over the brotherhood forceably in the evil karma ending. In all other the BoS willingly allow the player, or Barneky, to lead them.
-Technically incorrect, Fallout uses 50's and 60's views of the FUTURE found in scifi B movies, many of which included illogical leaps in technology such as food preservation.
-The food system doesn't need to be EXPLAINED because it is explicitly SHOWN in Fallout 3, whereas New Vegas no hunters or randomly encounters scavengers, so the game has to be told to you. and yes, it does show companies sensibility, Beth largely prefers in-game action via NPCs to explain the world rather then info dumb dialog, whereas Obsidian does the opposite.
-And it isn't enough to logically beat the NCR if the NCR wasn't portrayed as Loony Toons.
-The problem with your analogy is that House has no obvious gun.
-I never said the NCR weren't in Nelson, or that the Legion didn't take them out.
-It actually can, as lognj as you [play on the difficulty the game was balanced for.
-Yes, it is strange, specially given that energy weapons were considered so useless in NV the devs actually altered them in a patch to try to buff them to Fallout 3 levels as per fan request.
-And yet you somehow missed the entirely function food gathering system in Fallout 3? are you use you got info from looking around in NV, or were you "looking around" for a NPC to info dump you.

snip

I was actually speaking about how nelson was implied to have already had people living in it before the NCR took over, it was a town, that the NCR tried to occupy, but it wasn't a "military base" like the airport is.

Yes, i know, that was part of my point. The NCR is explicitly shown to not consider House a threat, which makes them wanting you because you have access to the Lucky 38 illogical, as they dont care.

snip

-Not at all, ive seen more complains about iron sights being hand holdey then them slowing down the game, which they dont since in many games you move the same speed anyways.

-Real world logic =/= good in-game mechanics. by that argument anything less then instant kill from headshots, except in like 1% of cases, is bad game design.

-The only good pistol in New Vegas is lucky, or THAT GUN, every other pistol is immediately outclassed by even the most basic assault rilfe that you can buy from Chet in goodsprings.

-Also false, given how DT works, all bullet damage is reduced to nearly nothing compared to any other decent single bullet weapon.

-DT is provable more flawed then DR, here's the math behind it.
spoilered due to length

Spoiler

-Max base game HP in New Vegas = 445
-DT from best Light armor in vanilla(Vault 34 security armor) = 19
-DT from best heavy armor in vanilla(Encalve Power armor = 36
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Damage_Threshold
-DT: Like in previous games, DT is an outright subtraction: if a shot is fired with a damage value of 40 against a DT of 10, then 10 damage will be ignored. However, unlike in Fallouts 1 and 2, DT cannot outright reduce an attack to below 20% of its adjusted, pre-DT damage.
-10mm pistol does 22 damage
-Anti Material rifle does 110

Using DT, and comparing how many hits it would take to kill you with max hp and the best light/heavy armor we get
-Light armor
22(damage from 10mm)-19(dt)=4.4(damage taken, since Dt cant reduce below 20%)
445(hp)/4.4(damage)=101.13(shots to kill)
-Heavy armor
22-36=4.4
445/4.4=101.13
Going from the best light armor to the best heavy armor lets you survive ZERO more shots from a 10mm.

Using the AMR we get
-light armor
110-19=91
445/91=4.89
-Heavy armor
110-36=74
445/74=6.01
Going from the best light armor to the best heavy armor, while at max vanilla HP, lets you survive literally only ONE more shot from a AMR.

Using those same values, but switching DT to Fallout 3's DR, and using DR's % based damage reduction, we get
-Light armor
22*.19=4.18
22-4.18=17.82
445/17.82=24.97
-Heavy armor
22*.36=7.92
22-7.92=14.08
445/14.08=31.6
Going from the best light armor to the best heavy armor lets you survive 7 more hits from a 10mm, compared to NV's ZERO.

Using the AMR we get
-Light armor
110*.19=20.9
110-20.9=89.1
445/89.1=4.99
-Heavy armor
110*.36=39.6
110-39.6=70.4
445/70.4=6.3
Roughly the same as New Vegas, which is to be somewhat expected given that the AMr is built to be a freaking tank buster gun.

In conclusion we have
-Heavy armor in New Vegas, compared to light armor, lets you survive literally zero more shots from a weak weapon like the 10m, and only ONE from a strong weapon like the AMR, while heavy armor weighs twice as much, costs 10X as much to repair, and slows movement speed by 15-20%.

-Heavy armor in Fallout 3 lets you survive several more shots from weak weapons, and about the same as New Vegas when it comes to strong ones, but lets also not forget, Fallout 3's highest heavy armor DR rating was 60, which gives us values of

Spoiler

10mm
22*.6=13.2
22-13.2=8.8
445/8.8=50.5
or 25 more shots from a 10mm
and
AMR
110*.6=66
110-66=44
445/44=10.11
or 5 more shots from an AMR

Now look me in the eyes and tell me DT is better and more balanced then DR..... you cant, its mathematically more flawed, and it makes every armor above light armor 100% worthless as heavy armors additional weight, repair costs, and speed reduction come at offering effectively zero more protection from better weapons, and literally no more protection from weaker ones.

Which is turn makes AP rounds, quite literally, utterly useless, as you do, and take, the same damage regardless of how much DT they, or you, have anyways.

On other hand fallout 3's Dr system actually offers more protection from weapons as you get heavier armor, thus making the weight, speed reduction, and repair costs, many times more justifiable.


-15 dt is literally less the vault 34 security armor, its nothing,
-you forget NPCs have special NPc only perks that boost their DT and weapon damage.
-Using a service rifle, one of the worst weapons in the game, sure, but compare to a AMR, or LAER, or Holorifle, or any GOOD weapon, AP rounds are pointless.

carry out a genocide which will be inflicted upon you too, for no other reason than it's EVIIIIIILLL?"

>wanting pure humans in vaults to have a world free of mutant creatures and plant life attacking and killing them to live in is EVILL!!!!

 

[SajuukKhar]

ugh,double posts, added to previous one.

 

[Blachman201_v1legacy]

>wanting pure humans in vaults to have a world free of mutant creatures and plant life attacking and killing them to live in is EVILL!!!!

If you are also killing off 99% of the human population? Yes. Yes it is.

In-game, you even lose 1000 karma points for it, and the narrator calls you out on it. It is pretty clear that there is nothing ambiguous about it, not even in-universe.

Heck, it is even a self-destructive choice as the Lone Wanderer isn't a pure-stain human, and get sick and die if they drink the water afterwards, so it qualifies as Stupid Evil. At least the Legion ending in New Vegas sees the Courier getting honored by Caesar, and becoming a revered figure in the Legion.

Yes, i know, that was part of my point. The NCR is explicitly shown to not consider House a threat, which makes them wanting you becuase you have acess to the Lucky 38 illogical, as they dont care.

They do care. In the NCR questline, Moore tells the player she wants Mr. House out of the picture because of his substantial influence. And the Courier can enter the Lucky 38 freely so, it logically follows that they have a better shot at him. The Courier is also not directly affiliated with the NCR at this point, which is why they get the dirty work; it will be easier for the NCR to deny any knowledge if the Courier fails a task.

 

[JazzJack2]

snip

-Not at all, ive seen more complains about iron sights being hand holdey then them slowing down the game, which they dont since in many games you move the same speed anyways.

I have never heard a single FPS player complain about iron sights being hand holdy, unnecessary and annoying yes but never anything as stupid as them being handholding (which makes no sense at all).

-Real world logic =/= good ingame mechanics. by that argument anything less then instant kill from headshots, except in like 1% of cases, is bad game design.

Except of course the sways guns have is negated by a mixture of putting skill points into the guns skill and having reasonable strength for heavier weapons, which is a perfectly acceptable mechanic in an rpg and is better than your nonsense that if you have max strength that you should supposedly have perfect control over firearms for no fucking reason.

-The only good pistol in New Vegas is lucky, or THAT GUN, every other pistol is immediately outclassed by even the most basic assault rilfe that you can buy from chet in goodsprings.

Maria, the Ranger Sequoia and A Light in Shinning Darkness are all perfectly useable up until the end of the game, and all of the other guns have their use at some point or another.

-also false, given how DT works, all bullet damage is reduced to nearly nothing comapred to any other decent single bullet weapon.

Presumably this is a response to the riot shotgun thing in which you must have missed the part where I said slugs.

Now look me in the eyes and tell me DT is better and more balanced then DR..... you cant, its mathematically more flawed, and it makes every armor above light armor 100% worthless as heavy armors additional weight, repair costs, and speed reduction come at offering effectively zero mroe protection from better weapons.

If you cherry pick examples like you did maybe, literally taking one of the lowest damage per shot weapons against one the highest and purposefully using two armours of which the DT negated all but the %20 of the damage it can't negate. Take something middle of the road like the hunting rifle and you'll see DT works fine

The hunting rifle does 52 damage per shot
52 - 19 = 33
445/33 = 13.48

52 - 36 = 16

445/16 = 27.36


Oh look the Heavy armor makes you take twice as many hits in this example meaning it's not completely worthless like you suggest.

Oh and while where at it lets have a look at AP rounds

49 - (36 - 15) = 28
445/28 = 15.89

Huh alternative ammunition choices also turn out to be useful despite your claims to the contrary.

The key thing you're also missing out though is the relevance of DPS, DT is literally there to stop low powered but high DPS weapons chopping through everything meaning you need to use a variety of weapons.

Let's look at Fallout 3

The DPS of an assualt rifle is 64 and the damage per shot is 8.
the DPS of a hunting rifle 19 and the damage per shot is 25

Against say combat armor which has 32 DR the DPS is 43.52 for the assault rifle and 12.92 for the hunting rifle which is the the same ratio (64/19 = 43.52/12.92) meaning the assault rifle is superior no matter what the enemies armour is (unless you go for sneak attack criticals where things are different.) This is unlike NV where armour actually makes a fucking difference instead of being what is effectively extra health ( whihc is good because it makes a greater variety of weapons viable).

 

[Dr. Crawver]

I find it odd that an argument for FO3 is that it's more immersive. I find immersion in a well constructed world, and when I go around asking the question "what do they eat?" I see so little in 3. Seriously, how do people survive there? With the number of people, all old world supermarkets should have been bled dry by now (I actually thought it was dumb when I found that supermarket with decent stores left. It was in a central location, everyone would know about it. Rivit city had no obvious food source, and all of the supermutants must have to eat near their own bodymass to keep themselves going, and I doubt they eat that many people a day.

Whereas NV has food and clean water everywhere. They never show it as being easy, but I can see how people can live there. I can see why the nations want the land, and I can see how the day to day works. I feel that it's a world I could live in, in it's most literal sense. And that is what I say is immersion.

People might be pointing to bugs, but then they both have their fair share of them, and when played now, neither are really stupid amounts. (replaying NV now, 26 hours, and only bug I've found is the mysterious magnum plays it's noise twice rather than once when I pull it out. Not a huge deal)

 

[SajuukKhar]

snip

Except they arent humans, that's kind why they die in the fist place. They are things that should have never been born in a world that should have never existed. Nothing sort of a Fallout 3 style GECK, which would kill ALL humans, or the FEV, which would just kill most of them, can actually fix the ruined world.

and choosing to let yourself die so that other people may have a better life may be self destructive, but it is noble, which is kinda the whole point of Fallout 3, which is just one massive Jesus allegory.

Except, again, the NCR could just drop a bomb on House. The chairmen, omertas, and everyone in Freeside hates House, and a substantial part of the White glove society was breaking his rules also. the NCr outright taking him out would probably win them massive kudo points from everyone in freeside and westside who were forced to live in abject posterity, despite House being able to easily help them, simply because they wouldn't play dollhouse like House wanted.

 

[SajuukKhar]

snip

-Then you dont get on man FPs forums often, I see it mentioned all the time.

-Gun sway shouldn't exist period, its as idiotic as dice rolls in a first person FPS or RPG. the max str thing was just an example,and even then, why not? having 100 in speech lets you talk Hitler out of Ww2 despite that not being logical in any way. 100 stats have NEVER been realistic.

-All of which are outclassed by easily obtainable weapons such as the AMR.

-If you had payed attention to the foloowing DT math, you would know slugs do nothing.

-It works fine with middle of the road weapons.... which only make up 1/3 of the weapons in game, where as DR works fine with weapons form literally all ranges, beginning, middle, and end, while also keeping a consistent curve, whereas DT just maxes out after light armor

So we still end up with
Fallout 3
-Get more damage negation from weak weapons by getting better armor
-Get more damage negation from midrange weapons by getting better armor
-Get more damage negation from strong weapons by getting better armor
New Vegas
-Get no more damage negation from weak weapons by getting better armor
-Get more damage negation from midrange weapons by getting better armor
-Get no more damage negation from strong weapons by getting better armor
DT is only effective in 1/3 of weapons, DR is effective in all. 3 out of 3 is greater then one out of three.

the assault rifle is a automatic gun, the hunting rifle is lower end sniper rifle, you are SUPPOSED to use it only for sneak attack critials.

Basically, what you just complained about, is RPGs making swords better for general combat then daggers, but having daggers do greater sneak attack critical damage... that's the whole damn point!

Its called weapon diversity, giving each weapon type different roles for specific situations, giving each type a unique role, rather then just making everything a general purpose weapon like DT makes it.

 

[JazzJack2]

-Gun sway shouldn't exist period, its as idiotic as dice rolls in a first person FPS or RPG. the max str thing was just an example,and even then, why not? having 100 in speech lets you talk Hitler out of Ww2 despite that not being logical in any way. 100 stats have NEVER been realistic.

Gun sway makes perfect sense in a game where the skill of the player should be less relevant than the skill points of the character, it gives an easy way to reflect Gun skill. Also funny you should complain about dice rolls and randomization despite the fact that Fallout 3 has randomized spray that is based on skill points.

-All of which are outclassed by easily obtainable weapons such as the AMR.

The AMR has quite limited roles given it has a low rate of fire and has a huge scope on it, hardly a close quarters weapon.

-If you had payed attention to the foloowing DT math, you would know slugs do nothing.

67 damage per shot with 268 DPS is not nothing mate.

Fallout 3
-Get more damage negation from weak weapons by getting better armor
-Get more damage negation from midrange weapons by getting better armor
-Get more damage negation from strong weapons by getting better armor

With no distinction between weak DPS and weak Damage per shot weapons, meaning it completely ruins gun variation.

-Get no more damage negation from weak weapons by getting better armor

No, you get no more damage reduction from weak weapons after a certain point which is perfectly acceptable and makes sense. Comparing two really good armours against a pistol you can get extremely early in the game is nonsense and irrelevant in terms of game design (like you said it would take 100 shots for this gun to kill you anyway). Better armours at the same level as the 10mm will make a difference to the damage taken and the armours you mentioned will make a difference to the guns you encounter at that level.

-Get no more damage negation from strong weapons by getting better armor

If by strong you mean one of the highest damage per shot weapons in the game then yes it won't, but that makes perfect sense given the AMR is designed to Peirce armour thicker than any armour humans could reasonably wear. Against strong weapons that have high DPS E.G the Bozar the armour will make a huge difference.

And this how the game creates weapon diversity. Weapons with high damage per shot like rifles are useful against heavily armoured targets but suck at say a crowd of moderately armoured enemies where an automatic weapon with high DPS is much more useful.

DR is effective in all. 3 out of 3 is greater then one out of three.

DR is good for nothing, it is a flat reduction that cripples variation in the way weapons playout, like I said it is effectively just extra HP.

assault rifle is a automatic gun, the hunting rifle is lower end sniper rifle, you are SUPPOSED to use it only for sneak attack critials.

But for anything outside sneaking DR make only DPS relevant which is horrible.

[/quote]Basically, what you just complained about, is RPGs making swords better for general combat then daggers, but having daggers do greater sneak attack critical damage... that's the whole damn point! [/quote]

No it's equivalent to a game giving you Axes, Maces and Swords, making them all equally as easy to get and then telling you only swords are useful or that there is effectively no difference between the way the weapons play.

Its called weapon diversity, giving each weapon type different roles for specific situations, giving each type a unique role, rather then just making everything a general purpose weapon like DT makes it.

But that's the complete opposite of what it does, with DT weapons take on a bigger variety of roles because you need to find a good balance of DPS, damage per shot and ammunition depending on the enemy you are facing. With DR all you have to do is use the highest DPS weapon you have unless you want to sneak in which case you go for highest per shot or one with a critical damage boost, that's boring as fuck.

Fallout 3 has almost no weapon diversity.

 

[Ihateregistering1]

Gonna have to go with New Vegas, but bear in mind a lot of this is because, to me, it captured the 'feel' of the first two Fallout games much better than 3 did, and I'm a huge fan of the first two games.

Although I did think 3 had a better story, I found the factions, weapons, perks, and overall gameplay choices a lot better in NV, plus I think it did the "grim but also really funny" vibe a lot better than 3 did.

For the most part, I actually liked the environments in NV more than 3. Walking around the ruins of DC sounds really cool, but to me it just felt like a lot of walking around samey-looking blown up buildings, 90% of which you couldn't even go inside. Additionally, the Subway tunnels got really confusing and annoying very quickly.

 

[Blachman201_v1legacy]

Except they arent humans, that's kind why they die in the fist place. They are things that should have never been born in a world that should have never existed. Nothing sort of a Fallout 3 style GECK, which would kill ALL humans, or the FEV, which would just kill most of them, can actually fix the ruined world.

So not only do you advocate in favor of an eugenics-based genocide, you also simply do not understand Fallout at all. You apparently have repeatedly failed to notice that everyone who argues in favor of wiping the slate clean in the series has all been villains, mad men, and insane AIs.

Except, again, the NCR could just drop a bomb on House.

For someone who claims to want "logical" sense in their games, you sure don't seem to understand remotely how politics and diplomacy works. How do you seriously think a high profile assassination carried out in official capacity on behalf of a government against the recognized head of an independent, sovereign state involved in no hostile activities against the nation of that government, would work out, especially considering that that nation is a democracy?

 

[Riddle78]

By leaps,bounds,miles and lightyears,New Vegas.

Why? Variety. There's more energy weapons. More ballistic weapons. More melee weapons. More EVERYTHING. Mechanics make more sense,and are implemented in a much better way. Armour actually MEANS something. The followers are more frequent,interesting,and more manageable. And the plot is an interesting case of "Came from left field" for everyone ELSE involved. At least,without the DLC.

With the DLC,the plot is not about the Second Battle for Hoover Dam. It's about Courier Six,and the Courier that turned down the job. How he,effectively singlehanded,set up every single major event in the game,both in the main game,and the DLC. Hoover Dam's discovery? His doing. The White Legs gunning for New Caanan? His orders. Elijah's entire Sierra Madre expedition? He planted the seeds. The near-catastrophe that was the Big Empty? One phrase from his lips was all it took. The Divide? This is the only oddball. It's spoilers to the utmost extreme,but let me just say that it's...Personal.

Back to the Second Battle of Hoover Dam,I believe someone on the Escapist already pointed it out,but it isn't about the dam. It's a political examination,using Fallout as a backdrop. I forget the specifics,but the four conquering factions represent different extremes on a political chart. The dam is just where you go to install your preferred government. Possibly literally. Courier Six's journey across the Mojave Region was,initially,about getting back at Benny for putting a couple of bullets into their brainpan,but who WOULDN'T want to do exactly that,considering that you now have the ultimate advantage of surprise? But,as I mentioned earlier,this is rapidly replaced by more pressing matters. Namely,the power struggle,and Courier (Not) Six.

Meanwhile,Fallout 3 is simply vapid. The Enclave have no personality. Nothing defining them. Their sole goal is to purge the world of mutants. THEIR definition of mutant. Which means "Anyone with any trace of radiation in them beyond the norm." Which means everyone that isn't currently living in a Control Vault,or ate too many bananas. Sorta like Nazi Germany,just a hell of a lot less discriminatory in who they shoot. The Brotherhood of Steel in FO3 are WORSE,hilariously enough. It's like a disgusting Frankenstein of the Rebels from Star Wars and a "MURRICA! FUCK YEAH!" militia. And then there's the cop out that is Liberty Prime. And everything surrounding Project Purity. Honestly,I was only interested in a SINGLE element of Fallout 3. Pittsburgh. That place had a more interesting story,with more moral ambiguity than the entire Capitol Wasteland at once.

EDIT: People seem to be under the assumption that faction X can drop a bomb on faction Y. No,they cannot. Wanna know why? Mr. House has a defense grid in place. The sole reason why there were only four or five bomb impacts in the entire Mojave Region. If someone wanted to deploy that kind of ordinance in the Mojave Region,Mr. House will need to want it to happen enough to disable the defense grid. There's a reason Courier (Not) Six isn't targeting the Mojave directly.

 

[SajuukKhar]

snip

-Except character skill only matters in third person games in which the player and the character are not treated as the same, which all first person RPGs dont do, and which neither Fo3 or NV are.

-Its a great close quarters weapon so long as you remember that the barrel length is longer then the first person view model shows, so you can avoid the bug where the bun barrel is technically going THROUGH the enemy, rather then still being in front of him, which causes that all to common bug of bullets seemingly going through enemies without doing damage.

-Except you forgot to factor in that DT makes all those bullets do no damage, since damage reduction is calculated per shot, instead of lumping them all into one massive pool.

-Except it doesn't by giving each gun type its own unique role, which guns in NV dont have, since DT just turns everything into general purpose combat weapons.

-Except power armor is made to be bullet proof from small weapons fire, it should give FAR more, technically 100%, damage reduction from all pistol weapons. what you just said is that foam and titanium steel should reduce damage to the same level.

-Except, as proven just posts ago, having high armor does NOT make a difference, at least when using DT, its, at most, ONE more shot from those low DPS, but high dam, weapons. Which is part of why Dr is better, it effectively doubles the number of hits you can take, while still making it do far more damage then any of type of weapon.

-Except as has been proven, it does no such thing, all DR does is force devs to design guns for specific roles based on logical uses, rather then just making every gun viable in nearly every situation, which isn't how real world weapons work.

-DPS is what matters outside sneaking, that's the whole point. low dps weapons are not meant to be used in general combat, that's part of weapon diversity. Every good RPG game made has done this.

-Wrong, its actually like making axes, swords, and maces all easy ot get, and then telling you
--Axes do bleed damage so they should be the weapon type you use when facing large numbers of enemies at once, so you only have to hit an enemy once or twice, then let the bleeding kill him, so you can take out all the enemies faster.
--Maces do armor piercing damage, so they should be used when facing an enemy boss that has high armor.
--Sword do the least damage, but are the fastest swinging and do more crit damage, making them the best weapon for general combat use when you arent facing either one super armored opponent, or a large swarm of enemies.

-EXCEPT YOU DON'T, as mathematically proven before, the only weapons DT makes you use are the ones with the highest overall damage, since, no matter what you use, they will take the same damage no matter what DT they have, thus making using any other weapon besides the AMR, or holrifle, not maximumly effective.

whereas DR forces you to carry a bunch of different types of weapons depending on the situation, and forces you to switch between then as combat changes.

using sniper rifles for those first long range sneak attack shots, then going to an assault rifle as they get closer, and using pistols for non armored, or low armroed, targets where wasting your assault rifle rounds would be a waste.

 

[SajuukKhar]

You apparently have repeatedly failed to notice that everyone who argues in favor of wiping the slate clean in the series has all been villains, mad men, and insane AIs.

http://www.gamebanshee.com/interviews/105836-fallout-new-vegas-and-dlc-post-mortem-interview-part-one-v15-105836.html
Lastly, with regards to the DLCs, I believe Ulysses is correct, a new framework of civilization is the only solution for the Mojave and the Legion and NCR are self-destructive institutions (the Legion is more a slow burn than NCR is) and both should be cleansed with fire. ~ Chris Avellone

The leader writer of Fallout 2 and New Vegas saying purging the world in nuclear fire is the correct choice.

Also, neither the Master, the Enclave, or Ulysses have been considerd "evil" just very extremest.

For someone who claims to want "logical" sense in their games, you sure don't seem to understand remotely how politics and diplomacy works. How do you seriously think a high profile assassination carried out in official capacity on behalf of a government against the recognized head of an independent, sovereign state involved in no hostile activities against the nation of that government, especially considering that that nation is a democracy?

Attempting to use present day politics in a world where there are no other nations to worry about objecting or retaliating to any action you make, along with the fact House IS considered hostile by the NCR for his use of the three families, and his small squad of securutorns ,as a small army to prevent the NCR from immediately annexing New Vegas, along with the overall corruption of the NCr, you REALLY think they wouldn't?

Mr. House has a defense grid in place.

Houses defense gird was also damages because he used it without the software upgrades from the plat chip which caused almost all of his computers to overload, sending him into a coma for decades, and making him barely able to function.

Even he outright states the fact at least once.

Also, Ulysses is targeting the NCR and Legion directly because they are the ones he hates, Vegas is nothing, its ruled by no one, it isn't what he hates, its the ground for which he believes he can make a better place, he has no reason to nuke it.

 

[Snotnarok]

New Vegas, 3 was a fun game in it's own right but I'm not sure why some rate it higher.
In NV there's a greater variety of weapons, enemies and characters, and better yet the game doesn't scale areas to your level which is something that ALWAYS bothered me about Bethesda games.

Open world fair enough but the entire world scaling to your level is just stupid. It means there's never a challenge, there's nothing that you can find that will be surprising because the game revolves around your character. I liked that going north of the first town in NV would result in your death, it meant you would actually have to have some caution in your travels because there may be something that can actually be threatening to you.

 

[Ml33tninja]

You apparently have repeatedly failed to notice that everyone who argues in favor of wiping the slate clean in the series has all been villains, mad men, and insane AIs.

http://www.gamebanshee.com/interviews/105836-fallout-new-vegas-and-dlc-post-mortem-interview-part-one-v15-105836.html
Lastly, with regards to the DLCs, I believe Ulysses is correct, a new framework of civilization is the only solution for the Mojave and the Legion and NCR are self-destructive institutions (the Legion is more a slow burn than NCR is) and both should be cleansed with fire. ~ Chris Avellone

The leader writer of Fallout 2 and New Vegas saying purging the world in nuclear fire is the correct choice.

"NO!! He was talking about the two factions in the Mojave desert. Never does the writer say the WHOLE WORLD should be burned in nuclear fire AGAIN."

For someone who claims to want "logical" sense in their games, you sure don't seem to understand remotely how politics and diplomacy works. How do you seriously think a high profile assassination carried out in official capacity on behalf of a government against the recognized head of an independent, sovereign state involved in no hostile activities against the nation of that government, especially considering that that nation is a democracy?

Attempting to use present day politics in a world where there are no other nations to worry about objecting or retaliating to any action you make, along with the fact House IS considered hostile by the NCR for his use of the three families, and his small squad of securutorns ,as a small army to prevent the NCR from immediately annexing New Vegas, along with the overall corruption of the NCr, you REALLY think they wouldn't?[/quote]

But remember NCR is fighting the Legion and is spread thin at the start of the game. Could they afford the resources is the important question.(for the sake of argument lets say Courier has no stake in any of the conflicts of the game). Legion has already infiltrate Vegas, so it would not be hard to assume they would use this to their advantage.

 

[Riddle78]

You apparently have repeatedly failed to notice that everyone who argues in favor of wiping the slate clean in the series has all been villains, mad men, and insane AIs.

http://www.gamebanshee.com/interviews/105836-fallout-new-vegas-and-dlc-post-mortem-interview-part-one-v15-105836.html
Lastly, with regards to the DLCs, I believe Ulysses is correct, a new framework of civilization is the only solution for the Mojave and the Legion and NCR are self-destructive institutions (the Legion is more a slow burn than NCR is) and both should be cleansed with fire. ~ Chris Avellone

The leader writer of Fallout 2 and New Vegas saying purging the world in nuclear fire is the correct choice.

Also, neither the Master, the Enclave, or Ulysses have been considerd "evil" just very extremest.

For someone who claims to want "logical" sense in their games, you sure don't seem to understand remotely how politics and diplomacy works. How do you seriously think a high profile assassination carried out in official capacity on behalf of a government against the recognized head of an independent, sovereign state involved in no hostile activities against the nation of that government, especially considering that that nation is a democracy?

Attempting to use present day politics in a world where there are no other nations to worry about objecting or retaliating to any action you make, along with the fact House IS considered hostile by the NCR for his use of the three families, and his small squad of securutorns ,as a small army to prevent the NCR from immediately annexing New Vegas, along with the overall corruption of the NCr, you REALLY think they wouldn't?

Mr. House has a defense grid in place.

Houses defense gird was also damages because he used it without the software upgrades from the plat chip which caused almost all of his computers to overload, sending him into a coma for decades, and making him barely able to function.

Even he outright states the fact at least once.

Also, Ulysses is targeting the NCR and Legion directly because they are the ones he hates, Vegas is nothing, its ruled by no one, it isn't what he hates, its the ground for which he believes he can make a better place, he has no reason to nuke it.

He can still operate most of his network without the drivers,as he says in the same breath. Furthermore,the only reason his network overloaded during the Great War was because of the volume of fire coming his way. In the current age,House can,without drivers,defend the Mojave Region from ICBM's,bombs,and other air-delivered ordinance for however long everyone else can deliver it. Which will only last a couple of minutes,tops. Hell,it'll likely only be one volley.

Ulysses also has his share of contempt for House and Vegas,calling them relics,fossils,something that doesn't belong in the here and now,and will only corrupt or otherwise damage the good that exists now. He also happens to be the best damn spy alive at the moment,so I'd bet all of the gold in Sinclair's vault that he knows about House's grid. The only reason he isn't pointing a third missile at Vegas. But,the Tunnelers will take care of that problem. Just give them a couple of years.

 

[SajuukKhar]

"NO!! He was talking about the two factions in the Mojave desert. Never does the writer say the WHOLE WORLD should be burned in nuclear fire AGAIN."

He was talking about all existent government based off of old world ideals, which is to say, every single known government in the post war world from the NCR to the Pitt.

The whole point of Fallout is that war never changes, because people never change, they just do the same shit over and over again, with the same disastrous results.

Nothing short of nuclear Armageddon at the hand of Ulysses makes sense as it would imply that doing the same thing again would result in a different outcome, when it doesn't.

The whole point of Fallout, ever since the first words of Fallout 1's opening, has been, "humans are screwed forever" the end.

He can still operate most of his network without the drivers,as he says in the same breath.

Except he cant, which is proven later in-game when he cant manually access the securuton bunker because his stuff is fried, and thus needs you to do it manually.

 

[Ml33tninja]

snip

Except they arent humans, that's kind why they die in the fist place. They are things that should have never been born in a world that should have never existed. Nothing sort of a Fallout 3 style GECK, which would kill ALL humans, or the FEV, which would just kill most of them, can actually fix the ruined world.

and choosing to let yourself die so that other people may have a better life may be self destructive, but it is noble, which is kinda the whole point of Fallout 3, which is just one massive Jesus allegory.

Except, again, the NCR could just drop a bomb on House. The chairmen, omertas, and everyone in Freeside hates House, and a substantial part of the White glove society was breaking his rules also. the NCr outright taking him out would probably win them massive kudo points from everyone in freeside and westside who were forced to live in abject posterity, despite House being able to easily help them, simply because they wouldn't play dollhouse like House wanted.

Yes those people are human. Time moves forward and people adapt to their environment. That is just human nature regardless to the condition of the world. Reducing the population by such numbers could spell the end for humanity as well.

 

[SajuukKhar]

Yes those people are human. Time moves forward and people adapt to their environment. That is just human nature regardless to the condition of the world. Reducing the population by such numbers could spell the end for humanity as well.

Humanities ultimate destiny was to be ended by itself. That is kinda the point of Fallout.

And no, they arent humans, because they arent a natural evolution, they are partially twisted FEV mutants caused by west-teks FEV vat getting hit in the war and releasing FEV into the air mutating everything in the open world.

Which is why a modified strain of FEV is so effective at killing them, its FEV killing FEV.

 

[Riddle78]

"NO!! He was talking about the two factions in the Mojave desert. Never does the writer say the WHOLE WORLD should be burned in nuclear fire AGAIN."

He was talking about all existent government based off of old world ideals, which is to say, every single known government in the post war world from the NCR to the Pitt.

The whole point of Fallout is that war never changes, because people never change, they just do the same shit over and over again, with the same disastrous results.

Nothing short of nuclear Armageddon at the hand of Ulysses makes sense as it would imply that doing the same thing again would result in a different outcome, when it doesn't.

The whole point of Fallout, ever since the first words of Fallout 1's opening, has been, "humans are screwed forever" the end.

He can still operate most of his network without the drivers,as he says in the same breath.

Except he cant, which is proven later in-game when he cant manually access the securuton bunker because his stuff is fried, and thus needs you to do it manually.

Except he can. He's near-constantly sending remote orders to Victor. And he can hook up to the screen in the bunker. The reason he has no control over the rest of the bunker is power; He needs a LOT of it to control something of that size from a remote location,and assorted hardware failures in the bunker also likely contributed to his inability to assume direct control of the bunker,up to and including a containment breach. And,let's not forget: He defended the Mojave Region from the Great War with v1.0 software. In the Mojave's current state,he can defend himself against things like bombs and ICBM's. His Securitrons are an impressive deterrent against land forces. And,as evidenced in the very existence of the Yes Man,there are elements in the Mojave capable of offering House software upgrades without the Platinum Chip. For House to take over,yeah,he needs the Chip,or an equivalent software upgrade. But,to keep to his own? He's laughing,right now. Not even Ulysses can touch him.