Poll: I want to change the Gamer reputation.

[Popido]

Rather than saying you're doing a movement, you should come up with a good plan that people can join in.

#GamerGate's plan was to use the twitter to get past the censorship and show that something is going on with gaming journalists.
OperationisrecpetfulNod is a way to make the advertisers aware how their partners are behaving.
#NotYourShield was started to show that people against press were not solely white-cis-male.

Think in that spirit.

Also, I have to disagree on #GamerGate being "tainted", just so that we're clear.

 

[Schadrach]

It won't be associated with gamergate.
It'll be a seperate entity.
That will be made clear from the start.

Nope, sorry. Your origins are in trying to discard the negative press associated with GamerGate. Therefore you are GamerGate under a new guise and made entirely of cis white male misogynist virgin neckbearded shitlords.

Now, I don't actually believe that statement, but that is *exactly* how you will be painted by the press.

The GamerGate side will likely paint you as a shill seeking to divide and conquer, who supports the press and accordingly supports cronyism, journalists ignoring that there's supposed to be a divide between themselves and their subjects, flip-flopping between being "journalists" and "bloggers" depending on whether they need the air of credibility or an excuse for their behavior in the moment (a variant of the Fox News defense), etc, etc, etc.

Of course, what will you do if a person engaging in the behaviors you take issue with is a woman? You can't say anything negative about a woman, or else you are the aforementioned misogynistic shitlords above, and have proved that you are just a renamed GamerGate trying to hide the fact that it's really about hating women. Criticism is harassment, not immediately listening and believing something said by a woman is misogyny. Since you disagreed with a woman, that means you hate that woman, and by extension all women, misogynistic shitlords.

Also, if you could do GamerGate a huge favor and tell them how you intend to prevent everyone on the internet from misbehaving in your name, that'd be immensely useful. Just because you explicitly claim you will not harass women and do not condone it doesn't mean that a Goon or GNAA idiot won't in your name. Just because you say you don't approve of or condone it doesn't mean you don't approve of or condone it, it just means you are lying about it, misogynistic shitlords.

 

[Skatologist]

You're right. If you're not interested in gaming in the slightest, you shouldn't be involved with this.
It's for gamers by gamers. And I mean that as in "those who play video games regularly" and not the other things.

Talking to @notthebees about webdesign and am accepting any help we can get.

You want to maybe have people interested start a group here first? I'm game for starting one just to get better organization. I know dragonfafa has had one for GG for quite some time and would be completely fine being owner of my own, if I had the slightest bit of an idea on how to organize. Maybe you could do it or see another group owner on specifics.

Also, #EndTheHate as a conjunction would be fine with me. Just no #StopGamerGate2014, that, although seems like a bit of our intention, is not worth doing just to make enemies.

 

[Dizchu]

It won't work. Like many said, this new "movement" will be tarred with the same brush as soon as they uncover something "inconvenient".

It happened with Gamergate, it will happen again here.

Step 1: Some people band together in the hopes of making people personally accountable for shitty behaviour.
Step 2: The people under scrutiny will get their pals to mock the critics and call them "misogynists" and "straight white males" (they should just start using the acronym SWM as their version of SJW).
Step 3: Some third parties will make death threats to cause drama or maybe to gain publicity.
Step 4: The new movement will be called "Gamergate 2.0", if it gets any attention it'll be slandered on every website you can think of.
Step 5: People will call it a lost cause and make "Gamergate 3.0" but "let's do it properly this time!"

When your target is journalists not taking responsibility for their actions and the coverage comes from these same people, you bet your ass the movement will be misrepresented. It's like Fox News' attitude towards Muslims, gays and atheists. "They'll all aggressive people that are trying to make life hard for us, boo hoo".

By the way, infinitechan, supports doxxing and other measures. Do not associate with if you want to be taken seriously.

This is absolutely untrue. Efforts have been made in the community and by the moderators to erase any leaked info on Zoe Quinn, Brianna Wu or whoever the flavour of the week is. The epic tale of the occasion when the mods were asleep and an anon leaked information on Zoe Quinn for example... It resulted in the community banding together to flood the boards with spam until the information got pushed off the site. It indicates a very serious and cooperative stance AGAINST doxxing and harassment if you ask me.

I'm not even 8chan's biggest fan, I tend not to go to Gamergate-centric places like 8chan and THE MONSTER GG THREAD because they end up devolving into conspiracy theories (SOCIAL MARXISM OMG), but credit where credit's due ya know?

 

[Dizchu]

Oh, is that why Hot Wheels refuses to condemn doxxing.

https://twitter.com/infinitechan/status/522446920221229056

I'm not sure Hot Wheels defines 8chan as much as Moot defines 4chan. He specifically made the site so people's IPs couldn't be traced. I think it relates to his very libertarian political beliefs or something. He takes "free speech" to a level people like myself wouldn't.

However... he's not encouraging it. I know this sounds like bullshit semantics but it ties in with his beliefs on free speech. "Nothing is sacred except free speech" would probably be his motto. The users of 8chan probably disagree which is why they have tried so hard to get rid of personal information and exposing the people that sent death threats.

But thanks for the tweet. I kinda liked Hot Wheels before (in the Huffpost interview he was pretty spot-on), now it seems that he's a bit of a dick. Hmm, what a shame.

Now some would say "he doesn't represent me. I have two responses to that. First, the fact that people who are pro-gamergate that are okay with that show a lack of unity within it. Secondly, the unwillingness to dissociate from 8chan shows about how much gators who still visit there actually care about "ethics".

They see 8chan as a haven of free speech. 4chan introduced draconian censorship rules concerning Gamergate (c'mon now) because Moot wanted to look good in front of his peers (he won't). At 8chan people won't moderate what they say unless it is absolutely necessary. That's the appeal they see. What I personally don't like is that this spirals into insane conspiracy theories, which is why I've never been to 8chan.

The 8chan mods said that they wouldn't tolerate flooding. I'll edit it in when I find where they said that.

Please do. I like it when the plot thickens. I mean that genuinely, Gamergate has been a series of rabbit holes that seemingly have no end.

There is no credit, they're essentially pro-doxxing because they refuse to condemn it, take down doxxed information, or tolerate attempts to hide doxx information. Anybody who patrons 8chan is showing that they don't actually care about ethics, and right now, its really the closest thing to GamerGate discussion forum.

Define "they". If people tried that hard to get rid of the information then this "they" becomes a quite nebulous group. I'm not sure if it was 8chan or people on another forum that exposed the Brazilian clickbait blogger that sent death threats to Anita Sarkeesian but their contributions have also been swept under the rug. Why not accept good deeds instead of erasing them to make "the narrative" seen more simple?

You know right know there's a gator who is trying to raise money to have a private investigator stalk Zoe Quinn. If you had structure, you could boot him to the curb and make an example of such behavior. But as of now, his membership in GamerGate is as valid as yours.

Now that sounds ridiculous. I'd like a source. I'm not doubting you, people have done ridiculous things as a result of GG, for or against it.

Also I'm not really a "member" of Gamergate. If I'm gonna label myself anything, it's a non-partisan. I don't care if GG succeeds or fails, I personally think it will fail because what they're fighting isn't ethical abuses, it's hypocrisy and the refusal to accept individual responsibility. That's a trait that's common in all kinds of people, not just "SJW"s or "game journalists".

I support Gamergate in the sense that I think it has the right to exist and I am always uneasy with groups being misrepresented, be it gays, atheists, transgenders, people accused of "SJW"-dom or even "Gamergaters".

 

[FPLOON]

Alright... I see what you're trying to do here... Unfortunately, I feel like if I did join this "movement", I would be nothing more than a vocally offline cheerleader, since I'm assuming this would be more of a show than tell in practice... Plus, despite having a Twitter account, I still have no idea how it's suppose to work other that what the PBS Idea Channel said it could do...

Other than that, I do like being kept up-to-date with stuff that interest me, even if I can't really do anything from a practical standpoint, so there's that... (Also, couldn't you technically be part of more than one movement that, in general, wants the same thing, but are approaching it from different [legal] angles? Or is it one of those "you're either with us or not" kind of thing?)

 

[grassgremlin]

Alright... I see what you're trying to do here... Unfortunately, I feel like if I did join this "movement", I would be nothing more than a vocally offline cheerleader, since I'm assuming this would be more of a show than tell in practice... Plus, despite having a Twitter account, I still have no idea how it's suppose to work other that what the PBS Idea Channel said it could do...

Other than that, I do like being kept up-to-date with stuff that interest me, even if I can't really do anything from a practical standpoint, so there's that... (Also, couldn't you technically be part of more than one movement that, in general, wants the same thing, but are approaching it from different [legal] angles? Or is it one of those "you're either with us or not" kind of thing?)

We're approaching it from a different and legal manner.
A civil manner as well. I'm discussing website development and currently mapping down the course of how we can construct.
It'll be handled very differently from Gamergate as well making sure the message is clear from the start and having grounded rules and leadership as well.

 

[grassgremlin]

Thread Updates.

I've created a group. Approval is required for anyone who wants to join.
The codename for our group is #IStandForBatboy created by @ZacharyAmaranth
It's inspired by Weekly World News coverage of Batboy, a fictional mascot for the tabloid news.
Batboy stands for Journalistic Revolution!

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/groups/view/IStandForBatboy

 

[V da Mighty Taco]

I like the concept you have going here in regard to a website (the hashtag idea is unsalvageable, though. Screw Twitter). However, I can't help but shake this feeling that it won't work quite like you expect.

Too many journalists and indie devs have been quick to cry harassment and villainize anyone who even criticizes them since before the Zoe Quinn scandal, let alone since GG started. It's too likely that those against GG will just claim that it's all part of the same movement or just a smokescreen for GG as well.

Secondly, I don't see too many within GG actually buying into this and dropping the GG label to support this, seeing as how so many of them are content with where they are now. The fact that it's not fighting "SJW"s and the like will also likely be a turnoff for far too many of them, as well as any insistence not to insult their critics with terms like SJW and "Literally Who". GG has a full-on war mentality at this point (as does it's critics) and doesn't care for taking the high-ground, and I don't see them willing to abandon that mindset anytime soon just for the sake of a fresh start that they think would hurt them more than it would help.

Captcha: "way to go!" Well, Captcha supports you. Maybe you're on to something! XD

 

[grassgremlin]

I decided to not ignore 8chan and make contact with them.
Many may object, but I assure you this is the best way we can get the ball rolling.
Instead of avoiding gamergate, I will reason with them and atleast try to get some of the good apples to support this.

 

[Thorn14]

I decided to not ignore 8chan and make contact with them.
Many may object, but I assure you this is the best way we can get the ball rolling.
Instead of avoiding gamergate, I will reason with them and atleast try to get some of the good apples to support this.

>Attempting to reason with 8Chan

Good luck with that.

 

[grassgremlin]

I decided to not ignore 8chan and make contact with them.
Many may object, but I assure you this is the best way we can get the ball rolling.
Instead of avoiding gamergate, I will reason with them and atleast try to get some of the good apples to support this.

>Attempting to reason with 8Chan

Good luck with that.

Yeah, tough call.
Hopefully I'm not shuffling back with arrows in my back, falling over bleeding saying "I've failed."

 

[Nikolaz72]

For me to support any other movement than #Gamergate it'd have to be a neutral one that keeps focused on the ethics and integrity issues, never even discussing feminism because that's not part of the narrative. Not going to join a movement that buys into the biased media smear-campaign because in the end, the neutral movement would be about opposing that exact media.

Just saying that if it ever caught wind and it actually posed a danger to the media narrative they'd just condemn it of consisting og Gamergaters (Which it would at large if it ended up being large enough to be significant) and dismiss it as being mysogynistic. There is no win here unless you have an iron-strong (Prefferably popular on both sides) neutral party starting it. Like TB, or Boogie.

That's all. I'm not at all opposed to this as long as it's neutral and not anti-feminist/anti-gamergate.

 

[ALIENwolve]

Whatever. If you think it can get anything done, I'll be there.

Although the batboy hashtag is kind of derp. Not that I have any constructive suggestions at the moment, though.

 

[Thidran]

Piping in because this particular debate is a waste of time. It will live or die with gamergate. We've already changed tags and they levied the same charges. Same as they'll do with any new tags to put it as plainly as possible. That alone should tell you why it is a bad idea. It makes zero difference.

 

[ZiggyE]

GamerGate's name isn't the issue, it will be continued to be slandered by the very journalists it goes after as they try to cover up their blatant ethics violations. Any new name will just become the GamerGate 2.0 and you'll have people like Sarkeesian tweeting "Don't be fooled, X is just the new GamerGate".

Furthermore, GamerGate has already gained a lot of press and a lot of publicity, good and bad, and is popular. Any new tag will be less popular for some time, which will draw momentum away from the movement.

Any attempt to change the name will cause a drive between the people who want to change and who don't want to change, splitting the movement and ultimately weakening it. This is probably the goal of people who suggest a name change, as I see no one from within GamerGate suggesting a change, only those from outside GamerGate, who suggest the term is unsalvagable, which clearly isn't the case as GamerGate gets more and more support with each passing day.

So no, the name will not be changed. Stop trying to get us to change it.

EDIT: In addition, this did not merit an additional thread. You could've suggested your idea in the mega-thread. Spamming off-topic with GamerGate related threads is not doing anyone any favours. Your opinion is not so special that it merits a new thread.

 

[MerlinCross]

It's a decent idea at the least. Because we've been allowed to discuss it we have the mega thread that keeps getting pointed out and a lot of people talking for and against it. I think if you get enough people to actually sit down and talk it out you might get something rolling.

Be cheering for you to at least create space where we can talk.

 

[MorphBallBomb]

If GamerGate fails. wait a few months, then try this. I will be right behind you, because I am involved in GamerGate due to ethics concerns.

As for strange bedfellows, anon culture/chan culture was an instrumental progenitor for the momentum and tactics of the revolt. If you can't deal with people with a variety of potentially "toxic" points of view (who aren't sending death threats or harassing people) you will fail.

GamerGate has survived as a dysfunctional band of dissonant, pissed off consumers with only one attitude in common: fuck the corrupt gaming press.

If you can be more inclusive than a group full of libertarians, conservatives, liberals, SJWs, MRAs, furries, otherkin, homosexuals, transexuals, atheists, Christians, Jews [Jewish people? what's correct here?], PoC, conspiracy theorists, assholes, nice folk, channers, etc. then you can surpass GamerGate's success.

If you use a hashtag at all, you are vulnerable to the same games that have given GamerGate a bad name.

If you self-select for ideological purity, you will watch your movement eat itself alive.

I think you should join us. We have some weirdos for sure, but if you try to exclude them, you'll never get anybody.
and if you come up with a troll-filter, holy shit let me know.

 

[deathpainter2000]

My question is how do you propose to get the games media to actually update their ethics policy and stick to it? My goal in gamergate has always been to have all of these website implement a standard journalistic ethics policy like this one http://www.nytco.com/who-we-are/culture/standards-and-ethics/

How do you plan on getting these website to update and more importantly follow such a set of guidelines? We don't know the contracts the AAA industry make them sign, we don't know what kind of goodies they send along with their review copies, we don't know what kind of benefits they are getting when publishers fly out the journalists and wine and dine them. So how do you plan on getting rid of these practices? And what is your plan when they inevitably say "NO". Do you plan on doing a letter writing campaign similar to ODN, or a silent boycott? I guess my question is what do you do when negotiations fall apart? And how do you plan on finding out when they are breaking the ethics policies if they are all willing to keep quiet about their own doings?

I'm not asking this to be antagonistic, I really am curious on what your plan is.

 

[Mahemium]

Nah. I'm hoping for Milo's prediction for the GamerGate end game where new media outlets form to supply the demand of gamers who don't care what genitals the protagonists of the new Assassins Creed or Grand Theft Auto games have and don't tell the consumers that they should care. Media outlets that don't signal boost critique videos with fallacious arguments that the consumers don't agree with, but are told they should. Media outlets that don't call some sensationalist garbage stories "news", but other sensationalist garbage stories "private affairs".

It's no skin off my nose if existing outlets don't change policy as long as alternatives arise out of the mess.