Poll: Is Not Dating a Certain Race Racist?

runic knight

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Fenrox Jackson said:
So here is the funny thing here! Preference is not what you think it is. Lemme ask you something, were you born with the ability to do math? Or did you learn it? For whatever reason, when it comes to something that isn't tangible people make it sacred. If your preference is for white guys, then in reality your brain has been fed supportive and reflective ideals for white people (even if you aren't white), and if your preference even goes as far as to say "I just don't find black people attractive" what that is all about is that you haven't worked that pool of resources enough.

If you fill up pot a with happy white people and you trinkle in an occasional black dude into pot b, then you will prefer pot a. So, without your real control (This is where a lot of racist people freak out, thinking people are blaming them for something out of their control, well tough, we all do it and the good ones fix the problem) you developed your preferences, meaning you are racist, but not in a real and meaningful way!

To get over this just find black people attractive! It's super easy! Find people that share interests, force yourself to get familiar with a black sex symbol, once you get it started it just snowballs. Then, THEN, you can finally be a cool guy!! Someone who doesn't see or really care about race! Now you can still be a total racist if you want but at least your stupid racist brain will stop making you racist without your permission.
I know you don't mean it this way and that is why I feel the need to point this out here, so you realize how what you said comes off.

To get over this just find women attractive! It's super easy! Find women that share interests, force yourself to get familiar with a female sex symbol, once you get it started it just snowballs. Then, THEN, you can finally be a cool guy!! Someone who doesn't see or really care about gender! Now you can still be a total sexist if you want but at least your stupid sexist brain will stop making you sexist without your permission.
Who you are attracted to is not simply nurture. There are biological aspects that play on what traits people find attractive, as well as social and cultural pressures. When all put together, you can easily get quirks for or against various traits, up to and including traits that are nearly exclusive in some races but not others(natural hair color) or up to even ones that define the race (such as skin color).

What you try to explain here sounds exactly like the same misunderstanding of things that has homophobics telling people they can learn to not be attracted to others of their own gender. It is not so simple and you really insult everyone here trying to present it as such.
 

WarpZone

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mrblakemiller said:
Not according to any of these definitions of "racism": http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism Unless you do something ridiculous like claim that "datability by is a human trait!"

As for whether or not it's discrimination, that's a little fuzzier, but only slightly: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/discrimination If you considered me not wanting to date you "unfair," then you could make an argument that it's discrimination.

Keep in mind that if you do use either definition to support the argument that not dating someone of a certian race is racism, then logically you must also believe that not dating someone of any particular sex is sexist, that not dating someone a lot older than you is ageist, etc.

And, as always, "if you ignore the dictionary definitions and just make up your own, then of course you are right and I am an idiot."

However: Keep in mind that romance, sex and love are not subjects that human beings are particularly good at being rational about, and that racism is an incredibly touchy subject. Anyone involved in a conversation about race OR sexuality is bound to bring tons of baggage and emotion into the conversation with them, and the G.I.F.T. amplifies this.

Interestingly enough, it appears that all human affection is covered under one of the definitions of prejudiced: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prejudiced "having a feeling or like or dislike for something or someone." That could cover friggin' every emotion you've ever had, no matter how justified. However, keep in mind that this is a distinct defintion from the first definition, which is "having or showing an unfair feeling of dislike for a person or group because of race, sex, religion, etc." Hence, if you use the word "prejudice" to mean the second definition, it's not the bad thing we all think of when we hear the word "prejudice."

(In fact, I am going to go out on a limb and recommend that you do NOT use the word prejudice to mean the second definition, ever, unless you are deliberately trying to sow confusion and pick a fight. I'm no linguist, but it's pretty obviously an archaic definition of the word that nobody actually uses anymore.)

In short: If trolling was your intent all along, then well-played, sir. If you're seriously asking, the Dictionary says no. But I don't expect that to carry much weight in a conversation between a known racist, a girl he snubbed, and the entire freaking internet.
 

Joos

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The result of the poll looks better than the posts in this thread reflects. Next week we'll return with the PC-crowd favorite "is it homophobic not to date gay people?" Stay tuned.
 

Breccia

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Merriam-Webster defines "racist" as "a person who believes that one race should control all others ". Hmm. Didn't know that was the definition. So I guess...no?

Let's see, in related words it has "bigot". The definition of bigot is "a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc. : a bigoted person; especially : a person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular group (such as a racial or religious group)" Hmm. Does "not wanting to date them" count as "strongly"? I'm not sure it does.

Let's try "prejudice". It says "an unfair feeling of dislike for a person or group because of race, sex, religion, etc." I think that's closest.

Formal definitions aside, is what you're doing discriminatory and unfair? Yes. I think the biggest test comes to if you're willing to admit it in public. Generally speaking people don't want to publicly admit to doing something they think is wrong. If a, say, hispanic lady asked you out, would you say, to her face, "I don't want to date anyone outside of my race"? If the answer is no...
 

BloatedGuppy

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Joos said:
The result of the poll looks better than the posts in this thread reflects.
That's because the poll question does not actually reflect the question in the OP.

And the question in the OP does not actually reflect the situation the OP used as an example.

Half the people in this thread are discussing either the scenario posited by the OP, or the actual scenario he's referencing. Other people are just popping in, looking at the poll question, saying "DUH OF COURSE NOT", slamming the middle option and leaving.

And of course it helps LOADS that options 1 and 3 are cut off and confusing (go-go Escapist polls), whereas option 2 is actually legible.
 

ugeine

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Joos said:
The result of the poll looks better than the posts in this thread reflects. Next week we'll return with the PC-crowd favorite "is it homophobic not to date gay people?" Stay tuned.

Can't see how that's even vaguely similar, unless you think hetrosexual means 'a person who only dates white people.'

That's be an interesting sexual identity. Caucasianosexual?
 

ugeine

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Just realised there's a good chance you were taking the piss and I missed that. Oops.
 

runic knight

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Fenrox Jackson said:
runic knight said:
Who you are attracted to is not simply nurture. There are biological aspects that play on what traits people find attractive, as well as social and cultural pressures. When all put together, you can easily get quirks for or against various traits, up to and including traits that are nearly exclusive in some races but not others(natural hair color) or up to even ones that define the race (such as skin color).

What you try to explain here sounds exactly like the same misunderstanding of things that has homophobics telling people they can learn to not be attracted to others of their own gender. It is not so simple and you really insult everyone here trying to present it as such.
K, so which ones are immutable? Also what and how buddy? What biological thing excuses racism? My snipe muscle? I am gay (That is a biological thing) and while you are 100% right that gay conversion therapy is a total load, expanding your tastes to include different colors of the thing you like is in no way the same. It's like saying that a red car is super cool but a blue car? I JUST DON'T LIKE IT AND I CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT I'M NOT RACIST!

People just love writing things off, oh I don't think black guys are hot because... im not into muscles, I like straight hair, we just don't have anything in common... it's just a bunch of excuses you come up with to write the situation off as "out of your control/not my problem". Well toooo bad!you can control your attraction to the effect of growing it. I mean, look at your own life, did anything used to disgust or turn you off that now you tolerate or love? YOU CAN CHANGE IT, YOU CAN MAKE IT BETTER. It's not reinventing the wheel or deceiving yourself to the point of mental break, it's just challenging yourself to get better.

I know as a kid I "just wasn't into black guys" until I did something about that, now im into pretty much all guys. All I did was the same thing I did when I first learned about attraction when I was like 12, just think about black guys. Remove the mystery, bridge the false gap!
The point of comparison is in attraction, that you can not force yourself to be attracted to someone, be it because they do not appeal to your sexual preference in gender or in other traits. I am not saying there is a biological justification for racism itself (that of thinking one race is better or worse solely for being a different race), merely that because of biological consistencies within races (hair, skin color), you may run into a situation where not finding some traits attractive (like, say for instance you just never find natural dark hair attractive, or people with it) that would, because of consistencies within the race remove the entire race as possible (which would include people of african ethnic origin if naturally dark hair is not attractive.)

You seem to keep misconstruing attraction and desire with tolerance, acceptance or even enjoyment of. There is a difference you have to be aware. What you try to use here can be turned on its head to homosexuality, which alone should be a warning sign to you, as I tried to explain before. There are traits people are biologically coded to notice, as well as ones inherent due to society. When the two combine to influence people as they develop, you may get something like "I am not attracted to darker tones of skins" or "I am not attracted to dark color hair". And yes, saying "you can change that" is as incorrect as saying "homosexuals can learn to be attracted to women". Because at that point, you are dismissing personal attraction in order to fit a societal ideal of what they should feel rather then what they do. As odd as that may be, it is perfectly normal to not be attracted to some traits. Keep in mind not feeling attraction does not mean they are lesser. I don't feel attraction to half of the population solely because of gender, that does not mean I think I am better or they are lesser, merely I accept I feel no attraction there.
Also, there is the aspect you overlook here. Skin color, hair color and the like do not alone define a race, though can be traits massively predominant to some races. If someone is not attracted to dark color skin, you would easily assume they are not attracted to blacks, which would be correct. But it would not be done because they are of the black race, rather, because the vast majority of blacks have dark skin. Sometimes you may get a Jackson effect going on, or you may get people who overtan or dye their skin darker, and possibility for attraction would respond according to the trait, not the race as well.

To put is more simply.
If they are not attracted because of traits common among some races, but not because of said races themselves, they are not racist.
If they dislike or will not date because of race itself, they are.
 

Fireaxe

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Breccia said:
Let's try "prejudice". It says "an unfair feeling of dislike for a person or group because of race, sex, religion, etc." I think that's closest.
Not wanting to date someone is not the same as an unfair feeling of dislike, especially if you just don't find them attractive. It doesn't mean you think they're bad people, it means you're not physically attracted to them.


Breccia said:
Formal definitions aside, is what you're doing discriminatory and unfair? Yes. I think the biggest test comes to if you're willing to admit it in public. Generally speaking people don't want to publicly admit to doing something they think is wrong. If a, say, hispanic lady asked you out, would you say, to her face, "I don't want to date anyone outside of my race"? If the answer is no...
Would you tell someone you don't want to date them because you think they're ugly, crazy, or whatever other reason you might have?

Personally I wouldn't want to explain my reasons regardless of what they were.
 

Breccia

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Fireaxe said:
Not wanting to date someone is not the same as an unfair feeling of dislike, especially if you just don't find them attractive. It doesn't mean you think they're bad people, it means you're not physically attracted to them.
"Prejudiced" might not be the right word, no, but is still far closer to the situation than either "bigot" or "racist". If you read the definitions of the other two terms, you'd see it was a pretty dramatic difference between those three. Think of it as the difference between a traffic ticket, a misdemeanor, and a felony. They're all illegal, but in drastically different shades. Maybe you don't think that this should be "illegal" to continue that analogy, but my point was, it's nowhere near the level of being bigoted or racist, thereby addressing the OP's original question.

Fireaxe said:
Would you tell someone you don't want to date them because you think they're ugly, crazy, or whatever other reason you might have?
It dramatically depends on the reason. If I didn't want to date someone only because of their physical appearance, yes, I'd be as embarrassed as hell to say that, because I don't think that's a good enough reason. Other people disagree, and say things like "I don't feel that chemistry" or other ways of putting it delicately but still being honest about the situation. If I thought they were too crazy to date, yes, I have in fact had to say exactly that once to her face. Yeah it was awkward as hell, but it needed to be clear, rather than "I'm not looking right now" which is an invitation to Stalkerville. If she had been, say, a convicted drug dealer, or abused her dog, I would have used those reasons and not felt bad about it. While the rule "if you think it was the right thing to do, you would admit to it" doesn't cover everything, it covers a lot, and I think this situation is one of those times.
 

Joos

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ugeine said:
Just realised there's a good chance you were taking the piss and I missed that. Oops.
Good to see you are not completely irony-deficient.
 

mecegirl

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Fireaxe said:
Well what I originally got into this thread about was someone saying having a different post for Black women was inherently racist; I took issue with this for 2 reasons

1) If someone prefers black women, they're going to be scrolling past a lot of a generic "Hottest Chicks" thread to find them (as most posters will probably post white women).
2) I see no problem breaking pictures of women (or men, or cats, or dogs, or whatever else) into categories.
None of that has to do with what actually happened though. No one was saying that it was inherently racist. But in the context of what happened it was. Why debate something that no one was talking about?

For your examples it isn't uncommon for non White people to be attracted to White people. Even ones that grew up in majority non White communities. Of course we have the media to thank for that. It's not hard to consider something attractive when your society puts it on a pedestal. So your inverted example isn't really convincing.

And since anyone can post anything why wouldn't those who would want to see non White women just post non white women?

Fireaxe said:
By that logic, it's valid to post pretty much any woman in a hottest chicks thread, but that kind of defeats the purpose of having a thread full of women generally agreed to be attracted.
As I said before someone not being your type does not equal them being unattractive. It takes a lot for someone to be ugly. Really it does. And since attraction is subjective it would be almost impossible for a diverse group of people to agree on who is attractive. So no one would be posted at all. Pick a well known actress, singer, or model. Most of them are considered attractive. Sure someone may not be the biggest fan of Christina Hendricks. They may prefer a woman who is a size 0-2. The may not like the combination of pale skin and red hair. They may not like her butt chin, or think that her breasts are too large (no lie I have heard all of these criticisms about her). But she isn't ugly. By the same token someone may not be the biggest fan of Janelle Monae. They don't like darker skin tones. Or they don't like how she dresses/how she does her hair. But she isn't ugly. Both women would be just fine to post in a "Hottest Chicks" thread. Folks could debate about why either women isn't attractive to them but it really wouldn't do any good...Better to just post a girl that you think looks better.

Besides, even in a thread dedicated to one type of person not everyone is gonna be attracted to all entries in that tread. Just because a person is only attracted to White women does not mean that they will find Emma Stone as attractive as Candice Swanepoel and both of those woman could be posted in a thread about attractive women.


Fireaxe said:
So maybe they should've just had the original thread renamed "Hottest white chicks" -- which, if we're being honest, on the majority of English speaking internet forums *is* probably what the average male user is thinking about when they think "hottest chicks" in the sense of an ideal (given the majority of internet users that speak English are white men, and white men generally find the ideal to be white women).

Not that I disagree that these people loudly complaining about non-white women in an thread not marked as being for white women were probably at best arseholes and at worst racist arseholes.
I doubt that it is possible to prove that the majority of English speaking internet uses are white men..considering that White women use the internet, that non White English speaking people use the internet, and that plenty of people who do not speak English as a first language but learn it for business use the internet. Yeah... There are probably more of "us" than "you". So I believe that you mean that it is more probable to find a majority of English speaking White men on a website about video games.

Yes, they should have had the original thread renamed if that is what they wanted. They may have not wanted to do it because they did not want to seem racist, but honesty is always the best policy. If that is what they wanted nothing was stopping them from getting it. As it was, there were plenty of White women posted in the tread, so it wasn't as if they would be left wanting for women they felt were attractive. And well, it wasn't as if everyone in the thread wanted to have separate threads. Majority ruled that it wasn't really necessary.


Fireaxe said:
Actually, given it just comes down to preference, it is pretty much the same thing; some things are either attractive or not -- really doesn't matter if it's genetic or not (which is why, incidentally, you won't see many women with a shaved head in such topics either).

It's worth considering that a judgement of "not attractive to me" based on race (or piercing, or hair, or tattooing) isn't the same as a negative judgement about a person as a person based on the same.
That would be great if all "categories" were treated the same by society when it comes to who is or isn't attractive. As it is they are not. White women are not treated like some special fetish in the Western world, other races of women are.
 

Dogstile

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This actually got to 15 pages? How is it hard to grasp that other races of people have generally different features that you may or may not be attracted to?
 

greatcheezer2021

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i think its partial to how a person looks, behaves, and your personal/physical/physiological attraction. if there is something you like about this person, and the color of their skin and culture happens to be different from yours, thats just other peoples problems. not yours. unless you really like this person, i dont think you would really be dating them, unless of course. . .
 
Sep 14, 2009
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DANGER- MUST SILENCE said:
runic knight said:
Who you are attracted to is not simply nurture. There are biological aspects that play on what traits people find attractive, as well as social and cultural pressures.
When it comes to sexual orientation, you are right. In fact I'd say the vast majority of the influence is biological. People don't learn to be gay.

When it comes to racial preferences, you are 100% wrong. There are no biological aspects.

Many, many people in this thread have claimed racial preference to be biological like sexual orientation. Not a single person has offered up even a logical argument for what part of the body this supposed biology-based dis-attraction to certain races might exist in. Because it doesn't exist. It's just an excuse for people to throw up so they don't feel they need to examine their biases.
okay I don't want to make any assumptions on your opinion and would just like to see it thoroughly, so i'm going to list some things and you can tear it apart or agree with it as you please. (if you even want to respond)

Depending on if a dudes dick goes up or down based off of:
hair color/eyes/body shape(including boob size)/skin color

is that is all learned and not biological?

Also i don't think people literally throw up, they just don't personally prefer/like it in a sexual way is all.
 
Sep 14, 2009
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DANGER- MUST SILENCE said:
gmaverick019 said:
Depending on if a dudes dick goes up or down based off of:
hair color/eyes/body shape(including boob size)/skin color

is that is all learned and not biological?
Yes. It may be learned subconsciously, but it is learned through cultural immersion and personal experience. One need only look at how people from different cultures react very differently to different body types to see that this is so. In Edo period Japan, a hot woman didn't have much in the way of curves- in fact part of the design of the kimono was to hide a woman's curves and make them look like a straight line from top to bottom. I've seen risque magazines from the 1960's in Japan people are praising as the height of allure a rear-shot of a Japanese woman with literally no butt at all. But the moment Japanese people started importing western culture, suddenly great stonking tits and curves that don't stop became what drove the men wild.

Also i don't think people literally throw up, they just don't personally prefer/like it in a sexual way is all.
I used "throw up" as in "make an excuse", not "vomiting".
ehh...but it is still involuntary, i personally will attest what gets me as stiff as a log down there i have zero control over (hence morning wood being strong enough to hold up a fucking roof). I can't believe that it is 100% learned immersion, i have plenty of friends who have massively different preferences, including skin color, and we are all of different skin colors ourselves, yet we all grew up in the same area, same cultural aspects, and were all exposed to these things at the same age/times (we've been close friends going on 16 years now, and before that we were just kids that didn't even go to school yet to even be exposed to anything)

i'm not saying that cultural aspects (especially depending on how strong communities are, as you pointed to japan, who has/had "over 9000" levels of community strength) don't influence things or can't, but I think it is a bit ignorant to assume it is all learned and not something you just decide upon yourself with no outside bearings or are born with.

plus, if you were put in a gun to head split second decision, i would think the majority (a high majority) would have a preference on just about everything, which makes nearly everyone biased in some manner (yes it's nitpicking, but if you have any slight preference at all, then you're on the same side of the fence as plenty of us.)
 

Tanis

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Aug 30, 2010
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I'll just C/E/P what I posted in another thread...

How it is racist?
If you don't want to bang someone because you don't find features that are common to a particular ethnicity, that's your business.
If you don't want to bang someone because you don't find them to be your equal, due to their ethnicity, that's racist.

I'm white/native-american and I don't like white girls or Native-Americans that much.
I'd rather date someone who's Asian or Hispanic.
-Or half-white/half Asian because, gawd yes, I have know some REALLY REALLY hot chicks that were...yowza!

Does that make me a racist?
NO.
It just means my PERSONAL PREFERENCES are towards features that tend to be more common in certain racial groups.

Not to say that I never have/wouldn't dated white girls, just saying I'd rather date Asian or Hispanic (or even mixed-raced).

Because, let's face it, a great personality can only go so far.

If I can't look the girl in the eyes, because her face is so ugly I want to put a paper bag over her head every time we talk...
Then the relationship probably isn't going to last that long.



You people with your 'white guilt' are REALLY getting annoying.