Poll: Is this fair? a question of creepy porn

[Summerstorm]

Victim-based crime deserves punishment.

Prevention of such crime deserves rehabilitation.

There is no victim here, so he does not deserve to go to jail for the pictures alone.

Even if the pictures themselves may not deserve jailtime in the eyes of many, are we to assume that his urges have been victimless simply because a victim has not yet been presented? Even if it has been victimless so far, that could be only because he hasn't had a chance to do what his vexed desires drive him to do. Are we to leave a potential wolf to the sheep?

YES WE ARE... You can NEVER know what one is thinking. What he MIGHT do in the future or not, based on observations of portions of his personality. Really and he is ONE step away from raping children? Everyone who wrote that here (a lot) is... grrrr.... unbelievable.

So you have just accused pretty much all of the people in this forum from beeing one step away to shoot people with guns in the face. They clearly simulate to do so as a hobby. You accused all muslims to have the innate need to blow themselves up. (Hey it happened) People who listened to songs about war, or crime, or love? INTO the jails with the scum? They will all murder and rape their way through the land CLEARLY in a year or so.

Punishment follows a deed. And yes laws should only be suggestions, guidelines for a mercyful, intelligent and fair trial or even judgement beforehand (The police should make sure he has no children locked in the basement, apologize and LEAVE). People who follow laws to the letter are idiots. Really... what a stupid world we live in... RANT OVER, I GO SLEEP NOW.

 

[zipzi]

no real childs were harmed, i say being a pervert should be allowed, just give him a small fine

 

[Sindre1]

Sure it is sick, but they are only drawings. Not actually illegal, is it?

 

[Xanadu84]

I suspect that it is an inborn problem with this guy. If he abused children, jail. If it was pictures of real kids being abused, jail (Even if they are just pictures, child pornography requires real kids having sexually explicit stuff happening to them to be photographed, and having them distributed to you encourages that behavior.) Doesn't matter if he was forced to commit the act by his implses, that doesn't negate the need for retribution as part of a working society. But hand drawn pictures, from a place where it is more tolerated...That's pretty fuzzy. Arguably, this guy was unfairly saddled with an inborn defect, and has discovered a way to deal with it without hurting anyone. The only concern I have is the risk he poses of going beyond his current approach. So I think the appropriate response is mandatory, court ordered counciling.

After all, the main reason Child Pornography is outlawed is because it is generally accepted that it requires children to do pornographic things.

 

[Nimbus]

Victim-based crime deserves punishment.

Prevention of such crime deserves rehabilitation.

There is no victim here, so he does not deserve to go to jail for the pictures alone.

Even if the pictures themselves may not deserve jailtime in the eyes of many, are we to assume that his urges have been victimless simply because a victim has not yet been presented? Even if it has been victimless so far, that could be only because he hasn't had a chance to do what his vexed desires drive him to do. Are we to leave a potential wolf to the sheep?

So you are saying that he should go to jail because he might have raped a child? Even though there is no evidence whatsoever?

 

[Serious_Stalin]

No way he should get sentenced for that. I think that paedophiles don't make a decision to be attracted to children, they just are which is terrible for everyone really... The fact he is looking at pictures is proof nobody got harmed because of his abnormal urges. If it was real child porn it would be a completely different case since somebody actually got harmed in the production of his hard on..

 

[tehweave]

Well, they are pictures of children getting abused, and yes, that is sick... But... They're "DRAWINGS" not actual pictures, not actual PEOPLE, just drawings. Frankly, I'm surprised that we can prosecute people for owning sketches of bad things.

What if he were to draw a stick figure with boobs and plaster the number 12 on it? Would he go to jail for drawing underage nudity? Does anyone else think this is a bit harsh?

 

[Nmil-ek]

Well, watching lolicon on the web is atleast harmless, but shipping comics? that's when it starts getting wrong, still it's just drawings, no need to arrest him.

The weird thing is that child abuse in paintings, whouldn't it make some great works illegal despite being drawn hundreads of years ago? And how should the police handle with things like elfen lied which is child abuse and lolicon of the worst kind?

Thats exactly the thing its art censorship which will never ever work, its one of the greatest infringements on freedom possible art does not effect the physical world in anyway therefore laws that act as if it does so are frankly stupid. There are hundreds of great works that depict things like torture, rape, war, beastiality. Pictures and videos I completley understand they are within the realms of reality but whats next we have the venus demilo wear a shirt?

It gets to the point where sooner or later if something offends someone or if its seen as bad its illegal, archaic laws made by scared old men likley influenced by archaic scriptures in my eyes.

 

[fenrizz]

There are times when empathy needs to be thrown out of the window. This however, is not necessarily one of those times.

Let's just flick perspective for a moment, shall we? Let's say he was gay. And gay porn - between adults - was found on his computer, in a country where homosexuality was declared illegal. Would 15 years be fair there? Of course not. Why? Because that is the way he is, he cannot help his sexuality and it does not harm anyone.

And oddly enough, that last sentence applies to this situation too! People don't choose to be paedophiles. Can people not understand that? God knows what it must be like to live with that kind of monster living inside you. But this guy, despite his urges - and God knows he's better at limiting his urges than most people seem to be - only allows himself methods that don't hurt anyone. Now, the moment he gives into those urges and sexually abuses a minor - then we can throw empathy out of the window. But until then he needs help fighting his own nature, not jail time. In fact ostracising probably makes the situation worse.

^This

 

[Uszi]

My Uncle is actually a cop that goes on the internet and pretends to be a 14 year old girl (or whatever else) most large cities and counties have at least a small division that does just this sort of thing. Iowa has a couple towns that number about a 80,000-200,000 people. I assure you that if they have a department of this type they will know exactly what you're talking about.

Also

the federal government ICE (immigration and customs enforcement) is who arrested Mr. Handley.

I happen to have lived in Cedar Rapids, IA for 6 years, so I know what is and is not there.

My point was that the person I quoted said, "Well, it's true there is a style of porn where people are drawn like they are younger but are supposed to be much older, but this was different: these were people drawn to be young."

My reply to that person was simply that I doubt anyone without the esoteric knowledge of various hentai porn genre's would not know which is which and would see it all the same. If there even is a difference--my view point would be that there is not.

So you can't argue he had particularly bad Hentai kiddie porn without arguing that all hentai kiddie porn is bad, especially to those rural Iowans.

 

[ace_of_something]

My Uncle is actually a cop that goes on the internet and pretends to be a 14 year old girl (or whatever else) most large cities and counties have at least a small division that does just this sort of thing. Iowa has a couple towns that number about a 80,000-200,000 people. I assure you that if they have a department of this type they will know exactly what you're talking about.

Also

the federal government ICE (immigration and customs enforcement) is who arrested Mr. Handley.

I happen to have lived in Cedar Rapids, IA for 6 years, so I know what is and is not there.

My point was that the person I quoted said, "Well, it's true there is a style of porn where people are drawn like they are younger but are supposed to be much older, but this was different: these were people drawn to be young."

My reply to that person was simply that I doubt anyone without the esoteric knowledge of various hentai porn genre's would not know which is which and would see it all the same. If there even is a difference--my view point would be that there is not.

So you can't argue he had particularly bad Hentai kiddie porn without arguing that all hentai kiddie porn is bad, especially to those rural Iowans.

Okay, I see what you're getting at here. But I bet you it WAS researched in some form first. That's usually required on this sort of thing.

 

[Amplify]

There are times when empathy needs to be thrown out of the window. This however, is not necessarily one of those times.

Let's just flick perspective for a moment, shall we? Let's say he was gay. And gay porn - between adults - was found on his computer, in a country where homosexuality was declared illegal. Would 15 years be fair there? Of course not. Why? Because that is the way he is, he cannot help his sexuality and it does not harm anyone.

And oddly enough, that last sentence applies to this situation too! People don't choose to be paedophiles. Can people not understand that? God knows what it must be like to live with that kind of monster living inside you. But this guy, despite his urges - and God knows he's better at limiting his urges than most people seem to be - only allows himself methods that don't hurt anyone. Now, the moment he gives into those urges and sexually abuses a minor - then we can throw empathy out of the window. But until then he needs help fighting his own nature, not jail time. In fact ostracising probably makes the situation worse.

I'm glad some people (including yourself) have some sense in this thread.

Some of you keep arguing that he "might" go out and molest a child, this argument is terribly flawed.

Has nobody ever angered you to the point of wanting to wring their neck? I'd assume so, chances are somebody is going to make you angry in your life, but are you going to go out and murder them? No? That's because you have a little thing called "morals".

I would assume there are plenty of people out there who don't go murdering, they control themselves, just as I would assume there are plenty of people out there who don't go out kiddy fiddling despite possessing hentai involving kids possibly in rape situations or otherwise, it's a line yes, but it's a pretty wide line between thinking something, and actually DOING it.

 

[CapnCJ]

If you're found to own a copy of Saw on DVD, should you be sent to prison as if you've gone around chopping people up?

This guy is a freak, but that's no reason to jail him, he isn't hurting anybody.

 

[Argentavis]

So they basically felt the rights of a fictional child were violated, they sent a real guy to jail?
Well, the guy wasn't all that good either. Why buying a loli doujin, when you can download it off the internets? Easier to use, easier to hide, the feds don't find out...

Also, I echo those who say it doesn't stimulate people to have sex with minors. Watching violent films now makes you a violent person? No.

 

[Uszi]

I hate to big the fuckhead to who points out the obvious, but are you actually saying it's alright to own drawn child pornography on your computer? If so, you can get the fuck out of my future island of New Wales.

No, I'm not saying it's okay, but then we're not discussing whether or not it's "ok" we're discussing whether or not he should be jailed based on child pornography laws.

Do I think we should use rules designed to protect children to incarcerate perverts? No. If you have a law against empowering you to incarcerate people with habits you disagree with, then fine, arrest whoever you want. Feel free to jail the sodomites and masturbators as well. Hell, maybe you don't like smoking -- Jail them too! Go pilgrim-crazy like you just got off the Mayflower and found a den of witches.

And to all those replying to my comment about it being close to actually having sex with a child by saying stuff like "OMGZ THT MEANS U THNK VIDEO GMES ARE CLOSE TO KILLING SOME1 LOLOLOL", may I kindly point you to the nearest "GTFO" booth?

I wonder what such a boof would do...

To replying[sic] to your question, I would have to bury your face in some proof. How much of a percentage of people kill others because they play video games?

Now put that in contrast to the ammount[sic] of people that rape or molest a child and have at one point owned some child pornography.

If by "proof" you mean, "your vapid opinion devoid of citation," then my face does indeed feel buried. But the equivalent counter argument, due to your lack of citations, is "NUH-UH! Your momma they do!"

Please send any complaints to my PM box. Fighting like schoolkids on a forum isn't my idea of fun, because you'll just make the both of us look like dickheads.

We weren't fighting like school kids, until you came in and started telling people to get the fuck off of this or get the fuck off of that.

You're the one who sounds like a dick head. Even more so because you quoted me and then address issues I NEVER MENTIONED, like the video game points. At least orient your opinion in the proper direction.

Don't misquote me, swear at me, and then tell me I am immature.