Poll: ME3 - Aren't You Guys Rather Embarressed?

[longboardfan]

No its good because for the first time ever I'm not in the minority of gamers that give a crap about the STORY. The problem isn't the game, its the STORY that sucks and needs fixing. We might, and I pray for this. We might actually see better writing in games.

 

[Yopaz]

Saying something you believe is the truth isn't a lie just because it's wrong. You may call this broken promises or false advertisement, but in the end it's just failure to deliver on the hype of a game. If they felt that the ending was good and they thought that it wouldn't leave unresolved matters then well, they were wrong, but if they believed it when they said it, is it a lie because you disagree? If I say Superman 64 is a great game is that a lie because everyone disagrees?

Think to yourself, is this really a bunch of lies and broken promises or just a game that didn't live up to hype?

It's lies.

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10056886

I don't want to copy and paste those individually again. Read those real fast. (At least a few of the short ones.)

It's really a bunch of lies. It's like Superman 64 marketing saying "Making a game with mostly flying through rings would be ridiculous, we wouldn't do that to our players."

Yes, I have seen that thing before I made my previous post. However if you read my post I said that failure to live up to your promises isn't a lie.

The law says otherwise when trying to sell a product.

You as a fan don't think they managed to do what they had promised. However do you got anything to suggest that they know they didn't live up to their promises beforehand?

"This story arc is coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At this point we?re taking into account so many decisions that you?ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It?s not even in any way like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C." -Casey Hudson
Source:http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/01/10/mass1525-effect-3-cas5ey-fdsafdhudson-interviewae.aspx

That interview happened when the game was going through certification. The game was done. A lot of these interviews were done in at this point because before that was crunch time. A few were even just a couple weeks away from the game being released. Before certification time would have been crunch time where there isn't time for interviews.

A false statement isn't a lie as long as you believe it. This is failure to please and failure to live up to the promises. If you really think that we aren't taking this ending too far, let me know how many people died because they failed to please. They made a disappointing ending move along, it's not the end of the world.

Haha, no it isn't the end of the world. It's just an unethical business practice that is well within consumer rights to want repercussions for such an action. I wanted Shepard to die in the end, I expected him to. I don't see a problem with a happy ending but I thought it would be more interesting to see what would happen if he died in the battle personally. But I don't get to see that, I get to see either a random mash up of unexplained events or his last dream. I don't really know which it is. But I digress, because it isn't important to you how much of a game's ending was gutted. Pathelogical liars can pass lie detector tests because they believe their lie at the time they are telling them. They are a type of sociopath. But we do distinguish them apart from other sociopaths as liars. Because that is what they are. The game was finished, they said the content was what it wasn't and that it wasn't what it is. It is a lie and if they believed it, they are sociopaths and should no longer be allowed to do interviews.

Sure, if you sell a faulty product believing it to be working OK and it turns out it doesn't and you get injured for it the one who sold it is responsible. However Mass Effect 3 is not a faulty product. If the story didn't end the way you want it, then that's subjective. A story with a poor ending and a car without working breaks can't really be compared by any law.

So here is where you're wrong. Their subjective statements about the game doesn't match your subjective statement of the game. That does not mean they told an objective lie. I think I'll leave it at that.

 

[Proverbial Jon]

Snippy snip!

Wow. That was the most eloquent and civilised debate I have ever had the pleasure to read. I suddenly feel really peaceful and calm, a nice change considering the rage this whole ending problem has brought to us fans.

Oh and the final Harry Potter book was 7 and not 5

OT: I, for one, am certainly not ashamed of the fan rage at large. I'm happy to count myself part of the angry mob, pitchfork and burning torch in hand.

This goes far beyond a simple bad ending, this is more than just poor writing. This is a matter of betrayal, not intentional on Bioware's part I'm sure, but fans have had their hearts broken nonetheless. This constant denial from Bioware doesn't help to mend the damage either. I don't think they realise just how passionate their fans are about Bioware as a dev team but they are sure as hell finding out now.

 

[mirage202]

Voted that it is worth fighting for.

As gamers we are the target market for all these companies, and as such we rely on them for providing our medium of entertainment. That does not mean that we should not have a voice, or a say on what happens. They make product, we consume product, if product is not up to scratch, we complain, as we damned well should.

While I can appreciate "Games are Art" argument from both sides (Gamers atleast), the big publishers are pushing this crap for tax reasons, NOT artistic integrity, and I feel for those who have swallowed the hype and PR lines whole.

That said, every "cause" will have its extremists, but will I personally let them make me feel guilt or shame for being a gamer? not a chance in hell, its the internet, it is full of bile, stupid and plenty more, normal people sit behind these posts, if some feel empowered to be E-Tough, so be it.

 

[Keava]

It's really not something You can answer by simple Yes or No, real world isn't binary.

Now as for my stance.

Video games are very specific medium that can't really be directly compared to movies of books. It's an interactive medium that people involve and invest themselves into on a much greater scale than it is the case with more traditional ones. It's also a medium that, despite the growth of so called "casual" market is still very dependent on a rather specific group of people that actually play all those "AAA" games. It's players who, even years later, are willing to improve and enhance the products that keep brands alive and in a way offer additional brand recognition for the original developer. Games like BroodWar, Elder Scrolls, Diablo, Counter Strike, Quake are still played, still relevant thanks to that investment from their "fanbases", not to mention all the community projects that later became fully fleshed out products (Team Fortress, L4D, DoTA). There is a lot more interaction between developer and customer than in any other medium.
Another thing is how underdeveloped gaming is. We don't really have any influential personas. Yahtzee, TotalBiscuit, Jim ... each of them only reaches to a small portion of overall gaming crowd. We don't have critics that the industry would really have to pay attention to, and gaming press every now and then shows lack of integrity across the board.

This all means that if we want decent quality in games, we are the ones that should stand up for it. If we are asked by studios to shell out 60$ for a product we should demand a product that meets certain standards rather than blindly buy into everything. The less people yell the more They enable big companies to get away with all sorts of crap and that doesn't benefit us nor the gaming in general in the long run. We should care for quality and be able to criticize companies we like whenever They do something wrong.

That said, however, some of the initiatives surrounding ME3 controversy went bit over board. Funny meme-pics are fine, Marauder Shields is fine, in many cases those were quite creative. There was plenty of actual, constructive criticism that no doubt is valuable.
Things like lawsuits, spamming every possible forum with cries of rage, or quite offensive comments however... that's just taking it step too far. It closes the possibility of dialogue between both sides and leads nowhere, benefiting no one.

TL;DR: Less pitchforks, more communication, from both sides, is a good way of making games better. We are the point where companies will be constantly poking and prodding to see how much they can get away with and it's our role to draw lines that shouldn't be crossed if we don't want to be seen as just naive bunch that will buy anything as long as it has shiny logo on it.

 

[surg3n]

I can realate a bit, not a big ME fan, but I am a big Lost fan. I'm actually watching for the third time now, and you know the worst thing about the ending to Lost, is that it overshadowed the 6th season, which is actually one of the best. So much is actually explained, and so much of it ties so neatly together and all that was instantly forgotten because some fans just didn't understand the ending... I mean how else could Lost end!

Anyway your displaying the same kinda reaction as I did at other peoples reactions, which is kinda the same problem as your complaining about. If you take one ME fan complaining about the ending, and add another dude complaining about the ME fan complaining, then all you have is 2 dudes complaining, they cancel eachother out. I just wish that videogame fans would behave a little more intelligently - we aren't teenage girls furfucksake, this isn't Twilight - and sorry to say it, but our opinions probably don't matter to anyone except ourselves. We have to accept the decisions made by developers and designers, we subscribed to hear the story they have come up with - if that story doesn't make our dreams come true, then we need to shorten our expectations, not go on a rant rampage that is frankly just embarassing. If you love something, accept it, or go onto something else - go play that Star Wars MMO if bitching about creators is your thing, leave single player games to those who can accept the conclusions. Being disappointed in a game ending is usually a good sign, it means that the other 99% of the game hit the spot. There are really crappy parts in all my favorite games and movies, there are crap songs on my favorite albums, we are not living in the Matrix, not everything can be perfect.

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

As he mentions, people were pretty upset about the ending to the Lost TV series. Or how George Lucas milked the Star Wars franchise for all its worth. But surely these aren't examples of the fans of the said medium showing sophistication, rather the latter, that in many ways people reacted pretty childish or overzealously?

So my question is - what is the difference? Are people within the gaming community going too far? Or is this really a serious issue for the gaming community and industry?

I truthfully don't know and the indecision itself is bothersome. You have a point about childish reactions that from outside must appear frivolous, and from inside are...what? I'm not sure, but you must acknowledge that the fact it is such an issue in itself speaks volumes about what people really think.

If a film ended badly, that's just the way it ends and there's little to be done for it. If a book ends badly, fans will write fanfic in droves to correct it. With a game, it's harder than with a book but not impossible like the movie.

I'll admit that I was vastly disappointed by the ending...if you haven't seen it for yourself, you won't really understand but to put you in our shoes...you played ME1 5 years ago, BioWare's first game on the current gen platform. We had a sci-fi RPG with their own IP and an evolved cinematic story telling experience (created in KotOR and refined in JE). And it was brilliant. The promise of our choices being ours made us all the more invested. I have multiple playthrus just because I wanted to see what would have happened if...

Move forward to ME2, post-EA take over. The game becomes more 3rd person shooter than action RPG but the updated GFX, extended cast and the promise of seeing what happens next meant ME2 worked great. Again we had choices to make, large and small and again we were promised that all the myriad choices stored would in some way shape what was to come.

And then ME3 came. I will grant that the cast, combat, loot/upgrades, etc were all excellent. The story too is great. It was a little too "call of duty" for my liking (replete with obligatory on-rails turret scenes, "get to the LZ for evac" nonsense, etc) but each mission had an immediacy to it, an importance that kept us moving. The let down however was that most every decision we made to this point, irrespective of the difficulty at the time, the implications or moral dilemmas at the time became simply a "War Asset", a numerical value.

The ending was the ultimate expression of this. Instead of taking any (or even some) of those decisions into account and ending in such a way as to a) reflect any of it b) show us what actually happens to the galaxy or characters we get an "ending machine" like Deus Ex. All three lead to what is, for all intents and purposes, exactly same FMV with minor differences that says absolutely nothing.

So 5 years, multiple playthrus, engaging characters, moral choices and 100s of variables ends with a damp squib. And we know BioWare are better than that. They create incredible games and are masters of storytelling. They're also historically very good at making things fans like. They missed this one by a long way, letting themselves and the fans down.

 

[Legion]

I wouldn't say it's being taken too far, just that a lot of people are complaining in an incredibly immature way. Though the same can be said for those who don't dislike the ending too.

The actual cause itself I think we have every right to be pissed off, the product does not match the advertisement. On that grounds alone people are right to complain.

The fact that the ending is also full of plot holes has deus ex machina, poor writing, lack of closure, choices and goes against established lore just makes it even worse.

 

[Proverbial Jon]

.. Darn. I knew I got that wrong somehow since I never looked into Harry Potter (well I couldn't get into the books.. but the movies were good to see.) Still, sorry about that heh. Also glad it's not just me who sees thus- many feel heart broken and Bioware isn't making it any easier on us sadly. The point you made at the end is a very good one- I do believe they underestimated the fans love for Tali Mass Effect overall.

Think about it.. I recently gotten into Mass Effect maybe say a month ago and I changed my Avatar, title, and game favorites on Mass Effect. That's something, and I haven't gotten into it the whole 5 years most fans have done which I can tell it probably reflects on them much more then myself so it sucks ether way.

Still, we can't get over our heads. We can deal with it in a civil manner like donating to that Maradur Shields (totally spelled that wrong) charity for kids and e-mail Bioware or certain people who work their about our concerns. So yeah even though I support the fans fully for getting on Bioware we can't get so outraged that we snap at people who are okay with the ending. It's their opinion and so we shall respect (for the most of us to respect others anyway.)

Hey, time spent in a game does not mean anything. If you found such a deep connection in such a short time it only serves to prove that Mass Effect truly is the all encompasing behemoth of videogame story telling that fans have touted it to be. That's a great thing and I'm glad.

As sad as I was to see the passing of your Hanako/Rainbow Dash avatar, Tali is an arguably worthy replacement. So much love for Tali. I'm just thankful to Bioware for not ruining her character in ME3. As far as I'm concerned, the controversial picture of her face (that I did not get in my game) is just Tali's way of trolling Shepard.

I love Mass Effect 3. Many people will disagree but I felt it was the best game in the series. Ultimately it was a huge shout out to fans. There were many references to memes and popular elements of previous games (Shepard's dancing, favourite store on the citadel, Garrus' calibrations etc) Every character you could think of returned in some way and finished off their stories, most had grown and developed in ways we wouldn't have expected(Jack, anyone?) So esentially the majority of the game was perfect with regards to fans' expectations.

But that ending... Bioware really dropped the ball.

And the ending, in this case, is as important as the rest of the game, something Bioware really needs to realise. In the immortal words of Harbinger: "I know this hurts you, Shepard." Why yes, mighty synthetic overlord, yes it does.

 

[Gennadios]

Honestly i think the people taking this far too seriously are the ones harping about creativity and preserving artistic integrity and whatever other shit.

Bioware employs teams of writers. At least some of them are yaoi fan fiction writers who likely couldn't land a job in a more respectable medium such as film or infomercials.

Artistic integrity goes out the window as soon as you employ a group to write something. Say what you will about how inept Lucas is, at least his work had some semblance of stylistic consistency.

If a work of fiction's lead scifi writer quits before a series is done, and a fantasy writer butchers the work with their own liberties, is it too much to ask to fire the fantasy writer and find someone more fit to redo the work?

 

[The Pinray]

OP, you are asking the right question on the WRONG website. You really think the people that frequent this site are going to say "Yes, it's out of control"? Not a shot against the users here, just an observation.

There are plenty of people on this sight that think it is out of control.

I've been saying it since I heard they started the Take Back Mass Effect charity lunacy. Yeah, the money goes to a good cause, but the reason behind it is insane.

Though really, I saw this coming back when all the nuts were complaining about the Day 1 DLC, and whining about things that were "leaked" from the script.

So, overreacting started way before launch, exploded, came back together and has exploded three more times since launch.

-1,000,000 faith points in the sanity of gamers today.

You're most certainly right. I just cast that out not realizing that the "It's gone too far" camp are just staying quiet, mostly. That or I'm simply not noticing them over all the proverbial shouting... I've been attempting to remain neutral through all of this, simply enjoying all the rage.

Funnily enough, I wasn't too pleased with the ending, either. But I just moved on to other things immediately. I see no reason for all this up in arms business and that ridiculous "Take Back Mass Effect" campaign. As you said: good cause, vapid reasoning. It's just a video game.

I think the gaming community as a whole needs to take a step back and view us all in a more objective light, or how others not within the niche see us as a community. I think that'd help us all mature and move past such petty sniveling.

But hey, maybe I'm the insane one for granting audience to such inklings.

 

[TheCaptain]

Definately worth "fighting" for, though we should be using our indoor voices and provide constructive criticism instead of insulting the people who poured more hours and hard work into the game than all of my playthroughs combined.

Apart from that, criticism in video games can and must be allowed. Art or not, video games are primarily produced for the enjoyment of the customer and the wallets of the people who make them. In a case like this, were the vast majority of the player base is dissatisfied with a certain aspect of the game, players are entitled to voiving their opinion - all within the usual range of acceptable behaviour, of course.

That said, I also believe that the people who have a stake in the actual creation of the game, especially whoever wrote the infamous ME3 ending, have done so fully believing that players all over the world would be thoroughly amazed and satisfied be the ending. These people are probably as much, if not more, disappointed as some of the players are.

Now Bioware has stated time and again that the series owes its high quality to a concentrated effort of developers and players alike, even having called the players the "co-writers" of the series; they've now taken what I think is a step in the right direction by asking the community for feedback. We all knew they were going to do DLC eventuelly, so why not use this opportunity to appease the customer? I'll continue being part of the discussion.

Doesn't mean that certain people don't need to get hosed down from time to time for unproductive behaviour and foul language.

 

[boag]

Artist tells you he's going to paint you a picture of an apple
Pay for picture
Find out he gave you a picture of a fork
Ask him for a picture of an apple
He informs you that it's art and he's free to create whatever he wants
Tell him that forks are not what you wanted, and that he should paint you a picture of the apple you were promised
people call you entitled and childish

 

[Bvenged]

I'm not embarrassed, rewritten endings to stories/films & the likes happen all the time when the long standing consumers are far from happy with it. AS consumers of a product we can call balderdash when we are displeased with a product for qualitative reasons (which a lot of us are calling on). the less attached you were to the game series, the more tolerable the ending was; which is a bad thing.

I thought the Lost ending was good but I'd only seen a few episodes. Friend who had seen it all despised the ending.

I do, however, as I stated in a comment to Bioware "feel really bad after berating the games ending" when the co-founder stated he was embarrassed that so many disliked the ending to the best game he thought his team had ever done.

But it's the right thing, if we don't voice our displeasure how would things ever get better? It's a harsh jump in the learning curve for us all.

 

[Avalanche91]

Do I feel embarressed? No not really.

It was a poor way to end a trilogy, filled to the brim with plotholes and broken promises, probably permanently damaging the relation bioware had with some of its costumers.

Even if they were to make a new ending now, it would ring insincere because the people will remember the botched ending.

That FTC thing or whatever it's called was a tad silly though, but I admit to being curious to how it would have gone had they seen it trough.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Bioware should be embarrassed about that ending.

It felt totally unfinished and vague and wasn't up to the quality of the series at all.

Most people I have seen on forums have been constructive and very clear about what they found wrong with the ending and haven't been whiny at all. I have also seen very few people if any ask for a 'happy' ending. Most are okay with the ending we got as long as it was explained better.

Mass Effect 3 is an amazing game and I feel for the guy because its a gem, it really is, but they dropped the ball at the end spectacularly.

 

[DoPo]

I feel some gamers just hated ME3's ending because they wanted to hate ME3 for something.

Except that the people who truly hate the endings are the people that love Mass Effect.
It was such a fantastic story that needed a good ending.
Note that I don't necessarily mean a 'happy' ending, just one that does the story justice.
But as the endings are, they just take a massive shit on everything you've done up to this point.
Everything you've ever done in any of the Mass Effect games amounts to squat.
You don't even get any choices in the final dialogue, Sheppard just blindly agrees with the bullshit.
My Sheppard would have punched the fucker 4 sentences in.

Imagine doing everything right in Mass Effect 2, gained all upgrades, every squadmate loyal, etc.
And then, no matter what you do, everyone dies on the final mission and the collectors win. The end.
And the sad thing?
That that would actually be a better ending than what ME3 has.

Keyword "some", in case you missed it. Or do I have to spell out each and every option instead of rely on people's ability to understand when I'm not talking about every single gamer.

OK, here it goes - I feel some gamers just hated ME3's ending because they wanted to hate ME3 for something. Some other gamers didn't though. They might have had legitimate reasons to don't like it. Which I also pointed out in my previous post. Others still may have hated the ending because it didn't conform to their vision of how things should go. And others probably didn't like the game but saw all the rage over the ending and decided to join with the crowd just because badmouthing things can be fun and it's even better if there are people to support you. And so on and so forth.

It is not a black and white issue - people don't like the exact same thing for different reasons. For some it's justified for others not so much. If only we could have more of the sensible people...

But back to you - I have a small request: instead of completely missing my point could you try...not doing it?

 

[JediMB]

I'm other because, while the ending is full of plot-holes and doesn't fit with the tone of the entire series, it's not worth fighting for. Good for you if you think Mass Effect is the best game series of all time but if this is Bioware's vision for the end then it's Bioware's decision to make it that way and we shouldn't change that.

You make it sound like BioWare is a person with a unified and clear vision of how the game should have ended.

In fact, though, BioWare's writers were debating back and forth how they were going to end the game, since they were forced to rewrite it after the original script leaked.

In November they still hadn't come up with a better ending, so the lead writer supposedly vetoed the other writers and pushed through the contradictory crap we got.

 

[Random berk]

Its sad that we have to compromise the idea of games as art by making them change it, but most people will agree that it isn't the artistic direction they took thats the problem- its that the ending feels sloppy, half finished, and just a blemish on an otherwise excellent piece of work. If the weird end was at least competently made, and conveyed all the points it needed to, then I'd have been happy, as I'm sure would most people. But it wasnt, so thats why they now have to take it back and do it properly.

 

[Ninjafire72]

I have no trouble with bitching, people do that all the time. But asking for a different ending, even if the exsisting one is the worst pile of crap ever invented, is vile. It was the writers vision, you have no right to demand anything else. The PR department lied to you, well too bad, learn from your mistakes and dont believe any of this bullshit when the first spinoff Masseffect comes around.

Even if the ending was made to sell you dlc, they still shouldnt change it. Its a fucking disgusting practise but you got suckered in, if you hadnt preordered maybe you would have known before buying. Talk with your wallets people! DONT BUY THE DLC WHEN IT COMES OUT! That will only encourage EA and Bioware to do this in the future, and if you cant resist not buying this dlc and say "I wont buy any Bioware games... after this" you are lying to yourself.

That's about the dumbest ting I've ever read. I'm sorry, but people are dis-satisfied with something and your response is that it's our own stupid fault, and we should just ignore it? If everyone did that, nothing would change:
"NY Crime rate is rising? Just ignore it." "Colonel Gadafi is being evil? Just ignore it." "The Southern states of America are using black people as slaves? Just ignore it."
Based on what you said the NY police department, the Lybian rioters and George Washington are all 'vile' people for wanting change and are stupid to try fighting. See what I'm getting at here?

Being apathetic never solves anything, and as others have said shouting for boycotts rarely work unless properly organised. I'm not really happy about the whole whining business either, but if people are unhappy with something (or better yet, if they were LIED TO) then they have every right to raise their voice and try and make a difference.

Better than just sitting there determinedly not buying anything.