Poll: ME3 - Aren't You Guys Rather Embarressed?

[Tomeran]

This is starting to look like the MW3 scenario. People complain about a game, and then people coming out to complain about the complainers. And so on.

I'll agree that some of the complaints towards Bioware, and that thingie filed to EA, was completly out of line, but I personally consider it a customers right to voice discontent, and I dont have a problem with the "hold the line movement", or most other complaints in general.

People argue that its a "small thing to argue about", and that may be true in some perspectives, but a thing to keep in mind here is that this is one of the most personal and involving game storylines ever told, and having seen the ending alternatives, I can say that its...quite bad. I personally understand why people are upset, and as has been said many times: The ending is not the part of the storytelling you want to screw up, and this is not just any ending, its the ending of a trilogy, based mostly on the concept of an interesting story and an interesting world. The situation can be compared to this: Its like reading a greatly celebrated novel, the last one in a series of three, only to find out that the last chapter of the book, the epic conclusion, has been cut out and replaced with a chapter from an entirely different book. That's how out of context the ME3 ending feels. And in terms of entertainment and how much people invest in these games, both time and emotions, it is by no means a "small detail" to complain about.

Does Bioware have a responsibility to alter the ending because people are unhappy with it? No.
Should they? I dont know, but I dont belive they should ignore the outcry. It is a difficult problem to fix because ME3's ending is a complex thing, because it is a fairly complex series of choices that should've led you there. There is no easy "backtrack" from the ending Bioware has now settled with. And it would be quite bold to assume Bioware will actually ERASE the current ending and replace it with something else.
However, the least I think they can do is to offer some sort of "epilogue" dlc, free of charge, where they make an effort to explain some of the quite massive plotholes they left hanging at the end. It wouldnt fully repair the damage, but it would be a start.

 

[Triangulon]

It's definetly gone ridiculous. Don't get me wrong, I don't like the ending(s) either, but what do you complain about? ME3 is an extremely good game, got the solid plot and character interactions from the first, while getting the characters, combat and gameplay from the second, it's basically the ultimate Mass Effect.

I mean, the ending is a big deal to a story, but you really can't force Bioware into making a new ending, you are certainly entitled to explain why the ending sucked, but Bioware may just as well ignore you.

Look, if you don't like the game, good for you. But please stop with the "false advertisement" crap, the world didn't end, it was just the ending to a videogame franchise that was kind of dissapointing.

No, Bioware didn't betray you, they just had a different vision of what the story needed than you had.

I thought this was so correct it should be repeated.

Everyone is quoting Bioware as saying there would be this ending unique to your story but with so many potential choices through the series did people really think there were going to be dozens of different potential endings?

 

[Chairman Miaow]

The people fighting against the people against the ending are worse. It has gotten somewhat out of control, but I have yet to see a single person opposed to these movements for a better ending talk about this without either generalising, dismissing it as "You just want a happy ending", or something like that. I would be happy to hear someone defend the endings sensibly, so if you feel you can, go ahead.

 

[tzimize]

No. The rage is justified, in my opinion. It all boils down to something very basic: people were told throughout the series they were getting X, and X was a major selling point, and they got Y instead.

Any consumer would rightly be miffed.

Concentrated truth right here folks.

Also OT: I think its a thing worth fighting for, because we need to let the industry know what direction we like. So they can make more products we like, instead of more products we dont like.

 

[Candidus]

Snip

It isn't "unsatisfactory" in the way you're making out. Nobody is upset because it's sad, or ends on a cliffhanger. We're angry because it's full of plot holes. We're angry because it is ***objectively dysfunctional*** as the concluding piece of writing. If you haven't seen this video, it's time you did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6M0Cf864P7E

Then, bear in mind what we were promised by Bioware. What Bioware EXPLICITLY and REPEATEDLY stated the end would be like. If you'd like a reminder, check here.

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10056886/1

Yeah, pardon me if I'm not at all embarrassed about being angry and fighting for both an explanation for the out-and-out lies, as well as a revision.

 

[Sandytimeman]

You know why this crybaby whining annoys me, because you know that infantile child's toy view most people have of our mediu

SHIT LIKE THIS IS WHY.

So thanks so very much for degrading my passtime because you never learned that things don't always go your way.

Actually this is more in line with the way fans on traditional media fans react to someone taking a crap on their franchise(ie Star Wars for instance). If anything it means our medium is growing up. (This point brought to you by Jim)

 

[Treefingers]

Artistic integrity goes out the window as soon as you employ a group to write something.

Lol what? You have no idea how the film and television industries work do you?

Plenty of works of art are written by employed groups of people.

 

[Treefingers]

So many butthurt crybaby fanboys.

Let Bioware make whatever fucking game they want to make. If you don't like it, big fucking deal. It's not YOUR game. YOU AREN'T THE WRITER.

How do we expect our medium to be taken seriously as an art form if we ***** at other's writing and demand it changed? I mean, if enough people don't like the way the Mona Lisa looks does that mean we can scribble over it until it's nice enough to us?

GET THE FUCK OVER YOURSELVES.

*About to speak, but my mouth shuts.. and I look up to the side thinking carefully*

.. Hmm. Well, though I can simply transfer my long post to this- I would suggest if you'd like a debate or perhaps a post replying to your post then please read my really long post above, you can't miss it (lol).

Besides that, I must make one remark on your statement in the 2nd part about Bioware being able to do what they want with their game. Yes, it is indeed true it's their game and things like how Tali's face looks or maybe how the style of gameplay is, played- then we have no right to complain. However.. if the ending they made not only defiles everything the whole series stands for but also recommends you to buy their DLC after credits with a very short cheesy message.. I don't think it's something fans can pass up on being angry about.

I admit some are acting out of hand, but truth be told the most of us are actually stating our concerns. Over 90%, more then one hundred thousand and more fans all agree on Bioware being wrong with how they did their ending. It's not that we wanted some perfect ending where everyone's happy and the sky has a rainbow- nah I expected sacrifices and crap to come down. It's war, with Reapers.. bad stuff will go down. But the ending is so bleak, so .. hollow, it not only makes more questions rise up but the plot holes are left and right of it.

That and how Bioware, mainly the director Casey Hudson.. dealt with it. Broke 4 (and now I find out more then that) promises, avoiding questions and saying "It's art, we made it so you have to respect it no matter what we do." Yeah they can do whatever they want with Mass Effect but that's losing fans trust and loyalty if they treat their fans badly. I can't even get into the details again so please look above if you want to see all my points on this. Thank you for reading if you decided to take the time too. Cheers and hope things work out for the better.

I think you have every right to be angry about it, of course. But that's where it ends. No matter how bad it is, even if it does 'defy everything the series stands for' and even if it's full of plotholes and breaks 4+ promises they made you. Even if it does 'break your trust as a fan.' You're more than welcome to be angry and leave their fanbase. But that's where it ends.

In the end it's still theirs and it's still their work of art, and they can do whatever they want with it no matter how butthurt you get. If an artist wants to do something that will potentially hurt their audience, then they should be able to do so.

I'm being dead serious when I say that you lot are setting our medium back MORE THAN A DECADE. How badly does this reflect on the gaming community? What writer worth their shit is going to want to write for games when their artistic choices have to be changed because of an angry mob?

 

[BloatedGuppy]

if our industry was as widely as accepted as sci-fi you would have a point.

But its really not and its just pushing back that point where talking about games in an average social situation isn't faux pas. (by average i dont mean with your buds who you made through gaming, ofc they will talk about it)

I'll never understand this cringing insecurity gamers have, this need to be accepted and validated by non gamers. As if, say, sailboat enthusiasts sat around all day whinging about whether or not their hobby was perceived as legitimate in the eyes of non-boaters, as opposed to just getting on with their day. Maybe it's because the hobby, in its infancy, put down roots amongst those who were socially awkward to begin with, so this kind of bizarre self loathing and self flagellation in the face of adversity comes naturally. Who knows. It would be funny if it wasn't so tiring.

The fact that some people are beginning to treat the medium as legitimate art form, and as such demanding from it the same level of care and consistency we demand from other, more established art forms, is a good thing. Films have had director's cuts for ages. Books have been re-written to incorporate desired changes. Some people are squalling about a dangerous precedent, as if the precedent of correcting failed art hadn't been set ages ago. This is nothing new. The only unusual thing is the element in our community that gets sand in its panties every time we "step out of line" and treat the industry to the same critical standard that films and books have been viewed through for decades.

We are expecting more of games. That's a good thing. Games need to continue to mature and evolve as an art form. It would be nice if gamers would take the opportunity to do some maturing as well, and stop treating every single piece of industry news as an opportunity to fracture into splinter groups and start a new name calling campaign.

I'm being dead serious when I say that you lot are setting our medium back MORE THAN A DECADE. How badly does this reflect on the gaming community? What writer worth their shit is going to want to write for games when their artistic choices have to be changed because of an angry mob?

You're right. The medium is in danger of being set back a decade. You're just wrong about what attitude is behind it. Do you need a hint as to whose? Do you have a mirror handy?

 

[Crankafoo]

I suppose I can't say much, as I have yet to play ME3. I'm waiting on a slight price drop and then picking it up as well as the day-1 DLC (and possibly whatever others).

I've played both the games prior to it and watched the ending online after the big debacle revolving around it. I've gotta say, I don't feel as much hate and "Grrr" towards Bioware, but I can't help but feel off about it. It seems as if nothing you did really mattered when it came down to it. Why play as a paragon or renegade? Why save Kaidan or Ashley, and why (SPOILERS) blow up (or give Cerberus) the reaper at the end of two?

I don't know, that's just what has been going through my mind about it.

 

[TheCaptain]

I'm being dead serious when I say that you lot are setting our medium back MORE THAN A DECADE. How badly does this reflect on the gaming community? What writer worth their shit is going to want to write for games when their artistic choices have to be changed because of an angry mob?

To be fair, while the gaming community tends to look like an inherently unpleasable lot, this discussion if far from a regular occurence.

As for the rest, the relationship between artist and, for lack of a better term, consumer is a bit less onesided. Video games as a product, which they still are, are specifically aimed at the consumer's enjoyment. It's not like a single artist put his work out there to express himself in the world; on a project like this, there's also "the people who fund your work", "the people who are expected to buy your work" and also the countless other "artist with whom you need to work together". Sure, there are people more involved in the creative process than others, but the point stands. I daresay meddling happens anyway, various viewpoints (the "money" one being not entirely unimportant) factor into the final work; so why should we, who are a) constantly being told how much we're part of the creative process and b) the ones the money comes from to make all this stuff actually worth their while be the only people who don't get a say in what specific parts of the game should or shouldn't be like?

 

[Wanderhome]

*looks out window*

No riots or public executions... no were still good, fight on gaming bretheren!!

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Well no because you know what happens when every other industry churns out something bad?People call it bad and move on. So far people have spent 3 weeks dwelling on 10 minutes of gameplay.

So all those re-writes, focus groups, director's editions, etc...those are a fantasy, right? To say nothing of the fact that video games are an inherently different medium, with different rules. Unless I missed something, and you can now download a patch for your book, or a film can end in 17 different ways depending on user input.

In what a 20 hour + (i dont know the actual time it would take forgive me) campaign. 60x20= 1200

thats less than 1% of the experience (given that my 20 hour figure is way lower than the probably actual gametime) most people would let a 1% flaw go, i forgive stupid ass openings to games, just as i forgive cliffhangers and stupid assed endings to shows and films (lost , sopranos, akira) and most rational mature people will give that little bit of leeway and just go " yeah i had fun".

If you can't intuit how a bad ending can compromise narrative quality, then there's really no need for us to be having this discussion, because you're unwilling or incapable of looking at this sort of thing critically.

Hell when even the numbers are that against you the argument begins to look very petty.

And, we're back to name calling again. Yes, I do think we're doing a good job here isolating that portion of the community that needs to do some growing up.

 

[neoontime]

Shit, I didn't even play the game but it makes me proud that gamers can gather around and make such an impact. Well "impact" is debatable but still, all that wonderful attention makes me feel that we as gamers are really important.

 

[A Weakgeek]

But asking for a different ending, even if the existing one is the worst pile of crap ever invented, is vile.

Why the f*ck is it "vile"? You do realize that movies work that way? Test screenings? One example is Deep Blue Sea where the female scientist was supposed to survive but test audiences were shouting for her to die.

Games aren't art, they're products. Products, in the capitalistic little world we live in, the rage of ME fans is the ultimate expression of logic. It is the right, no, the duty, of the customer to make sure that something sub par is changed or kicked off the market.

Hopefully that means no more Bioware in a few years as they've gone from excellent to pure shit*shrugs*

I would agree with you, IF you could prove me that an ending can be proven to be objectively bad or "faulty" as many seem to call it. Maybe Bioware thought it was a really nice ending.

As for kicking it off the market.. I agree! Games with a horrible story should be kicked off the market. How do you do that? Dont buy the freaking game! If you bought the game then theres nothing you can do anymore, Mass effect 3 was a success, it made alot of money. What would the devs gain in changing it now, unless selling it as DLC

A game in developement can be changed, a movie in developement can be changed, but not after release. They change it because they think it will make more money that way. Changing it now would accomplish nothing exept pleasing those who already bought the game, which equals to nothing.

I'm not saying "just forget it", infact I'm saying the opposite. Remember this when their next game comes out. But let mass effect 3 go, let it die and serve as a reminder.

I have no trouble with bitching, people do that all the time. But asking for a different ending, even if the exsisting one is the worst pile of crap ever invented, is vile. It was the writers vision, you have no right to demand anything else. The PR department lied to you, well too bad, learn from your mistakes and dont believe any of this bullshit when the first spinoff Masseffect comes around.

Even if the ending was made to sell you dlc, they still shouldnt change it. Its a fucking disgusting practise but you got suckered in, if you hadnt preordered maybe you would have known before buying. Talk with your wallets people! DONT BUY THE DLC WHEN IT COMES OUT! That will only encourage EA and Bioware to do this in the future, and if you cant resist not buying this dlc and say "I wont buy any Bioware games... after this" you are lying to yourself.

That's about the dumbest ting I've ever read. I'm sorry, but people are dis-satisfied with something and your response is that it's our own stupid fault, and we should just ignore it? If everyone did that, nothing would change:
"NY Crime rate is rising? Just ignore it." "Colonel Gadafi is being evil? Just ignore it." "The Southern states of America are using black people as slaves? Just ignore it."
Based on what you said the NY police department, the Lybian rioters and George Washington are all 'vile' people for wanting change and are stupid to try fighting. See what I'm getting at here?

Being apathetic never solves anything, and as others have said shouting for boycotts rarely work unless properly organised. I'm not really happy about the whole whining business either, but if people are unhappy with something (or better yet, if they were LIED TO) then they have every right to raise their voice and try and make a difference.

Better than just sitting there determinedly not buying anything.

I'll use your hilariously over the top slavery argument as an example. In this case, those who bought ME3 and are complaining about the ending aren't the people trying to free the slaves, they are the ones that buy them. But then they realize that "Slavery might be wrong" and start complaining to the slave trader.(Neither slaves or videogames can be returned, they are similar in that regard.) Those who didnt buy ME3 are the ones fighting for their freedom, they are the ones who are saying "Freedom to the people" and not allowing them to live off of selling these slaves.

Sure you can complain after buying a slave, but what does it matter to the slaver? (Actually you could buy another slave, but buying two copies of ME3 makes no sense) Nothing. But even though you already bought a slave, you can do a diffrence by not buying his immoral shit next time.

 

[Animyr]

I'm being dead serious when I say that you lot are setting our medium back MORE THAN A DECADE. How badly does this reflect on the gaming community? What writer worth their shit is going to want to write for games when their artistic choices have to be changed because of an angry mob?

It's like if you ask for a guy named Da Vinci to paint a subtly nuanced portrait. He promises to do so. I pay in advance. He does. Then on the end he adds a giant goofy mustache and grins and says "get it? It's brilliant because it's not what you expected AT ALL!"

Erm, yeah. I'm not going to be all that amused or impressed by his curveball. I'm going to say "your artistic choices suck and I won't be hiring you again."

Now it is true that at the end of the day Bioware does indeed have the final say in what happens. But I also think fans have the right to express their opinions. And while most people agree that the fans can express our opinions, they always say that we have no right to "demand it." I can't help but notice that Bioware caving to fan complaints somehow turns into "demanding" for bioware defenders. Face it; bioware is caving to fan complaints because they're so widespread, regardless of whether they're "demanded" or not. "Demand" is a word. Some are using it in their complaints to bioware, many aren't. The sentiment is the same, and as you yourself admitted, the fans have every right to express that sentiment. And Bioware has every right to listen to that sentiment.

Again, look at broken steel. This has happened before.

Besides, it's not like the outcry is over every other flaw with the game and the fans are trying to take complete editorial control. Just the last fifteen damn minutes.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

As for kicking it off the market.. I agree! Games with a horrible story should be kicked off the market. How do you do that? Dont buy the freaking game! If you bought the game then theres nothing you can do anymore, Mass effect 3 was a success, it made alot of money.

Games have a much longer life span in the market than two weeks. While they might make a bulk of their return on day one sales and pre-orders, not everyone buys in that first week. Word of mouth and critical reception have a lot of impact on how well a game sells and continues to sell, to say nothing of money made off DLC. There's a lot of things you can do aside from traveling back in time and not buying the game.

What would the devs gain in changing it now, unless selling it as DLC

Uh...repair their relationship with their fan base? Repair the reputation of the game and the IP in general? Bolster sales of the game and sales of DLC over the coming year? Are you seriously even asking this?

A game in developement can be changed, a movie in developement can be changed, but not after release. They change it because they think it will make more money that way. Changing it now would accomplish nothing exept pleasing those who already bought the game, which equals to nothing.

Games are not films, even even films can be changed post-release. There are innumerable examples of this available. It's harder to find a game that never changes post release than a game that does. I honestly cannot understand how you would even argue this.

 

[RagTagBand]

Developers patch broken gameplay all the time, nobody cries about Art then, Broken Story should be patched too, especially since we have the technology and the ability to do it.

 

[ms_sunlight]

What? I'm just still surprised that no-one seems to have noticed the musical riff on The Beatles' "A Day In The Life" in the music that plays over the ending cut scenes as Joker flies through the Mass Relay.

Obvious drug / hallucination reference.

 

[chuckey]

I was never a ME fan, played about 2 hrs of the first one and just didn't get into it. Sorry. But the point is that after looking at the endings on youtube and taking a look at some of the marketing I can understand why people are reasonably upset

Anyone who wants to add or clarify please do so I'll spoiler this part just in case

Spoiler: Big spoilers???

So let me see if I'm on the right path here. There are three different main endings. RED, GREEN, and BLUE. according to what i've looked into the GREEN ending is supposed to be the best one right? However, due to what has happened in the story and the identity of the characters there are several parts that don't make sense right?

The fact that the Joker guy leaves the battle for some reason that is most likely not discussed upon in the story.

The fact that the mass relay thing should have killed the entire solar system when it blew up.

The fact that not only did Joker ditch Shepard but he brought along the girls that you were involved with and spent time building relationships with for who knows how long on to a planet that's like Earth.

The fact that all the endings are 98% the same cinematic(seriously there is a vid on youtube that combines them!) and the fact that if bother to get you military thing high enough you get an extra second in one of the endings that show Shepard take a breath or something.

The fact that the Developers had made several comments saying that the endings won't be typical endings, that there isn't really an A, B, C ending. That everything you have done previously WILL have and impact on your ending. And much more....

So I think that pretty much covers why everyone is frustrated. Do I think the level of anger should have gotten this high? No. Do I think people have a right to be upset, Yes.

But remember... at least the series didn't end like "The Sopranos"... but at this point I think some of you would have preferred it did.