Poll: ME3 - Aren't You Guys Rather Embarressed?

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ElPatron

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tony2077 said:
i played the game saw the ending. i didn't feel the pointless rage that everyone else and their dog is feeling. most of what i see is the game didn't have the ending they wanted so ragefest here we come
Seriously?


I seriously hope this is the last time I have to link someone to the ACTUAL reasons why people hate the ending.

"boo hoo you didnt get the ending you wanted" - False.

That's about as logical as using the word "entitled".

Frostbite3789 said:
They already know how it ends. They don't want anything shocking, they want to save the princess and the kingdom. They want bedtime stories, not engaging stories.
>plotholes everywhere
>themes which were important subjects during the whole series are completely disregarded
>Shepherd spent 3 games going against the odds and then at the very end gives up and accepts the choices he is given - note that they do not make any sense
>CHOICES! A, B or C


"ENGAGING STORY WITH EMUSHIONAL ENGAGEMENT!" - Bioware
 

Alex Tom

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While not one of them I think if u don't like it you are free to complain and do anything u want to a certain point...

Complaining on the forums - fine, great
Putting a childs play campaign - ok whateva

FTC complaint - are you kidding me?!?!?!?!? taking it a bit to far
 

Tony2077

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ElPatron said:
tony2077 said:
i played the game saw the ending. i didn't feel the pointless rage that everyone else and their dog is feeling. most of what i see is the game didn't have the ending they wanted so ragefest here we come
Seriously?


I seriously hope this is the last time I have to link someone to the ACTUAL reasons why people hate the ending.

"boo hoo you didnt get the ending you wanted" - False.

That's about as logical as using the word "entitled".

Frostbite3789 said:
They already know how it ends. They don't want anything shocking, they want to save the princess and the kingdom. They want bedtime stories, not engaging stories.
>plotholes everywhere
>themes which were important subjects during the whole series are completely disregarded
>Shepherd spent 3 games going against the odds and then at the very end gives up and accepts the choices he is given - note that they do not make any sense
>CHOICES! A, B or C


"ENGAGING STORY WITH EMUSHIONAL ENGAGEMENT!" - Bioware
i finished the game and i personally don't see the problem. did anyone go crazy with the ending to deus ex: HR
 

BloatedGuppy

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Alex Tom said:
FTC complaint - are you kidding me?!?!?!?!? taking it a bit to far
FTC complaints against game developers are not new. Usually whenever something goes wrong with a MMO, from too much downtime for patches to a bad nerf, there's someone on the forums rattling their saber with a FTC complaint.

I actually think it's an expression of how impotent gamers feel in the customer-developer dynamic than a sign of how crazy they are. Which is not to say I support it, because it is crazy, but I more that I understand how things get to the point where people are doing and saying crazy things.

tony2077 said:
i finished the game and i personally don't see the problem. did anyone go crazy with the ending to deus ex: HR
Well, I guess if YOU didn't see the problem we can pack up and go home!

The ability to understand and recognize perspectives other than your own as valid is the first step on the road to becoming an adult.
 

ElPatron

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tony2077 said:
i finished the game and i personally don't see the problem. did anyone go crazy with the ending to deus ex: HR
So your logical response is

the game didn't have the ending they wanted so ragefest here we come
[citation needed]

That's right, I gave you a 20 minute video explaining everything that is wrong with the ending and you just make a wild assumption about people who actually care about what Bioware promised.
 

A Weakgeek

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BloatedGuppy said:
A Weakgeek said:
If Mass Effect was a hardcore RPG with just a cult following, and not a AAA title with EA as a publisher I would be more inclined to agree with you, but the way I believe the industry works ( I believe, you might be expert on the subject and prove me wrong.) a big portion (if not majority) of the people who buy the game are casual gamers, who might have not even played the previous games.

Even though the "outrage" has reached ridiculous levels, you still are the vocal minority of the rough 2.5 million who bought the game. The fans aren't the most important demographic when selling a game, which can be seen from the constant streamlining of the series.

And dude, dont take this as an insult from me to you. I can see you are very passionate about the game. I had this happen to me too, I played KotOR 2.
Well, a couple of things.

First, you need to define "hard core" and "casual" gamers. 2-2.5 million copies sold does not indicate a game has crossed over from being a genre success to a mainstream hit. There's probably never been a more hardcore niche game than Starcraft, and it sold something like 15 million copies. You want to find the "casual gamers", you're going to need to look at sales for things like Farmville and Wii Fit. We're talking tens of millions, not 1-2.

Second, the core "passionate" fan base of any particular property is fairly important even if it's numerically small. They're the ones who buy the collectors editions, they're the ones who order all the DLC, they're the ones who buy all your day 1 preorders before review scores are even in the mail. And most importantly, they're the ones who drive word of mouth and help establish your brand.

Third, and most importantly, you can't ever assume the statistical breakdown of the silent majority. Whether or not a poll of 50,000 that shows 90% of people hated the ending is self selecting, that doesn't mean that everyone who didn't vote in it was satisfied. Most polls use a much smaller sample size, and they're usually pretty damn accurate. Whether that 90% number is actually indicative of all X million people who bought the game or not, you can bet Bioware feels queasy when they look at those numbers. That's the whole reason a dialogue around this exists with them in the first place. This isn't about mollifying an artistically unsatisfied minority, this is about maintaining a good relationship with your customer base. The same reason Valve sometimes gives games away for free, the same reason Amazon will accept returns on opened software. Sometimes, believe it or not, you do need to take a breather on buggering your fan base, or you'll wake up one day and find you no longer have one.
You know what? You're right. After thinking on what you said, I was making alot of assumptions. I still don't think Bioware is going to do anything, but aslong as you act civil and not like entitled arses ( like some are ) I guess I have no problem with it.

I hope you all have realistic expectations though, since its a rough world we live in. But yeah, for whats it worth, you were able to change the opinon of a guy on a internet forum. ( Not an easy task, people are stubborn.)
 

Setch Dreskar

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While I think certain aspects of the rage are too far, I think BioWare has earned it, after all they constantly brought up as a selling point how vital our choices were to the ending of the franchise, and that the choice wouldn't boil down to A,B,C and yet not only does it but it makes all our choices a moot point.

The aspect of the DLC coming out so far named 'The Truth' had been started before the game was finished, so BioWare knowingly sold us an unfinished game so they could have the real ending set aside for DLC. Of course that is a bit of speculation after all the BioWare backspin of them trying to get us to keep ME3 and that more story was on the way.

Really the next big issue in this is if BioWare will charge us extra money to see the actual ending, or if they will offer it for free. I paid almost 90 USD for the N7 CE, if the DLC isn't free, well aside from being pissed I will act like any responsible consumer and stop consuming.
 
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I thought it was going to far then I took a Citadel to the knee(I don't care how awful that joke is). Overall, no I do not think that we have gone too far as once again it is only a small minority that has gone to far. Many more people have come up with valid points out why they dislike the ending among other things so yes this is a good thing.
 

bz316

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I approve of every step taken that wasn't a complaint to the FTC. That was just stupid. So put me as an "Other".
 

WalkableBuffalo

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Yes, it is going a bit far, but if you are unhappy with something you don't have to sit around doing nothing, so I support them
 

Savagezion

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Yopaz said:
Sure, if you sell a faulty product believing it to be working OK and it turns out it doesn't and you get injured for it the one who sold it is responsible. However Mass Effect 3 is not a faulty product. If the story didn't end the way you want it, then that's subjective. A story with a poor ending and a car without working breaks can't really be compared by any law.

So here is where you're wrong. Their subjective statements about the game doesn't match your subjective statement of the game. That does not mean they told an objective lie. I think I'll leave it at that.
What are you talking about? Did you read my post at all? No, if I sell you the book "Twilight: New Moon" and tell you it is a book about Frankenstein and that it definitely isn't about vampires because a book about vampires would be terrible, that is falsely advertising. That is what happened in Mass Effect. Those quotes in the link are specific. This isn't us saying Bioware lied because they said the ending is gonna be 'awesome' or some other subjective statement. They said very specific things that turned out to be very specifically the opposite. Some of these things were said while the games were being shipped out to stores.

"[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass
Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers."


"The trick is, because it?s a BioWare game, there will be more than one ending. Which means there?s more than one ending to Shepard?s story. It?s not a matter of saying, ?Here?s an optimal ending.? There?s gonna be different options, different endings."

Those were stated in an interview on Feb 28, 2012. 1 week before copies could be sold at retail. The game was finished and in shipment.

"There are many different endings. We wouldn?t do it any other way. How
could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and
then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can?t
say any more than that?"


March 5, 2012 in response to the leak on the internet and word spreading the game had only 3 endings that were all the same except for color. They lied specifically to deter people away from the leaked info. That was 1 day before the release of the game.

If you see that as merely subjective, then let me know when you are in the market for a car and I will sell one to you. Just know that I can't go below asking price, the car cost me exactly whatever price I happen to relay to you. I also know just the car. After you fill out a questionnaire, its crazy how likely this car was made to your tastes even if you don't realize it.
 

Tony2077

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BloatedGuppy said:
Alex Tom said:
FTC complaint - are you kidding me?!?!?!?!? taking it a bit to far
FTC complaints against game developers are not new. Usually whenever something goes wrong with a MMO, from too much downtime for patches to a bad nerf, there's someone on the forums rattling their saber with a FTC complaint.

I actually think it's an expression of how impotent gamers feel in the customer-developer dynamic than a sign of how crazy they are. Which is not to say I support it, because it is crazy, but I more that I understand how things get to the point where people are doing and saying crazy things.

tony2077 said:
i finished the game and i personally don't see the problem. did anyone go crazy with the ending to deus ex: HR
Well, I guess if YOU didn't see the problem we can pack up and go home!

The ability to understand and recognize perspectives other than your own as valid is the first step on the road to becoming an adult.
so just because i don't have a problem my opinion is mute. there is a ragefest going on if you can't see that then i don't have anything more to say
 

BloatedGuppy

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tony2077 said:
so just because i don't have a problem my opinion is mute. there is a ragefest going on if you can't see that then i don't have anything more to say
"Moot".

You are welcome to your opinion. There's a difference between "having an opinion" and "deriding the opinion of others".
 

Valdus

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I think the first day DLC complaints where legit.

The ending complaints? Sorry, but games are allowed to be bad. There are plenty of games with worse endings and even worse parts all over, yet I don't see any petition to change them. Like it or not the ending is never going to be as good as the fanboys imagined. The "false advertising" element of it I can see, but quite frankly I don't think that's why people are pissed. They're pissed because it just plain sucks and they can't handle their precious Mass Effect being not perfect in their eyes.

Seriously, the hype over the ending has been worse than the attempts to weasel money of the fans...Whaaat? Why the hell is that the case? It just plain shouldn't be.
 

Thoric485

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Overall i'm embarassed that EA is still in business. I'm happy that now there's splintering even in those who buy their crap.

And i find if the pretty funny that EAware bring up the matter of "art" since they don't handle their games like art at all. They cut them up and monetize them in the most damaging ways, they instert hamfisted cameos, they invest more in marketing than in actual development.

They treat their works like simple products, yet now they want to hide behind artistic integrity? I don't think so.
 

Rariow

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I picked "other", but what I really meant was "both".

Yes, the ending was horrible. I'm not going to discuss that. I'm happy people are fighting for this: Games are art, and this kind of emotion, genuine indignation, is, I think, something only art can bring to this massive a scale. The Jimquisition's last episode pretty much is all about that. However, things have gone out of scale. Whilst this is worth fighting for, it's not worth this kind off rage from people. Yeah, an AMAZING series of games ended on a bad note. So what? You have the right to be angry, but some people outright DEMANDING, as though they have any sort of right to control BioWare, they change it is just over the top. The ending was like a burglar that's come into your house. It makes you furious. However, the reaction is like nuking your house to get rid of the burglar. Completely over the top.
 

Tony2077

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BloatedGuppy said:
tony2077 said:
so just because i don't have a problem my opinion is mute. there is a ragefest going on if you can't see that then i don't have anything more to say
"Moot".

You are welcome to your opinion. There's a difference between "having an opinion" and "deriding the opinion of others".
so your saying i should sit back and watch them bully bioware into changing the ending. works for me see ya
 

zefiris

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Terramax said:
Picture yourself as a non-gamer looking into this. Or even watching, from a distance, fans of a franchise you don't like making a fuss over a similar issue.
You mean like Sherlock Holmes fans did? Their complaining got us several literary classics we wouldn't have gotten without fans.

Seriously. As a non-gamer, you'd just think "wait, those people got a falsely advertized product and are complaining? Seems their right to do so, whatever.". And then you'd forget about it.

The only people that are embarassing themselves are people like you, because you seem to be ignorant of fundamental customer rights.
And BTW: I never even bought mass effect 3, and never planned to. I have zero investment in the ending, but I do support customer rights against fools that discard them to not be ~*~embarassed~*~.
 

BloatedGuppy

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Rariow said:
I picked "other", but what I really meant was "both".

Yes, the ending was horrible. I'm not going to discuss that. I'm happy people are fighting for this: Games are art, and this kind of emotion, genuine indignation, is, I think, something only art can bring to this massive a scale. The Jimquisition's last episode pretty much is all about that. However, things have gone out of scale. Whilst this is worth fighting for, it's not worth this kind off rage from people. Yeah, an AMAZING series of games ended on a bad note. So what? You have the right to be angry, but some people outright DEMANDING, as though they have any sort of right to control BioWare, they change it is just over the top. The ending was like a burglar that's come into your house. It makes you furious. However, the reaction is like nuking your house to get rid of the burglar. Completely over the top.
Well, this is a problem with polarized discourse. Bioware/EA needs to take a share of the blame in letting things get to this point, and not just because of that shameful ending. When you have an incestuous relationship with the gaming media, and you use that same media to attack your fan base in response to criticism, things are going to take an ugly turn. It should be humiliating for the industry as a whole that fucking FORBES was one of the only media outlets covering this debacle with even a whiff of objectivity.

tony2077 said:
so your saying i should sit back and watch them bully bioware into changing the ending. works for me see ya
No by all means you should continue name calling on forums. It's super productive and reflects really well on you.
 

Tony2077

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BloatedGuppy said:
Rariow said:
I picked "other", but what I really meant was "both".

Yes, the ending was horrible. I'm not going to discuss that. I'm happy people are fighting for this: Games are art, and this kind of emotion, genuine indignation, is, I think, something only art can bring to this massive a scale. The Jimquisition's last episode pretty much is all about that. However, things have gone out of scale. Whilst this is worth fighting for, it's not worth this kind off rage from people. Yeah, an AMAZING series of games ended on a bad note. So what? You have the right to be angry, but some people outright DEMANDING, as though they have any sort of right to control BioWare, they change it is just over the top. The ending was like a burglar that's come into your house. It makes you furious. However, the reaction is like nuking your house to get rid of the burglar. Completely over the top.
Well, this is a problem with polarized discourse. Bioware/EA needs to take a share of the blame in letting things get to this point, and not just because of that shameful ending. When you have an incestuous relationship with the gaming media, and you use that same media to attack your fan base in response to criticism, things are going to take an ugly turn. It should be humiliating for the industry as a whole that fucking FORBES was one of the only media outlets covering this debacle with even a whiff of objectivity.

tony2077 said:
so your saying i should sit back and watch them bully bioware into changing the ending. works for me see ya
No by all means you should continue name calling on forums. It's super productive and reflects really well on you.
so without zeel here i turn into the resident asshole well you have to be good at something i suppose