Poll: ME3 - Aren't You Guys Rather Embarressed?

[BloatedGuppy]

wow you can't read can you

Lets type slowly for you
" THE ARGUMENT BEGINS TO LOOK PETTY"

Your allowed to be critical and dislike and ending, sure be pissed off. Don't demand a rewrite. don't spend 3 weeks dwelling and screaming about a work of fiction. So you didn't like the ending, move on. If this truly seems like something in your life that needs that kind of energy poured into it, then i would recommend prioritising better.

Directors editions alter how what is there is viewed, they very rarely change the actual output of the film. Sure alternate endings exist for many things, but most directors acknowledge that they may have been wrong. Regardless of these facts those changes happened before release and were by people who were making the games not by people who have much time on their hands moaning because it wasn't the best ending ever.

Realistically speaking nothing could of lived up to the hyped that community had for it anyway. Same as with the lost ending there were too many variables. And you just have to make do and appreciate the good stuff.

Take this bottle of anti-perspirant. Its been quite good for me, antiperspiring for many a month, when it comes to its sputtering unimpressive climax and runs out of gas, will i be pissed because the end of it sucked. No it did its job very well for the rest of the time.

If you can't appreciate the journey it takes to get somewhere than the experience was wasted upon you. And as such i pity your time wasted. Take the ending to deus ex, that caused a schism, but after a little boohoo most people realised they enjoyed the stuff before and that overall it was a pretty fun experience.

Now if you'll excuse me i have a lovely sunny day to enjoy.

Well, see, I can read. And I'm reading the usual deluge of thinly veiled ad hominem attacks that have been floating in from your camp from the very beginning. The accusations of pettiness, of "entitlement". The presumption that a lot of "dwelling" and "screaming" and "moaning" is going on. A suggestion that people are having trouble prioritizing or that they "have too much time on their hands"...say, perhaps they're letting the kids go hungry or something so they can craft up a new jeremiad regarding the ME3 endings. I've spent no more energy discussing this issue then the people such as yourself, who are so strangely motivated to shout it down. The little energy I've been expending has been put towards improving something I feel passionate about. The little energy you've been expending has been put towards calling people names, impugning their motives, and propping up an artistic catastrophe as inviolate.

By all means, do enjoy your sunny day. Perhaps you'll find some more people you disagree with about things, and indulge yourself in some name calling. It does appear to be a past time for you.

 

[boag]

You know why this crybaby whining annoys me, because you know that infantile child's toy view most people have of our mediu

SHIT LIKE THIS IS WHY.

So thanks so very much for degrading my passtime because you never learned that things don't always go your way.

Hey man, let me kill your hearsay with more hearsay


http://www.gameranx.com/updates/id/5695/article/mass-effect-3-writer-allegedly-slams-controversial-ending/

according to the information in the link, Walters and Casey took it upon themselves to fuck around with the writting.

So tell me, if Casey and Walters took the time to fuck around with other peoples art, why are you not complaining about them?

 

[A Weakgeek]

As for kicking it off the market.. I agree! Games with a horrible story should be kicked off the market. How do you do that? Dont buy the freaking game! If you bought the game then theres nothing you can do anymore, Mass effect 3 was a success, it made alot of money.

Games have a much longer life span in the market than two weeks. While they might make a bulk of their return on day one sales and pre-orders, not everyone buys in that first week. Word of mouth and critical reception have a lot of impact on how well a game sells and continues to sell, to say nothing of money made off DLC. There's a lot of things you can do aside from traveling back in time and not buying the game.

What would the devs gain in changing it now, unless selling it as DLC

Uh...repair their relationship with their fan base? Repair the reputation of the game and the IP in general? Bolster sales of the game and sales of DLC over the coming year? Are you seriously even asking this?

A game in developement can be changed, a movie in developement can be changed, but not after release. They change it because they think it will make more money that way. Changing it now would accomplish nothing exept pleasing those who already bought the game, which equals to nothing.

Games are not films, even even films can be changed post-release. There are innumerable examples of this available. It's harder to find a game that never changes post release than a game that does. I honestly cannot understand how you would even argue this.

You can argue that that whining might have an effect, but you cant really prove it. Not buying the game however does have an effect. That you cant argue.

As for selling more DLC/copies, do you remember the Day 1 dlc incedent? People bought it anyways. I'm willing to guess they made alot more money off of the 10 dollars than they lost from canceled orders. I also bet that making a new ending would cost MUCH more than what it would gain in copies sold. Selling another ending (Or an "epilogue") would make much more sense financially than fixing the current one. Besides when people keep doing like most of the fanbase seems to be doing (IE. buying the game, then whining about it) they DONT NEED a good reputation as long as people keep buying them.

After DA2 all ive seen is empty "threats" not to buy any bioware games again. EA and Bioware are just testing the waters here, even more bullshit stuff will be coming in the future I assure you, and as long as people keep buying and whining they will continue.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I'm quite frank about what i say and mean. Anything else you read into it is on you. But many from your camp have been doing those things.

And? I'm sorry, but "They started it!" is a pre-schoolers argument. If someone else is doing something inane and childish, the correct response is not to up the ante.

I see people acting dumb and i call them out on it, same as i would about a football fan still crying three days after his team lost or people actively giving up who they are in order to fit in with some percieved way to be.

Do you know me? Do you know any of the people you're arguing with on this issue? All you have is forum posts, from which you've decided to deduce all sorts of behaviors, such as "crying" and "moaning" and fucked up priorities. Surely you know what "straw men" are, right? I'm not sure why you think this is a constructive or even an interesting way to discuss any issue. Listening to people invent their own windmills to charge at instead of actually discussing things like rational, adult human beings isn't nearly as gratifying as you seem to think it is.

If your really getting hurt by this non existant name calling. (because again im not calling anyone petty, just the argument), then i empathise with being so easily hurt.

So we change the nature of the ad hominem attacks, moving from accusations of moaning and pettiness to accusations of "easily injured". If this is how you express yourself in daily conversation I think I understand why you're constantly being accused of committing social faux pas. And it's not because you like gaming.

Perhaps you can explain to me why it's "petty" to critique art, especially art that has been created for the express purpose of mass consumption.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

You can argue that that whining might have an effect, but you cant really prove it. Not buying the game however does have an effect. That you cant argue.

As for selling more DLC/copies, do you remember the Day 1 dlc incedent? People bought it anyways. I'm willing to guess they made alot more money off of the 10 dollars than they lost from canceled orders. I also bet that making a new ending would cost MUCH more than what it would gain in copies sold. Selling another ending (Or an "epilogue") would make much more sense financially than fixing the current one. Besides when people keep doing like most of the fanbase seems to be doing (IE. buying the game, then whining about it) they DONT NEED a good reputation as long as people keep buying them.

After DA2 all ive seen is empty "threats" not to buy any bioware games again. EA and Bioware are just testing the waters here, even more bullshit stuff will be coming in the future I assure you, and as long as people keep buying and whining they will continue.

Why on EARTH do you think people are buying from them in the first place, if not their reputation? All of this stuff doesn't take place in a vacuum, you know.

You a pretty curious interpretation of how the industry works, I'll give you that.

 

[Savryc]

Gamers ***** and whine over pointless, unimportant shit all the time, my embarrassment gland burnt out a long time ago. However, I wouldn't say it's out of control, more like it's an average Thursday. ME3 was never in a million, billion, squillion years gonna live up to everybody's expectations. I saw the bitchfest coming a mile off but didn't realise how big it would be nor that it would spill out into the Escapist to such an extreme.

But the whole demanding to change the ending thing? No. That's utter bull even by gamer standards, I don't care what PR spin bullshit Bioware put on about how it was "Your Shepard, your story" it was their story since they were the ones fucking writing it.

While the Child's Play thing was a good cause and hats off to everyone that donated despite being an obvious "look how nice we are!" publicity stunt, Retake Mass Effect can fall arse first onto the Washington Monument. You can't retake what was never yours to begin with and no, owning a copy of the game does not mean you own the story, I own a copy of the Sam's Town album by The Killers. Does that mean I can rock up to Brandon Flowers and scream in his ear until he changes the baseline on Uncle Johnny? No, because it's not my song to change and I have no right doing so.

My god it's just a sucky ending, have you never experienced one before? Are you really that sheltered? Does the ending to a fairly average space opera trilogy really mean so much to you? Is it really worth all this effort when there are genuinely shitty things our favourite industry is doing right now that deserves more attention? (You wanna whine about consumer rights? Kick up a Retake Used Sales drive then you'll be going somewhere)

But we may as well be back in time for all the chance you'll change your minds.

 

[Oly J]

don't get me wrong, I love to see this kind of passion in people, but let's face it video games aren't exactly renowned for great endings, since I haven't played any Mass Effect yet I couldn't possibly comment but as an outsider this looks to me like it's just been blown WAY out of proportion

it's a bad ending, shit happens, frankly of all the things for gamers to get up-in-arms about, this, to me seems like a pretty damn peculiar choice

OT yes I am kind of embarrassed, at leaat I would be if any of the bile was coming from me, hell, I love "Star Wars" but I don't especially care about Greedo shooting first or CGI eyes on Ewoks, Vader saying "NOOO!" in "Jedi" however.....actually I can kind of understand

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Gamers ***** and whine over pointless, unimportant shit all the time, my embarrassment gland burnt out a long time ago. However, I wouldn't say it's out of control, more like it's an average Thursday. ME3 was never in a million, billion, squillion years gonna live up to everybody's expectations. I saw the bitchfest coming a mile off but didn't realise how big it would be nor that it would spill out into the Escapist to such an extreme.

But the whole demanding to change the ending thing? No. That's utter bull even by gamer standards, I don't care what PR spin bullshit Bioware put on about how it was "Your Shepard, your story" it was their story since they were the ones fucking writing it.

While the Child's Play thing was a good cause and hats off to everyone that donated despite being an obvious "look how nice we are!" publicity stunt, Retake Mass Effect can fall arse first onto the Washington Monument. You can't retake what was never yours to begin with and no, owning a copy of the game does not mean you own the story, I own a copy of the Sam's Town album by The Killers. Does that mean I can rock up to Brandon Flowers and scream in his ear until he changes the baseline on Uncle Johnny? No, because it's not my song to change and I have no right doing so.

My god it's just a sucky ending, have you never experienced one before? Are you really that sheltered? Does the ending to a fairly average space opera trilogy really mean so much to you? Is it really worth all this effort when there are genuinely shitty things our favourite industry is doing right now that deserves more attention? (You wanna whine about consumer rights? Kick up a Retake Used Sales drive then you'll be going somewhere)

But we may as well be back in time for all the chance you'll change your minds.

1. Do you understand the ways in which a song and a game are different? Why did you think that was a good analogue?
2. Why does the existence of other bad art make future bad art not only acceptable, but inevitable? Should there be no standards for art then, especially art that was designed for mass consumption?
3. Do you believe that all issues should be ranked according to ethical imperative, and the lesser issues abandoned? I mean, used game sales? Who in their right mind would be concerned about that when there's all this starvation going around. And what kind of monster worries about starvation when there's rapes going on this very instant!

 

[TophatEmperor]

Meh.


Building a life size walking Harbinger model that blares his lines from ME2 every step it takes and using it to attack EA's corporate headquarters is out of control.

shh, that's Operation Crucible 2.0 !

Don't worry...no one will believe him...now lets get back to building the Legs

 

[Chris Beaulieu]

Mass Effect 3 is a victim of its own success. The story for 98% of the trilogy is SO GOOD the endings flaws becomes glaringly bad when they arrive. I played the game a little late, wondering why everyone who was making such a fuss was making it since the game was giving me everything I had hoped for and a little more.....then the deathray hits and the standard of story writing seems to get tossed out the window. I would like to think someone showed up and said "HEY ITS TIME TO SHIP THE GAME WRAP IT UP IN 5".... at least I hope this is the case and it wasnt by design.

 

[A Weakgeek]

You can argue that that whining might have an effect, but you cant really prove it. Not buying the game however does have an effect. That you cant argue.

As for selling more DLC/copies, do you remember the Day 1 dlc incedent? People bought it anyways. I'm willing to guess they made alot more money off of the 10 dollars than they lost from canceled orders. I also bet that making a new ending would cost MUCH more than what it would gain in copies sold. Selling another ending (Or an "epilogue") would make much more sense financially than fixing the current one. Besides when people keep doing like most of the fanbase seems to be doing (IE. buying the game, then whining about it) they DONT NEED a good reputation as long as people keep buying them.

After DA2 all ive seen is empty "threats" not to buy any bioware games again. EA and Bioware are just testing the waters here, even more bullshit stuff will be coming in the future I assure you, and as long as people keep buying and whining they will continue.

Why on EARTH do you think people are buying from them in the first place, if not their reputation? All of this stuff doesn't take place in a vacuum, you know.

You a pretty curious interpretation of how the industry works, I'll give you that.

If Masseffect was a hardcore RPG with just a cult following, and not a AAA title with EA as a publisher I would be more inclined to agree with you, but the way I believe the industry works ( I believe, you might be expert on the subject and prove me wrong.) a big portion (if not majority) of the people who buy the game are casual gamers, who might have not even played the previous games.

Even though the "outrage" has reached ridiculous levels, you still are the vocal minority of the rough 2.5 million who bought the game. The fans aren't the most important demographic when selling a game, which can be seen from the constant streamlining of the series.

And dude, dont take this as an insult from me to you. I can see you are very passionate about the game. I had this happen to me too, I played KotOR 2.

 

[slackbheep]

Your mistake is in viewing the entire fanbase as a whole here. There is a minority of fans who will complain about each and every game they supposedly enjoy. There is another who are ideologically opposed to certain types of DLC, or certain companies. Then, there are those who feel they were lied to and want to hold Bioware to the promises they made. Another faction is composed of those who simply feel the finale was a mess of plot holes, and expected more. Regardless, this has come together into a perfect storm of costumer dissatisfaction. By all means, laugh at those who claim the series ruined their lives... but keep in mind that most of the iceberg lies below.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

If Mass Effect was a hardcore RPG with just a cult following, and not a AAA title with EA as a publisher I would be more inclined to agree with you, but the way I believe the industry works ( I believe, you might be expert on the subject and prove me wrong.) a big portion (if not majority) of the people who buy the game are casual gamers, who might have not even played the previous games.

Even though the "outrage" has reached ridiculous levels, you still are the vocal minority of the rough 2.5 million who bought the game. The fans aren't the most important demographic when selling a game, which can be seen from the constant streamlining of the series.

And dude, dont take this as an insult from me to you. I can see you are very passionate about the game. I had this happen to me too, I played KotOR 2.

Well, a couple of things.

First, you need to define "hard core" and "casual" gamers. 2-2.5 million copies sold does not indicate a game has crossed over from being a genre success to a mainstream hit. There's probably never been a more hardcore niche game than Starcraft, and it sold something like 15 million copies. You want to find the "casual gamers", you're going to need to look at sales for things like Farmville and Wii Fit. We're talking tens of millions, not 1-2.

Second, the core "passionate" fan base of any particular property is fairly important even if it's numerically small. They're the ones who buy the collectors editions, they're the ones who order all the DLC, they're the ones who buy all your day 1 preorders before review scores are even in the mail. And most importantly, they're the ones who drive word of mouth and help establish your brand.

Third, and most importantly, you can't ever assume the statistical breakdown of the silent majority. Whether or not a poll of 50,000 that shows 90% of people hated the ending is self selecting, that doesn't mean that everyone who didn't vote in it was satisfied. Most polls use a much smaller sample size, and they're usually pretty damn accurate. Whether that 90% number is actually indicative of all X million people who bought the game or not, you can bet Bioware feels queasy when they look at those numbers. That's the whole reason a dialogue around this exists with them in the first place. This isn't about mollifying an artistically unsatisfied minority, this is about maintaining a good relationship with your customer base. The same reason Valve sometimes gives games away for free, the same reason Amazon will accept returns on opened software. Sometimes, believe it or not, you do need to take a breather on buggering your fan base, or you'll wake up one day and find you no longer have one.

 

[Savagezion]

I'll clarify, its not that people are reacting that im taking issue with, its the over-reacting, people are putting more energy into the ending of a video game, and not the various actual real world problems there are to do deal with.

Your allowed to disagree with the company, be annoyed, tell them what you think. But the butthurt screaming(which is a different thing to plain disagreement) from the (a significant portion) ME3 fanbase doesn't just make ME fans look bad, it makes us all look bad.

I gotta disagree. I think people complaining some consumers are standing up for their rights makes us look bad and sends the wrong message. If they are allowed to lie to get us to buy, how are we supposed to vote with our wallets? Additionally, I think it is cheap to say taking action against crooked business practices in gaming isn't dumb because there are starving kids in Africa.

 

[Frostbite3789]

You know why this crybaby whining annoys me, because you know that infantile child's toy view most people have of our mediu

SHIT LIKE THIS IS WHY.

So thanks so very much for degrading my passtime because you never learned that things don't always go your way.

Gamers can be extremely infantile and this whole fiasco has taught me something about them.

They don't want anything different. There's a reason Mario and Zelda and that ilk still sell like hotcakes to this day.

They already know how it ends. They don't want anything shocking, they want to save the princess and the kingdom. They want bedtime stories, not engaging stories.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Gamers can be extremely infantile and this whole fiasco has taught me something about them.

They don't want anything different. There's a reason Mario and Zelda and that ilk still sell like hotcakes to this day.

They already know how it ends. They don't want anything shocking, they want to save the princess and the kingdom. They want bedtime stories, not engaging stories.

I too like to make sweeping generalizations and aspersions about huge groups of people. I mean, I know prejudice is bad and everything, but it's fun when we do it. Right?

 

[Frostbite3789]

Gamers can be extremely infantile and this whole fiasco has taught me something about them.

They don't want anything different. There's a reason Mario and Zelda and that ilk still sell like hotcakes to this day.

They already know how it ends. They don't want anything shocking, they want to save the princess and the kingdom. They want bedtime stories, not engaging stories.

I too like to make sweeping generalizations and aspersions about huge groups of people. I mean, I know prejudice is bad and everything, but it's fun when we do it. Right?

I'm frustrated. Was the ending the best thing ever? No. But it wasn't this bad to warrant this tidal wave of hatred. So, I stooped down to their level for a bit and shoved it back. Did I really mean ever gamer? No. That's hyperbole.

 

[samaugsch]

People potentially have invested $180 and 5 years of their time, hoping for a mind-blowing sci-fi epic with an equally mind-blowing ending. Instead we got this bullshit.

Damn right people got a right to complain. :/

From what I've heard, Bioware themselves even said that the fans would get the former, but they didn't. It seems the biggest reason they're upset is that they can't trust Bioware anymore (some people here seem to have yet to realize that however).

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I'm frustrated. Was the ending the best thing ever? No. But it wasn't this bad to warrant this tidal wave of hatred. So, I stooped down to their level for a bit and shoved it back. Did I really mean ever gamer? No. That's hyperbole.

Generally speaking fighting hyperbole with hyperbole doesn't result in the original hyperbolists seeing the error of their ways. It just means everyone digs in harder, their attitudes become more polarized, and the "discussion" becomes a cringe-inducing parade of confirmation biases and insults.

Part of the problem with critiquing the gaming industry is that the relationship between game developers and game critics is completely incestuous. If game developers had a healthier fear of their work being savaged critically, we'd see less slap dash crap wrapped up as AAA. This industry, and their hostile, petulant attitude towards having their work scrutinized, is long overdue for a change.

 

[Mikeyfell]

A video game has an unsatisfactory ending, and it seems the entire gaming community cries in outrage. Petitions, hate against developers, filed complaints, talks about people never buying Bioware games again, people believing they've been robbed financially!

Another gaming boycott! I wonder how it'll turn out? Well I'm in this camp as well, and I'll try to stick to my guns and not buy Dragon Age 3 (or anything else them make) unless they fix the Mass Effect 3 ending.

As he mentions, people were pretty upset about the ending to the Lost TV series. Or how George Lucas milked the Star Wars franchise for all its worth. But surely these aren't examples of the fans of the said medium showing sophistication, rather the latter, that in many ways people reacted pretty childish or overzealously?

Picture yourself as a non-gamer looking into this. Or even watching, from a distance, fans of a franchise you don't like making a fuss over a similar issue.

I'm not a fan of Star Wars. (I've seen the movies and I liked the original trilogy, but I'm not a fan) and I completely understood when they flipped their shit at the prequels.

So my question is - what is the difference? Are people within the gaming community going too far? Or is this really a serious issue for the gaming community and industry?

I think this is a special case with the Game industry that other mediums can't get in on. If a book (Lol, rage over inaccurate Mass Effect book) or a movie has a bad end you're kinda screwed. Nobody's going to recall the movie to change the ending, that's way to much work. But a game on the other hand, the game industry has gone in such a way that DLC is here to stay. Every body hates it (for some reason) but it's not going anywhere. So you know about the Day 1 DLC debacle, now imagine if a DLC package saved Mass Effect 3 by fixing the ending? DLC is here to stay, the least it can do is work for us.

Maybe EA told them to make the ending suck on purpose so they could save it with DLC. It would make them more money and possibly even redeem DLC in some peoples' eyes. It's a heartless move, but a brilliant one. because honestly who's not going to spend $10 to make the game playable?