Poll: MLP Has Jumped the Shark

[Adeptus Aspartem]

Can't agree with that. The likes/dislikes of episodes in each season were equal in all 3 of them.
To your point with the overexaggeration of the characters i can totally agree in the case of my former best-pony Pinkie. In Season 3 she's just the MLP equivalent of forced internet memes and crazy/annoyingness for the sake of it.

Though AJ, Rarity and RD somehow grew during S2/3, imo.

What annoys me the most is the inconsistence of the episodes. Sometimes it seems the writers have no common ground <.< There's 1 author i've in mind specially .. in every of his/her episode the characters just behave totally out-of-character, it's a pain to watch.

It definitly hasn't jumped the shark yet

 

[Snownine]

I thought it was more of an outlook on Communism with a twinge of Jewish money grubbing.

No no no, your thinking of the Super Cider Squeezy 9000 episode. That was definitely advocating communism.

Hell, all this pandering and 'jumping the shark' happen solely because of bronies. Now that's funny.

I think Yahtzee was asked a question about what a fanbase can do to provide helpful criticism towards their content creators. His answer: "Don't."

And this is what happens when people don't follow that advice.

I don't pretend to know anything about My Little Pony, in fact I clicked this thread to see what MLP stood for and ended up browsing through peoples responses. However I have to say Yahtzee's advice is terrible. If creators do not have a finger on the pulse of their viewership then they run a very high risk of losing their fans and finding themselves looking for another job. It is necessary to know what the fans like and don't like about your content and then use that information wisely while maintaining your artistic and professional integrity. It is the poor use of this feedback that leads to the heavy handed uneven pandering that some are complaining of in this thread.

I disagree. I've been a fan of Opeth for over a decade now; not once have they pandered to their fans. People are drawn to creators because of their vision. Those who decide to part ways because the creator goes somewhere they don't agree with are affordable losses. An artist does't create art to get the biggest fanbase, they do it because that's what they want to create. People are drawn to that, and I think it's an exaggeration to say that not listening to the fans will cause them to lose out on their trade entirely.

Before I start I want to apologize for the length of this post, I just wanted to convey my feeling. Also I think this is an interesting topic and it is good that we are discussing it.

I meant more along the lines of television were losses can and are actually very devastating and often lead to the cancellation of shows. I did not mean the person would be run out of show business, I just mean they run the risk having to find another project to work on. The example I am thinking of right now is Star Trek the Next Generation. The character Wesley Crusher was very unpopular with fans. He was portrayed as this super wunderkind that frequently saved the entire ship and showed up a crew of people that were supposed to be the elite of Starfleet. It contributed to the cheesy feel of early TNG. Because of the reaction of fans his character was scaled down a little and brought to a much more palatable level. This, along with a number of other changes, helped mold TNG into the superior show it became. And although the people writing, directing and performing for television are artists they are also making a commodity for consumers, i.e. the viewers. And in any market place, of which television is a notoriously rough one, if you are not giving the consumer what they want they often will find someone who will. I do in fact hold artistic integrity and sticking to ones vision very highly, I feel that it is both an admirable quality and can often lead to some very interesting results that would otherwise be ruined by interference from say the fans of the TV executives. However artists are also human and therefore do make mistakes sometimes, such as the terrible treatment of Wesley's character, and by listening to fans they can get an idea of what is working or not and choose whether or not they feel they want or should make a change. Constructive criticism is a good thing and without it most artists would never have been able to learn or hone their craft.

 

[saintdane05]

No, it hasn't. Just because something gets a below or around average season does not spell doom and gloom.

 

[Pariah164]

Yes, it has. Discord becoming a good guy? Shark. Jumped.

Everyone says 'well Trixie reformed and she was a villain'. No. Okay, Trixie was a bully. A misunderstood bully who just wanted ATTENTION.

Now, Discord? Legit. Threat. He DEPOWERED the Mane six. COMPLETELY. The only reason they came back and beat him was because Celestia managed to pull a massive Batman Gambit. Had that not happened? Equestria=doomed. He should have remained stone and then be shattered into dust.

But no, we get, "You can reform Discord through friendship. Get to it." Just. WHY THE FUCK? They just demeaned my favorite villain.

I'd rather he come back, be evil, and get destroyed by Vinyl Scratch's BASS CANNON than be 'reformed'.

All this reforming shit does is teach bad life lessons. "Look, kids, he was a monster, but he's good now!" NO.

No. No. No.

If Lauren Faust was still involved, she would have put a stop to this BS I think.

 

[BabyRaptor]

3 has not been my favourite season...Keep Calm and Flutter On made me officially stop following show cannon, it was just that bullshit. And I'm not liking the massive amount of focus on the side characters. Or the plotholes. A lot of the shows this season have made me rant, yeah.

But it's a kid show, so you're not going to get the perfection of Buffy or Firefly.

That said, no. I don't think they've jumped the shark yet. I was expecting that with the Alicorn Twilight BS, but that seems to have disappeared off to the straight-to-dvd 66 minute movie thing so it should be reasonably ignorable.

 

[Arcadian Legend]

For those of you saying that episodes like Magic Duel and whatnot are pandering, are you aware of how long it takes to actually pitch an episode and when it gets to be written up and/or finished? Magic Duel at least was pitched on January 2011. Hell it was originally going to be a season 2 episode. The fanbase was very small back in Jan of 2011 too. I bet some of the other season 3 episodes were the same way. Dunno about Keep Calm and Flutter on though. But yeah, this fanbase does a lot of overanalysing for a show that is at it's core, a kids show and I too think the writers shouldn't allow themselves to get influenced by bronies any more than perhaps minor visual gags and such ( which isn't even their department really) . While season 3 has been of a lesser quality than the previous two overall it's far from the worst possible thing, that being the future season 4 being consistently the same quality or being of a lesser quality than S3 was. It's still good enough for my and many others enjoyment.

 

[xplosive59]

Season one was a masterpiece and was virtually flawless, season two was great but many obvious flaws had arisen and the show took a big turn changing from a "slice of life" character driven narrative to a action focused narrative driven show.

Season 3...is a fucking train wreck. With the exceptions of two episodes, it has been absolutely terrible in every department besides animation (which is nearly impossible to screw up anyways). The characters are no longer relatable and are very badly written (overreacting EVERYTHING), the stories have potential but are always messed up and it feels like they're forcing the characters through situations in the wrong way, and the pandering to fans is shameless.

I'll miss the show I once loved and cherished, but at least I'll still have approx. two seasons of greatness to remember. Its was certainly very enjoyable while it lasted. *doffs hat*

This is exactly how I feel about the show except for I don't believe season 1 is flawless, season 2 I thought was average but looking back on it now I feel that there are very few episodes that I would go back and rewatch and still enjoy. Season 3 though just plain sucks.

 

[Arcadian Legend]

For those of you saying that episodes like Magic Duel and whatnot are pandering, are you aware of how long it takes to actually pitch an episode and when it gets to be written up and/or finished? Magic Duel at least was pitched on January 2011. Hell it was originally going to be a season 2 episode. The fanbase was very small back in Jan of 2011 too. I bet some of the other season 3 episodes were the same way.

Just because an episode concept was pitched on Day X doesn't mean that the episode's entire script was already written by that point. Many developers of TV content will pitch an idea and get a greenlight sans script, as they don't always have time to waste writing scripts that they won't end up using.

But that's the thing, I'm talking about the episode concept here, (sorry, should have specified better) that being that Trixie was going to make a return and not so much about the as then unwritten script. Trixie's return was one of the things that the fans wanted the most and they got it. Though not necessarily due to their own wishes but rather because it was planned all along.

 

[RJ 17]

Well, as season two ran it's course it became more and more clear that the show I loved was dying. Characters that had always been so well defined became inconsistent. In fact, Twilight Sparkle was horribly flanderized in the very first episode not directed by Faust, Lesson Zero. She goes so absolutely batshit insane over the fact that she missed one little deadline (that I might add was never specified in her original assignment) that she actually puts the town in danger and Celestia has to step in to clean things up!

Now, if this had been an isolated incident I would have just chalked it up as the one bad episode that every show has, but it set a precedent of sloppy writing and asinine plots that snowballed as the season went on. Baby Cakes: two babbys that -- straight from the womb -- could give Twilight and Rainbow Dash a run for their money in magic and flying respectively. A Friend in Deed: Pinkie sets out to absolutely *ruin* an innocent donkey's life just so he would be her friend and actually manages to get her way at the end. Putting Your Hoof Down: the entire town decides that it is cruelty to Fluttershy day, and Fluttershy responds by getting lessons on how to be a complete asshole. MMMystery on the Friendship Express: half of the mane six prove themselves to be complete jerks with no regard for anyone or anything than full-filling any desire that pops into their selfish little heads as the completely destroy the cake that the, er, Cakes poured hours of blood and sweat into for the competition. And then there was the Canterlot Wedding. Oh man, here we find out that Twilight has a long lost brother who actually wasn't lost and that she loves so very dearly that she never thought to even mention him *anyone* before this time, even in passing.

You're more than welcome to your oppinion (YAY! INTERWEBZ!) but it just seems to me like you were looking for reasons to not like the show, and found little nit-picks to blow into massive problems.

Spoiler: A breakdown of the episodes you have a problem with.

With Lesson Zero: Twilight has always been an obsessive freak about her studies. Despite all the evidence to the contrary, she refuses to believe that Celestia will always be happy with her performance. Given that she wouldn't have even been enrolled in the academy if it weren't for Dash's first ever Sonic Rainboom, Twilight feels like she always has to prove herself to the Princess. And since she had started up a tradition of sending a report back every week, she suddenly feels like she HAS to do that or Celestia will once again be disappointed in her. This wouldn't be the first time that Twilight has gone insane over something trivial, and that's the joke: she's such an egghead that it's easily within her character to go insane over trivial, insignificant matters.

With Baby Cakes: Changing diapers with your face is just wrong. HEAVILY implying that Ms. Cakes has been having an affair with both a pegasus AND a unicorn might have been a humorous little joke meant for the older members of the audience, but I still think it was a bit much for what's supposed to be a kids' show. In short: I agree with you that this was a bad episode.

With Friend in Deed: Pinkie didn't hatch a plot thinking "Alright Pinkie, this new donkey in town is the only person you haven't met and befriended. The best way to go about befriending him is to ABSOLUTELY RUIN HIS LIFE!!!" A more adult-worded version of this episodes moral would be "The Path to Hell is Paved With Good Intentions". Everything Pinkie tries is meant to be a happy, friendly gesture. It just so happens that everything she tries only makes things worse. Pinkie's only problem in this episode is that she's Pinkie, she can't stand to not be someone's friend, and that's why she keeps trying. She doesn't WANT to piss him off and get into a bigger mess, it's just that everything she tries blows up in her face. She finally gets her way at the end because she finally does something right: she reunites the donkey with his long-lost love, the very reason he became such a sad-sack was because he was separated from the female donkey. If reuniting someone with their long-lost love isn't worth that person declaring you a friend, then I don't know what is.

With Putting Your Hoof Down: That's what Fluttershy's day-to-day life is. You rarely ever see her away from her house (unless she's with the other mane six) and now we see why: she's such a pushover, HARDLY out of character for her. We just finally got to see how other random ponies react to easily being able to push her around because of her meek personality. There's numerous episodes in which her friends all try to get her to stand up for herself, this episode shows what happens when she finally decided to do just that.

With MMMystery on the Friendship Express: You say that half the mane six decide to just go along with whatever selfish desire pops into their heads. Well considering the fact that Pinkie couldn't stop raving about how amazing the cake was, I'd say the temptation factor was pretty high. They couldn't stop themelves, Pinkie made the cake sound positively orgasmic to taste. The lesson is about forgiving your friends when they do something wrong, and that out of disaster even better things can arise, such as the combination of all those treats to make the final presentation that wins first prize.

With The Royal Wedding: Your biggest complaint about this episode is simply that Twilight's brought shows up out of nowhere? Could it be that Twilight has never had a need to mention her brother? Yes, she loves him very much, but they're both adult ponies now, they both have their own separate lives and they're off doing their own thing. Do you (or anyone you know) talk about your (or their) siblings all the time? Especially when those siblings live in a different part of the country? She has fond memories of her childhood with her brother, yes, but beyond that they both have their own lives to live now. That's why Twilight is so upset at the beginning of the episode, she clearly hasn't even heard from her brother in a very long time and all of a sudden she finds out that he's getting married.

And finally, with Keep Calm and Flutter On: If Celestia proved correct in her belief that the mane six - specifically Fluttershy - could rehabilitate Discord, think of all the good that couuld come from a reality-shaping god using his powers for good rather than pure chaos. It was a gamble, to be sure, but there was always a fail-safe: the elements of harmony. If it proved to be a failed experiment, they could just seal him away once more. The episode is to show the unrivaled power of Friendship. And in the end it pays off. Discord - a being who has never had a true friend before - finally sees that while he thought he didn't even care about friends, actually losing someone that claimed to be his friend was something that he just couldn't take. Fluttershy had shown him nothing but kindness and he used her kindness against her, it was her open honesty about wanting to be his friend that chipped away at his heart and he just couldn't stand to lose the only friend - or pony that was trying to be his friend - that he had ever had. And so the story proves Discord's proclamation at the end and the show's title to be correct: Friendship Is Magic.

It's fine if you don't like the show anymore, everyone has their own tastes. And to be perfectly honest, I fall into the category that says "Not as good as the first season, but I still like the show." So I do agree in a declining quality. But I just think that saying the show has completely jumped the shark is a bit much.

But then again, like most popular things, we love to build them up to godly status only to tear them right back down. I'd imagine that MLP will suffer this same fate, but I don't think it's there quite yet.

*re-reads his post* Wow, and here I wouldn't even really call myself a "brony", just someone who enjoys the show.

 

[V da Mighty Taco]

snip

Most of my issues with ACW comes from the last act of part 2. After Chrysalis's reveal, her IQ drops like an anvil and Celestia gets literally knocked out in one hit from a very anticlimactic beam battle. Some of the really stupid mistakes Chrysalis makes are as follows:

- Telling her entire plan to all of the ponies bar Luna that can stop her, including her biggest threat Celestia.

- After capturing the Mane 6, she doesn't restrain them like she does Celestia and Cadence, nor does she separate them. All of her enemies together in one room and within five meters from her, and she lets half of them roam free together.

- Neither she nor the other changelings bother to pay any attention to their prisoners, or at the very least none of them bothered to stop Twilight from freeing Cadence while she's openly talking about freeing her so she can go save Shining Armor.

- The classic example - Chrysalis laughs at and underestimates the power of love when it's the very source of her own power. You know, the very thing that supposedly let her beat Celestia. She then sits there and watches while Shining Armor and Cadence charge up their Love Nuke, instead of trying to stop it at all.

There's also numerous other plotholes in this part, like Luna's unexplained absence and - my personal favorite to ***** about - two half-dead ponies being able to one-shot the entire changeling army, including the queen, when a perfectly healthy Celestia got completely curbstomped by the queen alone. I think you got the idea though, so I'll quit rambling about part 2's climax for now.

As for part 1, it has some plotholes of it's own but does do a good job of establishing the new characters as much as possible in a 22-minute span and leaves us with a flat-out awesome double-twist ending that also gives some personality to Shining Armor. The songs in both episodes were really good as well; if a bit repetitive (This Day Aria), nonsensical (BBBFF), or pop-music like (Love's in Bloom). I still listen to two of them often, so that's a good sign. The background music by William Anderson is nothing short of phenominal (I even listen to that often; just listen to the music during Chrysalis's reveal XD). The humor in both episodes is severely lacking, but Twi's character arc is spot on and makes this very enjoyable to watch. Lastly, Chrysalis, before we even know who she actually is, is established as very intelligent and deceptive, managing to fool all of Canterlot without raising any suspicions; which is why her later mistakes irritate me so.

I'm going off on a tangent here, aren't I? Still, I don't hate ACW, but wow does it have some issues. I guess what really irritates me is how it had so much potential, but mucked that up so badly at the end. The two-parter is not bad, but it's so very far from being among the best of FiM when it very well could have been. It also gets far more credit than other episodes that I feel are underrated, such as Sisterhooves Social, which irritates me even further.

 

[Leemaster777]

Is MLP past it's prime? In one man's opinion, not at all.

Now, I like season 1 as much as the next fan, but in all honesty, I feel that season 2 was even BETTER. The number of episodes I liked VS the number of episodes I didn't like was much higher in season 2 for me, and it also gave us the first CMC episode that I actually LIKED (Hearts and Hooves Day).

Season 3 has been a bit more of a mixed bag for me, kinda split evenly between episodes I liked, episodes I didn't like, and episodes I'm indifferent to. But that hardly means that the show is past it's prime.

The writing is still top-notch, the characters are still entertaining and enjoyable, and the animation is better than ever. Really, I thought that all this talk of "The show will suck without Lauren Faust" was over by this point. Of course she's important, but there are still plenty of very talented people who work on the show, and WANT to make it succeed.

Really, I feel like the TC is complaining about the details, while losing sight of the big picture.

 

[Madmanonfire]

I think everyone can agree that Season 1 was the best times for MLP:FiM.

This statement is painfully wrong. Season 2 introduced neat characters like Discord and Iron Will while Season 3 brought back Trixie and, well, had more Discord. (You can never have too much Discord.) The show has been improving ever since the limitation of Friendship Letters has been almost removed in S2-E3. Sure, not every episode is amazing, but most of them have been a fun ride and this ride hasn't shown any signs of slowing down.
People are taking this awesome show too seriously.

 

[jackpipsam]

I too felt that after the first season it went down a bit.

Some of that had to do with the change in staff, Hasbro getting involved with Derpy along with Bronies no longer making the amazing 'WOW' stuff they used to.
The opening and ending of the season was great though.

Season 3 had a good opening, but apart from that... I am not feeling it anymore.


I am not going denounce myself being a Brony, but I have noticed that the writing has gone downhill.

I hope that the show focus on good ideas and goes with that, me think one of the problems is that now the show is trying to appeal to a wide audience.

 

[Coppernerves]

I think everyone can agree that Season 1 was the best times for MLP:FiM.

This statement is painfully wrong. Season 2 introduced neat characters like Discord and Iron Will while Season 3 brought back Trixie and, well, had more Discord. (You can never have too much Discord.) The show has been improving ever since the limitation of Friendship Letters has been almost removed in S2-E3. Sure, not every episode is amazing, but most of them have been a fun ride and this ride hasn't shown any signs of slowing down.
People are taking this awesome show too seriously.

Very true, I found that Dexter and Breaking Bad both got really boring in Season 3, but MLP doesn't seem to have done that, so it may have been getting more off the wall and ridiculous, but I don't see that as a bad thing.

 

[Ekit]

MLP jumped the shark with the episode Feeling Pinkie Keen. That was one of the most infuriating and insulting things I have ever seen in childrens programming.

Religious propaganda should be kept out of this kind type of entertainment!

lolwut

The episode Feeling Pinkie Keen is religious and anti-science propaganda. The moral of the story is that you should believe the supernatural explanations to things that you can't explain, that rationality and deductive reasoning always should be put second to blind belief and that trying to find out objective facts about reality on your own is a pointless endeavour.

That is a horrible moral and something that in my opinion doesn't belong in a program aimed at children.

For those who haven't seen the episode. The episode is about Pinkie Pie's supernatural ability to predict the future. Twilight Sparkle tries the entire episode to find a rational explanation to why Pinkie Pie can defy the rules of reality and keeps telling herself that Pinkie Pie's predictions are just coincidences.

In the end though she gives up trying to find a logical explanation to Pinkie Pie's ability and just accepts the fact that Pinkie Pie can predict the future and that there is no explanation.

The episode ends with this quote:

Dear Princess Celestia,

I am happy to report that I now realize there are wonderful things in this world you just can't explain, but that doesn't necessarily make them any less true. It just means you have to choose to believe in them.

Methinks that you're over analyzing a little bit. Also you are blowing it way way way WAY out of proportion. See Lauren's thoughts on it.

http://pandasennin.deviantart.com/art/Lauren-Faust-s-2-cent-on-Feeling-Pinkie-Keen-285338098

I don't think I'm overanalyzing. I really can't see how you can interpret the moral of the story in any other way than "belief is better than the pursuit of knowledge".


Lauren Faust even agrees with me on this, the only objection she raised in her response is that belief and faith doesn't necessarily have to apply to religion.

The point is that Twilight spends the entire episode trying to use her rationality and critical thinking and in the end it turns out to be a waste of energy since there was no explanation and "you have to choose to believe". The story punishes Twilight (physically) everytime she tries to find the truth and and (arguably) vilifies her by making the moral of the story contradict her morals.

I do agree that I was overreacting, I don't care for MLP that much, but it frustrates me to see that so many adults are willing to praise a show like MLP without any critical thinking or criticism. It's not the end of the world, it's only a very questionable episode of a childrens cartoon.

 

[Ekit]

MLP jumped the shark with the episode Feeling Pinkie Keen. That was one of the most infuriating and insulting things I have ever seen in childrens programming.

Religious propaganda should be kept out of this kind type of entertainment!

lolwut

The episode Feeling Pinkie Keen is religious and anti-science propaganda. The moral of the story is that you should believe the supernatural explanations to things that you can't explain, that rationality and deductive reasoning always should be put second to blind belief and that trying to find out objective facts about reality on your own is a pointless endeavour.

That is a horrible moral and something that in my opinion doesn't belong in a program aimed at children.

For those who haven't seen the episode. The episode is about Pinkie Pie's supernatural ability to predict the future. Twilight Sparkle tries the entire episode to find a rational explanation to why Pinkie Pie can defy the rules of reality and keeps telling herself that Pinkie Pie's predictions are just coincidences.

In the end though she gives up trying to find a logical explanation to Pinkie Pie's ability and just accepts the fact that Pinkie Pie can predict the future and that there is no explanation.

The episode ends with this quote:

Dear Princess Celestia,

I am happy to report that I now realize there are wonderful things in this world you just can't explain, but that doesn't necessarily make them any less true. It just means you have to choose to believe in them.

I thought it was more of an outlook on Communism with a twinge of Jewish money grubbing.

In all seriousness, if you want to take the episode in that light(such a negative one I'd say) then fine, but I feel like that's a bit over board calling it religious propaganda. Some things you really just can't explain, they just happen, that's just as true in Ponyville as it is for our world too. And while Twilight did say believe, it was simple to infer that Pinkie Pie was capable to tell the future, so while she might not be able to understand the why and how of it, Twilight still isn't just accepting it as blindly believing it, but as an observation of a phenomenon.

While I can see where you're coming from with that observation, I wouldn't necessarily say it's to that degree you mention. They're not trying to convert anyone, just saying that religion is a thing, and whichever way you go on it is ok. Even if you disagree with religion in every sense of the word and what it represents, it really didn't shove it down your throat like you're implying.

Now if you want real examples of religious propaganda, I suggest you go watch a few episodes of Veggie Tales.

Edit: yes I reworded and rephrased a few things from the original post, just in case you quote me to reply. I just woke up, trying to word things a bit better than in the original post.

Yeah, maybe I was too harsh in calling it religious propaganda, since it isn't openly referring to religion, but rather "faith" which you could argue isn't exclusive to religion. But I definitely think that the episode's moral is anti-critical thinking.

The reason for this is that Twilight is physically punished everytime she tries to research the situation using logic and reasoning. In a story with a clear moral to it, which all MLP episodes have, the person who isn't following the moral of the story is punished. This is to illustrate how the moral the story is teaching is correct. By punishing Twilight they are saying that she is wrong and Pinkie is right.

 

[mronoc]

snip

Yeah, I'd certainly never say it was great, just that kind of works in it's own way, a very broad, melodramatic, Disney-ish kind of way. I think the reason I tend to be lenient towards ACW, is that my expectations were thoroughly lowered by the fact that I found so many of the later season 2 episodes unbearably dull, specifically Dragon Quest, Hurricane Fluttershy, and MMMystery on the Friendship Express.