Poll: Peace In The Middle East

[cobra_ky]

I will admit we (Christians) like to fuck things up a lot too, but compared to Jews and Muslims we're nothing over there. I think all we do is walk around and say "aren't you tired of this shit yet?"

well, that and actively encouraging Israel to establish a Jewish kingdom, rebuild the Temple, and fulfill the prophecy of the end times as foretold in the book of Revelation.

Israel's the problem. That and fundamentalist Islam.

*Israel wakes up* you know what I'll do today? Fuck up stability in the middle east and cause tension between Israelis and Arabs/Palestinians....

It is true that most of this is because of Islam...but we are also partially responsible. But now that I think about it, it is almost like this was all predetermined. I mean the thing that started all of this was the Cold war. Man we really need a rewind button. But if we all can agree on peace, then things won,t be so bad.Yep, that,ll be the day when Joseph Stalin will truly die.

Yep Judaism and Christianity are not to blame AT ALL. [/sarcasm]

I will admit we (Christians) like to fuck things up a lot too, but compared to Jews and Muslims we're nothing over there. I think all we do is walk around and say "aren't you tired of this shit yet?"

Excuse me! If it wasn't for the Crusades Muslims would not be so intent on recapturing Jerusalem. Hell Muslims are still telling their kids the horrors of the Crusades, that's why in Muslim Nations the Red Cross has to be called Red Crescent and use this
because the sight of a Red Cross was also the symbol of Crusaders.

uh, no. it's because the cross is a symbol of Christianity in general. In Israel, they're called the Red Magen David:

 

[Doug]

...peace in Europe hasn't existed for long enough to be really considered permanent...

True, although all the major powers in Europe have been at peace with each other for around 60 years.

the last armed conflict we had before Bush was in the Balkans (hell, the South Ossetia War anyone? Though technically not Europe, not what we consider Asia or the Middle East)

South Ossetia and Georgia are definitely outside of Europe as far as I'm aware, although they are in the borderline cases list.

So, excluding that, the last conflict was the Kosovo air bombing campaign by NATO and America (I think it was) in 1999. Still, 60 years without any of the big players is probably a record or something for us.

 

[Avernus]

I just looked at how the votes have gone so far... Wow, most people are way more optimistic than I am. I'd say no simply based on how Middle Eastern countries were carved into being by imperialism, with no regard given to which sects/tribes were within their borders.

The problems are vast.

 

[Rigs83]

I will admit we (Christians) like to fuck things up a lot too, but compared to Jews and Muslims we're nothing over there. I think all we do is walk around and say "aren't you tired of this shit yet?"

well, that and actively encouraging Israel to establish a Jewish kingdom, rebuild the Temple, and fulfill the prophecy of the end times as foretold in the book of Revelation.

Israel's the problem. That and fundamentalist Islam.

*Israel wakes up* you know what I'll do today? Fuck up stability in the middle east and cause tension between Israelis and Arabs/Palestinians....

It is true that most of this is because of Islam...but we are also partially responsible. But now that I think about it, it is almost like this was all predetermined. I mean the thing that started all of this was the Cold war. Man we really need a rewind button. But if we all can agree on peace, then things won,t be so bad.Yep, that,ll be the day when Joseph Stalin will truly die.

Yep Judaism and Christianity are not to blame AT ALL. [/sarcasm]

I will admit we (Christians) like to fuck things up a lot too, but compared to Jews and Muslims we're nothing over there. I think all we do is walk around and say "aren't you tired of this shit yet?"

Excuse me! If it wasn't for the Crusades Muslims would not be so intent on recapturing Jerusalem. Hell Muslims are still telling their kids the horrors of the Crusades, that's why in Muslim Nations the Red Cross has to be called Red Crescent and use this
because the sight of a Red Cross was also the symbol of Crusaders.

uh, no. it's because the cross is a symbol of Christianity in general. In Israel, they're called the Red Magen David:
[/quote]

A cross is the symbol of Christianity but a Red Cross historically was the symbol Crusaders wore into battle.
[spoiler=Some photos of Medieval Crusaders][img=http://swordsandarmor.com/images/SH150-Crusader.JPG]http://swordsandarmor.com/images/SH150-Crusader.JPG[imghttp://www.crystalinks.com/crusader.gif]http://www.crystalinks.com/crusader.gif[/img][img=http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a274/aBlueKnight/Knights/Crusader1.jpg]http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a274/aBlueKnight/Knights/Crusader1.jpg[/img][/spoiler]

 

[LockHeart]

Hmm. So if both sides put their guns aside, talk about it, show respect, and shake hands the problem will just go away?

I like it. I just hope neither side is too stubborn to let it happen.

It won't, this make work for your average person, but muslim fundamentalists would never allow peace.

Please leave your bigotry at the door, we try to keep these forums an educated place.

Islam teaches peace. Don't puke out all that BS CNN and Fox tell you, because it makes no sense to judge teachings by their followers. Judging Islam by a few terrorists is like judging Catholicism for pedophile priests.

Note he said fundamentalists, i.e. Hamas and Hezbollah, not mainstream Muslims, which would fall under the 'average person' tag.

I'd say pretty much all religions teach peace... when they're not telling their followers to subdue or kill non-believers... All religions that 'preach peace' have cop-out clauses that the psychos can use to justify killing people.

 

[Rigs83]

I will admit we (Christians) like to fuck things up a lot too, but compared to Jews and Muslims we're nothing over there. I think all we do is walk around and say "aren't you tired of this shit yet?"

well, that and actively encouraging Israel to establish a Jewish kingdom, rebuild the Temple, and fulfill the prophecy of the end times as foretold in the book of Revelation.

Israel's the problem. That and fundamentalist Islam.

*Israel wakes up* you know what I'll do today? Fuck up stability in the middle east and cause tension between Israelis and Arabs/Palestinians....

It is true that most of this is because of Islam...but we are also partially responsible. But now that I think about it, it is almost like this was all predetermined. I mean the thing that started all of this was the Cold war. Man we really need a rewind button. But if we all can agree on peace, then things won,t be so bad.Yep, that,ll be the day when Joseph Stalin will truly die.

Yep Judaism and Christianity are not to blame AT ALL. [/sarcasm]

I will admit we (Christians) like to fuck things up a lot too, but compared to Jews and Muslims we're nothing over there. I think all we do is walk around and say "aren't you tired of this shit yet?"

Excuse me! If it wasn't for the Crusades Muslims would not be so intent on recapturing Jerusalem. Hell Muslims are still telling their kids the horrors of the Crusades, that's why in Muslim Nations the Red Cross has to be called Red Crescent and use this
because the sight of a Red Cross was also the symbol of Crusaders.

uh, no. it's because the cross is a symbol of Christianity in general. In Israel, they're called the Red Magen David:
[/quote]
The cross is the symbol of Christianity but the Red Cross historically was the banner and emblem Medieval Crusaders wore to battle.

 

[Goldbling]

Israel's the problem. That and fundamentalist Islam.

*Israel wakes up* you know what I'll do today? Fuck up stability in the middle east and cause tension between Israelis and Arabs/Palestinians....

It is true that most of this is because of Islam...but we are also partially responsible. But now that I think about it, it is almost like this was all predetermined. I mean the thing that started all of this was the Cold war. Man we really need a rewind button. But if we all can agree on peace, then things won,t be so bad.Yep, that,ll be the day when Joseph Stalin will truly die.

Yep Judaism and Christianity are not to blame AT ALL. [/sarcasm]

I will admit we (Christians) like to fuck things up a lot too, but compared to Jews and Muslims we're nothing over there. I think all we do is walk around and say "aren't you tired of this shit yet?"

Excuse me! If it wasn't for the Crusades Muslims would not be so intent on recapturing Jerusalem. Hell Muslims are still telling their kids the horrors of the Crusades, that's why in Muslim Nations the Red Cross [img=http://www.topnews.in/files/Red-Cross101.png]http://www.topnews.in/files/Red-Cross101.png[/img]
has to be called Red Crescent and use this
[img=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0f/Flag_of_the_Red_Crescent.svg/800px-Flag_of_the_Red_Crescent.svg.png]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0f/Flag_of_the_Red_Crescent.svg/800px-Flag_of_the_Red_Crescent.svg.png[/img]because the sight of a Red Cross was also the symbol of Crusaders.

True, but you can't blame tomorrows mistakes on today's people. I said we like to fuck things up, didn't I?

 

[Goldbling]

I will admit we (Christians) like to fuck things up a lot too, but compared to Jews and Muslims we're nothing over there. I think all we do is walk around and say "aren't you tired of this shit yet?"

well, that and actively encouraging Israel to establish a Jewish kingdom, rebuild the Temple, and fulfill the prophecy of the end times as foretold in the book of Revelation.

Really? It sounds like the passive crusades or something...

 

[creatiwe]

highly unlikely

 

[phi161]

What we need is a kick ass Peace Anthem

Spoiler

 

[Rigs83]

Spoiler: snip

Israel's the problem. That and fundamentalist Islam.

*Israel wakes up* you know what I'll do today? Fuck up stability in the middle east and cause tension between Israelis and Arabs/Palestinians....

It is true that most of this is because of Islam...but we are also partially responsible. But now that I think about it, it is almost like this was all predetermined. I mean the thing that started all of this was the Cold war. Man we really need a rewind button. But if we all can agree on peace, then things won,t be so bad.Yep, that,ll be the day when Joseph Stalin will truly die.

Yep Judaism and Christianity are not to blame AT ALL. [/sarcasm]

I will admit we (Christians) like to fuck things up a lot too, but compared to Jews and Muslims we're nothing over there. I think all we do is walk around and say "aren't you tired of this shit yet?"

Excuse me! If it wasn't for the Crusades Muslims would not be so intent on recapturing Jerusalem. Hell Muslims are still telling their kids the horrors of the Crusades, that's why in Muslim Nations the Red Cross [img=http://www.topnews.in/files/Red-Cross101.png]http://www.topnews.in/files/Red-Cross101.png[/img]
has to be called Red Crescent and use this
[img=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0f/Flag_of_the_Red_Crescent.svg/800px-Flag_of_the_Red_Crescent.svg.png]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0f/Flag_of_the_Red_Crescent.svg/800px-Flag_of_the_Red_Crescent.svg.png[/img]because the sight of a Red Cross was also the symbol of Crusaders.

True, but you can't blame tomorrows mistakes on today's people. I said we like to fuck things up, didn't I?

Pretty much all of humanities history is based on blaming people for stuff done in the past so your kids will look down on you and blame you for what ever goes wrong for them, to poorly quote Douglas Adams

People don't really like their ancestors and rarely invite them to dinner.

 

[BonsaiK]

I think the basic problem with the Middle East is this:

You've got at least three different major religions that all have their Holy City there. All these religions have factions in them which believe that THEY must exclusively control certain parts of the Middle East before the "final judgement" or "the rapture" or [insert fancy name for some cataclysmic event as foretold in the bible/koran/dead sea scrolls/whatever here] can happen.

Getting these people to agree on anything at all is very difficult, and they certainly don't want to compromise the temple mount or whatever. So they're going to be shooting at each other until they all either spontaneously decide to grow up and act like adults (unlikely), or until someone educates them (a little less likely, but not outside of the realms of possibility in the long term).

So ultimately education is the solution, really. Most people who take up arms for their religion aren't stunningly well educated, because if they were, they'd actually be able to READ their holy books and find all the bits about peace and loving your neighbour, and then maybe start asking a few questions...

 

[jahsol]

?Until the philosophy which holds one race superior and another inferior is finally and permanently discredited and abandoned, everywhere is war and until there are no longer first-class and second-class citizens of any nation, until the color of a man's skin is of no more significance than the color of his eyes. And until the basic human rights are equally guaranteed to all without regard to race, there is war. And until that day, the dream of lasting peace, world citizenship, rule of international morality, will remain but a fleeting illusion to be pursued, but never attained... now everywhere is war.? Haile Selassie I of Ethiopia address to the United Nations in 1963

I think race can be interchanged with religion and this statement would still be applicable.

No, peace will never be possible amongst humans no matter what region. Not in the foreseeable future at least.

 

[cobra_ky]

The cross is the symbol of Christianity but the Red Cross historically was the banner and emblem Medieval Crusaders wore to battle.

true, but the reason Muslim countries don't use the Red Cross is because it is a Christian symbol, not because of the crusades specifically. Countries like Malaysia and Bangladesh use the Red Crescent, even though the Crusades didn't affect them at all.

 

[cobra_ky]

I will admit we (Christians) like to fuck things up a lot too, but compared to Jews and Muslims we're nothing over there. I think all we do is walk around and say "aren't you tired of this shit yet?"

well, that and actively encouraging Israel to establish a Jewish kingdom, rebuild the Temple, and fulfill the prophecy of the end times as foretold in the book of Revelation.

Really? It sounds like the passive crusades or something...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism

 

[Naeo]

Islam has NOTHING to do with the problem.

The problem is the culture. There has never been even an attempted democracy over there until America decided "Hey, Iraq wants democracy!". It's always been dictators and kings and tyrants, for all of history. It's also been full of conflict that has nothing to do with religion.

The "issue" with Islam is the same issue with Christianity and all other religions. People use it as an excuse to take things to the next level and go kill people. These people do it from their culture and just use their religion as an excuse. Were Christianity dominant in the region, they'd use that as their excuse.

 

[Goldbling]

I will admit we (Christians) like to fuck things up a lot too, but compared to Jews and Muslims we're nothing over there. I think all we do is walk around and say "aren't you tired of this shit yet?"

well, that and actively encouraging Israel to establish a Jewish kingdom, rebuild the Temple, and fulfill the prophecy of the end times as foretold in the book of Revelation.

Really? It sounds like the passive crusades or something...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism

Interesting

 

[Jerious1154]

Fine, but I still think the muslims are worse.

You are vastly mistaken. Islam actually forbids all actions of terrorism and wanton violence, and the Qur'an says that if you kill an innocent, the same sin is on you as if you've killed all of mankind, and if you save an innocent, the same good is on you as if you've saved all of mankind.

That quote is originally from the Talmud.

Is it now? I have a copy of the Qur'an right here...

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Talmud
It's the first one on the page.

I don't doubt that it's in the Qur'an. But the origin of that quote is the Talmud.