Poll: Security Guards V.S. 12-year old punk

[HentMas]

Being an asshole isn't restricted to age. If that kid treats a security guard, a symbol of authority that way, let's take it a step further and wonder how he must treat his parents, teachers and fellow students. I'd say he's pretty damn lucky in this scenario and, if he's smart, he'll take the gentle lesson that was given to him gratefully.

Or should I point out that other video where the 12 year old was bullying an older kid and the guy picked him up and threw him down on the concrete? What he got here was a gentle slap on the hand, if he doesn't pick up on that, he's liable to get punched into a wall by someone far less nice.

oh god, yes please you just pointed out the mayor flaw on everyones argument about "he is just a little kid"

yes he is a little kid, but acting like a prick or an asshole should not be tolerated, if this is what he is doing to a security guard three times his size, imagine what he does to little kids!

 

[Schoengeist]

So you want the guards to do nothing and let the kids continue to risk their life?

Finally someone who knows what's going on. So were those kids climing on trains or
gliding down a handrail?

Where I come from there is something called defamation of a civil servant on duty, which those guys weren't and even if they were they should be professional enough to not take it seriously. If I'd get mad every time a kiddo acts stupid ... Assaulting is something different but that what I have seen in the video you can hardly call and assault. The whole situation is strange, with the guards having him detained and just standing there. What I would do if I were in the situation the guard is (heaven forbid) is to move a bit closer so he would be locked-in by the wall on one side and my body on the other. He's significantly lighter and has handcuffs on, so there is not much he can do anyway.

It doesn't matter why he did it. He chose to be a mouthy idiot and he was punished for it. I'm all for giving the kid a chance, but that doesn't mean absolving him of his actions. He made the choice, he must suffer the consequences of it.

The cause of his actions is, ultimately, irrelevant. There's nothing the security guard could have done about it, and there's nothing I can do about it. Honestly, the kid most likely just needs to be publicly humiliated a couple of times and he'll be fine.

Unacceptable behavior is unacceptable, no matter the reason. If the kid needs help, by all means help him, but don't you dare say that it excuses him for being a twat. Take that logic to its conclusion and everyone who's ever committed a crime is simply someone who has to "work out [their] feelings in a positive way". Circumstances driving someone to violate the social contract does not excuse them from the fact that they made the choice to do so.

Translation: "Nanana, I don't care what he did. The men with the black shiney boots are always right. And don't you try to reason with me, I have figured it all out. If he did nothing wrong, then why would he be in that situation? A figure of authority that acted out of line? That's unheard of!"

 

[anthony87]

That might be true in your country but in Sweden its considered abuse if you lay hands on your kid. So with our laws its actually the same.

That's government for you. We still have silly laws on the books here in the U.S., too. Like in Texas. If two trains come to a crossing, both must stop, and neither may proceed until the other has passed.

Well you might find it silly, but I find the notion that you should be allowed to slap somebody just because its your kid is pretty silly as well.

I'm curious, then. How would you go about teaching a child that there are consequences to their actions? Because in my experience time out, grounding, taking something away, etc. doesn't work. What's your idea, then?

Well I will most likely never get kids so hopefully I will never have to deal with it. But I guess I would treat them like people? And if it doesn't work, then why am i not a sociopath that doesnt respect authority and goes around beating people?

I do not know anyone that was spanked/abused when they was kid and guess what.. They are good people.

"Spanked" is NOT the same as "Abused".

Honestly, why is it so hard for people to grasp this concept?

 

[kickassfrog]

I totally support the guard there- the kid was way out of line.
Also, saying he shouldn't have done it because he's just a kid is BS- he chose to do the stupid stuff, why shouldn't he have to live with the consequences. It's letting people off with stuff like that which is why they grow up to get arrested all the damn time.

 

[Jake Lewis Clayton]

snip

snip

He's twelve, guys. TWELVE! Twelve. Years. Old. I get it, children are often annoying online and it's fun seeing the assholes who ruin your multiplayer gaming experience get a beating but that still doesn't change the fact that we're talking about a child here, not an adult.

You two keep talking about common sense and how at your age you understood bla and bla but did you really? I mean here you are, at an age when you're supposed to have "common sense", condoning violence against children and you have the audacity to claim you "understand" what common sense is? Really?

I think your forgetting the age of criminal responsibility in most places in europe is 10.

At 10 you are judged to know right from wrong and to suffer for any crimes you have commited, he was cuffed by the guards for something.

Then he assaults the security guard, at which point he could face a criminal charge and the possibility of a long lasting ban from the location he was at.

But instead the big hoohah among a few is how he was pushed to the floor to stop him from further acting up?



I'd hardly say putting someone on the ground in a safe way is violence.

 

[MrTub]

So you want the guards to do nothing and let the kids continue to risk their life?

Finally someone who knows what's going on. So were those kids climing on trains or
gliding down a handrail?

Where I come from there is something called defamation of a civil servant on duty, which those guys weren't and even if they were they should be professional enough to not take it seriously. If I'd get mad every time a kiddo acts stupid ... Assaulting is something different but that what I have seen in the video you can hardly call and assault. The whole situation is strange, with the guards having him detained and just standing there. What I would do if I were in the situation the guard is (heaven forbid) is to move a bit closer so he would be locked-in by the wall on one side and my body on the other. He's significantly lighter and has handcuffs on, so there is not much he can do anyway.

It doesn't matter why he did it. He chose to be a mouthy idiot and he was punished for it. I'm all for giving the kid a chance, but that doesn't mean absolving him of his actions. He made the choice, he must suffer the consequences of it.

The cause of his actions is, ultimately, irrelevant. There's nothing the security guard could have done about it, and there's nothing I can do about it. Honestly, the kid most likely just needs to be publicly humiliated a couple of times and he'll be fine.

Unacceptable behavior is unacceptable, no matter the reason. If the kid needs help, by all means help him, but don't you dare say that it excuses him for being a twat. Take that logic to its conclusion and everyone who's ever committed a crime is simply someone who has to "work out [their] feelings in a positive way". Circumstances driving someone to violate the social contract does not excuse them from the fact that they made the choice to do so.

Translation: "Nanana, I don't care what he did. The men with the black shiney boots are always right. And don't you try to reason with me, I have figured it all out. If he did nothing wrong, then why would he be in that situation? A figure of authority that acted out of line? That's unheard of!"

I linked a source earlier in this thread but here it is again

http://www.thelocal.se/36574/20111006/


"The incident took place last summer at the Slussen metro station after guards were called to deal with youngsters who were reportedly riding between the rail cars of the Saltsjöbanan tram line.

When the guards met up with the 12-year-old and his friends, the situation quickly turned heated."

?I climbed between the cars, and then went in again. Then they came up and said, 'follow us, don't resist',? the boy told Sveriges Television (SVT)."

And like I said, kicking somebody is assault in Sweden and he also says he will murder the guard (which also is illegal) and he also calls the guard whore (which Im pretty sure is against the law as well)

 

[Agayek]

Well I will most likely never get kids so hopefully I will never have to deal with it. But I guess I would treat them like people? And if it doesn't work, then why am i not a sociopath that doesnt respect authority and goes around beating people?

Most likely because of a combination of the fact that your parents were responsible enough to give a proper example, and because you were/are not naturally inclined to be a twat. Just a guess, but it's likely to be true.

Unfortunately, such a combination is surprisingly rare, due to some combination of irresponsibility, stupidity or simple mistakes.

 

[Jonluw]

The kid was being an ass. The security guard acted so as to make his being an ass not cause further issues.
I see no problems here.

 

[iNsaneMilesy]

I'm a cop and I'm 23. I can say the guard was well within his job description to do that. He subdued the little shit. I can tell you when you work in law enforcement you have to deal with societies ratbags and shit heads on a daily basis, while most of us are peaceful and dislike violence, we often relish the opportunity to mess with people who try to mess with us. Makes the job fun and serves the purpose in making them realise they cant get away with unacceptable behaviour... besides kids thesedays on average are undisiplined with no respect. Maybe if parents would actually do something we wouldn't have to.

 

[MrTub]

That might be true in your country but in Sweden its considered abuse if you lay hands on your kid. So with our laws its actually the same.

That's government for you. We still have silly laws on the books here in the U.S., too. Like in Texas. If two trains come to a crossing, both must stop, and neither may proceed until the other has passed.

Well you might find it silly, but I find the notion that you should be allowed to slap somebody just because its your kid is pretty silly as well.

I'm curious, then. How would you go about teaching a child that there are consequences to their actions? Because in my experience time out, grounding, taking something away, etc. doesn't work. What's your idea, then?

Well I will most likely never get kids so hopefully I will never have to deal with it. But I guess I would treat them like people? And if it doesn't work, then why am i not a sociopath that doesnt respect authority and goes around beating people?

I do not know anyone that was spanked/abused when they was kid and guess what.. They are good people.

"Spanked" is NOT the same as "Abused".

Honestly, why is it so hard for people to grasp this concept?

Why is it so hard for you to understand that spanking somebody is ABUSE IN SWEDEN.

 

[JochemDude]

The people who voted Yes on this are idiots... but idiots have a right to their opinion so I can respect that... I guess.

That's some Fox News level ignorance right there.

 

[Qitz]

Maybe I'm missing something but all I saw was a Security Guard put a kid on the ground and kneel on him. They do this to anyone whose acting irrational or violent. Swearing, threats of violence, spitting, ECT are all reasons for you to have a guard pin you down.

 

[anthony87]

That might be true in your country but in Sweden its considered abuse if you lay hands on your kid. So with our laws its actually the same.

That's government for you. We still have silly laws on the books here in the U.S., too. Like in Texas. If two trains come to a crossing, both must stop, and neither may proceed until the other has passed.

Well you might find it silly, but I find the notion that you should be allowed to slap somebody just because its your kid is pretty silly as well.

I'm curious, then. How would you go about teaching a child that there are consequences to their actions? Because in my experience time out, grounding, taking something away, etc. doesn't work. What's your idea, then?

Well I will most likely never get kids so hopefully I will never have to deal with it. But I guess I would treat them like people? And if it doesn't work, then why am i not a sociopath that doesnt respect authority and goes around beating people?

I do not know anyone that was spanked/abused when they was kid and guess what.. They are good people.

"Spanked" is NOT the same as "Abused".

Honestly, why is it so hard for people to grasp this concept?

Why is it so hard for you to understand that spanking somebody is ABUSE IN SWEDEN.

....Because I'm not Swedish?

 

[Raddra]

The media is taking the side of the little butthole?

Why? He's evidently being an abusive disrespectful twit.

A 12 year old is WELL able to understand what he is doing and consequences.

 

[Agayek]

Translation: "Nanana, I don't care what he did. The men with the black shiney boots are always right. And don't you try to reason with me, I have figured it all out. If he did nothing wrong, then why would he be in that situation? A figure of authority that acted out of line? That's unheard of!"

Actually no. Fuck the government, fuck the police, and fuck organization. I am a vehement anarcho-libertarian. If I had my way, there wouldn't be a government.

That said, I'm also a huge proponent of personal responsibility. The kid made a choice to act like a twat, knowing the potential fallout. He should face the consequences of it.

Honestly, in a perfect world that kid would have gotten himself killed by a train and no one would have batted an eye, but we don't live in such a place.

 

[Thistlehart]

That might be true in your country but in Sweden its considered abuse if you lay hands on your kid. So with our laws its actually the same.

That's government for you. We still have silly laws on the books here in the U.S., too. Like in Texas. If two trains come to a crossing, both must stop, and neither may proceed until the other has passed.

Well you might find it silly, but I find the notion that you should be allowed to slap somebody just because its your kid is pretty silly as well.

I'm curious, then. How would you go about teaching a child that there are consequences to their actions? Because in my experience time out, grounding, taking something away, etc. doesn't work. What's your idea, then?

Well I will most likely never get kids so hopefully I will never have to deal with it. But I guess I would treat them like people? And if it doesn't work, then why am i not a sociopath that doesnt respect authority and goes around beating people?

I do not know anyone that was spanked/abused when they was kid and guess what.. They are good people.

You present a valid point, and I thank you for that (I also respect your intention to avoid having children), but you still did not answer my question. "Treat them like people" is vague and imprecise. How would you treat them like people, and how would this influence them? Cause and effect, action and consequence, how would you teach these concepts to someone with a child's understanding of the world; someone who is driven by id and impulse and will not believe the stove is hot until they put their hand on it?

 

[MrTub]

That might be true in your country but in Sweden its considered abuse if you lay hands on your kid. So with our laws its actually the same.

That's government for you. We still have silly laws on the books here in the U.S., too. Like in Texas. If two trains come to a crossing, both must stop, and neither may proceed until the other has passed.

Well you might find it silly, but I find the notion that you should be allowed to slap somebody just because its your kid is pretty silly as well.

I'm curious, then. How would you go about teaching a child that there are consequences to their actions? Because in my experience time out, grounding, taking something away, etc. doesn't work. What's your idea, then?

Well I will most likely never get kids so hopefully I will never have to deal with it. But I guess I would treat them like people? And if it doesn't work, then why am i not a sociopath that doesnt respect authority and goes around beating people?

I do not know anyone that was spanked/abused when they was kid and guess what.. They are good people.

"Spanked" is NOT the same as "Abused".

Honestly, why is it so hard for people to grasp this concept?

Why is it so hard for you to understand that spanking somebody is ABUSE IN SWEDEN.

....Because I'm not Swedish?

So? I am swedish and therefor I see it as abuse, should I change my opinion so it can fit your view better or?

 

[Fledge]

I think it was the right thing to do.
But, I'm not sure it going through the kid's bag was okay.

 

[Snipercam7]

Would the bleeding hearts rather that the little shit got killed by a train?

Or got someone else killed?

Or many other people killed?

Would you be saying it's not his fault that people died because he caused something to happen, or would you be saying he should have known better?

 

[Celtic_Kerr]

Lets see:
Kid kicking the guard? Thats called attempt at self-defence.
Dragging feet? Normal thing to do if you are dragged against your will.

The guard drawing the baton: Way out of line and if the laws in Sweden are anywhere near those in Denmark then hitting the kid (no matter how hard) constitutes assault on a kid and that is illegal.
All a private guard is allowed to do is restrain a person. Not use force.

So no matter what the kid do the guards are way out of line. If they where threatened they should call the police.

Guards probably took the batons out in order to keep anyone who decided to take a slightly more violent whack at them at bay. Not way out of line. Notice he just leaned on it, all it says is "I'm restraining your friend for a reason. You were yelling at me before, don't make this escalate". He made no threatening movements.

Funfact #1: It takes between 6 - 16 pounds of sudden pressure to break someone's knee (google it). The way the kid was moving, he was gonna put a whole lot more than that on it. If anyone has me in that kind of the hold and I want to get out, I'd do the same thing. Kid was harassing him, may not have hurt yet, but the security guard had a bunch of people yelling and threatening them on one side, and someone to keep under control on the other. He has the right to restrain the kid in the most efficient and effective manner possible.

Oh, and guards EVERYWHERE have the right to use the FORCE NECESSARY TO RESTRAIN. Based off the kid dangling his feet, he wasn't about to let the guard gently guide him to the ground.
Why are so many people acting like the guard slammed him one in the gut