Poll: Should Kids Be Allowed To Carry Guns?

hiroshi_tea

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Mar 28, 2009
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i can't really vote on this poll...there's not enough options.
the current state of thins is actually really good when it comes to kids (under 21). Parents can teach their children (under 21) how to shoot and such at young ages, but they can't carry their guns around publicly.
i think that's a very good deal, and not really restrictive on right to bear arms.
 

CmdrKinslayer

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Jan 9, 2008
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hiroshi_tea said:
by throwing a few gun owners into the mix of a population, you help protect it. not everyone would need a gun to warrant this benefit. if there's enough doubt in a criminal's mind when it comes to survival, they'd rather move to a city where there are less armed prey.
This is important to understand. If the criminal only has a 0-5% chance of attacking someone who has a gun, then he's gonna go for it. If that goes up to 25-50%, then he's thinking about it. 50%+, he's not a criminal anymore.

It's more of a deterrent than anything. Criminals aren't dumb; some of them are the smartest among us. They know when it's stupid to do something, unless they have some mental condition.
 

LooK iTz Jinjo

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Feb 22, 2009
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CmdrKinslayer said:
You know, I'm disappointed. I would've thought a forum that parades itself as being more "mature" would recognize that you don't have an epiphany and become wise the second you turn 18/21/whatever. Let me put this into perspective for you all:

- I am 17 years old, 11th Grade.
- I live in Northern Virginia (Fairfax County for all of you up there), one of the most liberal places in the world.
- I am taking the most rigorous classes available at my school, along with the International Baccalaureate Diploma program.
- I am earning an unweighted 4.0 GPA (Straight A's).
- I'm not a social outcast (because I know that's what you're all thinking right now).
- I like to think that I'm reasonably mature and I hate being treated like a "child". What makes that 21 year old so different than me?

Let's think about a few things for a minute: Columbine, VA Tech shootings, etc. It's the classic case of the lawful being punished because they decided to follow the law, while the unlawful have a field day. What if a student per every two or three classes was carrying? Would the situation have turned out any different? I don't know, it's mere speculation, but what I DO know is that SOMETHING WOULD HAVE HAPPENED. There would've been a chance, instead of being picked off at the shooting gallery. And you know what? Nobody even has to know, besides the administrators, that the kid has a gun. Bill could be carrying, and when a crisis such as the VA Tech shooting arises, he is able to protect the rest of the class. I'm not saying an elementary school or middle school kid should be allowed to carry, but when you get to the age group where you have to start taking responsibility, you grow up real fast. Checks could be involved where you had to declare your weapon to the administrators; if they felt that you were not suitable to carry, since your counselor gets to know you VERY well by that age, they would not allow you to on the school property (or perhaps refuse you ownership at all).

By the way, we aren't as fucking shallow as you think we are. We UNDERSTAND and REALIZE the consequences of our actions as well, if not better than adults (as the results are more extreme and more sudden). We aren't going to randomly point a gun at someone and pull the trigger because "we don't like them". We aren't insane, we aren't nuts, and it really irks me how half of you are implying this. Get off your soap box and go spew your hate somewhere else, because those of us who care are HIGHLY irritated by it.

To all those who are saying "WELL CHECKS IN THE PAST HAVE FAILED!!1!!1", those are usually a result of negligence (in terms of gun ownership) on the part of the examiner, or simple ignorance of the rules. If something like this were to be instated, there would be multiple checks, such as required checks and meetings with school administrators, psychologists, and a training program. It's common sense. By the way, what stops a kid who is really determined to "GET THAT FAG0T" from bringing in a gun illegally? Wouldn't he do it REGARDLESS if it's illegal or not? Murder, attempted murder, assault with a deadly weapon, etc. are all crimes too, so if you go the route that "It's a crime, so they won't do it!", then it works either way.

Keep in mind that I'm not suggesting every 13 year old gets one; far from it. Only those who have shown themselves to be mature should be even considered, and that probably starts around the age of 16.

By the way: My family does not own a firearm, nor have I ever fired one. So I'm not biased in any way towards that.

...

...

You're an idiot. Like I said in my previous post, and people ACTUALLY WONDER why there is such a problem! Wow dude with retards like you in the states I'm so rushing over, get myself shot! Well I'm glad that our generation has got such a bright future when retards like you get in the White House. I have to say, I'd have thought that considering that you talk yourself up so much as being intelligent and intellectual that you would be a little... smarter. But clearly I was wrong. In case you haven't noticed, most of the problems in this world are caused by guns and violence and considering you live in such a liberal place in the most gun active country in the world one might be forgiven for thinking you could well, stop and think.
 

SyphonX

Coffee Bandit
Mar 22, 2009
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ExodusinFlames said:
SyphonX said:
Have fun sicking your dog on an assailant because he'll most likely have a knife, so you'll probably have to watch the pet get horribly cut and stabbed. So when it's your turn, I hope you got at least a knife, bud.
See here, you've really shown your true character there. Such an good, wholesome person.
My character? I'm not the one saying I'll use a dog to distract a criminal my friend. I'll never be in that situation. I'm simply pointing out to you, what could happen should you use a pet in a situation like a home invasion. That's reality, tough as it is to swallow.

You continue to choose to waive your right in owning a firearm and I'll continue to exercise my right to choose to own one. That's all I'm going to say on this matter..
 

CmdrKinslayer

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Jan 9, 2008
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LooK iTz Jinjo said:
You're an idiot. Like I said in my previous post, and people ACTUALLY WONDER why there is such a problem! Wow dude with retards like you in the states I'm so rushing over, get myself shot! Well I'm glad that our generation has got such a bright future when retards like you get in the White House. I have to say, I'd have thought that considering that you talk yourself up so much as being intelligent and intellectual that you would be a little... smarter. But clearly I was wrong. In case you haven't noticed, most of the problems in this world are caused by guns and violence and considering you live in such a liberal place in the most gun active country in the world one might be forgiven for thinking you could well, stop and think.
Oh irony, how I love thee.

You call me an idiot, yet you use baseless hyperbole, accusations, and insults to support a nonexistant argument.

Please stay "over there", wherever that is. We don't need more people like you here. (I'm assuming you don't live in the States by your phrase 'rushing over').
 

Samurai Goomba

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Oct 7, 2008
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CmdrKinslayer said:
Samurai Goomba said:
People who break laws to commit crimes will break the gun laws too, but at least when bringing guns to school is illegal the teachers can just instantly nab a kid who has one. If everyone was allowed to bring them, there'd be even less warning for when a shooting broke out. Everyone would be constantly looking over their shoulder. And God forbid a bully somehow got his hands on one. Plus, "good" kids could let their "bad" friends borrow the guns. A better idea to prevent school shootings would be to arm teachers, not students. 44 year-old Ralf the High School Professor of Biology is probably more mature than 14 year-old Bobby Johnson, regardless of whether he's a straight-A student or not.

I was a mature kid too, but most of my friends weren't and still aren't. The selection process you mentioned is just ripe for abuse, particularly if the people denied guns happened to be some sort of minority group. They could sue on the basis of discrimination (regardless of whether it was true or not) and get their guns and some money, to boot.
You're missing a major point though; nobody would know the "good" kid had it, so peer pressure wouldn't be an issue. He wouldn't be allowed to carry if he made a scene out of it or was found sharing it. The teacher could still nab the kid for seeing the gun, as the kid wouldn't be allowed to show it; perhaps the teachers would have a list of those who were allowed so they didn't go apeshit after they saw it. Maybe I'm thinking of a Utopia, but I don't think much would change; nobody would know who had one besides the higher ups, and nobody would care, because as far as they know, nobody passed the test.

I was thinking about the teacher carrying as well, but then you have abuse accusations there as well. What if Bobby claims that Ralf pulled the gun on him during detention to make him behave? There's no way to verify it either way, so what happens? If it were in the hands of the students, nobody would know who was carrying or not so any claim would have a large, large probability of being false, and the student who made the accusation would be punished. As for the minority group abuse lawsuits, I don't think that would be a problem, because again, they wouldn't know who passed. For all they know, EVERYONE failed.

Samurai Goomba said:
Bottom line: it just won't work. Oh, and stop putting words in our mouths. I, at least, did not say a single word about "hating" anyone on the basis of their age. I'm not on a soap box, and I'm not preaching. I'm telling you that this idea simply will not work. It's a "perfect world" scenario, and this is certainly no perfect world we have here. Either it's guns for all kids (not all ages of all kids, but all kids of the age specified) or guns for none of them (only way to be fair and avoid lawsuits here in America).
I was directing that comment at those who were saying "fucking kids" in so many words; apologies if it seemed like a generalized statement.
People would know, trust me. One of the higher-ups would leak it to the PTA, then the PTA would have a cow about inequality and preferential treatment, then before you know it it's guns for everyone's kids (or guns for nobody's, more likely, but whatever). You can't keep secrets from parents in PUBLIC school about their kids (or the kids of their classmates, when it comes to an issue like the kid sitting next to their little Timmy having a pistol in his inside jacket pocket during homeroom.)

And the kid could tell all the people he wanted to about the gun, the only problem (for him) is if he got caught. School justice isn't immediate. By the time he was caught showing the gun to his best friend or telling his girlfriend about it, the damage has already been done.

You'd need an X-Files "smoking man" level of secrecy and cover up for this idea to work. Once ONE parent finds out, you've got chaos. Besides, what about all the bad parents out there that want to abuse this rule to get guns for themselves (like paying their kid's friends to "lose" their guns)? I'm talking about would-be parole violators, gangbangers and the like. It's not like those people don't have kids that go to public school. I knew some kids and families like that growing up.

Maybe if the entire fabric of reality shifted and people started to act in a responsible manner and realize when they are and aren't be mature enough to handle a gun this plan could work. As it is, the selection process for deciding who got guns could never be selective/picky enough or completely corruption-free (on either end) for it to be a viable option.
 

ExodusinFlames

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Apr 19, 2009
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Regardless of what the big views are, we seem to have all gotten off topic with pointless pissing contests of who is smarter/stupider and why.

The Poll itself was "Should Kids be Allowed to carry guns" Lets keep it at that perhaps.
There will never be a solid resolution I'm sure, given the fact that there are alot of people from many different walks, and to wave your junk around about it is redundant. I smug feeling of self satisfaction at slapping someone around with logic seems lacking over the internet, for some reason.
 

hiroshi_tea

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Mar 28, 2009
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You're an idiot. Like I said in my previous post, and people ACTUALLY WONDER why there is such a problem! Wow dude with retards like you in the states I'm so rushing over, get myself shot! Well I'm glad that our generation has got such a bright future when retards like you get in the White House. I have to say, I'd have thought that considering that you talk yourself up so much as being intelligent and intellectual that you would be a little... smarter. But clearly I was wrong. In case you haven't noticed, most of the problems in this world are caused by guns and violence and considering you live in such a liberal place in the most gun active country in the world one might be forgiven for thinking you could well, stop and think.
Violence has never been new, but the tools have changed. There were swords, now there are guns. i reckon that if you remove all the guns (which is impossible to do because you'll never force other countries to give up their weapons exports), people will go back to stabbing each other. Take a look at the UK for a good example. the coppers now have to carry guns. Gun ban and most people still aren't happy. Aggression is a human state, and no doubt aggression and violence will be present no matter what manner of weapon you take away from the populace

Now, consider the demographics of USA. Can you really blame it on guns alone? or is it just a catalyst. USA is a melting pot of different cultures, more so than most other developed countries. We have more people, more ghettos, more drug problems, racial issues. To be honest, are these guns involved in violence being obtained legally? It's illegal to murder, but people still do it. it may become illegal to own a gun, but will it stop the peopl that don't listen to the law already? There's a point where you can't keep blaming the guns for the violence. You need to look at the people involved. USA has millions of legally owned firearms, and the numbers have been climbing ever since the Obama election. however the violence rate has remained the same or even dropped. Correlation is not causation, but in this case, there is no correlation between guns and violence

now, we are civilized
 

Sparcrypt

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Oct 17, 2007
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Two kids get in a fight, the worst that USUALLY happens is one gets a little beat up. Sometimes badly beaten up. Very rarely (compared to the amount of beatings), beaten to death.

What you think will happen if you can all of a sudden pull a gun and shoot the other guy? Kids don't think, they are hormonal and act rashly without considering the fallout.

So yeah. NO.
 

LooK iTz Jinjo

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Feb 22, 2009
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CmdrKinslayer said:
LooK iTz Jinjo said:
You're an idiot. Like I said in my previous post, and people ACTUALLY WONDER why there is such a problem! Wow dude with retards like you in the states I'm so rushing over, get myself shot! Well I'm glad that our generation has got such a bright future when retards like you get in the White House. I have to say, I'd have thought that considering that you talk yourself up so much as being intelligent and intellectual that you would be a little... smarter. But clearly I was wrong. In case you haven't noticed, most of the problems in this world are caused by guns and violence and considering you live in such a liberal place in the most gun active country in the world one might be forgiven for thinking you could well, stop and think.
Oh irony, how I love thee.

You call me an idiot, yet you use baseless hyperbole, accusations, and insults to support a nonexistant argument.

Please stay "over there", wherever that is. We don't need more people like you here.
Baseless? Non-existent!? Firstly I made a prior post in which I voiced my opinion and shared my valid argument, which you clearly missed, this post was simply to call you an idiot.
Secondly. Are you living under a rock? Do you not pay attention to the fucked up place that is earth and our society? I'm not saying that removing of guns will solve all our problems, but giving kids guns will solve NONE and create more. If an adult can't be trusted to carry a gun how can a child? Simple nobody can. And just pointing out the fact that you act all high and mighty, like some intellectual superior when your 17, you brag about how smart you are and how you get straight A's, yeah big fucking whoop! Means nothing here mate, nothing.

And by the way, you might not be shallow, you might understand and realize, but i can guarantee you one thing. You're one in a fucking million because most kids under 18 don't understand how to vote, let alone the responsibilities of owning a gun.
 

Twilight_guy

Sight, Sound, and Mind
Nov 24, 2008
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No. Adults with guns wind up killing themselves more often then a "bad guy". Kids with guns would be even worse because it would be children dieing due to accidental gun discharge.
 

Captain Blackout

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Feb 17, 2009
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link670 said:
Short answer
No
Long Answer
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Who would say yes to this?
Because this answer can't be said enough!
 

JMeganSnow

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Aug 27, 2008
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Allowed by whom? Allowed to carry what type of guns where?

As far as I'm concerned, the only legal restrictions it is correct to place on youngsters are that they are possibly not allowed to make certain kinds of *purchases*. Other than that, it's up to their parents and the legally responsible adults when they aren't with their parents to determine whether a minor carrying a gun is allowed in a certain place/situation. The owner of a gun range or a hunting acreage might not be bothered by minors with contextually-appropriate guns and adult supervision (or even older, responsible minors by themselves). The owner of a shopping mall, on the other hand, might find this problematic.

Just one more example where letting people sort themselves out in an orderly way is the best solution.
 

hiroshi_tea

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Mar 28, 2009
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Twilight_guy said:
No. Adults with guns wind up killing themselves more often then a "bad guy". Kids with guns would be even worse because it would be children dieing due to accidental gun discharge.
Because people don't teach kids that pointing guns at other people is bad. It's kinda like why no kid today like throwing knives at other kids just to try it out. It's a parental/education issue. God, we teach kids how to use condoms and stick poison stickers on household cleaning items. Why not teach them something simple like how to not shoot your friend or self in the head?

Cultures well integrated with guns have a much less issue with this. It's when the society refuses to consider teaching their kids about basic safety. There are programs for this at the NRA, what to teach your kids if they ever run into a gun. It's ignorance that kills

now, current USA gun statues are fine. Youngsters can't carry guns around until 21. that takes care of most of the issues.
 

hiroshi_tea

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Mar 28, 2009
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LooK iTz Jinjo said:
CmdrKinslayer said:
LooK iTz Jinjo said:
You're an idiot. Like I said in my previous post, and people ACTUALLY WONDER why there is such a problem! Wow dude with retards like you in the states I'm so rushing over, get myself shot! Well I'm glad that our generation has got such a bright future when retards like you get in the White House. I have to say, I'd have thought that considering that you talk yourself up so much as being intelligent and intellectual that you would be a little... smarter. But clearly I was wrong. In case you haven't noticed, most of the problems in this world are caused by guns and violence and considering you live in such a liberal place in the most gun active country in the world one might be forgiven for thinking you could well, stop and think.
Oh irony, how I love thee.

You call me an idiot, yet you use baseless hyperbole, accusations, and insults to support a nonexistant argument.

Please stay "over there", wherever that is. We don't need more people like you here.
Baseless? Non-existent!? Firstly I made a prior post in which I voiced my opinion and shared my valid argument, which you clearly missed, this post was simply to call you an idiot.
Secondly. Are you living under a rock? Do you not pay attention to the fucked up place that is earth and our society? I'm not saying that removing of guns will solve all our problems, but giving kids guns will solve NONE and create more. If an adult can't be trusted to carry a gun how can a child? Simple nobody can. And just pointing out the fact that you act all high and mighty, like some intellectual superior when your 17, you brag about how smart you are and how you get straight A's, yeah big fucking whoop! Means nothing here mate, nothing.

And by the way, you might not be shallow, you might understand and realize, but i can guarantee you one thing. You're one in a fucking million because most kids under 18 don't understand how to vote, let alone the responsibilities of owning a gun.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.109079?page=6#1858058
if you want a fish to fry, here's a coherent respectful answer
 

SmogCzar

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Feb 3, 2009
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http://clintongunban.com/FactSheets.aspx?i=160&a=Fact%20Sheet

This is a nice little fact sheet put together by the NRA-ILA about the Clinton AWB of 1994 for those of you who want an all out gun ban. This will tell you why it won't work. I would have to agree with Samurai Goomba and CmdrKinslayer. Minors shouldn't be and aren't allowed to carry. I am of the age that I can legally buy everything the Bureau for All Things Fun allows. I took hunter's education and learned about proper firearm safety from my dad. I am planning to apply for a concealed carry license when the next class comes around. I also plane on keeping my nose clean so I can fully exercise my constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms. It was this right that allowed us to win our independence but keep it from the British during the war of 1812. There is gun crime in Britain and they virtually have a gun ban. Banning guns will do nothing, but what do I know I am, after all, a right-wing extremist who clings to his guns and religion.