trouble_gum said:
In-game lore covering the events of the Great War indicates that at least part of the Redguard success lay in the state of Aldmeri military forces at the time - the Redguard were fighting the remnants of the Aldmer Dominion's invasion force which had been defeated at the Battle of Red Ring. To say they did so "very successfully" is somewhat contradicted by the in-lore source which indicates most of southern Hammerfell was "devastated."
They single-handedly drove out the Dominion in 5 years, despite the Empire literally giving the land away to the Thalmor. If that isn't "successful" then nothing is.
And, in this, the Thalmor further drove apart the Empire and Hammerfell. If Skyrim also secedes from the Empire, you then have three seperate states where before you had a unified Empire. That unified Empire was able to fight the Aldmer Dominion to a standstill, albeit at great cost and without a truly resounding victory that would've meant a better outcome of the White-Gold Concordat. It can be inferred from in-game lore that this divided humanity is precisely what the Thalmor want; because it's easier to invade Hammerfell on its own that it proved to be to invade the Empire.
The Thalmor wanted the war in the first place, that's true, as it weakened both the Empire and Skyrim. They
don't want Ulfric to win however, and this doesn't need to be "inferred from in-game lore", they literally say it themselves. "A Stormcloak victory is also to be avoided, however, so even indirect aid to the Stormcloaks must be carefully managed.".
They wanted the war to happen, and now they want it to continue. Helping the Stormcloaks to
win is of no benefit to them at all.
It's classic Divide and Conquer - The Empire turned out not be the easy victory the Thalmor seemed to expect. Solution: drive its constituent parts away from the whole and gobble them up piecemeal. Even easier if Skyrim has spent several years engaged in bloody civil war; weakening it and the Empire into the bargain. You can't simply assert that Skyrim can protect itself, and trying to argue that the continued well-being of the whole (i.e, the Empire) is of no protection to the parts lacks credence. The combined forces of the Imperial military, from Cyrodiil, High Rock, Hammerfell and Skyrim barely stopped the Thalmor invasion. Individually, they surely stand far less chance against a full-scale invasion force.
Agreed, and it's already been highly successful. They no longer have Hammerfell, Elsweyr, or Black Marsh, not to mention the Summerset Isles, Morrowind, and Valenwood which were all previously parts of the Empire too. What's left simply cannot hold off the Ald'meri Dominion. Perhaps if they had continued to fight back when they had Hammerfell and Skyrim strongly at their side they maybe could have done it, but no, they surrendered, causing them to lose even more of their allies.
Now what do they have left? There's Cyrodiil, Skyrim and High Rock. That's it, and they don't even really control Skyrim any more. I don't know much about High Rock, and whether or not they still fully support the Empire or even if they have a strong enough military presence to make a real difference, so I can't really comment on them. Really this is just about the people of Cyrodiil wanting the people of Skyrim to protect them from the Ald'meri, which brings my to my next point. Why should they?
The assertion that the Empire didn't sacrifice lives is somewhat absurd: "Not a single legion had more than half its soldiers fit for duty. Two legions had been effectively annihilated, not counting the loss of the Eighth during the retreat from the Imperial City." Cyrodiil and the Imperial City were ravaged; the Imperial Palace sacked and burned. The Imperial Legions have been decimated. Skyrim takes place only 25 years after the end of the Great War - the Empire is probably just about back on its feet; no wonder the Thalmor are so keen on stirring up trouble between the Empire and Skyrim, hunting for people illegally worshiping Talos and generally poking their noses in everywhere.
I never said they didn't sacrifice any lives, I said they didn't sacrifice lives
for Skyrim, or for any of the other Imperial provinces in fact. When the Imperial city was conquered they could have kept fighting, for the good of the Empire as a whole. The people of Hammerfell and Skyrim would have gladly continued fighting for the Empire, but the Empire apparently cares only about Cyrodiil, because they surrendered and
even gave away Hammerfell lands to do it. They bought back their lands at the cost of their god and the lands of their provinces. It's clear where their priorities are.
If the Imperials consider their lands and their people to be of greater importance than the Empire as a whole then why the hell should its (few remaining) provinces act any differently? When the time came the Imperials did not give their lives to protect Skyrim or Hammerfell, and yet they still expect the people of Skyrim to give their lives to protect Cyrodiil?
Skyrim owes no loyalties to an Empire that has already turned its back on them, banned the worship of their gods, and let a foreign inquisition torture and kill Skyrim citizens in return for some temporary protection of their own lands. How
anyone still supports them is beyond me.
