Poll: Skyrim: The Armour complaint.

[madwarper]

I'm not really concerned about combining of the body/leg armor, as much as I concerned about losing an item to enchant.

Though, they can either allow me to enchant the same armor piece with multiple enchantments, or realize that I have 10 fingers and 10 toes and allow me to equip more than just 2 rings.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Now, that said, this doesn't strike me as a big issue. But it sucks seeing player choice and options being stripped away. As others have said, Morrowind had more options then Oblivion and now Oblivion more then Skyrim.

I think this is mostly true. Stealth became a lot more viable in Oblivion, but we also lost flight, spears, damage attribute, enchant, and so on. OTOH, it looks like they are in general expanding the options melee has in Skyrim, so I think that on balance your average armor-wearer is going to be better off.

 

[Loonyyy]

It's just that it's a removal of depth. It makes things simpler, but the simplicity makes the game less interesting.
In Morrowind, you could have clothes and Armour, stacking stats and bonuses, and making interesting gameplay mechanics. In Oblivion, you couldn't, making some question, why is there even clothing? No-one will wear it, it's a pointless layer of depth.
If you take out all the detail and complexity, you end up with a game that's barely worth playing as an RPG and might as well be a simple hack and slash, fine games on their own, but not what fans want for The Elder Scrolls.

Also, while having more stuff seems like something which will be harder to learn, TES: Morrowind was my first proper RPG, and I learnt quick, and had more fun in the complex and interesting environment with the many options than I did in Oblivion, especially once I realised the auto-leveling in Oblivion effectively prevented my usual Jack of All Trades approach (I rarely make more than 1 whole play through, and only usually will make 2 or 3 characters) and discovered that being competent with blades, destruction and bows, with a decent Sneak skill, as well as developing some Alteration abilities, basically made everything impossible to kill without backpedalling madly on my over levelled Athletics skill to lob fireballs at most everything.

Streamlining is making the menus possible to use and the level paths make sense, whilst "Dumbing Down" is the removal of gameplay simply to make the game simpler.

In this case, you remove the ability to mix and match, and simplify further the choice in armour. This limits play styles and strategic decisions, and may force the player to play in a way they did not intend, and become railroaded.
The only solution that they can do, keeping this system, in my opinion (there may be other, better solutions) is to add in more variety in the kit available to the player.

 

[Slowpool]

"In most of the Nordic designs we created, the upper armor would completely cover the lower armor, making it unnecessary."

This is what I have a problem with. They're talking about armor like people only use it for how it looks and not for, you know, the stats.

I used the Elven Armor well into level 40 and I was unbeatable. The stats don't really mean much, compared to what you have to look at for however long you're wearing it. I'd much rather have nicer looking armor with lower stats than trashy looking armor with higher stats, since you can overcome the stat difference by not being bad at the game.

 

[Stall]

What does this have to do with pants?

What do you mean? Are you quoting me just for a chance to use that bad joke? It's pretty clear what my comment has to do with this thread.

Its less customization. Oblivion decreased the armor slots from 11 to 6 (I think it was 11), and now it is down to 5. Skills and stats are being constantly mutilated and stripped. There's a huge difference "action game with RPG elements" and "action RPG"... Bethesda is intent on pushing that difference as far as they can. I sincerely doubt they give a shit about making their game an RPG anymore. They just want to make a shallow and pointless action game under the pretense of an RPG to sell to the masses. Fucking sell-outs.

Five seperate pieces of armor could actually be considered an improvement, seeing as Fallout 3 had a grand total of three armor slots (counting glasses as a type of armor). As long as I can have asymmetrical arms, I'm happy.

Morrowind was the last TES game that let you have asymmetrical arms, IIRC (talking about vanilla versions of the game, of course).

 

[Gaiseric]

This is what I have a problem with. They're talking about armor like people only use it for how it looks and not for, you know, the stats.

I'm going to come out and say it..

Does anyone wear armour in Oblivion? Why would you when you can just buy/make a high level shield spell, or enchant all your clothes with shielding effects and run around at a speed approximating a motorbike evading attacks by simply walking from side to side or backwards and forwards while having considerably more protection than armour would give you. Also doing away with the hassle of having to hit your stuff with a hammer every few minutes.

There's no incentive to wear a big clunky suit which takes up half your inventory weight unless you like the aesthetic, and even then you're going to need to artificially pump strength or use feather. Why not just use that mana and enchantments to cast shield on yourself on yourself instead?

Let's face it.. all anyone is really complaining about is that they might have fewer slots to cast blatantly game breaking and overpowered enchantments, or that they can't give their plate armoured fighter a dress.

I did. I don't play as a spell caster.

 

[electric_warrior]

Where's the wood? All I can see are all these damn trees!!

 

[Bobbity]

People don't want change. Then they ***** about how nothing has changed.

So incredibly true. Besides which, I can guaruntee that no one will be bothered about this even five minutes into the game.

OT: I think that the change is good. In Oblivion, I spent ninety per cent of my time looking for matching armor pieces, so this is just conveniant for me. In any case, being able to render more quickly is a good thing, because more people on the screen is better than not.
If you're whining about the lack of customisation, then prove to me that you used to run around in a steel breastplate and glass pants, or something of the sort.

If you're whining about enchantment, then you're an idiot. Of course they'll compensate for it. If you're still whining about Morrowind, then go back and play it again. The game was awesome, but also admittedly a bit of a *****, in certain aspects. Trying to manage nine pieces of armor - and to get them all fashionably co-ordinated - might have been your idea of fun, but it was also irritating as hell.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

This isn't what I care about. I hate how they ruined my ability to manipulate my skills and stats to the optimum level.

 

[F4LL3N]

Snip

Some people care, some don't. It's preference. 'Nuff said.

I'm not going to get all up in arms about little things. Although I'd prefer more armor slots than less. Not necesarrily for customization. I just don't want things dumbed down too much.

None of what I've heard is extremely bad, but you can tell they are going for a broader audience... So long as the game is fun to play.

 

[Slowpool]

What does this have to do with pants?

What do you mean? Are you quoting me just for a chance to use that bad joke? It's pretty clear what my comment has to do with this thread.

Its less customization. Oblivion decreased the armor slots from 11 to 6 (I think it was 11), and now it is down to 5. Skills and stats are being constantly mutilated and stripped. There's a huge difference "action game with RPG elements" and "action RPG"... Bethesda is intent on pushing that difference as far as they can. I sincerely doubt they give a shit about making their game an RPG anymore. They just want to make a shallow and pointless action game under the pretense of an RPG to sell to the masses. Fucking sell-outs.

Five seperate pieces of armor could actually be considered an improvement, seeing as Fallout 3 had a grand total of three armor slots (counting glasses as a type of armor). As long as I can have asymmetrical arms, I'm happy.

Morrowind was the last TES game that let you have asymmetrical arms, IIRC (talking about vanilla versions of the game, of course).

The subtraction is such a minor difference that only min/maxers would get angry over the issue. Anything that pisses them off makes me even happier.

The ways I see it, the aesthetics are more important to the developers than the extra armor slot. Sucks if you don't like it, but that's your opinion, and it's probably not going to change anything. I for one could not care less, and am still eagerly anticipating the game.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

I don't care about the changes, Skyrim will be my first Elder Scrolls game.

hmmm don't whether to slap you, or welcome you.

Why not do both?

 

[Terminal Blue]

I did. I don't play as a spell caster.

We're talking about a game where you can learn any magic skill by taking a low level self-cast spell and leaving a heavy object on the cast key while you go for lunch.

(And before anyone wants to talk about how game balance was better in the more 'deep and complex' Morrowind system - one word, alchemy. Or, if you can stretch to two. Alchemy + enchantment.)

Look, I'm not bitching. I love TES games, but they've never been balanced enough to accord this wonderful range of customization options people seem to think they have. There is a right way and there is a wrong way. Wearing armour for any reason other than that you like the look of it or you actually have a soul and are trying to roleplay through the laughably broken mechanics (and power to you, I love you for that) is the wrong way. Save your repair bill and spend it on enchantments.

 

[Dys]

It's not an issue.

It's not even a problem that appears solely with video game development:

People don't want change. Then they ***** about how nothing has changed.

It kind of is more than that, in morrowind and oblivion individual pieces of clothes/armour could be enchanted. So you'd have, say, boots of water walking, and to wear them you wouldn't have to sacrifice your best protection as you'd still keep your greaves of necrophobia and curiass of not dying. Having the Armour all combined in a single piece means that you cannot hotswap out something when the magic effects on it become redundant-you'd need a whole new set.

While it may not seem like that big of a change on it's own, there are heaps of similar things that were removed in oblivion and that look like they are being removed again, fans of the series are going to find a game that is in no way like the previous eldar scrolls games. IMO skyrim should have been re-branded as something else, that way the eldar scrolls could have been left as a balls out RPG and the more approachable game could still be made.

 

[DaJoW]

This kind of stuff always confuses me. I don't mind having slightly fewer slots, as long as the game is balanced for that number of slots. Seems like a lot of people want 34 slots (10 rings, chest, back, cape, head, belt, waist, two of hands; lower arms; elbows; upper arms; shoulders; thighs; kneecaps; lower legs and feet). 5 is maybe a bit few, but if it improves performance then fine. In general I'll defer to the people actually making the game in regards to how it should be made, at least until I've played it.

 

[Stall]

Morrowind was not an RPG either, at least not by your standards.

I'm sorry.

Where did I define an RPG in my post? How did you manage to extrapolate that from my post at all? All I said was that Skyrim was removing more and more What does Morrowind have to do with my post at all? It was only tangentially mentioned. Morrowind had about as many skills as Daggerfall is you don't count the skills that are checks against various races being hostile or not (since that was a big reason Daggerfall had so many skills). It has about as many, if not more armor slots than most RPGs since you can have right/left arm armor, as well as being able to wear shirts and pants (if you count that, then Morrowind has upwards to 13 armor slots). Are you trolling, or just this stupid? I'm sorry to be blunt like that, but I honestly fail to see what that has to do with my post, other than trying to work me up and get a reply since you probably were able to assume that I am in the Morrowind camp.

The subtraction is such a minor difference that only min/maxers would get angry over the issue. Anything that pisses them off makes me even happier.

Well, I am glad that you get such shallow and pointless enjoyment out of other people's anger. Honestly... why would you get joy out of something that bothers someone else? That's just sad at the end of the day.

The ways I see it, the aesthetics are more important to the developers than the extra armor slot. Sucks if you don't like it, but that's your opinion, and it's probably not going to change anything. I for one could not care less, and am still eagerly anticipating the game.

Did you just say aesthetics are more important than customization in an RPG? Pardon my brevity, but how long have you been playing RPGs? I'd much rather have horrible looking armor with tons of customization and depth any day. I'll take Morrowind's 11 armor slots with horrid looking armor over Skyrim's 5 any day. RPGs aren't about looking good-- it's about building your character, and customizing them to the letter. From what I have seen, Bethesda is intent on restricting your scope of customization as far as they can do still remain in the realm of an RPG... maybe they'll even strip it so far such that Skyrim is just an action game.

This is what I was talking about-- they just want to make action games for people like you. People who really aren't into RPGs. I'm glad you acknowledge that I am reserved to hold my own opinion however.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Look, I'm not bitching. I love TES games, but they've never been balanced enough to accord this wonderful range of customization options people seem to think they have. There is a right way and there is a wrong way.

I'd go even farther than that - there are an insane number of "right ways" because there are an insane number of ways to break the game. In Morrowind, you could use alchemy, calm spells, a chameleon suit, a +enchant suit, spells that divide by zero, etc. Really, Bound Longbow is enough for you to become a 1-person wrecking ball against the vast majority of the game's enemies. Or you could just levitate and laugh as 90% of enemies flee. In Oblivion, stealth becomes an option, illusion becomes even more hilariously powerful it already was, alchemy stays OP, and so on.

The upshot of all this is I think there is still customization, because there's

A) More than one way to play the game the devs meant it to be played,
and
B) More than one way to become hilariously overpowered.

 

[Slycne]

I'm sort of divided on this. While the loss of some customization hurts, I'm all for armor that doesn't force me to look like a thrift store fighter. That guy who wears horribly miss matched gear for the best bonus. Also a game with more unique armor models instead of a few reskins is another plus in my book.

 

[Gaiseric]

We're talking about a game where you can learn any magic skill by taking a low level self-cast spell and leaving a heavy object on the cast key while you go for lunch.

(And before anyone wants to talk about how game balance was better in the more 'deep and complex' Morrowind system - one word, alchemy. Or, if you can stretch to two. Alchemy + enchantment.)

Look, I'm not bitching. I love TES games, but they've never been balanced enough to accord this wonderful range of customization options people seem to think they have. There is a right way and there is a wrong way. Wearing armour for any reason other than that you like the look of it or you actually have a soul and are trying to roleplay through the laughably broken mechanics is the wrong way.

I play on a console so to get the same effect I'd need some tape.

It has been awhile since I played(never played Morrowind so your safe at least from me) but I thought there were enemies that could dispell which would make it so you have to recast.

This minor complaint of mine isn't a deal breaker. It is just different and since I'm already nervous about the quality of the game(mostly stability concerns) it just adds to my misgivings in a disproportionate way of which I'm succeeding in no longer caring anymore. During the time I've taken to type this, I no longer care about the armor stuff.

 

[Johnnyallstar]

The aesthetics of the armor is the LEAST of my problems with Skyrim. In fact, I'm not worried about it so much, as it should have something that differentiates it from the series.

My biggest gripe is how few guilds there are to chose from, and how you'll probably be able to be the guildmaster of all of them with the same character again. Seriously, would nobody bat an eye towards a guy who was the top guy in the Fighter's Guild and the Mage's Guild? Nobody would worry about a consolidation of power? I still don't see how Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild rules didn't immediately cause a conflict within the guild structure. They could have made something awesome happen if you tried to join a passive, no kill guild, and the kill everyone guild, but either didn't think of it, or decided not to do it.

I loved how Morrowind (yes, beating that old drum again) had guild interaction, and how being in some guilds would prevent you from joining- Telvanni and Mages Guild- or allow you to join others but then have to make a decision on which was more important- Thieves Guild and Fighter's Guild.