Poll: Think you think straight? Think again...

Illesdan

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Sep 15, 2008
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Verlander said:
I read the questions, and answers, and didn't bother taking the test. Why? It's so flawed it's pointless. There are no absolutes in the real world, every question is dependent on undefined parameters (using question no8 as a perfect example: "It is quite reasonable to believe in the existence of a thing without even the possibility of evidence for its existence"-define suitable evidence for a start) and, basically, the test is pointless. Is this supposed to be an Atheists tool for proving that religious people are stupid, and don't think straight? Because it's a fucking joke if it is.
Sounds like you took this too personally. This is a quiz; not a matter of life and death. All quizzes are flawed because they are usually put together by one person or a few like-minded individuals. Once you realize this, and that they have no actual bearing on you as an individual, you can take the test and have a good laugh over the results.

Verlander said:
Oh, and OP: Atheism is a belief, like Agnosticism, Theism and suchlike. Is it a faith? Atheists commit themselves to a belief based on texts, other peoples teachings, and a conviction. To me, that sounds like a religion. For people who don't care or know, I think the term "apathetic" is more relevant.
http://ed3e.r.google.com/click?q=religion&lnk=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FReligion&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F%23sclient%3Dpsy%26hl%3Den%26q%3Dreligion%26aq%3D0%26aqi%3Dg5%26aql%3D%26oq%3D%26pbx%3D1%26bav%3Don.2%2Cor.r_gc.r_pw.%26fp%3Da50d8bbb4089c98a

Please read the definition of 'Religion' before you insult your brother and sister Atheists any further.

On topic: I got 0%
 

Prof. Monkeypox

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Mar 17, 2010
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Very interesting. I saw myself contradicting my ideas almost immediately. I mean, I think there's an explanation for all of my reasons in each case, but it's still interesting to see how complicated a simple thing like opinions can be.
 

DudeistBelieve

TellEmSteveDave.com
Sep 9, 2010
4,771
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ah I don't find any tension in my beliefs it called me out on. Yes I think the right to life is something that should be preserved no matter what the cost. But I also feel the government's responsibilities are to it's own people not developing worlds.

It's an interesting test that would be a real i opener for someone not deeply existential but to me it's a resounding meh.
 
Jun 23, 2008
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My number of philosophical conflicts is low. It pleases me that, by far, most folks in the Escapist forums are also in this category.

The simpler of the two conflicts I encountered was the one about the Objectivity of Art. I think that Michaelangelo was one of the greatest artists ever, but still believe that the appreciation of art has to do with taste. Firstly, Michaelangelo's work appeals popularly, and showed a strong level of skill. I would hypothesize that art that is popular and demonstrates skill is probably good.

The other one concerned my belief that There are no objective moral standards and that Acts of genocide stand as a testament to man's ability to do great evil, the second one is only in conflict with the first if I was presuming the latter statement was an objective standard. I would only say it is a standard in my culture, and in most cultures. I would even go as far to say that in our best standard of morality to date (that being the Geneva Conventions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Conventions]), the genocide-is-bad morality applies well when considering all of humankind and how we deal with each other.

But our efforts, for example, to eradicate malaria-carrying mosquitoes could just-as-easily qualify as genocide, if we gave mosquitoes even a modicum of citizenship. Since we don't, we commit genocide, and it is actually regarded as a good thing, since it saves (human) lives, even at risk to populations that might depend on these mosquitos (say, birds that prey on them).

I am left to wonder about the ranking High - I'm the leader of the Liberal Democrats. I am moderate in the US, yet left of center, but notably to the left of our progressive Democrats (liberal positions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Era]? Something else?[/footnote], more so than the norm, but less so than people who choose Chaotic Neutral as their alignment in AD&D.

238U
 

Raven's Nest

Elite Member
Feb 19, 2009
2,955
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41
Anoni Mus said:
I was about to start, but the first question is hard.

"1. There are no objective moral standards; moral judgements are merely an expression of the values of particular cultures"

Depends, some morales like killing, torturing in my opinion is objectivetly WRONG. But minor things maybe not :S
So you disagree that there are no objective moral standards, thus implying that moral judgements are the result of cultural upbringings.

You've been brought up to think that murder and torture is wrong, therefore your culture has influenced your morality. If you think that not all moral standards are objective then you would agree with the statement.
 

capnpupster

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Jul 15, 2008
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I got 40%, somewhat high it seems, at least among my fellow Escapists here. A lot of it seemed to be that the questions are far too general to be answered with a simple agree/disagree. That aside I still understand all of the contradictions that it told me I have, but I've come to terms with all of them already. I already knew my views were complicated, I think that's why I tend to confuse, annoy, anger, and just generally distress door to door missionaries.
 

Raven's Nest

Elite Member
Feb 19, 2009
2,955
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41
SaneAmongInsane said:
ah I don't find any tension in my beliefs it called me out on. Yes I think the right to life is something that should be preserved no matter what the cost. But I also feel the government's responsibilities are to it's own people not developing worlds.

It's an interesting test that would be a real i opener for someone not deeply existential but to me it's a resounding meh.
I think the test's purpose is to open people up to the idea of investigating philosophy a bit further. Have a look around the site, there are some other more complex articles and 'games' you may enjoy including one that assess's ones morality in much greater detail.
 

Raven's Nest

Elite Member
Feb 19, 2009
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Uriel-238 said:
I am left to wonder about the ranking High - I'm the leader of the Liberal Democrats. I am moderate in the US, yet left of center, but notably to the left of our progressive Democrats (liberal positions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Era]? Something else?[/footnote], more so than the norm, but less so than people who choose Chaotic Neutral as their alignment in AD&D.

238U


The Liberal Dems quip relates to the UK party's leader Nick Clegg who has been somewhat hypocritical as of late.

Sorry yanks, that one was for us Brits.
 

crimsonshrouds

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Mar 23, 2009
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I got 33% because im aparently stupid and the way these questions are worded is confusing.

confusing me doesnt prove hypocritical thinking
 

LawlessSquirrel

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Jun 9, 2010
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27%, but most of the conflicts were caused by my interpretations of the statements being different to theirs. Also, it seems to have missed a connection that would contradict a contradiction.

It says that my claims that morality is cultural conflict with my claims that genocide is a testament to great evil. It didn't take into consideration that I said people are free to pursue their own ends as long as they don't harm others.

Thus, with all three, I would consider morality to be cultural, but intentional harm to others/genocide to be evil. Consider it freedom of culture working both ways; one culture would be free to treat itself under its own doctrine, but cannot kill others in spite of their's. It's a dependency, not a contradiction.

A shame it didn't really make me think too deeply, but a good share nonetheless.
 

Raven's Nest

Elite Member
Feb 19, 2009
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Anoni Mus said:
I choosed I disagree.
After reading the sentence some more times I reached the conclusion there are in fact objective moral standarts such the one I refered and others. It sounds intolerant, but deep down it's what I think. Remember the question says ""1. There are no objective moral standards; moral judgements are merely an expression of the values of particular cultures" so if I find even 1 objective morale I should vote disagree, that's what I did.
Cool, don't worry, the test isn't judging your beliefs, it's testing that your beliefs are consistent with each other...
 

FieryTrainwreck

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Apr 16, 2010
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7%. I got nailed by "the possession of drugs for personal use should be decriminalised" versus "so long as they do not harm others, individuals should be free to pursue their own ends". I'm comfortable with that contradiction because I've seen meth head parents.
 

ModReap

Gatekeeper
Apr 3, 2008
362
0
0
7%

You agreed that:
The environment should not be damaged unnecessarily in the pursuit of human ends
But disagreed that:
People should not journey by car if they can walk, cycle or take a train instead
 

nYuknYuknYuk

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Jul 12, 2009
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If you gauge your philosophical ideals from on online test(with yes or no answers, no less), you are doing it wrong.
 

CrystalShadow

don't upset the insane catgirl
Apr 11, 2009
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I got 20%

To be honest, I found some questions where I genuinely didn't find either option to feel 'right'

Also, the conflicts it lists for me show that they're playing very finicky wordgames, that I disagree with the reasoning.

For instance:

"
Questions 12 and 30: Is the future fixed?

22939 of the 173478 people who have completed this activity have this tension in their beliefs.

You agreed that:
Having made a choice, it is always possible that one might have chosen otherwise
And also that:
The future is fixed, how one's life unfolds is a matter of destiny

Most people think that humans have free will. Yet many of the same people believe in fate, or destiny. But how can both beliefs be true? If 'what will be, will be' no matter what we do, then how can we have freedom? For example, imagine I am in a shop, deciding whether to buy one of two coats. If one believes in fate or destiny, then it must be true that it is inevitable which coat I buy. In which case, when I stand before them, choosing, it must be an illusion that I have a genuine choice, as fate has decreed that there is, in fact, only one choice I can make. I seem to be making my own mind up, but forces beyond my control have already determined which way I choose. This makes it untrue that 'having made a choice, it is always possible that one might have chosen otherwise'. So reconciling belief in destiny and free will is a tricky task."

I guess the wording of 'always' caught me out here, but from my point of view this isn't logical. The future being fixed doesn't mean I know what the future is, and just because I made a particular decision doesn't mean I couldn't have made a different one. (or rather, that what happened was the only possible outcome possible in the circumstances.)
I guess the real source of this conflict is that I essentially believe in the 'multiverse' concept, which implies that all possible choices happen at once, but in parallel worlds.
This implies both that the future is fixed, but that all the possible alternatives also happen anyway.
(taken as a whole, if every single possible option happens, then there is in fact, no choice, merely a question of which particular universe you perceive as being the correct one.)


"Questions 5 and 29: Can you put a price on a human life?

42034 of the 173478 people who have completed this activity have this tension in their beliefs.

You agreed that:
The right to life is so fundamental that financial considerations are irrelevant in any effort to save lives
But disagreed that:
Governments should be allowed to increase taxes sharply to save lives in the developing world

If the right to life is so fundamental that financial considerations are irrelevant when it comes to making decisions about saving human lives, then that must mean that we should always spend as much money as possible to save lives. If it costs £4 million to save a cancer patient's life, that money should be spent, period. But if this is true, then surely the West should spend as much money as possible saving lives in the developing world. You may already give $100 dollars a month to save lives in the developing world. But if financial considerations are irrelevant when it comes to saving lives, why not $200, or $1000, or just as much as you can afford? If you do not do so, you are implicitly endorsing the principle that individuals and governments are not obliged to save lives at all financial cost - that one can spend 'enough' on saving lives even though spending more, which one could afford to do, would save more lives. This suggests that financial considerations are relevant when it comes to making decisions about saving lives - there is a limit to how much one should spend to save a life."

That's probably a genuine conflict in my mind, but I was really uncertain about which answer to choose for the 'right to life' question.

"Questions 22 and 15: What is the seat of the self?

54213 of the 173478 people who have completed this activity have this tension in their beliefs.

You agreed that:
Severe brain-damage can rob a person of all consciousness and selfhood
And also that:
On bodily death, a person continues to exist in a non-physical form

These two beliefs are not strictly contradictory, but they do present an awkward mix of world-views. On the one hand, there is an acceptance that our consciousness and sense of self is in some way dependent on brain activity, and this is why brain damage can in a real sense damage 'the self'. Yet there is also the belief that the self is somehow independent of the body, that it can live on after the death of the brain. So it seems consciousness and selfhood both is and is not dependent on having a healthy brain. One could argue that the dependency of the self on brain only occurs before bodily death. The deeper problem is not that it is impossible to reconcile the two beliefs, but rather that they seem to presume wider, contradictory world-views: one where consciousness is caused by brains and one where it is caused by something non-physical."

That is straight out not right. It's the most obvious example of being forced to give a true/false answer, when my actual inclination is to say 'neither' to the second question. (Or "I don't know")
It's an obvious conflict, but mainly one forced upon me by the structure of the questions, rather than a real mental conflict.



 

DSD12

New member
Feb 12, 2011
131
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I got a 53% what the crap
One i call BS on is the (The possession of drugs for personal use should be decriminalized, and individuals should be free to pursue their own ends) How is this a contradiction? if drugs were decriminalized we just have drunk potheads looking to get high