Poll: Torchlight 2, everything Diablo 3 should have?

[Tony2077]

diablo 3 is what I'm getting it still has singleplayer it may be online but its still there since as far as its wiki page say the followers are sp only. anyone care to confirm or deny this.

 

[Tony2077]

diablo 3 is what I'm getting it still has singleplayer it may be online but its still there since as far as its wiki page say the followers are sp only. anyone care to confirm or deny this.

Any information regarding offline single-player was taken from posts made in 2009. It was just this month that they told us there will be none whatsoever. Of course you can still make/join an empty server and play alone, but there won't be any difference. Followers are available in a full server or one with just you.

care to be nice and give me the source of this. please be a blizzard person. i just like to confirm the info i get or have just so i don't look stupid when i tell someone else

 

[Maniclings]

Snip

Ebay doesn't charge a person for listing an item, charge the buyer to buy it, and then charge the seller again for taking out their money once they've sold the item. Blizzard is doing all of these things with the cash auction house. Essentially, this:

http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/checkpoint/114/ (thanks Dexter)

All the best items will be listed on the cash auction house, so yes, you will either be forced to use it or have a lesser character than everybody else. So forget PvP, which in my mind, is a big part of the game.

Yes, Blizzard is in fact the only company doing non-MMO online-online games right now. Ubisoft was the first to introduce that DRM, but the feedback was so bad that after releasing it along with just ONE of their games, they have never used it since. They already did the work of making that stupid mistake and having to retract it for Blizzard, so Blizzard should know better.

I have nothing against developers wanting to make money as long as it doesn't interfere with releasing the best, most diversely accommodating product possible. Blizzard used to do that. Now they're making design choices which limit your play style, and even limit some peoples' ability to play at all. Because of greed. That's when it becomes a negative. Especially given the obvious fact that the mad cash they already have flowing through to them due to WoW is not shared among the people that actually MAKE the games. It all goes straight to the top. To the heads and CEOs of Activision, mostly, and that means Kotick.

FYI, the game is going to get pirated anyway. Assassin's Creed 2, which was the first game to use online-only DRM, was one of the most pirated games ever released, because nobody wanted to support that type of bullshit business practice. And now Diablo 3 will probably overtake it as the most pirated game ever, as even people who buy it legitimately will want some way to play it offline.

I highly doubt that you can't understand why people would have problems with these design choices. You just discount their gripes as not valid because you believe Blizzard can do no wrong. Which is, obviously, a ridiculous notion. The part of me that loved their previous games and loved Diablo 2 has not changed. Blizzard has changed.

How does the auction house system work?
Players can open the auction house interface from anywhere in the game to make purchases or list items for sale. Items can be sold from the shared stash (storage shared among all the characters on your Battle.net account) or from any individual character?s inventory. When posting the item, the seller picks whether it will be sold in the gold-based auction house or the currency-based auction house. The item is then held by the auction house system until the listing expires or a purchase is made. Items that are not sold are returned to the seller?s shared stash, and items that are sold are delivered to the winning bidder?s shared stash. In either case, the auction house system will deduct a nominal fixed transaction fee from the seller, the amount of which is determined by whether or not the item was sold (see below). For the currency-based auction house, players will have a few different options for how to pay for item purchases and receive funds for item sales, as discussed elsewhere in this FAQ. There may be differences in how this system will work in different regions of the world. We?ll provide further details at a later date.

How is the transaction fee determined?
A nominal fixed transaction fee will be deducted from the seller for each item listed in the auction house. This fee consists of a fixed charge to list the item, which is assessed whether or not the item is successfully sold, and an additional fixed charge that is assessed only if the item is sold. Because the listing portion of the fee is charged even if the item doesn?t sell, it will be in the seller?s interest to list items he or she believes other players will be interested in, and to do so at a competitive price. Specific details related to the transaction fee for the currency-based auction house will vary by region and will be announced at a later date.

Please note that we plan to waive the listing portion of the fee for a limited number of transactions per account. In other words, for these transactions, the seller will only pay a transaction fee if the item is successfully sold, and that fee will not include the listing charge. We?ll have further details on this as well at a later date.

http://www.diablowiki.net/Auction_House_FAQ

Could you please point me to where the seller pays a fee to buy the item.
Their system is made to combat low level item spamming, ridiculous pricing, and to some extent counter gold farmers, as it will cost you money to post large numbers of items, but everyone gets a number of free item listings. If the game is anything like diablo 2 rare items aren't going to be falling out of the sky and you will not be finding masses and masses of them.

Why do you need to be able to play the game offline so bad? unless you have bad internet what exactly is the reason? why does it effect you in such a huge negative way that you won't buy the game??
Coldie already gave good reasons why this game would be kinda silly to pirate and I agree with everything he said.
Honestly do you really have nothing to do if your net connection goes down? personally I have books to read, other games I can play, people I can speak to. It isn't going to kill me if my net goes down and I can't play d3 for the period that it is down. Are you really going to be effected in a big way by it being online only? Honestly?

 

[Cheesus333]

I'm getting both. I loved Torchlight, it was a greeat game even if it was essentially a cartoony HD remake of Diablo with the names changed. It was a lot of fun and I look forward to the sequel, which should improve on it in every way.

But Diablo 3 I've been waiting for for at least 8 years. That's more than half of my life. I'll be damned if I'm giving up on it now that it's so close!

They'll probably play really different anyway, I reckon they'll be very distinct experiences.

 

[Joseph Alexander]

both.
diablo will likely have more of a life time then TL2.
the auction house is a plus for me as i will be putting stuff up for sale rather then buying from it.
i doubt blizz won't have an offline mode and this whole thing is a PR stunt.

torchlight was fun but i ended up only playing it once.
nice art design on both game, with diablo going for a more grim depressing(from the levels we ahve seen) and TL sticking to a cartoonly frivolity.


ALSO BECAUSE PEOPLE CAN'T SEEM TO LEARN:
DIABLO 3'S AUCTION HOUSE ONLY CHARGES FOR LISTING IF YOU GO ABOVE YOUR WEEKLY ALLOWANCE OF LISTINGS.
THIS IS THERE TO PREVENT PEOPLE FOR PUTTING 1000 STACKS OF 10 GOLD ON THE AUCTION OR FLODDING IT WITH WORTHLESS CRAP.

 

[Coldie]

words

Hey, World of Warcraft could very well be enjoyed solo and offline, but there's no outcry (anymore, anyway). There are always people that will make their displeasure known, but the outrage with the DRM got so big mostly because some of the games protected by it are single-player only and that's just unjustifiable.

You could "pirate" the client, but it's unprotected and useless on its own. You can't pirate the server, you don't have any way of accessing it. It's quite impossible to pirate such a game. It is, however, possible to emulate the server, bypassing the legitimate ways of playing the game. Said emulation, on the other hand, is not capable of recreating the server code with any degree of accuracy, only an approximation based on observation. The only way to get a full, "authentic" if you will, "game experience" is to buy an account. World of Warcraft hasn't been pirated so far, after more than 6 years, neither will be Diablo 3. StarCraft2 has no remote server components and just a periodic-check-in DRM, so it could be and was pirated. Fast.

For the strawman in the end, I'll bite:
0. Diablo 3 simplicity in comparison to TL/Fate is unknown at this time, but the number of systems and mechanics in D3 looks promising. TL2 so far looks like it was inspired heavily by D2, with all pros and cons that it involves.
1. Was Hellgate: London getting it "more" right than Torchlight? Perhaps there's more to game development than a few specific people. Or maybe those specific people were holding Blizzard North back? There's no way to know, so it's in no way relevant.
2. Newbies or not, there is no indication that any other team would have done anything differently.
3. The alleged and undefined "dumbing down" of WoW is entirely unrelated to Diablo 3.

TL2 and D3 are different games, each with their own audiences. I might play both, if TL2 is released first and is more similar to D2 than TL1.

 

[Tony2077]

diablo 3 is what I'm getting it still has singleplayer it may be online but its still there since as far as its wiki page say the followers are sp only. anyone care to confirm or deny this.

Any information regarding offline single-player was taken from posts made in 2009. It was just this month that they told us there will be none whatsoever. Of course you can still make/join an empty server and play alone, but there won't be any difference. Followers are available in a full server or one with just you.

care to be nice and give me the source of this. please be a blizzard person. i just like to confirm the info i get or have just so i don't look stupid when i tell someone else

Sure. The source was an interview with Bllizzard by PC gamer. This article links to all of it:

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/08/01/diablo-iii-no-mods-online-only-cash-trades/

well i can play by myself so I'm good hopefully down the road they won't change that

this is ?Now, that doesn?t mean you can?t play a game by yourself ? of course you can. You can go into and start any game that you want, you?ll just be connected to the Battle.net servers, and we can authenticate your character.? why i'm good

 

[Maniclings]

http://www.diablowiki.net/Auction_House_FAQ

Could you please point me to where the seller pays a fee to buy the item.
Their system is made to combat low level item spamming, ridiculous pricing, and to some extent counter gold farmers, as it will cost you money to post large numbers of items, but everyone gets a number of free item listings. If the game is anything like diablo 2 rare items aren't going to be falling out of the sky and you will not be finding masses and masses of them.

Why do you need to be able to play the game offline so bad? unless you have bad internet what exactly is the reason? why does it effect you in such a huge negative way that you won't buy the game??
Coldie already gave good reasons why this game would be kinda silly to pirate and I agree with everything he said.
Honestly do you really have nothing to do if your net connection goes down? personally I have books to read, other games I can play, people I can speak to. It isn't going to kill me if my net goes down and I can't play d3 for the period that it is down. Are you really going to be effected in a big way by it being online only? Honestly?

Oh okay, so just the seller gets assraped by fees twice. Not the buyer. How is that better than listing stuff on eBay for free again?

As for offline play, while my internet connection is, and to some extent always has been, just fine, I still preferred to play offline with a separate character at times. Diabllo 2 was also a great game for LAN parties and travel. Diablo 3 won't be playable in either of those scenarios. More than that, I address the issue for all those players still stuck with dial-up or no connection at all. Why would Blizzard want to lose the revenue generated by that part of the fan base? What do they stand to gain?

You don't even know what the fee is or how many free uplistings you get, the seller only gets charged for listing when they are listing alot of items. On ebay listing items is free so you get things like "AIR GUITAR WITH AIR CASE $5 with $3 shipping"
they don't want the system spammed with bs, so a cost on listing after you have used your free listings is their solution. Do you have a better idea? please provide a better idea to counter low level item spamming and ridiculous price listing.

What is blizzard losing by ignoring the fan base that has no internet connection? 1% of the possible people that will buy the game at the most? how many people do you know that are interested in gaming and don't have an internet connection?
Do you really still go to lans? Personally I have never been to one, but I have heard they are a great place to go to get free pirated games. My little brother lans with his friends but they always have a net connection while they lan, he even can chat to me on steam while he is lanning.
I don't see that you are getting some huge rip off by not being able to play offline, what is the gain? I enjoyed d2 the most playing online with my bf, or playing online with friends.
I remember you said the auction house will mean you can't pvp anymore unless you use it, but people already bought items for d2 so I don't really see what difference this will make for pvp in d3 except people will be buying their items through d3 instead of ebay or some other 3rd party source. Rather than some other party making a profit from items created by blizzard, blizzard will make the profit.

 

[Smooth Operator]

I'm getting both at some point, Torchlight first as it will be cheaper, then D3 when it's 10-20$ on ebay.
But I am in no hurry as these grindy dungeon crawlers aren't my thing anymore, just a bit of mindless mayhem and I get my fill.

 

[Coldie]

words

So it all boils down to:
1. Activision = bad.
2. Simple = bad.

Good to know. Considering how irrelevant Activision is to the enjoyment of a game and how little is known about the complexity of the systems beyond 'easy to learn' and difficulty of the game beyond 'first act/difficulty is easy', I'd say the game is in good hands.

The hivemind-like hatred for Activision is amusing.