The removal of the pose was done by the developers. Are you saying the developers don't know their own characters well enough to make such a determination within their own game?CritialGaming said:
Poll: Tracer pose poll
- Thread starter Rastrelly
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That's not the point. The point is that you can't assume Tracer's behavior based on personality, because we do not know enough about her character to base these assumptions.BloatedGuppy said:
Especially if you watch the latest Overwatch short film. Tracer's behavior in that movie is WAY different than her playful in game behavior.
Tracer's personality and behavior are simply whatever Blizzard wants her behavior and personality to be at any given time. So making statements about what she would and would not do based on that revolving personality is simply nonsensical.
Not that it matters in the first place because Tracer is not a real person. She is a set of polygons in a computer program. She doesn't even have a butt....technically.
I can dream though.
You are correct.CritialGaming said:
As removing the pose was Blizzard's decision, and questions of characters characterization and deportment are...as you successfully argue...entirely dependent on Blizzard's whim...then we really have no foundation upon which to either praise or criticize that decision, do we?
firmly in the "don't give a shit" camp. I think both sides are ridiculous, and I'm finding it hilarious how hard people are arguing on both sides, like the fate of the world was resting on this decision... especially when it's something entirely optional and other characters have as far as poses go, but at the same time it's blizzards game and they are putting in a new pose to replace it.
personally I think more is better, it's an optional pose/thing so I couldn't give a crap about how it fits a character or not...
personally I think more is better, it's an optional pose/thing so I couldn't give a crap about how it fits a character or not...
Actually that's false. You see Blizzard's decisions are business based towards product that they are selling, and as such that product and the decisions made regarding that product are all fair game for praise or criticism. Especially since it was a criticism that led to the removal in the first place.BloatedGuppy said:
Hell it is basically the only thing that appears on the WoW forums anymore. (Criticism, not butts).
Either you agree of not with the removal of the pose, as consumers of that product we do have the right to give our opinions on it and the reasons behind any changes within.
However I will concede that there are other things we could be better off discussing.
How to you feel about the excessive amount of air within any given bag of potato chips? I feel it is a rip off and there should be a better chip to air ratio in each bag.
I try not to judge/assume what others want to do to butts! Some want to crack them, some want to blow them, I embrace your lifestyle choice! (even if I think you might need lots of chapstick if you're blowing butts)Something Amyss said:
But yes, I did notice the remark, and I hope this post has rectified any possible confusion about any assumptions made previously.
It was also the developers that gave her this pose in the first place.Something Amyss said:
They might have been nudged toward changing their minds, but there was at least some point in which they decided to give Tracer this pose.
I just don't like their reasoning. The whole basis of "It doesn't fit her personality" is bullshit, because it does.
Now if they had simply come out and said, "New Beta patch notes: New poses add for several characters. These poses have replaced some placeholder poses on some characters." Then nobody would have said a word about Tracer's "over the shoulder" pose. (im not calling it the butt pose anymore)
That is speculation in direct contradiction to the official stated reason for the removal of the pose. I said once before in these forums, and I'll say it again...you are free, of course, to speculate that you are being lied to. That there is a conspiracy afoot about the removal of butts from Overwatch, or at least specifically THIS butt from Overwatch. That Blizzard was NOT already considering moving this obvious placeholder pose, and that this is the first time in history they have ever made a rapid change in response to a single piece of feedback. I cannot stop you from doing this, and I would have no desire to try even if I was. I can tell you I think it's risible, but if you've gotten this far in your analysis of the situation any comment or condemnation of your reasoning from me isn't likely to be terribly convincing.CritialGaming said:
I think it's a compromise in packaging to prevent broken chips that gives the unfortunate impression that they're selling you a bag of empty promises.CritialGaming said:
I would say I don't care, but I'm reading the thread so I guess I do care a bit. I suppose that puts me in the "removalist" camp. The pose itself is fine, there's nothing wrong with it, just Blizzard themselves agreed with some feedback and said it wasn't really in-line with the characterisation they wanted. I respect their artistic freedom.
Why is this still a discussion? Is the gaming community so starved for something to talk about they have to drag out a minor controversy over them replacing one victory pose for several days?
I support Blizzard's decision to remove the pose.
Do I think victory poses are a zero-sum game where there can only be a limited amount? No.
Do I think the inclusion of the pose in question would have hurt the game? No.
Can devs make any damn change they want, for any reason they want, to a product (which isn't even in public beta yet)?
Yes.
Editing is a part of the creative process. Luckily, we have an official post from a Blizzard designer saying the creative reasons behind the edit. People can then come up with idiotic conspiracies, and decide that this is the hill they want to die on. But it won't change anything, is stupid, and ultimately starts a dialogue that serves to take more creative freedom from developers under the flag of wanting to protect it.
Not to mention I'm still salty that the MUCH more interesting discussion of character through animations/poses and the dangers of misrepresenting parts of the universe through the usage of cosmetic elements is being overshadowing by another misuse of the word censorship.
This whole thing is a mountain out of a molehill. I do appreciate the amount of butt related jokes coming out of it, though.
Do I think victory poses are a zero-sum game where there can only be a limited amount? No.
Do I think the inclusion of the pose in question would have hurt the game? No.
Can devs make any damn change they want, for any reason they want, to a product (which isn't even in public beta yet)?
Yes.
Editing is a part of the creative process. Luckily, we have an official post from a Blizzard designer saying the creative reasons behind the edit. People can then come up with idiotic conspiracies, and decide that this is the hill they want to die on. But it won't change anything, is stupid, and ultimately starts a dialogue that serves to take more creative freedom from developers under the flag of wanting to protect it.
Not to mention I'm still salty that the MUCH more interesting discussion of character through animations/poses and the dangers of misrepresenting parts of the universe through the usage of cosmetic elements is being overshadowing by another misuse of the word censorship.
This whole thing is a mountain out of a molehill. I do appreciate the amount of butt related jokes coming out of it, though.
Yeah, and I was a writer who put in a scene in a story inspired by Bible Black and thought it was a good idea and not just stupid sexual pandering. People change their minds on things. Needless to say, that never made it into the final draft.CritialGaming said:
Yes, but as you said, they were nudged. They changed their minds. That was then, this is now. They no longer like the pose.
You don't agree with them on the character. Well I'm just going to say that I think they, the people who freaking created her, have a bit more authority on what is or is not in character for her than you do.
Fair enough on that one.
Good god. How desperate is this forum for controversy that it dedicates not one, not two, not three but FOUR concurrent threads adding up to 15 pages about a butt?
I'm a frequent visitor of Dota 2's subreddit. I feed on drama, drama is the embodiment of my being.
Blizzard and its fans have managed to turn a silly over the shoulder pose into more drama than Valve managed by firing the host of their horribly managed shitstorm called ''The Shanghai Major''. Players had their gear stolen while staying at the hotel.
I don't care the least about the reasons behind this drama, I'm only here to watch it fume and entertain myself.
Blizzard and its fans have managed to turn a silly over the shoulder pose into more drama than Valve managed by firing the host of their horribly managed shitstorm called ''The Shanghai Major''. Players had their gear stolen while staying at the hotel.
I don't care the least about the reasons behind this drama, I'm only here to watch it fume and entertain myself.
Voted "don't care". Thought the pose was fine, though it's worth a (minor) eye-roll that the trousers cling to the butt so incredibly tightly we see every contour. But not on the blokes o'course.
Right! Just like the inclusion of the pose in the first place.CritialGaming said:
I'm not saying that I know more about the character than they do. I'm saying that the original poster had no basis on saying that pose was out of character for Tracer.erttheking said:
Now what I will say, again, is that Blizzard could have done this in a way that doesn't result in this drama. A simple new patch that added a couple of poses, and replaced other poses (including the "over the shoulder" pose) would have solved this issue and not caused any drama. Don't even mention it in the patch notes. Like I stated above simply say, "New Beta patch notes: New poses add for several characters. These poses have replaced some placeholder poses on some characters."
BAM! Done.
"Over the Shoulder" Tracer is gone. And nobody would be the wiser. It's simple PR dynamics really. One would have to wonder if they did it this way to cause drama around the game as release gets closer and closer.
I just would have wanted them to handle it better, because the reasoning they gave just feels bad to me. It could have been done in a way that would have been more subtle.
Who knows, they could have even added to that pose to make it completely different.
Imagine this. The pose starts with the Over the Shoulder pose we have seen, but only for a moment as Tracer quickly whips around to face the camera landing into a shooting stance with both guns pointed directly at the camera. Grr so feisty.
Well clearly Blizzard disagrees with you on that one.CritialGaming said:
I said that I agreed with you on that one.
Maybe they could have added to that pose, but they clearly didn't want to.
Actually to be fair, they did state that they were going to give Tracer a replacement pose. So there is nothing to say that they can't just add to that pose. Hell even a zoomed in camera angle to avoid showing her butt will allow them to recycle all the work that went into making the pose in the first place.erttheking said:
Can't knock them if they truly feel the pose was not in their character's nature (though drawing her bum a touch more realistically may have fixed any perception of ~sexuality~ *shrug*).
But if they could have done so without shitting on women in the process, that would have been greeeat.
But if they could have done so without shitting on women in the process, that would have been greeeat.