Poll: Ultimate Sacrifice

[CatmanStu]

I have to say no for two reasons:

Minor reason - selfish desire not to be the only miserable person in paradise due to being completely alone and insignificant.

Major reason - I am a strong believer in Darwins survival of the fittest theory and by creating paradise without sacrifice you condemn the species to eventual extinction.

 

[karloss01]

Your presented with a choice, Every single problem in the world today (War, Famine etc) will be solved over night, no one will ever be unhappy again and there would be no crime, But you get erased from history, Not killed - Erased. Everything you've ever done wont ever have happened (*Edit* Apart from making that choice, the world would still be fixed)and everyone who knew you would instantly forget you ever existed and to make matters better or worse depending on your outlook, you are still alive, but no one can see you or hear you, You can't intereact with anything or anyone, all you can do is watch the effects of your sacrifice. The question is, Would you do it?

Me, I'd love to say I would do it, for the good of everyone else.. but really, I know I couldn't.. Selfish maybe, But I dont want to die, and when I do eventually die the least I want is people to remember me, so no, I couldn't do it.

But doing that will doom humanity to cultural stagnation, and therefore ruin humanity as a whole. Because everyone has what they want, no new technologies, no more exploration, no anything.

this. i wouldn't do it because it would do more harm then good. everything improves from trial and error and overcoming problems. if you take them away then whats the point?

 

[Dr Snakeman]

Would I erase myself from history to rob every single person on the planet of their free will?

That's not an ultimate sacrifice, thats the biggest dick move ever conceived. Made even worse since you wouldn't exist anymore, and no one would have anyone to blame for the lose of free will (And they couldn't play the blame game anyway, since that requires a little bit of self interest).

Interesting take on it, but im alittle confused, how exactly is it robbing people of their free will?

He's sort of a jerk and he's saying people have the right to kill, rape, and steal. Oh, also that people born into impossible odds (orphans in sub-Saharan Africa) are thankful for their freedom to try and fail, as opposed to the tyranny of the situation being fixed by an outside force.

He's pretty much an idiot who has never left his house.

Really now. Idiot, eh?

Okay, here's how it works. We live in somewhere in between utopia and a crap sack world. Some place are closer to one pole then the other. Life sucks for some, not for others. I wont argue against that.

So here's the proposition made by the OP, as I see it. Would you give up your very existence so that everyone can live happily? Sounds great - a test of ones moral fiber. How could one not bestow ultimate joy on those who he loves (And everyone else, while we're at it). But here's the problem: for there to be no sadness, there must be no sin. For there to be no sin, their are only two possibilities: that everyone in existence has decided it to be so (Great), or for an external being (Or something else) to force everyone to abolish sin.

Which is pretty much slavery.

So, since someone decided I was an evil maniac who's never left his house (I mean, its not like I've gone around the god damn globe once, and took a 16 month break in the Middle East, which is in the top 3 shittiest regions on Earth), I make a counter claim - that anyone who says yes to this question is a slaver, someone who's decided that all others are not 'smart' enough to run their own lives, and would be better off if they were all mentally chained to this person's clearly superior mind and moral compass.

...

Obviously, I don't think that last part is true for everyone. But honestly, it probably is for at least one person in this thread.

Huh. That's... that's a really good point. To "fix" humanity would be to eliminate the diversity and freedom that makes us human in the first place. I think there was a Nicole Kidman movie with that same premise.

What was the title? Infection, maybe? Can't remember, and I'm too lazy to look it up.

Anyway, yeah. I agree with this guy.

 

[Dr Snakeman]

Without picking your example apart for all the bits that don't make sense, and sticking to the spirit of what you're asking: yes. I'm not so into myself that I would prefer my own pleasures of life to the good of the greater world.

For the greater good of what? These humans are worth jack. The majority of them are unoriginal clones that flock to the next best thing, that best thing being something entirely irrelevent. What good there is left in the world is dwindling, hanging by a thread, vastly out numbered by the corrupted. There isn't enough good on the planet to stop the spread of corruption. To prolong the human race is to doom the universe.

Awww, isn't that cute? He thinks he's smarter than everyone else. This is just perfect. It's not every day that you get to run into someone as incredibly blind to reality as this guy. We should all try and savor this moment.

Unless, of course, he's a troll. In which case, he deserves congratulations for his pitch-perfect mockery of the absolute worst kind of person you meet on the internet.

 

[SidingWithTheEnemy]

Soo, tell me, how much time do I have to push the button?

Five Minutes?
A month?
Some years?

If everybody forgets what I have done before at least I could have some fun before pressing that button, no?
NO harm done, since nobody remembers and all traces erased, don't you think?

So after ravaging the country, raping and pillagin the coastal towns, deflorating virgins, having had sex with animals and streaking around on national holidays while robbing several banks in a row with my stolen bazooka...

Hellya that's a nice prequel of pressing that button later. So YES of Course I would press it, only just give me some time to "consider" my options, please... ;-)

 

[Candidus]

No. I wouldn't want to live in a utopia, so I'm naturally going to avoid bringing it about. In particular I would be averse to the idea of instating a "utopia" without violence and unhappiness. The former is important to me, to my character. It is a pillar of my personality, at the core of my sense of justice and self confidence. Violence is essentially the lynch-pin of my well-being; it has a place in the world, in our dealings with others, and it will have and should have for as long as we are human.

The latter, discontent and unhappiness, is an important motivator in moderation.

 

[Shoqiyqa]

Your presented with a choice, Every single problem in the world today (War, Famine etc) will be solved over night, no one will ever be unhappy again and there would be no crime, But you get erased from history, Not killed - Erased. Everything you've ever done wont ever have happened (*Edit* Apart from making that choice, the world would still be fixed)and everyone who knew you would instantly forget you ever existed and to make matters better or worse depending on your outlook, you are still alive, but no one can see you or hear you, You can't intereact with anything or anyone, all you can do is watch the effects of your sacrifice. The question is, Would you do it?

Me, I'd love to say I would do it, for the good of everyone else.. but really, I know I couldn't.. Selfish maybe, But I dont want to die, and when I do eventually die the least I want is people to remember me, so no, I couldn't do it.

Surely, to still be alive, I'd have to at least be able to interact with food, water and air. If I no longer need to do those things, I'm no longer technically alive, just around.

Nothing in that paragraph, either way, says that any other humans will actually survive. No humans? No humans at war. No humans? No humans starving. No humans? No unhappy humans. No humans? No crime. No humans? No humans remembering I ever existed.

Invisible, inaudible, free of the need for food, drink and air, wandering around watching ... er ...

Spoiler: this

Warning: flashing images, flickering images, blurrily-fast-moving images et cetera for no good reason throughout video, plus close-ups of rats and bugs, plus ridiculously deep over-dramatic voiceover, plus pointless buzzes and whooshes.


Warning: more pointless flashing images. Feel free to just listen rather than watching.


Warning: even more pointless flashing lights, flickering images, over-deepened voiceover and hyperbole.


Warning: Captain Obvious giving the tour. "This was a bedroom. There used to be children here but now it's kind of empty." No **** Sherlock.

To quote the professor, "it would be lovely; it would be absolutely lovely."

 

[The Virgo]

Nope. I sure wouldn't.

Although, I wonder: If no one can see you and no one can hear you, what happens if you post on a forum? How could a website server handle that curse? Would your post not show up? Or would it give an error message every time you tried to post?

 

[RagTagBand]

Wait, so if you can't interact with anything wouldn't you just die 3-4 days later anyway through dehydration?

 

[Mr Grey]

damn...i really don't know.

on the one hand, i'd have no problem having never existed in exchange for everything to be wonderful for everyone.

on the other, if i never existed, then the woman i love might be dead by now.

i don't give a damn about my life, but HER life? that's an impossible question.

 

[droid]

In principle, yes, but as worded the interpretation could vary too much. I would definitely do it for a well defined subset of "peace on earth" (such as to prevent a specific nuke from going off in a populated area) but not unless I was certain of the details. And since I don't know everything, I am not even sure that any specific change would ultimately be for good. In general I wouldn't want to take away choice from the innocent.

Related:
* World peace wish at the open-source wish project. [http://http://www.homeonthestrange.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=86]
* World of Silence (TVTropes) [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WorldOfSilence]

 

[DEATHROAD]

Soo, tell me, how much time do I have to push the button?

Five Minutes?
A month?
Some years?

If everybody forgets what I have done before at least I could have some fun before pressing that button, no?
NO harm done, since nobody remembers and all traces erased, don't you think?

So after ravaging the country, raping and pillagin the coastal towns, deflorating virgins, having had sex with animals and streaking around on national holidays while robbing several banks in a row with my stolen bazooka...

Hellya that's a nice prequel of pressing that button later. So YES of Course I would press it, only just give me some time to "consider" my options, please... ;-)

Now heres one answer i never expected, Well played good sir, Well played.

 

[ultimateownage]

But I dont want to die, and when I do eventually die the least I want is people to remember me, so no, I couldn't do it.

But you wouldn't die, you'd be erased. So you just got your own question wrong.

It's not really the ultimate sacrifice is it, you save the world and get to see what there is instead of life. It's only a sacrifice in the sense that what humanity gets in return is a false gain. All of it will just fuck up humanity a little bit more.

 

[DEATHROAD]

Nothing in that paragraph, either way, says that any other humans will actually survive. No humans? No humans at war. No humans? No humans starving. No humans? No unhappy humans. No humans? No crime. No humans? No humans remembering I ever existed.

This confuses me, In what way did i imply in my OP that humans wouldn't survive? i never said they would survive granted, but i didnt really need too as that had nothing to do with the question, can you elaborate please? (Also apologies in advance if ive compleatly misunderstood your post)

 

[DEATHROAD]

But I dont want to die, and when I do eventually die the least I want is people to remember me, so no, I couldn't do it.

But you wouldn't die, you'd be erased. So you just got your own question wrong.

What i was saying is that to me, being erased would be worse than death, That having to die would be terrible, but not having anyone remember me would be even worse.

*Edit* And to me, that would be the ultimate sacrifice, sacrificing not only your life, but your memory and legacy for the good of others, but it all depends on your outlook i guess.

 

[NinjaDeathSlap]

I wouldn't. Humans aren't worth it. Well majority of them anyway, so weak and stupid. They deserve all the suffering they get and then some. Specially rich and famous people and the clones that follow them.

Oh hoo-fucking-ray! The inevitable misanthropic douche is in the house. Nelson Who? Mahatma What? No, every single homo-sapiens on the planet is worth nothing more then their own weight in shit and no one human has ever done anything good for anyone else. That's why I wouldn't give up my own conscious existence to end all human suffering. Not because I value myself too much, not even because I think humans are stronger if we have to overcome ordeals to succeed. I just can't be arsed because I spend too much time in my mum's basement to see any good in the world.

If you hate us so much, then just go away because nobody cares.

OP: I'd do it. If I could end all human suffering the only thing I would need for the rest of eternity is to be able to watch the Utopia my choice created blossom and prosper.

First off, I said majority of humans aren't worth it. Get your facts straight dumbass. There's no good reason to give up my life just so corrupted, indecent, moronic factory clones such as yourself could live happily ever after. Fact is majority of humans lost their ability to overcome actual challenges. And for the record, we don't have basements where I come from. You stupid mindless fucking troll.

Nah, that would only end your suffering sooner. I'd rather go on a massacre and go down in history as an infamous killer. Still more than what you would accomplish.

Oh I'm so sorry. You're right, I should have got my facts straight. It's quite clear to me now that you have in fact met every single human being on Earth and thus been able to pass the completely fair and not at all presumed judgement that the vast majority of us don't have a single ounce of compassion within us. How could I be so moronic as to believe that that was just a completely one-sided impression that you've got from whatever band you happen to be listening to at the moment? I also commend you on your powers of clairvoyance, seem as you obviously can tell despite the fact that I have probably never seen you before that I am a "factory clone" and will never accomplish anything in my life as noteworthy as a mass murder. Now that I think about it, it just seems so clear that I am exactly the same as every single person out on the street, and they in turn are all identical to each other. We might as well all be goose-stepping in perfect rhythm, so what's the point of actually, y'know, getting to know anyone, let alone feeling something as weak and unoriginal as compassion for them when they will only disappoint me. Thank you for opening my eyes as to how futile it all is, excuse me while I go wrap my lips round a shotgun barrel.

(also, I'm sorry I wasn't aware about the fact that your mum doesn't have a basement. What is it then, her attic?)

NinjaDeathSlap, that is possibly the best thing I have read on this site. Also Zephyer, doesn't not sacrifcing yourself make you far worse then these people you hate. I would prefer to be stupid, weak and kind then a unhappy, selfish jackass if it came down to it.

I would definitly sacrifice myself for this. I'm under no illusion that I'll do something memorable anyway, the odds of that are highly unlikely. I'm fine to give up my presence and be content knowing I did good, even if no one else knows about it.

Why thank you. I guess the warning I just got is at least partially worth it for such high praise. =) I may have gone slightly overboard on the sarcasm though.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

Yes.
Absolutely.
Especially if I am not doomed to wander around invisible forever, but will actually die in time.
Edit: I don't know if I'd do it if I'd have to live for eternity though.
I can take a lifetime in loneliness if it means a perfect world though.
I'm aware of the "you can't experience happiness without sadness" bit; but OP did say that everyone was guaranteed happiness, and I take that to mean that the world is altered in such a way that everyone will experience happiness and complete contentment even though they have nothing to contrast it to.
i.e. I go with the conditions in the OP instead of going on about what the OP says will happen isn't logical. Christ people, just go with what OP says. After all, it's pretty obvious that we've abandoned logic and rules for how the world works way down the road here.

Spoiler: But how can you remove all evil from the world without also removing free will? Magic, okay? It's magic.

My theory is that the people who are finding flaws with OP's scenario do so because they are afraid to admit to themselves that they wouldn't be willing to sacrifice themselves for the good of humanity.

rouhgly this, just like the movie "the invention of lying", this is a theoretical world where all logic/barriers amongst that would break this rule are outlawed by defined magic, to keep us in our happy bubbles.

OT: Yes, i would, you know how many lives i would save every day from doing such? if i lived every life in absolute solitude knowing i've made someone's life (just one, not even the whole worlds) happier, then that's fine by me.


on the whole "slavery free will bah humbug!" crap, knock it off, your trying to pick apart a theoretical world, like the matrix/equilibrium

 

[Shoqiyqa]

This confuses me, In what way did i imply in my OP that humans wouldn't survive? i never said they would survive granted, but i didnt really need too as that had nothing to do with the question, can you elaborate please? (Also apologies in advance if ive compleatly misunderstood your post)

You didn't say whether they'd survive or not. The offer was rather vague. As a couple of others have posted, exactly how it's achieved isn't made clear. However it is done, it's got to be something far too monumental to be a decision anyone should make without knowing the details. All of humanity being wiped out, leaving me as a lonely ghost, is one way. Magic angels altering people's minds and making food grow is another. Time-stream warping to move people around to where they'll all be happy, fed and at peace is another. Given a few days on this forum, this thread could probably generate a dozen more. Without knowing which it would be, I feel unqualified to make the decision.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

Free will is what makes us human, take that away and its a bigger crime than any other act in human history. So, no I will not be responsible for stagnating humanity by that. What makes us great as a race is our potential to overcome our failings. Without that there would be no advancement, no forward thought and we as a race more or less would die out eventually from stagnation.