Poll: was i out of line?

[OctoH]

I don't think you were out of line, but then again I really hate kids.

 

[Wintermoot]

I agree with how you acted kids should know that trespassing is wrong

 

[SenseOfTumour]

I like the idea of the 'Trespassers will be shot' sign going up a clearly visible place.

Then have some gun sounds saved on your PC and play em at full volume next time you see them trying to get into your garden...

You didn't hurt anyone, and the parents will have to do some extra laundry

Or if you want to be mean, get the ball next time and just stab it.

If the parents want to claim criminal damage, remind them it'll be against all the damage their kids have done.

In the end, if you've informed the parents and nothing's getting done, why not ramp up your reactions your end until the parents decide it's worth them doing something.

 

[Xangba]

What's with people talking like the kids were attacked or something? He didn't even spank them, he basically pulled them to their mother by their ears after damaging his property and then trespassing. Oh god, how terrible. They didn't even knock or anything, they just decided to trespass and cause further damage. And I hate people who just shout at you without letting you speak, it's completely ridiculous. I don't get the whole idea that touching kids is so horrible now when not too long ago even teachers were allowed to do it.

 

[Steve Waltz]

Was it justified? Probably.

One thing for sure, is that in the eyes of the mother and children you're going to be looked as by the evil man that lives next door unless you make some kind of mends. The best thing I can think of is buying them a cake or something to go along with an apology. A plain old sorry won't help as much as an "I'm sorry gift." They might not necessarily deserve it, but you're possibly branded evil by that family and should probably make mends otherwise they'll hold a grudge for a while depending on how stubborn or fickle they are. Bad relations with neighbors can cause more problems, so even if they don't deserve it, getting back in good graces would be a positive thing for you.


Did it help? That depends on the parents' actions.

You are branded as the evil man next door so maybe the kids won't want to upset you, lest you twist their ears again, but the problem is the mother. She's on their side thinking you did wrong. The parents have the biggest influence on their children. So, if the mother and/or father didn't scold the kids for what they did, then you're in trouble of it possibly happening again.

If Mommy only coddled the children after the incident then they'll think mommy will protect them from the mean man next door. If they were also scolded by the parents (which they most rightly deserved), then they'll probably be far more careful about it ever happening again. Kids are far more scared about being punished by their parents then the man next door when their parents are there to protect them.



I really can't blame you for losing your temper, but letting the parents handle punishment would have had a much better outcome then now. The best thing you can do now is make mends to resolve the issue.

 

[Thistlehart]

Honestly, there are too many people who fail to understand the difference between physically discipling a child and beating a child black and blue. There is an equatorial span's difference between the two, and when I see this level of bleeding-heart reaction I can't help but sneer.

Were they my kids, I would have apologized, taken them by their other ears, dragged them home, given them a righteous cussing that would have peeled the paint from the walls, and then they would have been marched back to your doorstep to apologize. After that they'd have to help you repair the damage, and would also be paying for it. If they didn't have the money, they'd do chores for you until the cost of the repairs was paid off.

So, no. I don't think you were out of line. As the saying goes, "It takes a village to raise a child." For a mother to think she is the only one that can properly discipline her children simply by virtue of having given birth to them (which can be done with no training, experience, or indeed even intent) is not only delusional but arrogant.

Seriously, some parents need to get over this "I shat it out, therefore I am the only one allowed to touch it" attitude so prevalent these days.

"Never handicap your children by making their lives easy." --Robert A. Heinlein

 

[StBishop]

I can tell you right now if they'd been my children I'd be pressing charges against you.

Sorry mate, nothing personal, but where I come from (Australia) that's a crime. Two in fact: Battery and Child Abuse.

While I'm not saying I would never drop those charges, I would be wanting to do something; my options appear to be, confront you while angry and potentially do or say something I'll regret, or call the police.

I'd also be having a chat with my children and explaining to them that what they'd done is wrong and why. In fact, if I'm getting the coppers involved I may as well have them scare the kids straight with a trip down to the cop shop.

While you're right that they damaged your property (accidentally) and trespassed, I personally don't think that jumping a fence to grab a ball is all that bad. I'd be more pissed that they didn't try to knock on your door to apologise and let you know what had happened.

But no, it's not acceptable to commit a crime on a person for a crime on property. Property damage sucks, but you don't have the right to touch others, you don't have the right to hurt or harm others, and you certainly don't have a right to punish someone else's kids.

 

[Marcus Kehoe]

No, you where in the right. Maybe if they where sorry and where sorry for it I would not have been so forcible, but if they tried to run I would have used some force.

You where also probably in right with the law, you used non lethal force to obtain the trespasser's that committed 2 different crimes. I hardly call it disciplining either you just kept them where they wouldn't try to escape.

 

[Delsana]

there alot of things i like about the eu, but the no spanking your child mentality alot of them have is bs. you should of bin able to smack that kids ass for that. after words the mom should of bin like well if a kid broke my window and broke my fence, id smack his ass to.

i don't believe in beating a kid, and i think time out and grounding (with out spanking) should happen in most cases. but when a kid has the nerve to break you window, than break you fence to hide the fact he broke your window, his ass needs a smack plus some grounding.

You really misinterpreted what happened.

The kid was playing a game, the ball hit the window, the window broke, he climbed over the fence to get the ball which also broke. He wasn't breaking the window or fence on purpose and it's sheer hypocrisy for you to want uber punishment for this kid when you did the same shit as a kid yourself.

Capcha is "jump the gun", and you sure jumped the gun.

sounded like he was trying to get the ball and avoid taking responsibility for the window while in the process breaking the fence. every other time the kids went to the door. this time they tried to sneak in and cause more damage. if the kid had some honesty marched his but to the door and apologized, than in my mind did not deserve any serious punishment at all. a little time out and a stern reminder to be careful. but he tried to hide his crime by sneaking in. and for that i stand by my principles, spare the rod spoil the child.

p.s. when i was a kid i did not break peoples shit, and when i did i took responsibility for it. i was rarely spanked cause i had the common sense not to be a tool. the few times my ass got a wooping i deserved it. maybe if kids had a little more incentive to not act like tools, we have less tools in the world.

You can't say you didn't break people's "shit" but then say if you did you took responsibility for it.

Did you or didn't you?

Truth is you can say all that now, but when you were a kid you were a lot different. Stop being a hypocrite and stop insulting other kids because you're not one anymore and so you can't hope to be on their level of communication.

 

[Delsana]

I don't think you were, not even for the ear twisting (which frankly sounds totally situationally appropriate, and is exactly how it would have happened if it had been a movie). Kids should have known better than to trespass, assuming they knew it was someone's property. Lady shouldn't have yelled at you for it, but her reaction is quite understandable. She was angry, and probably a bit scared about what you were doing; odds are nobody has ever actually laid hands on her kids before (and I'd say that after trespassing and vandalizing your private property, somebody probably ought to).

Could you have handled it better? Yeah, you could have just tracked down their parents and courteously requested compensation. But at the same time, your actions will have a rather more lasting impact on all of them. And you didn't try to kill anyone, or cause permanent harm. Nobody was threatened. And everything was paid for. As long as there's no legal problems, I'd say you did fine.

Legally, it was child abuse.

There's a very big legal problem here.

Again, I sense hypocrisy for everyone forgetting what happened when they were young kid...

Depends on the region.
And by legal problems, I mean depending on whether anyone wanted to press charges. Generally, the police don't fuss with things unless people take issue with them.

And what exactly is it that we're all forgetting here?

You guys all broke things when you were really young, or your parents did, and you didn't want to take responsibility and you fled... and now look at you all taking issue with it and acting as if it's the worst thing ever and punishment ever made you stop.. bahaha such hypocrisy.

Right, but we got caught, we got punished, and we were forced to take responsibility for ourselves. What they did is not the worst thing ever, its not good, but nobody's dead or psychologically scarred. But I'm glad to hear that they got caught, they got punished, and someone took responsibility for it. Maybe one of these days they'll shape up to be decent, responsible adults like many of the other kids who did stupid things and got punished. But one thing's for sure, if they don't get punished then they probably won't learn to behave themselves.

And Punishment did, usually, make me stop.

Punishment doesn't stop things, it makes you get better at hiding it. Your "usually" indicates this. It's not punishment that gives you self-introspection, it's maturity and development of self through experiences based on your own capacity and capabilities and drives. Not the forced drives of others.

sure it does, if some one murders some one else, and you kill them for there crime. they wont be doing any more murdering. for major crimes make examples out of people, for minor crimes focus on teaching them a better way. rapist, murders, people with multiple assaults and so on deserve the harsh punishments as a warning to others, more petty crimes focus on the rehabilitation to make them a functioning member of society.

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

 

[Supertegwyn]

Twisting ears does not hurt.

Period.

Ear twisting is one of the least painful things you can do to someone. Any one who says otherwise has never had their ear twisted.

At all.

OT: You were completely in line. I can't even believe people think otherwise.

 

[rob_simple]

I wouldn't even call what you did 'disciplining.' It was just an effective method to keep ahold of them until they were returned to their mother, who shouldn't have flipped out but I'm not surprised she did (hell, I'm surprised she didn't send the police round to your door.)

 

[godofallu]

If one of my kids broke someones window and fence I would be embarrassed, apologetic, and mad/disappointed with my kid.

I wouldn't worry about it too much considering the situation is all over now and nothing bad happened.

 

[tofulove]

there alot of things i like about the eu, but the no spanking your child mentality alot of them have is bs. you should of bin able to smack that kids ass for that. after words the mom should of bin like well if a kid broke my window and broke my fence, id smack his ass to.

i don't believe in beating a kid, and i think time out and grounding (with out spanking) should happen in most cases. but when a kid has the nerve to break you window, than break you fence to hide the fact he broke your window, his ass needs a smack plus some grounding.

You really misinterpreted what happened.

The kid was playing a game, the ball hit the window, the window broke, he climbed over the fence to get the ball which also broke. He wasn't breaking the window or fence on purpose and it's sheer hypocrisy for you to want uber punishment for this kid when you did the same shit as a kid yourself.

Capcha is "jump the gun", and you sure jumped the gun.

sounded like he was trying to get the ball and avoid taking responsibility for the window while in the process breaking the fence. every other time the kids went to the door. this time they tried to sneak in and cause more damage. if the kid had some honesty marched his but to the door and apologized, than in my mind did not deserve any serious punishment at all. a little time out and a stern reminder to be careful. but he tried to hide his crime by sneaking in. and for that i stand by my principles, spare the rod spoil the child.

p.s. when i was a kid i did not break peoples shit, and when i did i took responsibility for it. i was rarely spanked cause i had the common sense not to be a tool. the few times my ass got a wooping i deserved it. maybe if kids had a little more incentive to not act like tools, we have less tools in the world.

You can't say you didn't break people's "shit" but then say if you did you took responsibility for it.

Did you or didn't you?

Truth is you can say all that now, but when you were a kid you were a lot different. Stop being a hypocrite and stop insulting other kids because you're not one anymore and so you can't hope to be on their level of communication.

i never broke a window, i never broke a fence, the worse i did was accidentally broke a friends toy and told him i did, the toy was already falling apart any ways. so not really, in my life i might of broken a few things here and there but always replaced them. i wasn't dumb enough to play base ball next to some ones house, id go to the park. so you know common sense past on by parents. don't play ball next to peoples houses. and if i was a dumb enough to do some thing like that, and try to hide the fact i did it. you bet i get my ass spanked. if i came clean right from the get go, i wouldn't be pulled out by my ear, and my dad would offer to fix it and spare some leniency. like extra choirs to pay off the window my dad had to replace. if i tried to hide it, i would get pulled out by my ear, my mom and dad would agree with it, id get a good spanking, grounded and extra choirs. so what this method teaches people who are honest when they do bad deeds get off ez, but still responsible to fix what has bin done, hide it and your punished for your treachery, and forced to fix it.

apparently you broke a lot of shit. when you say we all did this kind of stuff as a kid, you should say you.

 

[tofulove]

I don't think you were, not even for the ear twisting (which frankly sounds totally situationally appropriate, and is exactly how it would have happened if it had been a movie). Kids should have known better than to trespass, assuming they knew it was someone's property. Lady shouldn't have yelled at you for it, but her reaction is quite understandable. She was angry, and probably a bit scared about what you were doing; odds are nobody has ever actually laid hands on her kids before (and I'd say that after trespassing and vandalizing your private property, somebody probably ought to).

Could you have handled it better? Yeah, you could have just tracked down their parents and courteously requested compensation. But at the same time, your actions will have a rather more lasting impact on all of them. And you didn't try to kill anyone, or cause permanent harm. Nobody was threatened. And everything was paid for. As long as there's no legal problems, I'd say you did fine.

Legally, it was child abuse.

There's a very big legal problem here.

Again, I sense hypocrisy for everyone forgetting what happened when they were young kid...

Depends on the region.
And by legal problems, I mean depending on whether anyone wanted to press charges. Generally, the police don't fuss with things unless people take issue with them.

And what exactly is it that we're all forgetting here?

You guys all broke things when you were really young, or your parents did, and you didn't want to take responsibility and you fled... and now look at you all taking issue with it and acting as if it's the worst thing ever and punishment ever made you stop.. bahaha such hypocrisy.

Right, but we got caught, we got punished, and we were forced to take responsibility for ourselves. What they did is not the worst thing ever, its not good, but nobody's dead or psychologically scarred. But I'm glad to hear that they got caught, they got punished, and someone took responsibility for it. Maybe one of these days they'll shape up to be decent, responsible adults like many of the other kids who did stupid things and got punished. But one thing's for sure, if they don't get punished then they probably won't learn to behave themselves.

And Punishment did, usually, make me stop.

Punishment doesn't stop things, it makes you get better at hiding it. Your "usually" indicates this. It's not punishment that gives you self-introspection, it's maturity and development of self through experiences based on your own capacity and capabilities and drives. Not the forced drives of others.

sure it does, if some one murders some one else, and you kill them for there crime. they wont be doing any more murdering. for major crimes make examples out of people, for minor crimes focus on teaching them a better way. rapist, murders, people with multiple assaults and so on deserve the harsh punishments as a warning to others, more petty crimes focus on the rehabilitation to make them a functioning member of society.

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

for some people, if you don't take there eye out, they will keep ripping other peoples eyes out. more importantly your showing every one else what happens when you do some thing that stupid. for people who do horrible deeds against there fellow human, horrible deads befall them as a reminder. lesser evils should be treated as mental illness and focus on healing instead of crucifying.

an eye for an eye doesn't apply to every thing. when Gandhi said it, he new he couldn't beet the English with force, and new with mass media could win the war with the hearts and minds of the English populace. but a guy who murdered his wife for insurance pay out cant be compared to what gandhi faced. a person who casually took some one else life for personal gain is some thing society needs to remove. you cant fix every one, when some one is at the point of making money with murder, or murdering for fun. you remove them and let every one else who might take that path know what happens when you do.

now a 19 year old kid who is poor and steels a car for personal gain can be saved, with some therapy and skill training, you can send that kid back into the world able to support him self and be a functioning member of society. Leniency on those who can be saved. make an example of those who cant.

 

[Delsana]

there alot of things i like about the eu, but the no spanking your child mentality alot of them have is bs. you should of bin able to smack that kids ass for that. after words the mom should of bin like well if a kid broke my window and broke my fence, id smack his ass to.

i don't believe in beating a kid, and i think time out and grounding (with out spanking) should happen in most cases. but when a kid has the nerve to break you window, than break you fence to hide the fact he broke your window, his ass needs a smack plus some grounding.

You really misinterpreted what happened.

The kid was playing a game, the ball hit the window, the window broke, he climbed over the fence to get the ball which also broke. He wasn't breaking the window or fence on purpose and it's sheer hypocrisy for you to want uber punishment for this kid when you did the same shit as a kid yourself.

Capcha is "jump the gun", and you sure jumped the gun.

sounded like he was trying to get the ball and avoid taking responsibility for the window while in the process breaking the fence. every other time the kids went to the door. this time they tried to sneak in and cause more damage. if the kid had some honesty marched his but to the door and apologized, than in my mind did not deserve any serious punishment at all. a little time out and a stern reminder to be careful. but he tried to hide his crime by sneaking in. and for that i stand by my principles, spare the rod spoil the child.

p.s. when i was a kid i did not break peoples shit, and when i did i took responsibility for it. i was rarely spanked cause i had the common sense not to be a tool. the few times my ass got a wooping i deserved it. maybe if kids had a little more incentive to not act like tools, we have less tools in the world.

You can't say you didn't break people's "shit" but then say if you did you took responsibility for it.

Did you or didn't you?

Truth is you can say all that now, but when you were a kid you were a lot different. Stop being a hypocrite and stop insulting other kids because you're not one anymore and so you can't hope to be on their level of communication.

i never broke a window, i never broke a fence, the worse i did was accidentally broke a friends toy and told him i did, the toy was already falling apart any ways. so not really, in my life i might of broken a few things here and there but always replaced them. i wasn't dumb enough to play base ball next to some ones house, id go to the park. so you know common sense past on by parents. don't play ball next to peoples houses. and if i was a dumb enough to do some thing like that, and try to hide the fact i did it. you bet i get my ass spanked. if i came clean right from the get go, i wouldn't be pulled out by my ear, and my dad would offer to fix it and spare some leniency. like extra choirs to pay off the window my dad had to replace. if i tried to hide it, i would get pulled out by my ear, my mom and dad would agree with it, id get a good spanking, grounded and extra choirs. so what this method teaches people who are honest when they do bad deeds get off ez, but still responsible to fix what has bin done, hide it and your punished for your treachery, and forced to fix it.

apparently you broke a lot of shit. when you say we all did this kind of stuff as a kid, you should say you.

I was shy, I never broke anything, I just know all the people who did.. and they're pretty much everyone.

 

[Delsana]

I don't think you were, not even for the ear twisting (which frankly sounds totally situationally appropriate, and is exactly how it would have happened if it had been a movie). Kids should have known better than to trespass, assuming they knew it was someone's property. Lady shouldn't have yelled at you for it, but her reaction is quite understandable. She was angry, and probably a bit scared about what you were doing; odds are nobody has ever actually laid hands on her kids before (and I'd say that after trespassing and vandalizing your private property, somebody probably ought to).

Could you have handled it better? Yeah, you could have just tracked down their parents and courteously requested compensation. But at the same time, your actions will have a rather more lasting impact on all of them. And you didn't try to kill anyone, or cause permanent harm. Nobody was threatened. And everything was paid for. As long as there's no legal problems, I'd say you did fine.

Legally, it was child abuse.

There's a very big legal problem here.

Again, I sense hypocrisy for everyone forgetting what happened when they were young kid...

Depends on the region.
And by legal problems, I mean depending on whether anyone wanted to press charges. Generally, the police don't fuss with things unless people take issue with them.

And what exactly is it that we're all forgetting here?

You guys all broke things when you were really young, or your parents did, and you didn't want to take responsibility and you fled... and now look at you all taking issue with it and acting as if it's the worst thing ever and punishment ever made you stop.. bahaha such hypocrisy.

Right, but we got caught, we got punished, and we were forced to take responsibility for ourselves. What they did is not the worst thing ever, its not good, but nobody's dead or psychologically scarred. But I'm glad to hear that they got caught, they got punished, and someone took responsibility for it. Maybe one of these days they'll shape up to be decent, responsible adults like many of the other kids who did stupid things and got punished. But one thing's for sure, if they don't get punished then they probably won't learn to behave themselves.

And Punishment did, usually, make me stop.

Punishment doesn't stop things, it makes you get better at hiding it. Your "usually" indicates this. It's not punishment that gives you self-introspection, it's maturity and development of self through experiences based on your own capacity and capabilities and drives. Not the forced drives of others.

sure it does, if some one murders some one else, and you kill them for there crime. they wont be doing any more murdering. for major crimes make examples out of people, for minor crimes focus on teaching them a better way. rapist, murders, people with multiple assaults and so on deserve the harsh punishments as a warning to others, more petty crimes focus on the rehabilitation to make them a functioning member of society.

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

for some people, if you don't take there eye out, they will keep ripping other peoples eyes out. more importantly your showing every one else what happens when you do some thing that stupid. for people who do horrible deeds against there fellow human, horrible deads befall them as a reminder. lesser evils should be treated as mental illness and focus on healing instead of crucifying.

an eye for an eye doesn't apply to every thing. when Gandhi said it, he new he couldn't beet the English with force, and new with mass media could win the war with the hearts and minds of the English populace. but a guy who murdered his wife for insurance pay out cant be compared to what gandhi faced. a person who casually took some one else life for personal gain is some thing society needs to remove. you cant fix every one, when some one is at the point of making money with murder, or murdering for fun. you remove them and let every one else who might take that path know what happens when you do.

now a 19 year old kid who is poor and steels a car for personal gain can be saved, with some therapy and skill training, you can send that kid back into the world able to support him self and be a functioning member of society. Leniency on those who can be saved. make an example of those who cant.

The eye for an eye statement is actually an interpretation of something in the bible said by Jesus.

 

[tofulove]

there alot of things i like about the eu, but the no spanking your child mentality alot of them have is bs. you should of bin able to smack that kids ass for that. after words the mom should of bin like well if a kid broke my window and broke my fence, id smack his ass to.

i don't believe in beating a kid, and i think time out and grounding (with out spanking) should happen in most cases. but when a kid has the nerve to break you window, than break you fence to hide the fact he broke your window, his ass needs a smack plus some grounding.

You really misinterpreted what happened.

The kid was playing a game, the ball hit the window, the window broke, he climbed over the fence to get the ball which also broke. He wasn't breaking the window or fence on purpose and it's sheer hypocrisy for you to want uber punishment for this kid when you did the same shit as a kid yourself.

Capcha is "jump the gun", and you sure jumped the gun.

sounded like he was trying to get the ball and avoid taking responsibility for the window while in the process breaking the fence. every other time the kids went to the door. this time they tried to sneak in and cause more damage. if the kid had some honesty marched his but to the door and apologized, than in my mind did not deserve any serious punishment at all. a little time out and a stern reminder to be careful. but he tried to hide his crime by sneaking in. and for that i stand by my principles, spare the rod spoil the child.

p.s. when i was a kid i did not break peoples shit, and when i did i took responsibility for it. i was rarely spanked cause i had the common sense not to be a tool. the few times my ass got a wooping i deserved it. maybe if kids had a little more incentive to not act like tools, we have less tools in the world.

You can't say you didn't break people's "shit" but then say if you did you took responsibility for it.

Did you or didn't you?

Truth is you can say all that now, but when you were a kid you were a lot different. Stop being a hypocrite and stop insulting other kids because you're not one anymore and so you can't hope to be on their level of communication.

i never broke a window, i never broke a fence, the worse i did was accidentally broke a friends toy and told him i did, the toy was already falling apart any ways. so not really, in my life i might of broken a few things here and there but always replaced them. i wasn't dumb enough to play base ball next to some ones house, id go to the park. so you know common sense past on by parents. don't play ball next to peoples houses. and if i was a dumb enough to do some thing like that, and try to hide the fact i did it. you bet i get my ass spanked. if i came clean right from the get go, i wouldn't be pulled out by my ear, and my dad would offer to fix it and spare some leniency. like extra choirs to pay off the window my dad had to replace. if i tried to hide it, i would get pulled out by my ear, my mom and dad would agree with it, id get a good spanking, grounded and extra choirs. so what this method teaches people who are honest when they do bad deeds get off ez, but still responsible to fix what has bin done, hide it and your punished for your treachery, and forced to fix it.

apparently you broke a lot of shit. when you say we all did this kind of stuff as a kid, you should say you.

I was shy, I never broke anything, I just know all the people who did.. and they're pretty much everyone.

im glad you know all the people who broke stuff in the world as a kid. oh wait, your just pulling numbers out of your ass. not even numbers, just a generalize we all broke shit as a kid that implied on the level of what the kid did to op, and try to hide it after words.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

Child rapist and murderers in this world, sir... Sure you see a guy on a street corner grabbing some young girl by the arm and you stand back and go "I'm sure theirs a logical reason for it." then the next day the girls actual parents are on TV looking for their dead child.

Hell go one step further then that, some people are just fucked in the head. I had a guy that tried to fight me because he was upset that when he tried to enter the bathroom stall I was in that I slammed the door shut. Like it or not, you can't trust total strangers to dish out punishment...

...Which bare in mind that when people talk about the days when a village would raise a child, a parent pretty much knew EVERYONE pretty well. These days people are more isolated.

Oh look, the "everyone's a paedophile" fallacy.

This bullshit, along with "everyone's a terrorist" is how the government manages to constantly find new ways to invade our private lives. After all, it's for our -and dear little Timmy's- safety!

Try to use your common sense instead of paranoia in the future, perhaps?

Oh.. wow, I've never been able to do this before... I'm rather excited.... Okay, here goes:

NICE ARGUMENT STRAW MAN!!!!!!

Now *I* will boldly not counter your logical fallacy and feel smug and superior! MWA HA HA HA HA!!!!