Poll: Weed - Legal or Illegal?

[AgentNein]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article648195.ece
increase in crime among users. Again, least biased article source I could get.

I just have to mention that I found quite an alarmingly idiotic quote in that article;

"Mr Davy said that the downgrading of cannabis to a Class C category had sent out the wrong message to vulnerable young people and he cited the case of a 15-year-old boy who had come before Bradford Crown Court accused of murdering one of his brothers in a frenzied knife attack after drinking up to seven cans of lager and smoking several joints"

So, he drank up to seven cans of lager and smoked a few joints, and it's the joints they focus on?!

It's video game violence all over again; some guy plays Doom for an hour then gets high on heroin, cocaine and LSD all at once, then murders someone, and Jack Thompson instantly blames the video game.

You seem to be a supporter of weed legalization, seeing as you attempt to correct everyone who does not see it your way. Its a disgusting habit and should be wiped off the Earth. Why don't you just accept that some people don't want weed to be legal like you?

...I'm sorry, why would he simply accept that? As an atheist I accept that some people believe in god and go to church. If someone tried to regulate my church going however (once a week or so) I'm not going to accept that because not only is it stupid but it's getting in the way of my living my life as I see fit, when my way of living isn't infringing itself upon anybody else.

 

[Fenrisulfr]

I support legalization and do believe a person should have the right to use it. I hate the people that have become a part of this marijuana culture though that they just try to get high, they're failures in different ways, and they worship Bob Marley as some sort of patron saint. I just wish people would treat it like a normal activity instead of something special. :/ Side note: The stuff is addict(ing/ive?) and I'm sure it has a lasting effect after one use if you don't use it again for a while. Not sure about all of those negative effects that some of you have listed though. Is it really as bad as alcohol and tobacco?

 

[Peteron]

Once again, you attempt to do the same thing. You know, maybe you should try not arguing with every person who disagrees with you?

Wait, what? *chuckles* You're kidding, right?

Tell me, what do you think this is? It's a discussion forum, isn't it?

What, exactly, do you think a discussion forum is for?

I dunno, get high, as you people seem to enjoy doing.

Have never smoked weed and will most likely never do.

However, mr "Stop discussing things on a discussion forum" here appears to have been puffing something or other...

Why are you chuckling online? And thats good! Its bad for you.

 

[Adam28]

Drug driving - it may not increase to a point as bad as drunk driving but it will increase.

Is there an echo in here? Because I clearly recall adressing this particular point several times already.

What makes you think the people who are willing to drive under the influence of any drug will be MORE likely to do so if marijuana is legalized?

Lung Disease and Cancer - Again, may not be as bad as tobacco but will still cause an increase in both. Some people mix it with tobacco too, although it is unfair on those who don't, it could mean an increase in smokers.

...and the reason why you think people who choose not to smoke will suddenly take up smoking is...?

Fertility - Apparently it can reduce sperm count in a Man after heavy use, as well as reduce the chances of Women getting pregnant after heavy use.

I'll give you a little tip, free of charge; any sentence beginning with "Apparently..." or "It turns out that..." is invariably going to be complete bullshit.

Concentration - Can cause problems in learning and concentration.

Please prove it.

Mental problems - It can cause people to become anxious, suspicious or paranoid.

Unlike alcohol which makes you calm, lethargic and supresses aggressive behaviour...or is it the other way around...?

Even if the drug isn't as bad as alcohol or tobacco, we still are introducing (or increasing) these problems by legalising the drug. It doesn't matter if people can be responsible either, there is always going to be a lot of people causing problems just like with alcohol.

So, you think nobody smokes marijuana today, because of the ban?

I am not even going to bother going through the trouble of quoting and addressing each of your points. You are clearly trying to dodge all the problems weed can create. You seem to act as if weed was legalized, nothing will happen as everyone who will smoke it does so already and won't smoke more of it. I don't think you can accept the fact that just like other drugs whether legal or illegal it has his negatives.

But fine, lets ignore any consequences of making the drug legal and release yet another drug to the public.

 

[MordinSolus]

Legal with regulations.

 

[Hader]

Legal legal legal legal legal

 

[Janktrio]

I'd say make marijuana illegal. Along with tobacco. Smoking stuff in general is bad for you, that's why your body tries to cough it up, because it's SMOKE! You don't stand around a campfire trying to breath in the heavy black smoke so why do the same for weed or tobacco? Although weed should be illegal for other reasons including high addiction rates, being a "gateway drug" in that once you smoke weed for a while you'll end up craving a bigger high and end up going for more dangerous drugs, and loss of motivation. That last one I think is the most serious because it's more permamnent and long term. My teacher had told us of his friend who smoked weed. At first just casually and later, after a while, at least once a day. Afterward he quit smoking weed but he already ended up with the long term effects of loss of motivation, in that he never felt motivated to do anything, even getting up to turn off his stove or getting a job or changing his clothes. He would just kinda be like "Eh, I'll do it later." Also people claiming weed is just as safe as alcohol are silly. Drinking alcohol casually doesn't have any negative consequences. Smoking weed casually does because even 1 joint is equivalent to 20 cigarettes in terms of likelihood to develop lung cancer. So that's my two cents, ban tobacco and weed and keep alcohol legal.

Stupidity at its best right here! Non of what you put is fact by the way.

http://www.medpagetoday.com/Psychiatry/Addictions/8096

A study about how smoking pot increases chances of lung cancer.

http://www.cracked.com/article_18651_the-6-most-surprising-ways-alcohol-actually-good-you.html

An article about why drinking alcohol is good.

The rest I pieced together from what I've heard/read about. Not the best source for information but better than "Ha! You're dumb! Everything you said is wrong. Why you ask? Because weed is awesome and I have no sources for my info so I'll just make fun of you!"

 

[WrcklessIntent]

By all means legalize it round the country for medical use. Just have strict limits and specifications for those who will be allowed to have it. Recreational no. You can use the argument that alcohol is worse for you then weed and its perfectly legal, and i would agree with you. But its illegal to drive drunk and having 3 or 4 beers won't be getting anybody drunk. You can still use alcohol without abusing it. All weed does on the other hand is get you high and you use it with the intent of getting high. Also there is no way to check if anybody is high besides taking a drug test so i would like someone offer up a good way to test people in the field with results coming in 2-3 mins.
Also yes i actually have smoked weed and i don't find it appealing at all.

 

[Iron Lightning]

Since we are talking about marijuana in particular here, I feel that it's necessarily to point out that marijuana is a very relaxing drug and one is substantially less likely to intentionally harm others while on it.

Whilst I can see an argument for the legalisation of certain drugs I consider others to carry too high a risk of collateral damage. I believe in small government but living in the UK I believe there is a certain duty to try and live reasonably well, national health service and all.

Cannabis is an odd one. In theory it's harmless but in practice the UK saw a huge upsurge in usage when it was reduced to class C, this wouldn't have been a problem but we also started to see increasingly strong evidence of cannabis being linked to mental illness. Another factor that became increasingly clear was that the 'gentle stoner' stereotype was as much a product of the old cannabis culture as it was of the drug itself, as the number of users grew their connection with the 'stoner' ideal disappeared and plenty of violent crimes were committed while high. Basically the English brought our traditional slightly Nordic approach to drinking (a lot at once) to cannabis use and people were simply not doing what you'd expect stoners to do.

Personally I don't think it should be legalised yet, I reckon it will be eventually but we need to do some feasibility studies first; police costs, medical burden, taxation etc.

Also, from a personal observation, we could probably stand to go back to weaker strains.

Well yes, I've never claimed that marijuana use would completely eliminate violent behavior. However, the general lethargy caused by moderate to heavy marijuana use might effectively incapacitate the otherwise violent, thus temporarily preventing the commission of violent acts by some people.

Why do you claim that the slightly Nordic approach to cannabis use increases violent behavior? While marijuana seems to switch from an antidepressant to a depressant (i.e. switching from increasing serotonin levels to decreasing serotonin levels) when consumed in large quantities (as the Mind article that you linked suggests.) there is no evidence that it engenders aggressive behavior. As far as I know, the effects of heavy marijuana use in one sitting are simply more intense versions of the effects of lighter marijuana use, sometimes so intense that it impedes one's ability to walk. Someone who is so stoned that they are rendered incapable of walking will almost certainly commit no violent acts.

Regarding feasibility studies, I agree. However, I believe that I can make an educated guess as to a few of the outcomes of those studies that you referenced as necessary.

I expect that police costs will be decreased substantially as they would simply have one less law to enforce. While I wasn't able to find statistics on the amount of people incarcerated for marijuana related offense I was able to find that 22% of people in federal and state prisons in the United States were arrested on drug charges (ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States .) Considering the prevalence of marijuana use in modern society, the aforementioned percentage may drop by as much as half.

I cannot say what the medical burden of legalization might be. However, when one considers the medical uses of marijuana: a crop that needs no chemical treatment to be effective, one might find that the money saved from using marijuana medically outweighs the money potentially lost from an increase in accidents attributable to marijuana use.

Taxation of marijuana would almost certainly be a plus for the government. Marijuana's current nature as a criminal product means that it is sold at a price much higher than it would be sold if it were legal. This means you could impose a very high sales tax without pissing off the potheads who have grown accustomed to exorbitant prices.

Please excuse the lateness of my reply. I'm in the middle of the moving process.

 

[Homo Carnivorous]

Not just weed. All drugs should be decriminalized. Not legalized. It should not be a criminal offense to use some dope whatever it is. I hope you dont get hurt, but I see it as a medical problem that needs to be solved by doctors and psychiatrists, not a criminal one that bring down the full force of the law on you for an offense that hurts nobody but you.

The criminal problems that comes with drugs are mostly related to their legal status. The real world price of pot is equal to that of hay if it wasnt for the law. Dope addicts could be their sorry self (because law certainly hasnt stopped them so far) without having to hurt others to support their habbits. All the money spend on a "war on drugs" that we have been loosing for 50 years (drugs become cheaper and cheaper, more accesible and more potent by the year)could be used on 'harm reduction' and prevention.

Law Enforcement Against Prohobition
http://www.leap.cc/cms/index.php

*)on legalized vs. decriminalized

Legalised means the state has an opinion and says "this is ok for you to do"
Decriminalized means that the state still think its bad for you, but it wont punish you for ...well punishing you.

 

[Xannieros]

It can bring out the worst in people.

...Please explain this part of your argument. I'm pretty sure being lazy is not the worst in people.

There are people who get very addicted to it. To the point where they'll steal to get money, or even assault others just so they can get it. I'm not claiming that ALL users or even a large portion of users do.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

No need to make it more accessible than it already is. If people really want they can get it. Sure they may get an "inferior" product(eg terrible things go into soap bar).

So, if people can get it readily even while it's banned, what good is the ban doing, exactly?

It's clearly not stopping anyone from buying or selling the stuff, so what does it do?

It creates a disincentive for people to use it. Only the people who really do want it will get it. Lets be honest if you want something that it illegal you can find it. I never said people can get it readily as I don't know how easy it is to g et. I do know that people can get it and they don't seem to have much trouble getting it.

Other reasons why it and other drugs yes that is tobacco and alcohol included should be illegal is that do do damage to the person and others. Yes I know not every drug crashes cars and kills children. Neither does every wisp of second hand smoke give you cancer. Nor does every little puff of weed give you lung cancer or an effect on the person's mental state. They do have this potential and effect. As they do increase chances of various cancers they create a drain. They are a needless drain and pressure on public resources spent towards health. Once again I need to say as you are very pro weed that they do(not in every case but they do in some) lead to spin off violence. Whether this is the drug dealers bringing in weapons or people getting mugged.

Yes once again but not in all cases it is used as a gateway drug to other drugs as well. If you want you can dispute this I don't really care I know for a fact that some people are more willing to do other drugs while on weed.

Given all that yes I think it should still be illegal regardless of how accessible it already is. There is no need to make it more culturally accepted or easier to obtain. I think we should be more culturally moving away from shit like this all together.

 

[Jonluw]

Even though we do a lot of stupid things already, that's not really a good reason to legalize marijuana. I can see where you're coming from with "alcohol is legal, so should marijuana be", but the thing is that for society it would be preferrable if alcohol wasn't legal. It creates a shitload of deaths and other social problems we'd rather be without. The problem is that it's impossible to illegalize something that's been so far ingrained into our culture (see American probation).

It's far easier to keep an undesirable drug from becoming legal than it is to get rid of an already legalized drug.
Optimally, alcohol and tobacco shouldn't have been legalized in the first place.

That said, I really don't care. Marijuana is fairly harmless as drugs go, and I'd rather it was legal than alcohol.

 

[Homo Carnivorous]

It creates a disincentive for people to use it.

We have observed for 50 years that it doesnt. The alcohol ban in the US lead to what? Mafia! they still havent got rid of it.

Criminalization means handing it over to the worst of the worst people. Those who will do anything for a buck. There are no quality control or anything else companies that produce other poisons like alcohol has to follow. It is not a controlled substance by any stretch of the imagination it is the opposite. There is no control at all. With anything.

Alcohol is a controlled substance. People have access to fair priced HIGH QUALITY alcohol that doesnt make you blind, so the incentive to look for cheaper black marked produce is small to non existant. How much of a problem is moonshine? here it doesnt even register.

Other reasons why it and other drugs yes that is tobacco and alcohol included should be illegal is that do do damage to the person and others. Yes I know not every drug crashes cars and kills children. Neither does every wisp of second hand smoke give you cancer. Nor does every little puff of weed give you lung cancer or an effect on the person's mental state. They do have this potential and effect. As they do increase chances of various cancers they create a drain. They are a needless drain and pressure on public resources spent towards health.

i agree we should outlaw any personal choice that may cost the system that milks you for taxes, money. No more nascar, no more vacation flying, get rid of privately owned cars, forget about skydiving. Sugar should be banned as should high fructose corn sirup and wheat flour. Hair coloring can cause serious skin burns and may promote cancers etc...

Yes once again but not in all cases it is used as a gateway drug to other drugs as well.

Did you know that 100% of all alcoholics start with water and milk? you know what to do!

The "gateway" theory has been hammered into the ground so hard and so often I am intriqued as to how in can still exist. What has been found over and over is that it can have such an effect because of the legal status that force people to trade with people with no morals who also happens to sell more serious poison like crack. "Oh were out of budd mate, but I have this stuff here...."

There is no need to make it more culturally accepted

The only thing that could make it less culturally accepted was for it to be decriminalized or legalised.

I think we should be more culturally moving away from shit like this all together.

I also absolutely loathe personal freedom and the freedom to make bad decisions for yourself that may or may not have potential to involve others. I want it gone. People are idiots, they shouldnt be left to make their own decisions. its good we have such outstanding and hoenst politicians who knows whats best for us, otherwise people like you and me would have been lost.