Poll: Whitewashing, yay!!!

[Lieju]

Either changing race bothers you or doesn't. If you were OK with making Heimdall black, what's wrong with making (character) white?

I'll just step up and say that yeah, this is a pretty fucking valid point.
"Cultural appropriation" or whatever always gets blown way outta proportion when it's something like what OP describes, but apparently it's "genius", "new thinking", "a societal breakthrough" etc. to do something like take the ONE GOD in norse mythology whose fucking title is "The White God", and turn him black.
Totally fine.
Because double standards are A-okay so long as those perceived to be in a position of privilege are the ones being fucked.
Yes, I sort of mad.

It's not a double standard.
What people who complain about stuff like changing an asian character into white but not about the Heimdall thing want is more diversity. (Also Heimdall in the movie was not the same as the mythological Heimdall)

In that case, not being okay when a minority gets removed but being fine with more minority parts being added is not a double standard, it's a logical conclusion.

That's like if you want everyone to be economically equal, it makes sense to want the rich to get less money and the poor to have more money.

As for whitewashing, depends on the subject.

If you're adapting a book for example where everyone is Japanese because it takes place in Japan, it makes more sense to ignore that if your version takes place in another country.

But if your character is specifically a certain race in a similar setting, then it's a different matter.

 

[Whytewulf]

I think you picked the wrong movie to use as your example. The story isn't presented as historically Japanese reality. Many movie or tv adaptations of books can have changes to race or even gender. In many cases this is for financial reasons, as the majority of the US movie paying audience is young white males, but that's not to say that couldn't change. There are many fine actors of many races that can perform any role. But movie companies are in this to make money, it's a business, not a cultural remembrance. Now if it was a real historical figure it wouldn't work. I think this is less of, we need a white person in this role, as we want a big actor in this role. Again this is a US adaption, go to other countries, Japan and China and they find local actors to fill roles, historically filled by Anglo actors. The interesting thing about the US, is we are a very diverse country of inhabitants, unlike Japan, or China, which have a much higher Asian populace.

Examples, like the Last Airbender, they didn't even pick a huge actor to bank on. And that had a lot of history visually of being Asian themed and they tried it in the movie, with mostly white actors. Outside of the movie being awful, that backfired. But take Will Smith, playing Jim West in Wild Wild West (though again an awful movie), I suspect movie studios would be fine with Will Smith playing any character as he is bankable (mostly...). Or look at Irdis Elba potentially being the next James Bond.. I think that would be fantastic. And I don't think anyone would really care.

There are plenty of examples with changes in characters to try a different take on things. Let's re-do that plot but with female leads. Or let's take that plot and make it in space. Or let's take Dances with Wolves and make them Stupid Blue people who instead of offering beef jerky to animals, connect with the animals via (never mind it still is weird).

Point is, the US has a very low Asian population, and we've done a poor job or portraying Asians, in something other than Kung Fu or Doctor roles. Action movies, typically have a strong male lead, and someone like the Dwayne Johnson, Diesel, Smith, can perform those roles, just like Tatum, Jackman, or a Stallone could today. But I look forward to the day to seeing another top actor, say of Hispanic or Asian decent take command of the screen.

 

[Something Amyss]

Question is
Do you think it's justified to skip piece of adaptation media, if it makes unnecessary changes to race/nationality of main characters?

It's entertainment. It's just a fucking movie.

And hear me out, because I'm probably not going where you think I'm going.

Honestly, I can't think of a single reason that isn't justified[footnote]Well, as justified as anyone's taste in movies can be[/footnote] about not seeing a movie. Whether we agree with you, if it can impact your enjoyment, then roll with it. I mean, frankly, Tom Cruise is kind of a turn off to me, period.

I'm not a fan of whitewashing, but I'm not sure it would impact my interest in the movie. But if it bugs some people, that's fine. If they're going to be bothered and not entertained, also fine.

EDIT: Just watched the trailer. Looked alright. Not into the time travel-esque business (I detest time travel in stories) but I'm certainly up for some folks in weaponized exo-suits engaging in a wholesale wrecking of shit.

See, the trailer did something amazing to me. It made me bored with a bunch of dudes in military exo-suits. That practically made me question if everything I know might be a lie.

SEE WHAT YOU'VE DONE, TOM CRUISE?

Though that part's not really Tom Cruise's fault. IT just looked..Meh.

Maybe that's just me, though. But is it really me? I'm no longer sure.

 

[C.S.Strowbridge]

I don't mind changes in ethnicity or gender, as long as it increases the overall diversity in movies. Example, Nick Fury being changed from white to black. If it makes the movies even whiter than they are now, it is not acceptable.

 

[Kevin Puszert]

I honestly find the opposite condition more of a problem.

I think white characters are far more likely to be changed for the sake of marketing to a more diverse audience than minority characters are likely to be changed to appeal to a white audience.

 

[Kevin Puszert]

I think it creates an unrealistic perspective and reinforces an unhealthy attitude towards racial diversity to replace a character with someone from a different ethnicity and background. Modern diversity isn't about respecting each others differences, its about forcing everyone to behave the same, to fit the same mold and to put aside their cultural upbringing for the sake of bland unilateral conformity.

 

[Something Amyss]

but apparently it's "genius", "new thinking", "a societal breakthrough" etc. to do something like take the ONE GOD in norse mythology whose fucking title is "The White God", and turn him black.

Unless you want to argue the title was incredibly literal, then I don't really see the argument.

But then again, I doubt many people are calling it "genius" because of his skin colour.

(Also Heimdall in the movie was not the same as the mythological Heimdall)

Probably not that important, though, as people pitched a fit over them casting an Asian as a Norse "God" that I guess was made specifically for the comics in the first place.

However, well put. I mean, more broadly, not this specific part.

Examples, like the Last Airbender, they didn't even pick a huge actor to bank on. And that had a lot of history visually of being Asian themed and they tried it in the movie, which just white actors.

Of course, the casting of whites went specifically to the good guys. They still managed to find plenty of brown people to play the Fire Nation, and they were able to cross an ocean for such casting.

Just a strange, strange deal.

 

[magnuslion]

So I just watched Edge of Tomorrow trailer.
It looks interesting enough
Certainly my cup of tea
One tiny problem though
I looked up source material for it and it seems it was japanese light novel All You Need Is Kill
Main protagonist was young japanese (or at least asian, since I'm not sure about political situation in setting) guy named Keiji Kiriya
And what we have in movie?
William Cage played by Tom Cruise.
Really?
There wasn't any other young asian actor around Hollywood to be casted?
Or at least any other young actor?
Why miss so much when adapting character?
Why even make such unnecessary changes?
Especially in the country that claims equality'n'shit.
At this point I think I'll skip the movie and try to find translation of the novel.
But that is only my personal mini-rant.

Question is
Do you think it's justified to skip piece of adaptation media, if it makes unnecessary changes to race/nationality of main characters?

And bonus question- do you think it's justified in this particular case?

was it necessary for Samuel L Jackson to play Nick Fury, or for Idris Elba to play a Norse god? No, but you only heard a few idiots complain about it. But then I forgot, its perfectly ok to blackwash or yellowwash things, and a sin to "whitewash".

 

[norashepard]

I have no problem with traditionally white characters being played by PoC, unless their whiteness is important to the plot. Obviously Django Unchained wouldn't make much sense if the plantation owner was a south asian man.

I do have a problem with traditionally PoC characters being played by white actors because they are already underrepresented in media, and it doesn't help. I also have a huge problem with PoC playing other PoC, like a black actor playing a South Asian character. White people have the advantage, other PoC do not. Don't steal from them, especially if they are from a race that is almost never shown on screen, like Native Americans.

A perfect example of all of this is the character Isabela from Dragon Age 2. Anyone who has actually played the game knows that she looks very Middle-Eastern/Mediterranean. But in almost all fan-art I see of her, she is either pale white or dark black. Like, come on guys. Really? Her skin is like goddamned red. Character integrity ya dumbs.

In the particular case you've mentioned, yes I am rather cheesed about the race-changing.

 

[madwarper]

was it necessary for Samuel L Jackson to play Nick Fury,

Considering the current Marvel film/tv continuity is taking place in their "Ultimate" universe (Earth-1610), and the Nick Fury in the Ultimate comics is specifically designed after Sam Jackson... I'd say Yes, it was necessary.

OT: If an adaptation is good, I'm willing to overlook changing the races of some characters. However, when an adaptation is terrible, race swaps become more glaring. Such as Goku and crew in Dragon Ball Evolution, Katara and Sokka from Avatar, Kingpin from Daredevil.

 

[FPLOON]

](Although "All You Need is Kill" is a retarded title)

The title, to me, sounds like a pending Beatles slasher flick...

OT: Unless it's a really a KEY component to the story, no matter how it gets adapted in the long run, then why would it bother you in the slightest? You should be more worried if they divulge too much from the central plot or theme of the movie and, if they do change those factors, does it still give the adaptation justice somehow...

To me, I wouldn't care until I see it fully for myself...

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

I don'y care as long as it works and they suit it. I said the same with Thor and all that before, that if the actor suits the role and play it well. I have no problem with a race change or even a setting change if it works and is done well. When it does badly and arbitrarily however, it just makes it even worse.

Although on the Heimdall thing Kenneth Branagh has a bit of a penchant for race changes like that.

 

[mecegirl]

But in the kind of film like this, war action thing, I don't know any asian actors who would be good for the role. The two examples I used wouldn't be, and I don't know many others.

You need to expand your horizons.

Ken Watanabe would be a much better stand-in for a Japanese badass character than Tom Cruise ever could.

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhh! You silly! There are no good Asian actors besides Jet Li, Jackie Chan, and Bruce Lee. And Bruce Lee is dead! Don't you see! they had no choice but to cast a White man in the role!

 

[wulf3n]

Meh, it's hard to get in a huff over this after watching the new 47 Ronin trailer.

If an adaptation is good, I'm willing to overlook changing the races of some characters. However, when an adaptation is terrible, race swaps become more glaring. Such as Goku and crew in Dragon Ball Evolution, Katara and Sokka from Avatar, Kingpin from Daredevil.

The worst part about Avatar was that the rest of their tribe was still Inuit, it made no sense.

 

[Ihateregistering1]

I honestly didn't even know "Edge of Tomorrow" was based off something previously, good info. I think the movie-makers are pretty much banking on the fact that maybe 0.5% of all people are going to know that this movie is based on a Japanese novel.

But frankly, no, I couldn't care less.

If Bollywood wanted to make a movie version of "The Hunger Games", I could really care less if they got an Indian cast to play every damn character in the book.

 

[lacktheknack]

Whitewashing only bothers me if the original source had things to say about race relations/racism, and it's being cut out of the adaptation to allow whitewashing.

Otherwise, it doesn't bother me.

 

[lacktheknack]

was it necessary for Samuel L Jackson to play Nick Fury, or for Idris Elba to play a Norse god? No, but you only heard a few idiots complain about it. But then I forgot, its perfectly ok to blackwash or yellowwash things, and a sin to "whitewash".

Are you kidding? I thought I'd never hear the end of the Idris Elba thing. And then, there were many, many complaints that some characters in The Hunger Games that were freaking black in the book were being played by black actors.

Whitewashing is still tolerated more than all the others, but really, I don't think any of them are inherently bad.