Poll: Who is in the best position for the next gen: Sony or Microsoft?

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

It may be the genres I'm into but most of those are just character building moments and bonding moments.

I agree that sex scenes can be important but you only have to show very little to get the point across. For example, Big Little Lies has several sex scenes that are important to the characters but they are all short with quick cuts delivering everything needed to get across to the audience without over staying their welcome becoming basically porn.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

It may be the genres I'm into but most of those are just character building moments and bonding moments.

I agree that sex scenes can be important but you only have to show very little to get the point across. For example, Big Little Lies has several sex scenes that are important to the characters but they are all short with quick cuts delivering everything needed to get across to the audience without over staying their welcome becoming basically porn.

That's an arbitrary limitation. I don't think that the character building is removed if the scene goes longer and also has some eyecandy too. To think it somehow diminishes the storytelling or art because it's also erotic on top is just...bizarrely puritanical to me.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

I dunno, I don't find sex scenes in visual novels something you'd actually masturbate to. It may be the genres I'm into but most of those are just character building moments and bonding moments. Not exactly something to masturbate to unless you also do so while reading books.

*Snort*

I'm sorry, I hear "character-building sex scenes" in the same way I hear "I read Playboy for the articles."

Read some old Playboys, the articles actually did kick arse. They also occasionally published literature by authors unable to score publishing deals.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Also, your view of sex as having to be this very narrow definition of "maturely handled" in order to be compelling storytelling is needlessly limiting and excludes tons of good content. You are also displaying a culturally ignorant view of Japanese sex and how women typically behave in order to be more appealing during it. You're confusing lack for affirmative enthusiasm for the woman not being into it as much when in fact it's the other way around and it is the strength of the reservation and shyness that often indicates pleasure/arousal and so on in this culture. You can't watch this like it's American made content and expect women to be crass and shameless.

Thanks for making my point. Reservation and shyness being seen as a strength and that the woman is enjoying it is a fucking problem in Japanese culture. And the fact that your describing women being vocal about it as crass and shameless.. oy.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Also, your view of sex as having to be this very narrow definition of "maturely handled" in order to be compelling storytelling is needlessly limiting and excludes tons of good content. You are also displaying a culturally ignorant view of Japanese sex and how women typically behave in order to be more appealing during it. You're confusing lack for affirmative enthusiasm for the woman not being into it as much when in fact it's the other way around and it is the strength of the reservation and shyness that often indicates pleasure/arousal and so on in this culture. You can't watch this like it's American made content and expect women to be crass and shameless.

Thanks for making my point. Reservation and shyness being seen as a strength and that the woman is enjoying it is a fucking problem in Japanese culture. And the fact that your describing women being vocal about it as crass and shameless.. oy.

You say problem, I say cultural differences. Just because something isn't your cup of tea it doesn't have to be a problem and you can still comprehend something even if you disagree with it fundamentally. Like, I disagree with people not eating bacon because of a religion or with people thinking cows are sacred or what have you, I don't see it as a "problem" though, even if it'd suck if I were forced to live with that system in place. It's just how they do things over there, it's their culture and I don't care to impose mine or think of mine as being the one to correct problems of other cultures.

Either way, your issue isn't with anime or visual novels here, it's with overall Japan. Anime and other Japanese games are just informed by that culture as is natural. The unnatural thing is if they were to be informed by western culture.

 

[Squilookle]

Also, your view of sex as having to be this very narrow definition of "maturely handled" in order to be compelling storytelling is needlessly limiting and excludes tons of good content. You are also displaying a culturally ignorant view of Japanese sex and how women typically behave in order to be more appealing during it. You're confusing lack for affirmative enthusiasm for the woman not being into it as much when in fact it's the other way around and it is the strength of the reservation and shyness that often indicates pleasure/arousal and so on in this culture. You can't watch this like it's American made content and expect women to be crass and shameless.

Thanks for making my point. Reservation and shyness being seen as a strength and that the woman is enjoying it is a fucking problem in Japanese culture. And the fact that your describing women being vocal about it as crass and shameless.. oy.

You say problem, I say cultural differences. Just because something isn't your cup of tea it doesn't have to be a problem and you can still comprehend something even if you disagree with it fundamentally. Like, I disagree with people not eating bacon because of a religion or with people thinking cows are sacred or what have you, I don't see it as a "problem" though, even if it'd suck if I were forced to live with that system in place. It's just how they do things over there, it's their culture and I don't care to impose mine or think of mine as being the one to correct problems of other cultures.

Either way, your issue isn't with anime or visual novels here, it's with overall Japan. Anime and other Japanese games are just informed by that culture as is natural. The unnatural thing is if they were to be informed by western culture.

Gonna have to side with Shinji on this one. I have a friend who's lived in Osaka for the last decade, and as much as they love Japan in general, they get physically sickened by the way the country's attitude to sexuality is portrayed in its own media. "50 years behind everyone else" is one of the ways I've heard it described. Just because an attitude is endemic to an entire culture, doesn't make it correct. It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to realise that a woman having to consciously monitor and suppress her reaction levels to anything adult for the benefit of her male partner/audience is just 100% totally fucked up on a societal level.

 

[Casual Shinji]

You say problem, I say cultural differences. Just because something isn't your cup of tea it doesn't have to be a problem and you can still comprehend something even if you disagree with it fundamentally. Like, I disagree with people not eating bacon because of a religion or with people thinking cows are sacred or what have you, I don't see it as a "problem" though, even if it'd suck if I were forced to live with that system in place. It's just how they do things over there, it's their culture and I don't care to impose mine or think of mine as being the one to correct problems of other cultures.

Either way, your issue isn't with anime or visual novels here, it's with overall Japan. Anime and other Japanese games are just informed by that culture as is natural. The unnatural thing is if they were to be informed by western culture.

It's also a "cultural difference" to stone a woman to death in Saudi Arabia for cheating. If you don't see a problem with that and brush shit like that off as 'it's just their way', Jesus Christ dude. No culture should repress or discriminate a group of people, whether western or otherwise. I'd like to think that this indifference to human decency and suffering doesn't run this deep in you.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

You say problem, I say cultural differences. Just because something isn't your cup of tea it doesn't have to be a problem and you can still comprehend something even if you disagree with it fundamentally. Like, I disagree with people not eating bacon because of a religion or with people thinking cows are sacred or what have you, I don't see it as a "problem" though, even if it'd suck if I were forced to live with that system in place. It's just how they do things over there, it's their culture and I don't care to impose mine or think of mine as being the one to correct problems of other cultures.

Either way, your issue isn't with anime or visual novels here, it's with overall Japan. Anime and other Japanese games are just informed by that culture as is natural. The unnatural thing is if they were to be informed by western culture.

It's also a "cultural difference" to stone a woman to death in Saudi Arabia for cheating. If you don't see a problem with that and brush shit like that off as 'it's just their way', Jesus Christ dude. No culture should repress or discriminate a group of people, whether western or otherwise. I'd like to think that this indifference to human decency and suffering doesn't run this deep in you.

Stoning women who cheat is more something that's imposed on people who are living under a dictatorial theocracy rather than simply their culture. People are literally forced to do that because of their system of government.

Japan is a democracy and infinitely freeer than Saudi Arabia hence their culture is actually indeed just as valid as that of any other first world country and we get to tell them to be like us no more than they get to tell us to be like them. You literally have no place to stand to say this, even if you think you're 50 years ahead and whatnot. That's just arrogance if someone thinks that.

Also for the record I think it's pretty cynical to think all those normal people in Saudi Arabia are willing members of a death cult and share in its culture. I think in essence they're held captive by it. I'm sure most people would not choose to actually kill women who cheat if they weren't under pressure of conforming to the state religion over the barrel of a gun (or over the edge of a sword as it were).

 

[Silvanus]

Funny that Sony's worst has been better than Nintendo's and Microsoft's best so...

You can't be talking about sales or general reception here, so... what are you talking about?

 

[Casual Shinji]

Stoning women who cheat is more something that's imposed on people who are living under a dictatorial theocracy rather than simply their culture. People are literally forced to do that because of their system of government.

Japan is a democracy and infinitely freeer than Saudi Arabia hence their culture is actually indeed just as valid as that of any other first world country and we get to tell them to be like us no more than they get to tell us to be like them. You literally have no place to stand to say this, even if you think you're 50 years ahead and whatnot. That's just arrogance if someone thinks that.

Also for the record I think it's pretty cynical to think all those normal people in Saudi Arabia are willing members of a death cult and share in its culture. I think in essence they're held captive by it. I'm sure most people would not choose to actually kill women who cheat if they weren't under pressure of conforming to the state religion over the barrel of a gun (or over the edge of a sword as it were).

Every culture has the capacity to hold its people captive in some form or another. That's what cultures and traditions tend to do. I'm sure if you ask individual japanese citizens if they have anything againsts foreigners they'd say no, and actually mean it. That doesn't mean Japan overall isn't way less inclined to accept foreigners.

And this isn't about what cultures are superior to others, but about what aspects of certain cultures are just not good for decent human living. Japan practically has zero gun crime, which is good. It also puts a ludicrous emphasis on productivity with normalized 110 hour work weeks, resulting in people literally working themselves to death, a situation that actually has a word for it in Japan. And that's bad. Brushing that off by claiming 'that's just their culture' and 'it's just as valid as that of any other first world country' completely ignores that this is a problem that this country needs to work on. Just as America needs to work on it's rampant gun crime, or how other countries treat its elderly/mentally handicapped like complete shit.

Every country has its problems, problems that result in human suffering, physically and/or emotionally. And saying that addressing these problems is arrogant isn't how you take steps to actually solving these problems. And if people are plainly being put in a corner expecting them to act a certain way, like women having to act shy and demure, then that's a cultural difference that's very problematic.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Stoning women who cheat is more something that's imposed on people who are living under a dictatorial theocracy rather than simply their culture. People are literally forced to do that because of their system of government.

Japan is a democracy and infinitely freeer than Saudi Arabia hence their culture is actually indeed just as valid as that of any other first world country and we get to tell them to be like us no more than they get to tell us to be like them. You literally have no place to stand to say this, even if you think you're 50 years ahead and whatnot. That's just arrogance if someone thinks that.

Also for the record I think it's pretty cynical to think all those normal people in Saudi Arabia are willing members of a death cult and share in its culture. I think in essence they're held captive by it. I'm sure most people would not choose to actually kill women who cheat if they weren't under pressure of conforming to the state religion over the barrel of a gun (or over the edge of a sword as it were).

Every culture has the capacity to hold its people captive in some form or another. That's what cultures and traditions tend to do. I'm sure if you ask individual japanese citizens if they have anything againsts foreigners they'd say no, and actually mean it. That doesn't mean Japan overall isn't way less inclined to accept foreigners.

And this isn't about what cultures are superior to others, but about what aspects of certain cultures are just not good for decent human living. Japan practically has zero gun crime, which is good. It also puts a ludicrous emphasis on productivity with normalized 110 hour work weeks, resulting in people literally working themselves to death, a situation that actually has a word for it in Japan. And that's bad. Brushing that off by claiming 'that's just their culture' and 'it's just as valid as that of any other first world country' completely ignores that this is a problem that this country needs to work on. Just as America needs to work on it's rampant gun crime, or how other countries treat its elderly/mentally handicapped like complete shit.

Every country has its problems, problems that result in human suffering, physically and/or emotionally. And saying that addressing these problems is arrogant isn't how you take steps to actually solving these problems. And if people are plainly being put in a corner expecting them to act a certain way, like women having to act shy and demure, then that's a cultural difference that's very problematic.

Japan accepts foreigners but as any other homogeneous country where literally everyone you ever meet is from your same country and race and your only exposure to foreigners is from tv or the internet, certain attitudes will form. That's not really Japanese culture as it is the innate tribal nature of humans. I know how it is like because I grew up in a similar country. It's not that you don't accept them but rather that they're just so unusual and out of the ordinary that you have no idea what to expect out of them. Some people deal with that uncertainty in less constructive ways than others but it's not an issue about culture.


As for kuroushi (dying from overwork) and other actual cultural issues in Japan, those are problems that are theirs to fix and the way we would approach them isn't really relevant so it's not our place to tell them that. As for their actual pressing issues, it's not how women are expected to be demure but rather that there's extremely low birth rates due to the cost of having a family and kids and women being housewives instead of going and getting jobs.

I remember reading this story about some parents being upset at having to pay something around $900 out of pocket for school uniforms for their kids made by a fashion designer in order to teach them the value of their possessions, the assumption being that they'd take care of their uniforms more if they were worth that much. Average people sure as hell can't afford these kinda costs lol.

 

[Trunkage]

No

 

[Yoshi178]

-Looks at the history of gaming-

Considering Sony's past decisions I'm gonna put the chances of them fucking up at "Really Fucking High."

Funny that Sony's worst has been better than Nintendo's and Microsoft's best so...

Zelda says hi. :3

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

I agree that sex scenes can be important but you only have to show very little to get the point across. For example, Big Little Lies has several sex scenes that are important to the characters but they are all short with quick cuts delivering everything needed to get across to the audience without over staying their welcome becoming basically porn.

That's an arbitrary limitation. I don't think that the character building is removed if the scene goes longer and also has some eyecandy too. To think it somehow diminishes the storytelling or art because it's also erotic on top is just...bizarrely puritanical to me.

You don't need to show more than you need regardless of if it's a sex scene or just straight dialogue.

Funny that Sony's worst has been better than Nintendo's and Microsoft's best so...

You can't be talking about sales or general reception here, so... what are you talking about?

More to do with how each company treats their customers. If the PS3 is Sony's black sheep and all they did was put too much tech in it causing the price to be too high (while losing money on each unit so not overcharging the customer), that's far better than the 360, which MS knew was hardware waiting to break (among many many other things), and the Wii's abysmal game library with forced motion controls. Yeah, I'll take Sony's worst over the best MS and Nintendo have mustered.

-Looks at the history of gaming-

Considering Sony's past decisions I'm gonna put the chances of them fucking up at "Really Fucking High."

Funny that Sony's worst has been better than Nintendo's and Microsoft's best so...

Zelda says hi. :3

In what bizarro world do you have the N64 being the better console than the PS1?

Game scores are a joke. I could leverage all those Rockstar games getting 97s and 98s as games Nintendo systems don't have even though I wouldn't rate any of them above a 5 and you don't like them either. Any game getting a 95+ score, I rarely find to even be 5/10 good honestly.

 

[Erttheking]

I dunno, I don't find sex scenes in visual novels something you'd actually masturbate to. It may be the genres I'm into but most of those are just character building moments and bonding moments. Not exactly something to masturbate to unless you also do so while reading books.

*Snort*

I'm sorry, I hear "character-building sex scenes" in the same way I hear "I read Playboy for the articles."

Yeah and that's again a restrictive and close minded assumption you're making.


If you think about it rationally, how could a sex scene not be character building and reveal properties of a character's personality or deepen the bond between people. It obviously does all these things.

You may be conflating it with porn or hentai or what have you, which is not what I'm referring to here. This is just sex as a part of life and not as a taboo thing that you get as a guilty pleasure treat.

If we weren?t there talking about VNs I?d be inclined to agree with you. As it stands we?re talking about a medium that?s well known for trashy story telling whenever it tries to include sex.

-Looks at the history of gaming-

Considering Sony's past decisions I'm gonna put the chances of them fucking up at "Really Fucking High."

Funny that Sony's worst has been better than Nintendo's and Microsoft's best so...

Vita says hi.

 

[Silvanus]

More to do with how each company treats their customers. If the PS3 is Sony's black sheep and all they did was put too much tech in it causing the price to be too high (while losing money on each unit so not overcharging the customer), that's far better than the 360, which MS knew was hardware waiting to break (among many many other things), and the Wii's abysmal game library with forced motion controls. Yeah, I'll take Sony's worst over the best MS and Nintendo have mustered.

Right, but those are carefully chosen examples. You would take the Vita over the N64 or SNES?

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

More to do with how each company treats their customers. If the PS3 is Sony's black sheep and all they did was put too much tech in it causing the price to be too high (while losing money on each unit so not overcharging the customer), that's far better than the 360, which MS knew was hardware waiting to break (among many many other things), and the Wii's abysmal game library with forced motion controls. Yeah, I'll take Sony's worst over the best MS and Nintendo have mustered.

Right, but those are carefully chosen examples. You would take the Vita over the N64 or SNES?

Plus Sony's worst literally cost them everything they ever earned on the PS1 and PS2 and the tech shoved in was not only overpriced, it made things a pain in the ass to develop for with the added wrinkle of Sony not doing a good job on assisting third parties with it. It's going to take a LONG time for someone to top that in terms of "worst"

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Vita says hi.

Talking consoles.

More to do with how each company treats their customers. If the PS3 is Sony's black sheep and all they did was put too much tech in it causing the price to be too high (while losing money on each unit so not overcharging the customer), that's far better than the 360, which MS knew was hardware waiting to break (among many many other things), and the Wii's abysmal game library with forced motion controls. Yeah, I'll take Sony's worst over the best MS and Nintendo have mustered.

Right, but those are carefully chosen examples. You would take the Vita over the N64 or SNES?

How are they carefully chosen examples? PS3 was Sony's biggest fumble and it was still the best system for its generation (which was Wii and 360). Talking consoles. Phones now own the portable market even from Nintendo.

Plus Sony's worst literally cost them everything they ever earned on the PS1 and PS2 and the tech shoved in was not only overpriced, it made things a pain in the ass to develop for with the added wrinkle of Sony not doing a good job on assisting third parties with it. It's going to take a LONG time for someone to top that in terms of "worst"

That was a time when consoles all went for some propriety chip, now it's all x86 (which really wasn't a great choice for consoles until this gen). At least the PS3 like, you know, worked when 360 was complete shit hardware. Having a hard drive and wi-fi from the start made PS3 far better than the 360 for the consumer's value. OG 360s didn't have wi-fi, HDs, or HDMI ports. 360s not having HDs hamstrung developers as well. Xbone selling for $100 more because of Kinect is far worse than PS3's high cost tech that was all at least used for games. It's not hard to find bigger fumbles than the PS3.

 

[CaitSeith]

Vita says hi.

Talking consoles.

Vita is console.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Vita says hi.

Talking consoles.

Vita is console.

Really? Non-handhelds, the thread is literally about the next-gen consoles (and Sony and MS ain't making handhelds, they'd both be pretty stupid to do so).