Poll: Yahtzee changes joke in ZP video

[Xdeser2]

"Anyone who gets offended by a joke is too thinned skin"

Says the person who wasn't part of the group made fun of.

Personally, I found the joke funny, but I'm not a person who feels like they were born the wrong gender. In the end, It's Yahtzee's series, and he decided to change it, so no amount of bitching whether or not it was "Right" or people are too "Thin Skinned" Is gonna change a damn thing

 

[chinangel]

Firstly, I'm not sure if you're joking or not. No indicator of it being a joke so I'll assume this is serious. Forgive me If I'm wrong. Please understand that I mean no disrespect towards you and honestly believe that there is nothing wrong with you. Please keep that in mind for this discussion so that you don't have to feel like you're defending yourself or transexuals against me.

Second, fantasizing about a dick is not a heterosexual fantasy. I'm sorry, but that is decidedly less heterosexual every step you go in that direction. What is true is that heterosexuals may have homosexual fantasies. This particular fantasy is generally known to have a female who is female in every area of appearance except the one. There is also a difference between fantasy and action. It's important to know that there are two definitions for what male is thanks to a modern understanding of it whereas there used to be only one and transgenderism was shoved off to the side. The psychological male/female gender and the sexual maleness/femaleness (previously also called gender until the fluidity of gender identity became recognized and accepted). Homosexuality is not typically defined along the lines of pyschological gender. It is most commonly referred to along the lines of sexuality. This is perhaps why the term itself contains the term sexuality. A transgendered female's sexuality does not necessarily follow their gender. I've known of few individuals (originally physically male) who actually went post-op female while still happily married to their cisfemale wives. That is to say, happily married on their end. The wives usually had a significant problem with the physical change.

as I said before: gay men are attracted to masculinity, tell me what is masculine about a pair of breasts? Nothing. Transsexual porn is not directed at gay men because it features a man/woman and a transsexual. It's targeted at heterosexual and bisexual men.

I'm sorry but i've read a lot on this (my library had a shockingly large amount on the subject) and well...the fact is that heterosexual men are attracted to femininity, gay men: masculinity.

There are just some men who fetishize (sp?) a woman with a dick, and they identify as heterosexual, it's why futanari hentai is so prevalent.

it's a weird thing about sexuality I suppose.

 

[TallanKhan]

I think the joke should have remained. I don't think creatives should have to self censor to appease people they offend. I am not saying people shouldn't have been offended by it, offence is subjective and as such it is an individual's prerogative to be offended by whatever it is that offends them. However, unless the person who caused the offence did so deliberatley, which i don't think anyone would claim is the case here, then I don't believe the person who caused the offence can legitimatley be held accountable for it. I for instance find it offensive when someone talks to me while stuffing their mouth with food, but i recognise its my problem and i just have to get on with it.

And before anyone jumps down my throat with any "ah yes but this was offensive towards a minority group and thats worse" arguments, maybe it was, but anyone, and i genuinely mean anyone can be part of a victimised minority if they look far enough to justify it.

 

[5ilver]

For the first time, I'm disappointed by Yahtzee. But I can't really blame him, he probably got threatened by higher ups.

 

[Smeatza]

It is for transpeople. The joke unintentionally perpetuates an idea that makes lives more difficult for the trans community.

Some questions.
How does a joke, which is bases it's humour in ignorance, exaggeration and generalisation, perpetuate any kind of serious idea?
Why is Yahtzee allowed to "perpetuate ideas (ugh)" for every other group in the world, but trans folks?
Why is harassment (if that's what the backlass constituted of) an acceptable avenue for persuading Yahtzee to censor himself?

I don't think that was Yahtzee's intention, but its how many people understood it, and if he doesn't want somebody to think the idea he accidentally perpetuated, wouldn't the right thing to do be to amend his content in some way?

Seen as he's not a professional comedian, maybe. If he wishes to acknowledge that some people took offense, fine. But I think it should be a two way street, he should be educating those who took offense from the joke in the fundamentals of comedy.

I doubt we'll come to an agreement here. I think it's okay for people to think "if you have a penis you're male if you have a vagina you're female."
And like I said before, one of the cornerstones of comedy is generalisation.

 

[Strazdas]

Its a joke, its not offensive by definition.

Funny, this is Merriam-Webster's definition of a joke:

Noun

a : something said or done to provoke laughter; especially : a brief oral narrative with a climactic humorous twist

Doesn't mention anything about being offensive. Most jokes have a victim, the butt of the joke. Yahtzee's intended butt of the joke is a closeted politician trying to defend his affairs. However, he worded it in a way that implies that transsexual women aren't women, hence transphobic, hence why people were upset. Nobody really gets upset when a lying asshole hypocrite is the butt of the joke, but when its a marginalized minority and the joke accidentally perpetuates hate for said minority, there's a good reason to be upset with the joke. Note that I said "the joke", not "the joke-teller".

A joke is done to provoke laughter. It is not done to provoke offence or offend others. Thus the definition as you posted yourself is kind of self explanatory. Jokes dont ahve victims. some people think that everything they dont like makes them victims is all.

 

[IceForce]

For the first time, I'm disappointed by Yahtzee. But I can't really blame him, he probably got threatened by higher ups.

You mean the Escapist threatened to fire him if he didn't change it and apologize?
I find that a bit hard to believe, given how ZP is the biggest drawcard to this website.

Without Yahtzee, this website would get SIGNIFICANTLY less traffic.

So I don't think the management here would be able to dictate things to him like this. He'd have more 'sway' than that.

 

[Strazdas]

Its a joke, its not offensive by definition.

Funny, this is Merriam-Webster's definition of a joke:

Noun

a : something said or done to provoke laughter; especially : a brief oral narrative with a climactic humorous twist

Doesn't mention anything about being offensive. Most jokes have a victim, the butt of the joke. Yahtzee's intended butt of the joke is a closeted politician trying to defend his affairs. However, he worded it in a way that implies that transsexual women aren't women, hence transphobic, hence why people were upset. Nobody really gets upset when a lying asshole hypocrite is the butt of the joke, but when its a marginalized minority and the joke accidentally perpetuates hate for said minority, there's a good reason to be upset with the joke. Note that I said "the joke", not "the joke-teller".

A joke is done to provoke laughter. It is not done to provoke offence or offend others. Thus the definition as you posted yourself is kind of self explanatory. Jokes dont ahve victims. some people think that everything they dont like makes them victims is all.

Ok that's just crazy talk. Plenty of jokes can be written specifically to offend. Bernard Manning was a racist old prick and wrote jokes specifically for racist old pricks. Providing laughter and offending others are not mutually exclusive. You can make others laugh by insulting minority groups the comedian and audience both dislike.

That may be, but he wrote jokes, not insults. a joke is a joke regardless who wrote it. being a joke already implies it is not seriuos, thus it is not an insult. providing languhter can be offensive. making a joke cant. Dark humour is considered humour and not insults for a reason.

 

[Caiphus]

Is it embarrassing for me if I admit that I'd never heard of "pantomime dames" before this whole controversy blew up?

You're in good company.

And by that, I mean you're in company with me.

And I have a half-eaten steak burrito that you can get in on. (Upon reading that, I realise it sounds kinky. It isn't. There's nothing kinky about my steak burrito).

 

[SayHelloToMrBullet]

There was never anything offensive about the original joke, people just decided to put way too much thought into it.

I would've preferred if Yahtzee had left the joke alone. I mean I didn't find it funny or anything, but changing it just to keep the crowd happy is not right.

 

[nuttshell]

Allright, let's spice this up. Please read through the whole post, as the first part is very controversial. Yeah, we're going for Godwin's Law!

Many people disregard the fact that Hitler wasn't just a psychopathic mass murderer. He had his hopes, his fears, he stood under a lot of preassure and he valued art very much. This doesn't change or excuse the fact, that he was also a psychopathic mass-murderer. The fact that he was human and still commited terrible atrocities, spreads fear, anger and disgust and many people would rather not talk about these things. It also makes him a good target for jokes, which means people talk about him. If we stopped talking about these things, pretending they didn't happen, we can't do anything to prevent them. It's that simple. The fact, that many people still commit to exterminating all jews on this planet - a horrifying idea - doesn't change or excuse every action ever done by every jew and the state of israel or it's allies. And still, people are regularly shut up, when they voice their criticism.

No, I think, it's wrong, Yahtzee changed his joke. However, I think he should have clarified, how the joke was intended, and admit to a bad presentation, given the controversy around it. He clarified his change, so that's allright. But changing the joke stops people who will hear it in the future and dont read the disclaimer, to have a discussion about it like this one.

 

[Lightknight]

as I said before: gay men are attracted to masculinity, tell me what is masculine about a pair of breasts? Nothing. Transsexual porn is not directed at gay men because it features a man/woman and a transsexual. It's targeted at heterosexual and bisexual men.

I'm sorry but i've read a lot on this (my library had a shockingly large amount on the subject) and well...the fact is that heterosexual men are attracted to femininity, gay men: masculinity.

There are just some men who fetishize (sp?) a woman with a dick, and they identify as heterosexual, it's why futanari hentai is so prevalent.

it's a weird thing about sexuality I suppose.

It should be assumed that by the nature of the joke that this was a pre-op transexual with a dick that the individual was sexually a male. How, in your scenario, is the individual supposed to have feminine breasts if they're pre-op (aka, have not undergone a sex change in which breast augmentation is usually part of the process)? Hormonal supplementation can do a little along those lines but it doesn't go the full-nine yards.

I get that there is a culture around what you're specifically talking about, but I fail to see how it applies to this particular setup? I believe your particular offense would only make sense if Yahtzee had used a term like shemale or something to indicate that it was a feminine individual that differed from females in only one region. You don't seem unreasonable, so perhaps looking at it from this angle may shed a new light on the topic.

Thanks for your response, by the way. I hope I'm not making you feel uncomfortable or insulted.

 

[Cabisco]

Anyone who gets offended by a joke is too thinned skin.

I've heard some godawful jokes in my time, but I've never once been offended by. Sure, I've found them tasteless, crude, etc, but not once have I thought 'You know what? This joke hurts my feelings. Time to let everyone know just how hurt my feelings are."

The joke in question was more about cognitive dissonance, then it was a dig at transsexuals, but then again, I've seen some really obvious Critical Miss jokes fly right over the heads of people around here, so hey, what do I know?

No such thing as thin skin when you're the butt end of ridicule.

It hurts, man. Regardless of how much of a tough-guy you think you are. No one likes to be laughed at or made fun of.

Except he wasn't making fun of transsexuals, again, he was making fun of homophobes and a system that refuses to acknowledge transsexuals.

It has nothing to do with being a tough guy, it's about not having a persecution complex and actually recognising the real joke.

I don't give a fuck what's between your legs and when, but that doesn't mean you're out of bounds when it comes to taking the piss.

I think you've pretty much summed up my feelings on this. I remember when these forums were all about how shitty getting the RROD was, simpler times man.

 

[Rosiv]

as I said before: gay men are attracted to masculinity, tell me what is masculine about a pair of breasts? Nothing. Transsexual porn is not directed at gay men because it features a man/woman and a transsexual. It's targeted at heterosexual and bisexual men.

I'm sorry but i've read a lot on this (my library had a shockingly large amount on the subject) and well...the fact is that heterosexual men are attracted to femininity, gay men: masculinity.

There are just some men who fetishize (sp?) a woman with a dick, and they identify as heterosexual, it's why futanari hentai is so prevalent.

it's a weird thing about sexuality I suppose.

It should be assumed that by the nature of the joke that this was a pre-op transexual with a dick that the individual was sexually a male. How, in your scenario, is the individual supposed to have feminine breasts if they're pre-op (aka, have not undergone a sex change in which breast augmentation is usually part of the process)? Hormonal supplementation can do a little along those lines but it doesn't go the full-nine yards.

I get that there is a culture around what you're specifically talking about, but I fail to see how it applies to this particular setup? I believe your particular offense would only make sense if Yahtzee had used a term like shemale or something to indicate that it was a feminine individual that differed from females in only one region. You don't seem unreasonable, so perhaps looking at it from this angle may shed a new light on the topic.

Thanks for your response, by the way. I hope I'm not making you feel uncomfortable or insulted.

Well HRT can make a completely feminine body that has a dick, so its possible, i dont want to be crude, but there are pre-operative pornstars that have surprised me on a many occasion of browsing. I mean it depends on the age of transition, i dont really think MtF get breast implants anyways, else that would conflict with the HRT they would take, ie: breast growth on breast growth.

I guess it comes down to what pre-op means, which is iffy. Although if you consider the phrase op to mean operation, then it would connotate the vaginoplasty, which doesnt exclude HRT.

 

[Arkynomicon]

I think people needs to stop whining about everything that is slightly offensive. They make the world a very boring place.

 

[Uncreation]

I have to say, if the change, was actually caused by peoples whinning and was not just a decision that he came to by himself, then i have lost a lot of respect for Yahtzee. I still hope he isn't the kind of person to cave to the bitching of the masses like that.

 

[Lightknight]

Well HRT can make a completely feminine body that has a dick, so its possible, i dont want to be crude, but there are pre-operative pornstars that have surprised me on a many occasion of browsing. I mean it depends on the age of transition, i dont really think MtF get breast implants anyways, else that would conflict with the HRT they would take, ie: breast growth on breast growth.

I guess it comes down to what pre-op means, which is iffy. Although if you consider the phrase op to mean operation, then it would connotate the vaginoplasty, which doesnt exclude HRT.

I'd say you're taking offense to what would be a very specific situation. An exception to the norm of an already uncommon demographic. I think the intention was pretty clear in the context of the discussion. It was referring to a transexual female who was still every bit a male physically. As you stated, heterosexual males are attracted to femininity and homosexual males to masculinity. His point was very much on an individual attracted to masculinity.

I just think it's clear and that you'd have to work at it for a few exceptions for male bodies that recieved HRT at a VERY young age. Most don't get that opportunity. In fact, it's commonly considered unethical to give them before a reasonable age in many places.