Problems that men have to deal with

[piketheguy]

so lets talk about physical assault then, fight back. If you get beat down and it happens to all guys, you never win all fights (which is actually a good argument to stay in shape and learn to defend yourself) pick yourself up and make a plan to prevent that happening again. Call the cops, cuz thats an option, but that should not be your plan. Your plan whould be how to win the next fight NOT how to AVOID the fight, but how to win.

If you want to make the argument you cant fight back if you are dead, take some advice from someone with eight years in the military, death is coming for everyone, there is absolutely NOTHING you can do about death, its going to happen to everyone, and is NOT something you can ever plan to stop.

 

[Simonism451]

"today's hyper feminized society" can someone explain to me what ppl are reffering to when they use this term? As in, for example, what are the traits of this feminized society?

I think the existence of tumblr is example enough, no?

You're right, gifs are so faggy.

 

[Erttheking]

"today's hyper feminized society" can someone explain to me what ppl are reffering to when they use this term? As in, for example, what are the traits of this feminized society?

I think the existence of tumblr is example enough, no?

You're right, gifs are so faggy.

Do they still put gifs on tumblr? I thought it was all just Gender Studies majors and other members of the Future Baristas of America ranting about the depredations of the patriarchy.

.

That's a stereotype. Trust me, I've explored tumblr a fair bit. If it was all screaming about the patriarchy there wouldn't be so much porn

 

[Thaluikhain]

"today's hyper feminized society" can someone explain to me what ppl are reffering to when they use this term? As in, for example, what are the traits of this feminized society?

I think the existence of tumblr is example enough, no?

You're right, gifs are so faggy.

Do they still put gifs on tumblr? I thought it was all just Gender Studies majors and other members of the Future Baristas of America ranting about the depredations of the patriarchy.

It's more weird porn and celebrities spouting gibberish.

Even if there was a site used by people unhappy with the patriarchy, not sure why we should think society as a whole was feminised.

 

[Simonism451]

"today's hyper feminized society" can someone explain to me what ppl are reffering to when they use this term? As in, for example, what are the traits of this feminized society?

I think the existence of tumblr is example enough, no?

You're right, gifs are so faggy.

Do they still put gifs on tumblr? I thought it was all just Gender Studies majors and other members of the Future Baristas of America ranting about the depredations of the patriarchy.

It's more weird porn and celebrities spouting gibberish.

Even if there was a site used by people unhappy with the patriarchy, not sure why we should think society as a whole was feminised.

And a whole lot of teenage girls infatuated with anime versions of Nazi Germany. Tumblr's weird in a whole lot of ways the average internet person doesn't even get to see.

 

[Lokis Maliki]

snip

Yes but how many of those expectations are self imposed? How many are assuming a social title where they do not meet the requirements or or are not willing to conform to them? Thus my Man vs Male question. If someone refers to them self as a "Man" is it societies responsibility to conform the definition to fit them, or is it their responsibility to either meet the requirements of the title or choose another one? In this case, "Male".

It seems to me that some of the complaints are not the complaints with being "Male" in society but rather a "Man" or "Manly" expectations. I just find it absurd that some will declare them selves a "Man" but whine about "Manly" expectation society places on them. Simple solution, stop misrepresenting themselves as a "Man" and just say "Male".

In my view having a separate sub-gender for men within the male gender will solve many of the problems without having to drag all males down the same path. Many men are satisfied with being "Men" and apparently some are not.

Don't get me wrong there are serious offenses placed against males in today's hyper feminized society, I just feel we are splitting hairs when people are making complainants such as people expecting them to like or play sports.
I mean come on, really?!

fair point.

I think the issue is that there are perceptions and that, in order to not conform to them, a person must be willing to fight for their entire life.

You might find the concept of micro-aggression and how it maintains cultural standards interesting.

Regardless, while I agree with you that a simple shift in perception is useful and could stop a lot of hurt feelings, it is sadly much easier said than done. When there is no dialogue, people feel isolated. Dialogue can create a sense that a least you are not alone. In accepting that you don't fit within the dominant paradigm for accepted behaviour, not feeling alone is worth a lot.

For this reason, I do see the distinguishing between man and male as premature here. Venting and support are two things that allow people to defy social norms. As I interpret the OP, that is what he is trying to do... to see if he is not out to lunch and foolish. That in defying extremely strict standards of social conduct, that what he is doing and feeling are not wrong.

I could be mistaken, this is just how I view the purpose of this thread.

josh

Post Note: I have traveled extensively and have only just returned to my country of birth after living abroad for ten years. I find that Western culture says to be yourself, but uses social aggression to force people to be themselves within strict delineated areas. If getting a few people to back him up so that it is easier for him to happy with the stats nature rolled him is all he needs, I for one support the OP and the thread.

 

[Lokis Maliki]

heres the thing, once you hit 30, NONE OF THIS SHIT MATTERS, any adult who lets this random bullshit get to them really should learn to let it go. The real problems male face? Prostate cancer. Thats a real thing you should worry about, what any other person on this planet thinks about you, does not fucking matter, so fuck em. For all you guys 29 and under, listen to the old geezer who remembers dial-up and when gatorade came in glass bottles, none of this social crap about men and women matter to anyone. The majority of the population of this world only care about making enough money to be comfortable and if their family is taken care of. Thats it.

Look up male isolation and suicide rates. Maybe you are one of the lucky ones who has not been caught up in this cycle.

Also, the Aussie concept of Sheds for men. A lot of interesting research in those areas.

 

[Harpalyce]

I'm just going to toss a radical feminist idea in here that I'm sure will bring approximately fifteen million people down upon my head screaming at the top of their lungs:

Okay, imagine a venn diagram. One part is "problems men have to deal with" along this thread's line. Another part is "problems feminism wishes to address".

Got it? Okay, good. Now let me tell you something gamechanging:

That venn diagram is just one circle. There is complete overlap.

When you go down to the root of so many of these problems, they're all about proving masculinity. They're all about doing that TO NOT BE FEMININE - and it's about the fear of being feminine. Why? Because being feminine is bad. That's what society teaches us. Therefore only the worst sort of man would be feminine, right? So men grow up with this huge burden, and that burden is lablled Don't Be Girly. It hurts them in school. It hurts them in their daily lives. It hurts their emotional development. It hurts their relationships with people. It even might hurt their careers. It's what isolates. It's what drives people to suicide. They think they've failed this standard of Don't Be Girly, or can't find a way out that's not Too Girly. I mean, for fuck's sake, it's a demonstrable thing that men don't go to the doctor when they need to because "toughing it out" is the "manly" thing to do! Never mind what that mindset does to somebody with depression - think about the guy having a heart attack who goes "no, I'm not going to the ER, I can walk this off because I'm not a sissy". Sissy. GIRLY.

At the root of all this is the fear of being girly.

So what happens when we get rid of this archaic standard that men and women must be polar opposites? What happens when we fight to make it clear that being girly is okay too, because girly doesn't mean weak?

We take away the yardstick, and men stop measuring themselves by it. Men benefit greatly by not being constrained by this set of rules to keep them from being 'too girly'.

This is like feminism 101. I'm sure it's come up in the thread before. I'm sure it'll come up again. Other people have addressed counterarguments to this better than I have, but I wanted to at least drop this idea by here. We're allies, you guys, it just takes people stepping forward to go "you know what, you're right, these archaic gender standards are totally bullshit".

 

[Jack Action]

I'm just going to toss a radical feminist idea in here that I'm sure will bring approximately fifteen million people down upon my head screaming at the top of their lungs:

Okay, imagine a venn diagram. One part is "problems men have to deal with" along this thread's line. Another part is "problems feminism wishes to address".

Got it? Okay, good. Now let me tell you something gamechanging:

That venn diagram is just one circle. There is complete overlap.

When you go down to the root of so many of these problems, they're all about proving masculinity. They're all about doing that TO NOT BE FEMININE - and it's about the fear of being feminine. Why? Because being feminine is bad. That's what society teaches us. Therefore only the worst sort of man would be feminine, right? So men grow up with this huge burden, and that burden is lablled Don't Be Girly. It hurts them in school. It hurts them in their daily lives. It hurts their emotional development. It hurts their relationships with people. It even might hurt their careers. It's what isolates. It's what drives people to suicide. They think they've failed this standard of Don't Be Girly, or can't find a way out that's not Too Girly. I mean, for fuck's sake, it's a demonstrable thing that men don't go to the doctor when they need to because "toughing it out" is the "manly" thing to do! Never mind what that mindset does to somebody with depression - think about the guy having a heart attack who goes "no, I'm not going to the ER, I can walk this off because I'm not a sissy". Sissy. GIRLY.

At the root of all this is the fear of being girly.

So what happens when we get rid of this archaic standard that men and women must be polar opposites? What happens when we fight to make it clear that being girly is okay too, because girly doesn't mean weak?

We take away the yardstick, and men stop measuring themselves by it. Men benefit greatly by not being constrained by this set of rules to keep them from being 'too girly'.

This is like feminism 101. I'm sure it's come up in the thread before. I'm sure it'll come up again. Other people have addressed counterarguments to this better than I have, but I wanted to at least drop this idea by here. We're allies, you guys, it just takes people stepping forward to go "you know what, you're right, these archaic gender standards are totally bullshit".

From where I'm standing, the only thing feminism does for men's problems is say 'well you've only got problems because you try to be big and tough; stop that, and we'll get around to the one or two problems you've got that aren't related as soon as we're completely done eliminating every single problem women have'. Aka dismissing them entirely with a condescending 'it's your fault you've got problems' attitude.

Or ignore them outright, see the thing with US college attendance being 55% female. It was a problem when it was only 45% female, but it's not a problem when it's only 45% male?

Make up your minds, people.

Tl;dr I'm not buying the idea that feminism cares about men's problems. Feminism being a ridiculously broad category (to the point where the word is now almost meaningless without half a dozen adjectives tacked on), I'm sure you're going to point out that some feminists care about men's problems and actively work towards fixing them.

 

[Harpalyce]

I... actually am going to point out that some feminists care about men's problems and actively work towards fixing them, but I'm not really sure where I'm supposed to go off your post since you already know what's about to happen and you acknowledge feminism is a big category?

I'll toss out another radical idea, though - by fighting to make feminine=/=powerless and bad, all feminists are actually helping men by making 'feminine' things more accessible to them (even feminine things like, say, going to the doctor, or being in touch with one's own emotions, or taking care of their kids without special kudos).

All the feminists I know acknowledge that these things are swords that cut both ways, if that makes sense. It's just that it cuts women more than men, because men still get to be in power and are expected to be in power - that's part of the machismo thing - and women aren't. The snappy responses you may have seen are probably from people who have gotten fed up trying to explain this to men who think their problems are worse than women's when they demonstrably, well, aren't. (Again, this is feminism 101. I'm not going to hold your hand and gently direct you to google; you can look up your own statistics on how women get dicked over by the system.)

 

[piketheguy]

heres the thing, once you hit 30, NONE OF THIS SHIT MATTERS, any adult who lets this random bullshit get to them really should learn to let it go. The real problems male face? Prostate cancer. Thats a real thing you should worry about, what any other person on this planet thinks about you, does not fucking matter, so fuck em. For all you guys 29 and under, listen to the old geezer who remembers dial-up and when gatorade came in glass bottles, none of this social crap about men and women matter to anyone. The majority of the population of this world only care about making enough money to be comfortable and if their family is taken care of. Thats it.

Look up male isolation and suicide rates. Maybe you are one of the lucky ones who has not been caught up in this cycle.

Also, the Aussie concept of Sheds for men. A lot of interesting research in those areas.

yeah re-read what i wrote, when you engrosse yourself in the the opinions of others, surround yourself with people who tell you how you should be, and indulge anyone who tells you how you should change yourself to better fit in, Id withdraw and kill myself too. Because at that point i have surrendered my will to enjoy who I am to someone else.

I've watched guys withdraw from society (some who actually are much better for it) and I've had buddies end their own lives, and after watching good friends do that and after years of asking myself where I failed them, I realized something, it dosent matter, because at the end of the day, if someone chooses to end their life or refuses society there is shit fuck one I can do about it, a truly determined individual will find a way.

I am my own island, my decisions dictate the reality I enjoy, and if I choose its time for me to go and if i choose to withdraw from society, that is my decision, and if someone dosent think I havent thought out my decision and think they know what is better for me, they are insulting me as a human being.

p.s. all you fuckers (males specifically) are still puberty nuts till 25 anyway. If you cant look back on your teenage years and wonder to yourself -man, what the fuck was i thinking?- then sorry bro, you are still puberty nuts and the hormones still have you.

 

[AnthrSolidSnake]

First off, like a lot of guys, I have long hair. I take care of my hair. That's considered incredibly odd, even by my own parents. Yeah, I take maybe an hour total to get ready to go somewhere if I rush. That includes a shower, drying off, drying my hair, brushing it, straightening it, and putting on clothes.
Most people seem to be put off by the straightening part. I never understood why. I like my hair straight? Sure, its mostly straight naturally, but not that light, clean looking, soft straight that girls at my work claim to love so much.

 

[Anja Bech]

There are a lot of bs 'standards' that men are supposed to adhere to in western society, the most damaging of which I feel is not showing any kind vulnerability. This is one of those thing that just makes me wish I could somehow impose my view on the whole word through benevolent dictatorship. Why should a man not be allowed to show his emotions, to reach out for help if he needs it, to recognize when he needs it? It seriously hinders open and honest communication, and it stifles boys' means of expressing themselves. Yes, there are tons of things that men have to deal with, (I'm not even going to talk about women - another problem for another thread. Seriously people, on thing at a time, okay?) but this is the one I feel really shows the root of the issue. Men are apparently not allowed to be the carers. That makes me really sad. I want my boyfriend, my dad, my brother, my potential kid to be able to be people with emotional needs and instabilities without it making them into lesser men. Fuck that noise...

 

[Jack Action]

I... actually am going to point out that some feminists care about men's problems and actively work towards fixing them, but I'm not really sure where I'm supposed to go off your post since you already know what's about to happen and you acknowledge feminism is a big category?

I'll toss out another radical idea, though - by fighting to make feminine=/=powerless and bad, all feminists are actually helping men by making 'feminine' things more accessible to them (even feminine things like, say, going to the doctor, or being in touch with one's own emotions, or taking care of their kids without special kudos).

All the feminists I know acknowledge that these things are swords that cut both ways, if that makes sense. It's just that it cuts women more than men, because men still get to be in power and are expected to be in power - that's part of the machismo thing - and women aren't. The snappy responses you may have seen are probably from people who have gotten fed up trying to explain this to men who think their problems are worse than women's when they demonstrably, well, aren't. (Again, this is feminism 101. I'm not going to hold your hand and gently direct you to google; you can look up your own statistics on how women get dicked over by the system.)

Well, first, here's an opposite radical idea: we should fight the idea that being stoic and strong is bad and harmful (because stoicism does have its advantages, much like being emotional). Women would be better off if they sucked it up and kicked life in the nuts when it's mean to them, like men are expected to.

Bit ridiculous, isn't it?

Second, women being feminine hardly makes them powerless. Quite the opposite, since men are (generally) attracted to feminine women, this gives said women a significant amount of power over the men who are attracted to them, even if said men don't think with their dicks; being feminine, by itself, is not a bad thing, it's just utterly useless for men, in terms of power over others. With a notable exception for gay men who are attracted to feminine men, obviously.

Third, SOME problems women have are worse than SOME problem men have. On the flipside, SOME problems men have are worse than SOME problems women have. I do believe we can agree on this, yes? My problem is with the absolute "women have it worse", or its rarely encountered sister, "men have it worse".

Fourth, the point about feminism being a ridiculously broad category was that you could in theory say feminism is for anything, from plush koala bears to Mars missions.