PS3 Hacker Raised All the Legal Funds Needed to Beat Sony in a Weekend

[Macrobstar]

god damn it, stop ruining my platform!

Improving my platform

I hate hackers, can't they just leave gamers alone and go be super nerds somewhere else

 

[Arqus_Zed]

Bah, this is the kind of a guy I want to see get his own major company and then let some no-lifer hack all HIS products.
But that will probably never happen, so I just hope a dog bites him in the butt.

Having a balance between restrictions and freedoms is important - and I for one don't get the feeling Sony is raping me in the ass, so I'm gonna say "no" to the whole hacker thing.

Also:
"Rules do not exist to bind us, they exist so we may know our freedom"
- kudos to the guy who knows what I'm quoting.

 

[Arehexes]

I 100% agree with his assertion that when the property is bought and paid for, there is no "illegal" retooling. As long as the hacks are not used for illegal means, there really is no case.

But when you walk into your local GameStop/EBGames/Best Buy/JB Hi-Fi/Target, etc, you're not purchasing a "Build Your Own PlayStation Kit". You're purchasing a "PlayStation 3". A copyrighted piece of hardware. Whatever is put into that console is assembled by Sony. There are multiple notices in the packaging stating that the console is NOT to modified or tampered with IN ANY WAY. It is to be used the way it was intended to be used. By the manufacturer. I really don't see any real reason for Linux to be on a VIDEO GAME CONSOLE. It's not a PC. It's a game console. It plays Bluray movies and video games. Sony must have had a reason to remove Linux/Other OS capability, it's their prerogative, they built it. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if hackers and modders were the only ones using it. I buy my console to PLAY LEGAL COPIES OF VIDEO GAMES ON IT. Not blatantly abuse the manufacturer by tearing it apart and fucking with it. Whatever is inside that console was MADE BY THEM. What I OWN is the right to use it for its intended purpose.

Delusional "freedom warriors" like Mr. Geodude really aren't helping. I'll accept that he didn't cause whatever Modern Warfare 1 & 2 fiasco (I don't play them, I wouldn't know otherwise), but certainly fucked with their shit.

When you purchase an appliance, there are warranties and guidelines in place. You use it HOW IT WAS INTENDED TO BE USED. When you void warranty, well, that's your own stupidity. But when you're purposefully hacking into a system to uncover rootkey codes that unlock ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING... You're just asking for trouble.

So by your logic Sony would be totally within it's rights to remove Blu Ray functionality from the PS3 as well? Why would anyone want to watch movies on a PS3 it's a GAME system afterall? Hell you buy your game system to "PLAY LEGAL COPIES OF VIDEO GAMES ON IT" afterall so what does Blu Ray functionality matter. Just because you didn't buy a PS3 to run Linux doesn't mean other people didn't. Sony removed an advertised feature from their hardware and these folks just found a way to put it back on.

They wouldn't be able to remove Blue ray functionality because it was marketted with it and it states it is capabale of doing this on the box itself.

It doesn't say anywhere that the console is capable of using another OS and if it were marketted to you that way it was the retailer. Believe me I know.... I looked into it myself.

The Terms of Service even say that they can and wil add or remove functionality.

You know that thing that you always agree to but never actually read? Thats you giving up your rights without checking what they are!

Sony bragged about OtherOS in press releases about being about to have a office computer in your game system.

Yup, may well have...

I refer you again to the Terms of Service that you didn't read.

Again, not a marketted feature in any paraphernalia.

It is marketed if it's a press release for game sites brags about how your game console can be used as a home office computer. That's a form of marketing since gamers read that and it gives them a reason to buy it. I'm not defending sony nor geohot, but are in the wrong.

 

[RoBi3.0]

I hope he wins, personally. If you legally bought it the company who made it no longer has any right to control what is done with it.


It'd be like someone buying a new Ford F150 that would only tow Ford brand trailers, run on Ford approved gasolines, drive on Ford approved roads and trails, carry only Ford approved cargo and function only if the person who owns it is the only one in the truck, and if any of these conditions aren't met it jams the brakes on, kills the engine and won't move until the terms are satisfied.

Then, some guy comes along and tells them how to wire in a button that disables all the silly restrictions, thereby allowing them full use of their Ford truck as one would expect. Ford soon notices that people are bypassing the inane restrictions and, sensing a loss of money from sales of Ford-approved accsessories coming, sues the guy who told people how to get the use they want out of the truck they bought.

I highly doubt any of you would support Ford in that scenario, so why are you supporting Sony? They're doing the exact same thing by suing Geohot.

Jesus Christ can we move away from the physical property analogizes, their stupid. This is not about him and his physical property. He is not getting sued cause he painted his PS3 green or changed the color of his LED light or decided it made a better door stop them a console.

He is getting sued because he thought it was a good idea to start fucking around with Sony's software. Like it or not Software is in a realm completely different then physical property. This case is not as cut and dry as either side would like it to be.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

"I said nothing when they came for those "mixing tapes". I said nothing when they came for those who played their DVD's on their Ipod's, I said nothing when they came for those who "downloaded" the CD they bought to their computer. I said nothing when they came for home brew ,gray market last bastion of freedom for consumers. I could say nothing when they came for me for merely hearing a tune."

 

[IamGamer41]

You pay for it, you agree to the rules and to abide by them. Don't like it? Don't do it.

So you give someone money for a product not so you can own it, but so you can only do what they tell you to.I guess everyone is just renting their ps3 from sony.

 

[MysticToast]

I 100% agree with his assertion that when the property is bought and paid for, there is no "illegal" retooling. As long as the hacks are not used for illegal means, there really is no case.

But when you walk into your local GameStop/EBGames/Best Buy/JB Hi-Fi/Target, etc, you're not purchasing a "Build Your Own PlayStation Kit". You're purchasing a "PlayStation 3". A copyrighted piece of hardware. Whatever is put into that console is assembled by Sony. There are multiple notices in the packaging stating that the console is NOT to modified or tampered with IN ANY WAY. It is to be used the way it was intended to be used. By the manufacturer. I really don't see any real reason for Linux to be on a VIDEO GAME CONSOLE. It's not a PC. It's a game console. It plays Bluray movies and video games. Sony must have had a reason to remove Linux/Other OS capability, it's their prerogative, they built it. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if hackers and modders were the only ones using it. I buy my console to PLAY LEGAL COPIES OF VIDEO GAMES ON IT. Not blatantly abuse the manufacturer by tearing it apart and fucking with it. Whatever is inside that console was MADE BY THEM. What I OWN is the right to use it for its intended purpose.

Delusional "freedom warriors" like Mr. Geodude really aren't helping. I'll accept that he didn't cause whatever Modern Warfare 1 & 2 fiasco (I don't play them, I wouldn't know otherwise), but certainly fucked with their shit.

When you purchase an appliance, there are warranties and guidelines in place. You use it HOW IT WAS INTENDED TO BE USED. When you void warranty, well, that's your own stupidity. But when you're purposefully hacking into a system to uncover rootkey codes that unlock ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING... You're just asking for trouble.

So by your logic Sony would be totally within it's rights to remove Blu Ray functionality from the PS3 as well? Why would anyone want to watch movies on a PS3 it's a GAME system afterall? Hell you buy your game system to "PLAY LEGAL COPIES OF VIDEO GAMES ON IT" afterall so what does Blu Ray functionality matter. Just because you didn't buy a PS3 to run Linux doesn't mean other people didn't. Sony removed an advertised feature from their hardware and these folks just found a way to put it back on.

Just thought I'd point out that your blu-ray argument doesn't work because all ps3 games are made on and created for blu-ray disks.

 

[drakythe]

I hope he wins, it is our right to do what we want to the PS3 after we buy it, I remember one time when I was delivering Pizza, the people were playing Super Mario All stars on their PS3. They looked like they were having lots of fun, now they can't cause Sony are asshoes

If you buy a gun is it your right to do anything you want with it? Is it your right to do anything you want with a PC? No, you have to abide by the laws and rules. Simple as that.
All this talk condoning Sony is naive jibberish. Geohotz simply allowed pirating to occur on the PS3. That means developers and publishers lose out because some kid thinks it's his god-given right to do what he wants. Sorry, that's not how the world works.

If I want to fuck my gun (after I buy it) I will! If I want to take it apart or modify it, I will! If I want to take apart my PC or modify it in some way to make it better, I will!

Uhuh...And if you want to shoot someone with it or shoot it in public are you allowed to? Don't use inane examples.

No of course not, but that's WAY different

Cuz u say so? LAD
How about a mature, logical argument?

I buy a gun. I am a licensed, legal Citizen of the united states. The gun is legally mine, I passed a background check.

I decide to change the patented spring on said gun so the trigger is more responsive. I tell others how to do this. Is this illegal?

Someone takes my freely distributed information and uses it to help kill 6 people in the time he would normally have only been able to kill 4. Who is charged for murder?

This is WAY different because GeoHot did not take anyone's life away. He did not deal physical violence. A gun and a piece of software are, in fact, way different. How about we all focus on the issue at hand instead of making analogies (which all break down in the end anyway) and then arguing over them?

While I agree Sony has rights regarding their software, they wronged their customers with the removal of otherOS, a feature I was about to use myself before they took it out (I was just waiting for YellowDog Linux to update to the latest firmware when the removal update occured). I appreciate George's efforts and in this case, I think he is less wrong than Sony.

And for those of you who believe the PSN will go the way of the dinosaur because of this, lets look at some precedents.

CD ripping tools are freely available everyone. Yet the music industry is STILL making a profit.

The iPhone can be jail broken easily, yet the App store is still making Apple money.

Hacks for the Xbox360 are many and abundant, but MS still makes money.

PS2 emulators have existed for YEARS, but the console just hit another landmark for number of units sold.

This is NOT the end of the world for the PS3, Sony should instead embrace the change, let the OtherOS feature be re-implemented and work with developers to find a better solution that suing people into the ground.

 

[jedizero]

Oh no, that means that Sony will actually have to listen to their customers and see what they want, and possibly even add features instead of removing them?

Gasp, shock, and horror.

Hey, I wonder if there's a hack that gives back PS2 capability for the PS3 slims, I'd get it if there was. I've got a whole library of PS2 games that I'd love to play, but then I don't have wireless controllers, letting me play from my favorite recliner.

You mean that if someone adds a hack, Sony could make it obsolete if they added a similar capability to their system? Thereby giving them a reason to update and not simply hack pieces of their system off whenever they feel like it?

You mean that I'll actually *own* my own console? Instead of just owning a box, and nothing inside of it?

So basically this gives Sony a reason to UPGRADE their system instead of randomly chopping functions off that were the reason we first GOT a PS3.

I regret every day I bought a PS3 Slim instead of going to gamestop and just buying an older model. I can't run half my games on my new system, instead I'm expected to go out, get a PS2, and be fucking happy that they didn't chop PS1 compatibility.

Seriously.
What the hell.

 

[drakythe]

Just thought I'd point out that your blu-ray argument doesn't work because all ps3 games are made on and created for blu-ray disks.

Movie firmware playback is not tied to game playback. I've had to update my PS3 quite a few times in order to watch a movie, right after playing a game. They could remove one without damaging the other. And according to those who support Sony's current case, it is their legal right.

Remember, George is being sued by Sony, not charged by the police or FBI.

 

[dragontiers]

I hate to break this to you but PS3 games would be 'unpiratable' if it wasn't for Geohotz & co. Say what you want but when it comes to it, I think it's a shitty thing he did that just allows publishers and developers to not receive their hard earned money. If you think that is fair, then please tell me how it is.

I really don't think the PS3 would be "unpiratable" without GeoHotz intervention. The people who want to pirate games find their own workarounds, and while the one he published may have made it easier on pirates, it is not going to cause people who weren't going to pirate to start, nor if he hadn't published it would it have stopped people who wanted to pirate from doing it.
I agree, it is terrible that publishers and developers loose out on money because of pirates. However, it is just as bad in my mind that creative people who like to modify items they have purchased, for their own use, without reselling it or in any way taking away from the company that made it, are getting sued. If I had the technical expertise, you bet your bottom dollar I would mod my ps3, along with all my other systems, into an awesome looking game box that I can run those games on. For example, I think the nintoaster [http://www.google.com/#q=nintoaster&hl=en&safe=off&prmd=ivnsfd&source=univ&tbs=vid:1&tbo=u&sa=X&ei=y9xiTbiED4H88AbWqvHCDA&sqi=2&ved=0CDQQqwQ&bav=on.1,or.&fp=5554087cfc08a05] is one of the most amazing things ever. If Sony wins their case, things like this could also become illegal. And that is why I support GeoHotz.

You are wrong. Pirates hadn't found a way around the PS3 for years. If it wasn't for his intervention the PS3 would have no pirated games on it. He seemed to think it was his god given place to allow homebrewing on the PS3 which would in turn allow pirating. The guy is just some immature computer geek with no sense of responsibility.

I think this is the point in the conversation where we will have to agree to disagree. I believe pirates may have gained an advantage because of what he did, but that they would have been able to work things out on their own without his intervention, if they hadn't already. Likewise, I also don't believe that my giving you information makes me responsible, legally or morally, if you choose to abuse the information and use it in a way I had not intended. Obviously you believe differently, and I don't believe either of us is going to convince the other.

So to summarise your argument is based on unfounded beliefs. Right...
Fact is, and you can't argue with facts, pirates hadn't found a way before Geohotz decided to get in the mix.
If you really think that you have no responsibility to act in a responsible manner, you must be the kind of guy that hands his friends their car keys even when they are drunk. Your not in the car so who cares right? -.-

No, but I am the kind of guy who would teach my friend how to drive, then not feel responsible if they choose to drink and drive (although I would feel bad they made a poor choice that could get themselves or someone else hurt). I don't appreciate the fact you are attempting to slander my position because you don't agree with me. Please refrain from such personal attacks.

 

[SIXVI06-M]

I think Microsoft can exploit this wonderful PR faux pas that Sony has made - simply, if Microsoft allowed people to do what Sony does not allow, then more power and sales to Microsoft, and of course an even greater market saturation of Microsoft product ownership due to the greater appeal of freedom on their products.

I hope they do, since Microroft has a tendency to make sound PR decisions when an issue could go either way.

It's pretty poor already that Sony can't think of a positive approach... sigh, it's always the suing. Typical.

 

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

I hope he wins, it is our right to do what we want to the PS3 after we buy it, I remember one time when I was delivering Pizza, the people were playing Super Mario All stars on their PS3. They looked like they were having lots of fun, now they can't cause Sony are asshoes

If you buy a gun is it your right to do anything you want with it? Is it your right to do anything you want with a PC? No, you have to abide by the laws and rules. Simple as that.
All this talk condoning Sony is naive jibberish. Geohotz simply allowed pirating to occur on the PS3. That means developers and publishers lose out because some kid thinks it's his god-given right to do what he wants. Sorry, that's not how the world works.

If I want to fuck my gun (after I buy it) I will! If I want to take it apart or modify it, I will! If I want to take apart my PC or modify it in some way to make it better, I will!

Uhuh...And if you want to shoot someone with it or shoot it in public are you allowed to? Don't use inane examples.

No of course not, but that's WAY different

Cuz u say so? LAD
How about a mature, logical argument?

You claim maturity with such conviction, as though you didn't just equate hacking a console with murder.

Sony have been adopting dubious practices in the name of self-defense for years, no amount of disingenuous, gun-slinging metaphors change that.

I've never heard of this fellow, but I hope he wins. The idea that legality-of-practice is purchasable...is disgusting. Removing features from something that millions have bought is a shitty thing to do, whether there are hints in that long disclaimer(that very literally noone reads)that they might do so.

I'm not prepared to accept this definition of ownership.

 

[jedizero]

I'm sorry, but I'm still having trouble seeing a true downside to this.
Yes, Piracy will happen, but Piracy is going on without this legal battle, I fail to see how it will rise if this guy wins.

The way Sony can keep their PS3s unmodified if they lose this case?

Make it more appealing to keep it from being modified in anyway.
Someone comes out with a 'hack' (Which is being misused in this case. The system files are being modified, there's not any 'hacking' going on really, aside from breaking some codes.) That does something, Sony notices that a lot of people like it, and want to use it.

They then come out with something similar, that does not require said 'hack'.

Yeah, they won't be able to do *everything*, but it'd sure as hell give them a reason to stop trying to hold your system hostage.

 

[Doctor Glocktor]

The guy shouldn't have leaked the codes, but its his PS3 and he has the right to do whatever the Hell he wants with it, no exceptions.