PS3 Hacker Raised All the Legal Funds Needed to Beat Sony in a Weekend

[TheGuiggleMonster]

You pay for it, you agree to the rules and to abide by them. Don't like it? Don't do it.

There are no rules that say that you aren't allowed to hack something you own in every legal way.

 

[RoBi3.0]

Yes but they won't remove Blu-ray ( while they could and it would be within their rights) they are making money off it, and i'm sure they have contracts with netflix and i believe i haeard something about Hulu singing with them, not to mention all Ps3 games are prinited on blu ray disc.

Exactly! Way to completely misread, Mr. Xanthious~! Obviously Bluray's are what the PS3 RUNS. It's a BLURAY DRIVE, for Christ's sake! Of course I'll also watch Bluray movies on it! That's part of its "intended purpose"! They'd be absolute fuckheads to remove the ONE THING that makes the product.. Y'know.. Function properly.

Linux however, is a third-party functionality that can be added or removed, depending on Sony's decision on the matter. Much like Backwards Compatibility for PS2 games! I may not like the fact that it isn't in current PS3 Slim's, but that's not my decision to make. It did suddenly (and rather drastically, might I add) drop the price of the console. Plus, the PS2 is still being sold in truckloads. They had enough reason to say "This isn't a requirement at this time".

The average, typical gamer will not use Linux on a console that plays HD movies and games. It's JUST like complaining about the 360 dashboard being "updated" from the old classic layout to the new layout with Avatars. Microsoft changed it, that's how the console runs. Deal with it.

It's irrelevant, it was an advertised feature that was removed. Just because the majority of consumers didn't buy it for that reason doesn't mean that there weren't people who did and Sony removed that feature. Because it may not have been a feature you ever used or even the majority of people will ever use doesn't matter. The removal of the "Other O/S" feature has already been found to be unlawful in some courts of law in fact.

Sony wants to believe that they, not you, own the PS3 sitting in your house. You seem fine with that and I truly feel sorry for you. The rest of us, who don't believe that it's ok to trample over everyone's consumer rights in the name of combating "piracy", tend to believe that we own our PS3s and will do what what we like with OUR property. When and IF we should break the law then they have can take legal recourse but not before.

Norway is hardly the United States where Geohot is being sued, those courts of law is hardly relevant to this case.

I believe that all this boils down to Geohot releasing their rootkey on to the internet. If he hadn't done something so monumentally stupid he probably wouldn't be having legal trouble.

If Sony was suing this guy for turning his PS3 is of a multi-function George Foreman grill/ gaming console then I would think it was stupid, but he gave the internet the keys to PS3 kingdom. Should he be responsible for every act of piracy that comes for that? Probably not but something has to happen to let hacker know not to do stupid shit like that.

This is not about Sony not wanting you to turn your Ps3 into a toaster, it them wanting to protect their ability to sale software for their console.

 

[Booze Zombie]

It's worth fighting for your freedom as a consumer, in my opinion.
Power to him.

 

[Danpascooch]

Go Geohot! Whatever happened to the concept of actually OWNING the thing you bought!?

Plus he went to the same college as me.

 

[Danpascooch]

Yes but they won't remove Blu-ray ( while they could and it would be within their rights) they are making money off it, and i'm sure they have contracts with netflix and i believe i haeard something about Hulu singing with them, not to mention all Ps3 games are prinited on blu ray disc.

Exactly! Way to completely misread, Mr. Xanthious~! Obviously Bluray's are what the PS3 RUNS. It's a BLURAY DRIVE, for Christ's sake! Of course I'll also watch Bluray movies on it! That's part of its "intended purpose"! They'd be absolute fuckheads to remove the ONE THING that makes the product.. Y'know.. Function properly.

Linux however, is a third-party functionality that can be added or removed, depending on Sony's decision on the matter. Much like Backwards Compatibility for PS2 games! I may not like the fact that it isn't in current PS3 Slim's, but that's not my decision to make. It did suddenly (and rather drastically, might I add) drop the price of the console. Plus, the PS2 is still being sold in truckloads. They had enough reason to say "This isn't a requirement at this time".

The average, typical gamer will not use Linux on a console that plays HD movies and games. It's JUST like complaining about the 360 dashboard being "updated" from the old classic layout to the new layout with Avatars. Microsoft changed it, that's how the console runs. Deal with it.

It's irrelevant, it was an advertised feature that was removed. Just because the majority of consumers didn't buy it for that reason doesn't mean that there weren't people who did and Sony removed that feature. Because it may not have been a feature you ever used or even the majority of people will ever use doesn't matter. The removal of the "Other O/S" feature has already been found to be unlawful in some courts of law in fact.

Sony wants to believe that they, not you, own the PS3 sitting in your house. You seem fine with that and I truly feel sorry for you. The rest of us, who don't believe that it's ok to trample over everyone's consumer rights in the name of combating "piracy", tend to believe that we own our PS3s and will do what what we like with OUR property. When and IF we should break the law then they have can take legal recourse but not before.

Norway is hardly the United States where Geohot is being sued, those courts of law is hardly relevant to this case.

I believe that all this boils down to Geohot releasing their rootkey on to the internet. If he hadn't done something so monumentally stupid he probably wouldn't be having legal trouble.

If Sony was suing this guy for turning his PS3 is of a multi-function George Foreman grill/ gaming console then I would think it was stupid, but he gave the internet the keys to PS3 kingdom. Should he be responsible for every act of piracy that comes for that? Probably not but something has to happen to let hacker know not to do stupid shit like that.

This is not about Sony not wanting you to turn your Ps3 into a toaster, it them wanting to protect their ability to sale software for their console.

He should have every right to hack linux onto the console he owns, if he has to distribute a key that could potentially allow piracy in order to do that, then it's Sony's fault for making a security system in which to open the doors for Linux means opening the doors for piracy.

 

[CptCamoPants]

You don't RENT a PS3 you BUY one. Hence it's YOUR property. Sony has absolutely no legal right to tell you what you can and can't do with your property.
Edit: If Sony wins then I'm going to start selling toasters and putting notices on it that you cannot use it for anything other than pouring melted butter into it. If someone tries to put bread in them then I'LL SUE THEM FOR ALL THEIR WORTH

 

[Yoh3333]

i don't know all that much about hacking and all, but from what i can gather Geo is not 100% correct imo.

I love sony and the PS3 and don't like people who "hack" the online services. (i also hated boosters in MW2 and loved eradicateing them ) but i do also agree that it is his and he should be allowed to do what he wants. if he wants to break the system to his dreams then okay, where i do not agree with what he did was to publish the codes.

One thing is doing it yourself and claiming you will not use it for online-hacking and such. It's completely different once you give the codes to people he cannot be accountable for. they can maybe use what geo did and go from there to online games.

(now i don't know much about how hacks work, but this is just my opinion from what i could gather)

 

[Quiet Stranger]

I hope he wins, it is our right to do what we want to the PS3 after we buy it, I remember one time when I was delivering Pizza, the people were playing Super Mario All stars on their PS3. They looked like they were having lots of fun, now they can't cause Sony are asshoes

If you buy a gun is it your right to do anything you want with it? Is it your right to do anything you want with a PC? No, you have to abide by the laws and rules. Simple as that.
All this talk condoning Sony is naive jibberish. Geohotz simply allowed pirating to occur on the PS3. That means developers and publishers lose out because some kid thinks it's his god-given right to do what he wants. Sorry, that's not how the world works.

If I want to fuck my gun (after I buy it) I will! If I want to take it apart or modify it, I will! If I want to take apart my PC or modify it in some way to make it better, I will!

Uhuh...And if you want to shoot someone with it or shoot it in public are you allowed to? Don't use inane examples.

No of course not, but that's WAY different

 

[Rancid0ffspring]

I 100% agree with his assertion that when the property is bought and paid for, there is no "illegal" retooling. As long as the hacks are not used for illegal means, there really is no case.

But when you walk into your local GameStop/EBGames/Best Buy/JB Hi-Fi/Target, etc, you're not purchasing a "Build Your Own PlayStation Kit". You're purchasing a "PlayStation 3". A copyrighted piece of hardware. Whatever is put into that console is assembled by Sony. There are multiple notices in the packaging stating that the console is NOT to modified or tampered with IN ANY WAY. It is to be used the way it was intended to be used. By the manufacturer. I really don't see any real reason for Linux to be on a VIDEO GAME CONSOLE. It's not a PC. It's a game console. It plays Bluray movies and video games. Sony must have had a reason to remove Linux/Other OS capability, it's their prerogative, they built it. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if hackers and modders were the only ones using it. I buy my console to PLAY LEGAL COPIES OF VIDEO GAMES ON IT. Not blatantly abuse the manufacturer by tearing it apart and fucking with it. Whatever is inside that console was MADE BY THEM. What I OWN is the right to use it for its intended purpose.

Delusional "freedom warriors" like Mr. Geodude really aren't helping. I'll accept that he didn't cause whatever Modern Warfare 1 & 2 fiasco (I don't play them, I wouldn't know otherwise), but certainly fucked with their shit.

When you purchase an appliance, there are warranties and guidelines in place. You use it HOW IT WAS INTENDED TO BE USED. When you void warranty, well, that's your own stupidity. But when you're purposefully hacking into a system to uncover rootkey codes that unlock ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING... You're just asking for trouble.

So by your logic Sony would be totally within it's rights to remove Blu Ray functionality from the PS3 as well? Why would anyone want to watch movies on a PS3 it's a GAME system afterall? Hell you buy your game system to "PLAY LEGAL COPIES OF VIDEO GAMES ON IT" afterall so what does Blu Ray functionality matter. Just because you didn't buy a PS3 to run Linux doesn't mean other people didn't. Sony removed an advertised feature from their hardware and these folks just found a way to put it back on.

They wouldn't be able to remove Blue ray functionality because it was marketted with it and it states it is capabale of doing this on the box itself.

It doesn't say anywhere that the console is capable of using another OS and if it were marketted to you that way it was the retailer. Believe me I know.... I looked into it myself.

The Terms of Service even say that they can and wil add or remove functionality.

You know that thing that you always agree to but never actually read? Thats you giving up your rights without checking what they are!

 

[Arehexes]

I 100% agree with his assertion that when the property is bought and paid for, there is no "illegal" retooling. As long as the hacks are not used for illegal means, there really is no case.

But when you walk into your local GameStop/EBGames/Best Buy/JB Hi-Fi/Target, etc, you're not purchasing a "Build Your Own PlayStation Kit". You're purchasing a "PlayStation 3". A copyrighted piece of hardware. Whatever is put into that console is assembled by Sony. There are multiple notices in the packaging stating that the console is NOT to modified or tampered with IN ANY WAY. It is to be used the way it was intended to be used. By the manufacturer. I really don't see any real reason for Linux to be on a VIDEO GAME CONSOLE. It's not a PC. It's a game console. It plays Bluray movies and video games. Sony must have had a reason to remove Linux/Other OS capability, it's their prerogative, they built it. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if hackers and modders were the only ones using it. I buy my console to PLAY LEGAL COPIES OF VIDEO GAMES ON IT. Not blatantly abuse the manufacturer by tearing it apart and fucking with it. Whatever is inside that console was MADE BY THEM. What I OWN is the right to use it for its intended purpose.

Delusional "freedom warriors" like Mr. Geodude really aren't helping. I'll accept that he didn't cause whatever Modern Warfare 1 & 2 fiasco (I don't play them, I wouldn't know otherwise), but certainly fucked with their shit.

When you purchase an appliance, there are warranties and guidelines in place. You use it HOW IT WAS INTENDED TO BE USED. When you void warranty, well, that's your own stupidity. But when you're purposefully hacking into a system to uncover rootkey codes that unlock ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING... You're just asking for trouble.

So by your logic Sony would be totally within it's rights to remove Blu Ray functionality from the PS3 as well? Why would anyone want to watch movies on a PS3 it's a GAME system afterall? Hell you buy your game system to "PLAY LEGAL COPIES OF VIDEO GAMES ON IT" afterall so what does Blu Ray functionality matter. Just because you didn't buy a PS3 to run Linux doesn't mean other people didn't. Sony removed an advertised feature from their hardware and these folks just found a way to put it back on.

They wouldn't be able to remove Blue ray functionality because it was marketted with it and it states it is capabale of doing this on the box itself.

It doesn't say anywhere that the console is capable of using another OS and if it were marketted to you that way it was the retailer. Believe me I know.... I looked into it myself.

The Terms of Service even say that they can and wil add or remove functionality.

You know that thing that you always agree to but never actually read? Thats you giving up your rights without checking what they are!

Sony bragged about OtherOS in press releases about being about to have a office computer in your game system.

 

[killamanhunter]

If I don't have to deal with them then I don't really care. I just worry about how I'm going to have to deal with PSN banning everyone for not having legitimate hardware on their system or just going offline with Sony going, "alright you guys want to hack? Have fun without PSN."

 

[dragontiers]

I hate to break this to you but PS3 games would be 'unpiratable' if it wasn't for Geohotz & co. Say what you want but when it comes to it, I think it's a shitty thing he did that just allows publishers and developers to not receive their hard earned money. If you think that is fair, then please tell me how it is.

I really don't think the PS3 would be "unpiratable" without GeoHotz intervention. The people who want to pirate games find their own workarounds, and while the one he published may have made it easier on pirates, it is not going to cause people who weren't going to pirate to start, nor if he hadn't published it would it have stopped people who wanted to pirate from doing it.
I agree, it is terrible that publishers and developers loose out on money because of pirates. However, it is just as bad in my mind that creative people who like to modify items they have purchased, for their own use, without reselling it or in any way taking away from the company that made it, are getting sued. If I had the technical expertise, you bet your bottom dollar I would mod my ps3, along with all my other systems, into an awesome looking game box that I can run those games on. For example, I think the nintoaster [http://www.google.com/#q=nintoaster&hl=en&safe=off&prmd=ivnsfd&source=univ&tbs=vid:1&tbo=u&sa=X&ei=y9xiTbiED4H88AbWqvHCDA&sqi=2&ved=0CDQQqwQ&bav=on.1,or.&fp=5554087cfc08a05] is one of the most amazing things ever. If Sony wins their case, things like this could also become illegal. And that is why I support GeoHotz.

You are wrong. Pirates hadn't found a way around the PS3 for years. If it wasn't for his intervention the PS3 would have no pirated games on it. He seemed to think it was his god given place to allow homebrewing on the PS3 which would in turn allow pirating. The guy is just some immature computer geek with no sense of responsibility.

I think this is the point in the conversation where we will have to agree to disagree. I believe pirates may have gained an advantage because of what he did, but that they would have been able to work things out on their own without his intervention, if they hadn't already. Likewise, I also don't believe that my giving you information makes me responsible, legally or morally, if you choose to abuse the information and use it in a way I had not intended. Obviously you believe differently, and I don't believe either of us is going to convince the other.

 

[Nachtmahr]

I will be rooting for Sony. And I am appalled that so many think that GeoHot is in the right.

 

[Rancid0ffspring]

Yes but they won't remove Blu-ray ( while they could and it would be within their rights) they are making money off it, and i'm sure they have contracts with netflix and i believe i haeard something about Hulu singing with them, not to mention all Ps3 games are prinited on blu ray disc.

Exactly! Way to completely misread, Mr. Xanthious~! Obviously Bluray's are what the PS3 RUNS. It's a BLURAY DRIVE, for Christ's sake! Of course I'll also watch Bluray movies on it! That's part of its "intended purpose"! They'd be absolute fuckheads to remove the ONE THING that makes the product.. Y'know.. Function properly.

Linux however, is a third-party functionality that can be added or removed, depending on Sony's decision on the matter. Much like Backwards Compatibility for PS2 games! I may not like the fact that it isn't in current PS3 Slim's, but that's not my decision to make. It did suddenly (and rather drastically, might I add) drop the price of the console. Plus, the PS2 is still being sold in truckloads. They had enough reason to say "This isn't a requirement at this time".

The average, typical gamer will not use Linux on a console that plays HD movies and games. It's JUST like complaining about the 360 dashboard being "updated" from the old classic layout to the new layout with Avatars. Microsoft changed it, that's how the console runs. Deal with it.

It's irrelevant, it was an advertised feature that was removed. Just because the majority of consumers didn't buy it for that reason doesn't mean that there weren't people who did and Sony removed that feature. Because it may not have been a feature you ever used or even the majority of people will ever use doesn't matter. The removal of the "Other O/S" feature has already been found to be unlawful in some courts of law in fact.

Sony wants to believe that they, not you, own the PS3 sitting in your house. You seem fine with that and I truly feel sorry for you. The rest of us, who don't believe that it's ok to trample over everyone's consumer rights in the name of combating "piracy", tend to believe that we own our PS3s and will do what what we like with OUR property. When and IF we should break the law then they have can take legal recourse but not before.

Seriously dude. It really wasn't advertised by Sony that you could use another OS. There was that whole legal case with Amazon because they said it could use another OS. Some retailers marketted it. Thats all

Check any box. Even the original 60GB you will find absolutely no mention of Other OS.

 

[Rancid0ffspring]

I 100% agree with his assertion that when the property is bought and paid for, there is no "illegal" retooling. As long as the hacks are not used for illegal means, there really is no case.

But when you walk into your local GameStop/EBGames/Best Buy/JB Hi-Fi/Target, etc, you're not purchasing a "Build Your Own PlayStation Kit". You're purchasing a "PlayStation 3". A copyrighted piece of hardware. Whatever is put into that console is assembled by Sony. There are multiple notices in the packaging stating that the console is NOT to modified or tampered with IN ANY WAY. It is to be used the way it was intended to be used. By the manufacturer. I really don't see any real reason for Linux to be on a VIDEO GAME CONSOLE. It's not a PC. It's a game console. It plays Bluray movies and video games. Sony must have had a reason to remove Linux/Other OS capability, it's their prerogative, they built it. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if hackers and modders were the only ones using it. I buy my console to PLAY LEGAL COPIES OF VIDEO GAMES ON IT. Not blatantly abuse the manufacturer by tearing it apart and fucking with it. Whatever is inside that console was MADE BY THEM. What I OWN is the right to use it for its intended purpose.

Delusional "freedom warriors" like Mr. Geodude really aren't helping. I'll accept that he didn't cause whatever Modern Warfare 1 & 2 fiasco (I don't play them, I wouldn't know otherwise), but certainly fucked with their shit.

When you purchase an appliance, there are warranties and guidelines in place. You use it HOW IT WAS INTENDED TO BE USED. When you void warranty, well, that's your own stupidity. But when you're purposefully hacking into a system to uncover rootkey codes that unlock ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING... You're just asking for trouble.

So by your logic Sony would be totally within it's rights to remove Blu Ray functionality from the PS3 as well? Why would anyone want to watch movies on a PS3 it's a GAME system afterall? Hell you buy your game system to "PLAY LEGAL COPIES OF VIDEO GAMES ON IT" afterall so what does Blu Ray functionality matter. Just because you didn't buy a PS3 to run Linux doesn't mean other people didn't. Sony removed an advertised feature from their hardware and these folks just found a way to put it back on.

They wouldn't be able to remove Blue ray functionality because it was marketted with it and it states it is capabale of doing this on the box itself.

It doesn't say anywhere that the console is capable of using another OS and if it were marketted to you that way it was the retailer. Believe me I know.... I looked into it myself.

The Terms of Service even say that they can and wil add or remove functionality.

You know that thing that you always agree to but never actually read? Thats you giving up your rights without checking what they are!

Sony bragged about OtherOS in press releases about being about to have a office computer in your game system.

Yup, may well have...

I refer you again to the Terms of Service that you didn't read.

Again, not a marketted feature in any paraphernalia.

 

[xPixelatedx]

You know it is really sad that our system of law and justice is entirely based on how much money you have. Oh don't get me wrong, I am glad he got the money he needed to mount a defense, but what if he couldn't? That isn't justice...

 

[badmunky64]

i wish them luck

 

[Misho-]

"Sony wants to believe that they, not you, own the PS3 sitting in your house. You seem fine with that and I truly feel sorry for you. The rest of us, who don't believe that it's ok to trample over everyone's consumer rights in the name of combating "piracy", tend to believe that we own our PS3s and will do what what we like with OUR property. When and IF we should break the law then they have can take legal recourse but not before."

I don't think (I could be mistaken of course since I'm not inside the CEO's mind to actaully prove this), but I don't think Playstation say they own the PS3 sitting at your house. They just own the programing/root key and other fuctionalities that are Sony's exclusive intellectual property. Maybe GeoHotz is right to buy it/break it/hack it to discover the way it works... But why oh why distribute his findings (or simply posting them, take your pick) online?

That and his cocky attitude (want better security? hire me... Urgh) really don't help me like him at all...

 

[Arcanist]

It's refreshing to see the gaming community finally call Sony on their bullshit bluff.

Go GEOHot!