PS3 Mass Effect 2 Workaround Revealed, Patch in the Works

[Kingsnake661]

Is it currently FIXED? I don't recall getting a patch last night, though i did update my PS3 system software.. that wasn't the fix was it? I don't play my PS3 much at all... like, this is the first game since Infamus... yeah.. the PS3 was a gift from my kid brother and sister, a thank you for all my years of buying them games cause i was the oldest and had the first "real" job. It was thoughful for sure, I kind of wish i played it more... LOL

And about these Ultra-cool enhanced graphics... eh, I can't tell if your serious or being sarcastic... I played ME2 first on the PC, and even now it looks light years better and smoother then the PS3 version. (ok, lightyears is a bit much, but the PC does look better, dispite it being on the old engine for the game.)

But i'm having fun with it so far. I mean sure, my aim sucks with a controller... the graphics aren't as sharp... and the load time sucks... eh.. ahm... It's ah, nice to get to play the game from my Lazy Boy instead of my computer chair... YEAH, that's it! I kid I kid...(well, i kind of kid... heh.)

The issue should be fixed by now, since the patch was to be released this friday (today). It sucks for a few gamers that this happened in the first place, but at least Bioware took action quickly.

As for the ultra-cool enhanced graphics bit, i was being sarcastic, since the ME3 engine upgrade isnt that obvious...and at the same time i was just teasing xbox60 fanboys who say stuff like "you could DL the patch...or buy an xbox", since ps3 owners get the slightly enhanced graphics (and the DLC, that´s a nice bonus)and they dont.

Of course the pc graphics are potentially way better than in the console versions if you have the right hardware. You wont get any argument from me on that
As for the aiming...once you get the hang of it, it´s not bad.

Hehe. It's not the PS3's fault *I* can't aim well with a controller anymore. I lost my joystick mojo years ago. A decade of online MMO's and MMORPG's will do that to you. *shrug* After about a week of playing, my aim isn't god awlful as it was on day one, when i couldn't hit crap RIGHT IN FROUNT OF ME.... *facepalms with shame* Now, i can make short work of mobs that are standing still outside of cover... yeah, i eat them alive now... >.> Getting a headshot on a running target isn't happening like i can do on the PC.. but hey, baby steps right? LOL

 

[Kingsnake661]

A member of the PC Master Race causing an XBox vs PS3 flame war, to weaken his adversaries before the impending PC vs console war? You, Sir, are a true saboteur.

Oh please, PC users a master race? HA!

No, the true master race is those of us who own all the consoles and a gaming PC. Those of us who play on a Wii, PS3, 360, PC, DS, PSP, and anything/everything else. Those of us who play games like Cooking Mama and Warioware and in the next hour play Halo, Ratchet and Clank, Fable, Mass Effect, Crysis, The Witcher, and any other game from any other genre.

WE ARE THE TRUE MASTER RACE! BOW BEFORE OUR GLORY!!
...

What were we talking about again?

No, Sir, you're delusional.

You spend your life updating your PC's hardware and DirectX, fixing the RROD [http://www.cracked.com/blog/how-not-to-deal-with-the-red-ring-of-death/] (again) on your XBox, getting ripped off by buying overpriced titles on the PSN and playing Nintendo games at an advanced age at the expense of being called a child molester.[footnote]Not my opinion - its Robert Brockway's. And you better not mess with him until and unless you want him to send you back home crying like a little girl.[/footnote]

You, Sir, are no Master Race. You're a slave to the Machine!

[sub]As for me, only the PC has manged to make me its *****.[/sub]

I'm one of them life long slaves to the machine... i admit it... though the last few years have seen me play almost none of the next gen consuals i own... I tend to favor PC gaing greatly, though i do dabble still since i have the systems. (Got them on launch day, more out of habbit then anything, except the PS3, which i refused to pay for, and my brother ans sister pulled together to get me, god bless them. Good kids.)

But, yeah, each platform has it's own... issues... i think my most awarked story involves me doing my kid sister a favor and picking up a wii game for her she'd been dieing to play... Baby Sittin...Momma... *facepalm* Which, so happened, was relased on, or very near the same day call of duty back opts was...

So yeah.. i'm in my local GS... picking up baby sitting momma... in a line of dudes getting black opts... Guy at the counter is like, "black ops??" Ah... eh... No... ahm... Baby..sitting..*sigh* mamma?? FOR MY SISTER... MY BABY SISTER.. i turn to point to her and she's off looking at game boy titles while i pay... !@#$!~@#... (no one can accuse me of being a bad big brother...)

....


Yeah... I was a cool hardcore gamer... years and year ago.. really... *facepalm of shame again*

 

[faspxina]

I'm glad this got sorted out, it must have been super annoying to lose a save i you'd been playing or so long...

On a side note, I still don't get why people say "waiting for Mass Effect on the PS3". I don't think any PS3 owners were going "I'm going to wait for its inevitable release on PS3". It was a pretty big surprise when they announced it. I think I anyone REALLY wanted it, they'd have bought an XBox.

Actually, considering so many franchises becoming multi-platform, I was kind of expecting it to come out on the ps3, if not Mass Effect 2, then Mas Effect 3.

OT: The OP's last sentence was so funny *wink* and intelligent! *wink*

 

[RA92]

I'm one of them life long slaves to the machine... i admit it... though the last few years have seen me play almost none of the next gen consuals i own... I tend to favor PC gaing greatly, though i do dabble still since i have the systems. (Got them on launch day, more out of habbit then anything, except the PS3, which i refused to pay for, and my brother ans sister pulled together to get me, god bless them. Good kids.)

But, yeah, each platform has it's own... issues... i think my most awarked story involves me doing my kid sister a favor and picking up a wii game for her she'd been dieing to play... Baby Sittin...Momma... *facepalm* Which, so happened, was relased on, or very near the same day call of duty back opts was...

So yeah.. i'm in my local GS... picking up baby sitting momma... in a line of dudes getting black opts... Guy at the counter is like, "black ops??" Ah... eh... No... ahm... Baby..sitting..*sigh* mamma?? FOR MY SISTER... MY BABY SISTER.. i turn to point to her and she's off looking at game boy titles while i pay... !@#$!~@#... (no one can accuse me of being a bad big brother...)

....


Yeah... I was a cool hardcore gamer... years and year ago.. really... *facepalm of shame again*

Awww, man... why wasn't I there? I would have pelted you with rebukes and laughed at you all the way back to your home! And continue with my shenanigans while having dinner with your family.

I kid, I kid... it's cool of you doing stuff for your siblings (I know I never would).

[sub]Anyways, how was Baby Sitting Mamma? XD[/sub]

 

[Exort]

These are reported bugs, but are these bugs that were experienced by a big number of people? The Dragon Age Wikia registers everything, even if the bug is experienced by 5 people alone. I can probably add to that list, you know why? PC gaming. Everyone has a different machine, and hardware and software differences is the biggest bug and glitch creator in games. Because it is impossible for them to test all kinds of hardware combos. Also, if it didnt make the news, im gonna guess it didnt bother people much? I do remember 2 or 3 glitches and errors that were major, but apart from tht....most of these ive never heard of.

A lot of those are universal bugs (even on consoles). They are cause by not enough tiggers. I'm blaming consoles, because the low RAM, and they want to save money by using the same engine. (example Agi doesn't work on the consoles, which is quite serious because one of the three main attri is completely useless.)

and some is caused by Bioware's fault like the Silverrite mine, there is a chance that your item will disappear. It is caused DLC item id and awaking item id conflict.

anyways, those bug is popular enough that a lot of bug-fix mod is published.

By the way, only commonly reported major bug is on that page. If only a hand full of people report it is listed under that page, and often says something alone the line of "some user reported ......", and minor bug (easy get around or doesn't cause seriously damage) is list as "BUG: ....." under their page.

 

[Woodsey]

That's quite a thing to slip through testing, especially for BioWare.

Still, at least they seem to have responded fairly quickly.

"As an alternative workaround, PS3 owners can also avoid the Mass Effect 2 save bug by purchasing an Xbox."

Fucking hell, the Escapist is flame-baiting more than the users at the minute xD

I think there asking for it more the PC users by not mentioning us...

What about the pc humm! We've has it since day 1 as well.

Ot: hummm, this has been said but, this is quite the thing to miss before release, but at least the patch is out now.

I was going to but the guy above me had us covered

 

[mxfox408]

Ahhhh well the ps3 and xbox users debate over thier inferior systems us pc users are enjoying how we can play our games in super quality, no cd fix, mods, save editors, hell glade i built a decent pc, besides facistbox charges a stupid fee just to play games so i say f*** the middle man.

 

[Centrophy]

That's great and all BioWare, but when in the fuck are you going to fix the Conrad glitch in the PC & 360 versions of the game that's been out for just over a year now?

Lol, never. That's a glitch with the save value from ME1. Just like the bug that says that Sirta Foundation is slated to close because Shepard failed to save all the scientists in ME1. If I recall even in the ME1 elevator news it still said that everyone was slaughtered even though the player doesn't let drugged scientists die.

 

[Danpascooch]

snip

.

I get where you're coming from, but there are two important points I would like to make.

First of all there were less glitches is PS2 days because games were less complicated and less advanced, much in the same way you'll find glitches in Windows Vista but not in a graphing calculator, it's because of how less complex a calculator is.

Secondly, they were able to fix it because it was an easy to fix glitch, most glitches are easy to fix, the problem isn't fixing them, it is FINDING them, you have to have the exact conditions come along that trigger the glitch to find it, and it was only because PS3 users found it and reported what they were doing when it happened that it is being corrected now. There is nothing to suggest any reasonable amount of playtesting could have found this, and again, I (and most consumers) would rather have them spending time making new content, then hunting down a single glitch that could takes years to find. With so many people playing ME2 for the PS3, it took a lot of man hours to find the glitch, Bioware couldn't have been expected to find it.

Yes it sucks, and it would have been better if it didn't happen, but it's not a result of any negligence on Bioware's part, their games are for the most part less glitchy than the majority of games out there.

Hey don't get me wrong. PS2 had it fair share of glitchy games. I think you missed the point I was trying to make with it. It seems that most companies have begun to rely on patching the games instead of ensuring they are developed properly in the first place (Fallout NV being a prime example).

And as much as I loved DA:O it had problems. Dex not adding damage to arrows should not have passed testing. Sorry that is unforgiveable no matter how you try and gloss it over. There is no way we should have had to wait months to get that fixed (a patch that was finished long before it came out but instead of taking the hit like they should have they waited to put it out with the DLC to save $$). A more forgiveable glitch is one that I encountered. During the end battle a couple of my character portraits turned into clouds. And during the final cutscene the backs of their heads were missing. So I could actually see in their heads and the backs of their eyeballs. It only happened once out of the 4 times I beat it so I can understand how a slight hiccup like that can occur. I am telling you the worse offense to me is framerate slowdown. That to me is unacceptable. I mean I can understand if I was a PC gamer but being of the lowly console gamer variety I cannot accept that they would allow framerate problems into a game where the platform is universally the same. A minor dip here and there ya fine but some games get ridiculous.

That one about the dexterity not affecting arrow damage certainly does sound like it should have passed testing, there is just so much complexity in these systems, it's never about whether or not it has glitches, just how many. I think Bioware is pretty good, not the best, but better than most.

Anyway, about the framerate, this seems to be the second game you mentioned that for, and I've never had framerate issues with any Bioware game, are you sure your 360 is working properly? You might want to use some compressed air because dust might be causing it to be a bit too hot, or maybe you should check to see if your disc is scratched.

No when it clearly states that this skill will increase this type of damage then it doesn't that is a flaw with the testing. It destroyed the archer class. And nerfed the character I wanted to use. That is part of the tester's job, not just finding game breaking bugs. There is nothing that you can say to justify that. I mean if you are working on a game you should at least play a bit of it yourselves before sending it out. And that problem should have been quite clear itself to any tester unless they didn't bother testing the archer class. Which once again there is no excuse for. What is the point of making a stat based rpg when the stats don't matter?

Well I did have some slowdown in ME1 but i was talking in general there not Bioware specific

I'm not saying that particular bug was justified, but with so many things that can go wrong, SOMETHING is going to go wrong, that is a fact, as long as there aren't too many that means the company is good at bugtesting. In fact, it my last quote I said specifically that particular bug was one that shouldn't have made it through testing (oh shit, I apparently accidentally used the word "should" instead of "shouldn't" now that I look back) but when you compare Bioware's track record with one of say, Obsidian or Bethesda you see they are pretty good at bug control.

In general I don't have much slowdown on the 360, again, I would use canned air and make sure my disks aren't scratched. Unless you are talking about PC, in which case, good fucking luck, PC is a total clusterfuck, best advice I could give you there would be get better hardware.

Oh good I was sitting here thinking oh god I have just started a convo with the world's biggest Bioware fanboy. Glad it was just a typo. lol. No if it was just me who was having problems with the slowdown on some games (not all, Sacred 2 was a major offender so poorly designed, stupid weather effects killed the FR) then yeah I would be looking at my hardware. I infact do spray it with a bit of air every couple weeks just to be safe. And I am pretty much soley a 360 gamer. My PC can't run jack. Though I only used my old PC to play Bioware/Black Isle games and Diablo 2 anyways.

Sacred 2? Never heard of it, I usually stick to major games, I mean, I'm not the kind of gamer that only plays Halo and CoD but things like Dead Space, Bioshock, Mass Effect, mostly the major players, I don't play a lot of games that aren't popular or very well reviewed, so I wouldn't know about those, so I'll take your word for it.

But yeah, that dexterity bug sounds bad.

 

[soren7550]

I believe this sums it up nicely:

Amen brothersister. This one is irking me forever!

Fixed it for ya.;]

Lol, never. That's a glitch with the save value from ME1. Just like the bug that says that Sirta Foundation is slated to close because Shepard failed to save all the scientists in ME1. If I recall even in the ME1 elevator news it still said that everyone was slaughtered even though the player doesn't let drugged scientists die.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that one. But I'm fairly sure that in ME1 (360 version anyway) the elevator news gets it right. Conrad is much easier to remember since you interact with him frequently in ME2 and you actually talk to him in ME2, while the Sirta Foundation news is only heard if you listen to the Galatic News Stations.

Which reminds me that they also have a problem with Shiala (the asari consort), as it always says that she has to/is leaving the Presidium due to smear attacks or whatever it was, I can't remember exactly what at the moment.

 

[squid5580]

snip

.

I get where you're coming from, but there are two important points I would like to make.

First of all there were less glitches is PS2 days because games were less complicated and less advanced, much in the same way you'll find glitches in Windows Vista but not in a graphing calculator, it's because of how less complex a calculator is.

Secondly, they were able to fix it because it was an easy to fix glitch, most glitches are easy to fix, the problem isn't fixing them, it is FINDING them, you have to have the exact conditions come along that trigger the glitch to find it, and it was only because PS3 users found it and reported what they were doing when it happened that it is being corrected now. There is nothing to suggest any reasonable amount of playtesting could have found this, and again, I (and most consumers) would rather have them spending time making new content, then hunting down a single glitch that could takes years to find. With so many people playing ME2 for the PS3, it took a lot of man hours to find the glitch, Bioware couldn't have been expected to find it.

Yes it sucks, and it would have been better if it didn't happen, but it's not a result of any negligence on Bioware's part, their games are for the most part less glitchy than the majority of games out there.

Hey don't get me wrong. PS2 had it fair share of glitchy games. I think you missed the point I was trying to make with it. It seems that most companies have begun to rely on patching the games instead of ensuring they are developed properly in the first place (Fallout NV being a prime example).

And as much as I loved DA:O it had problems. Dex not adding damage to arrows should not have passed testing. Sorry that is unforgiveable no matter how you try and gloss it over. There is no way we should have had to wait months to get that fixed (a patch that was finished long before it came out but instead of taking the hit like they should have they waited to put it out with the DLC to save $$). A more forgiveable glitch is one that I encountered. During the end battle a couple of my character portraits turned into clouds. And during the final cutscene the backs of their heads were missing. So I could actually see in their heads and the backs of their eyeballs. It only happened once out of the 4 times I beat it so I can understand how a slight hiccup like that can occur. I am telling you the worse offense to me is framerate slowdown. That to me is unacceptable. I mean I can understand if I was a PC gamer but being of the lowly console gamer variety I cannot accept that they would allow framerate problems into a game where the platform is universally the same. A minor dip here and there ya fine but some games get ridiculous.

That one about the dexterity not affecting arrow damage certainly does sound like it should have passed testing, there is just so much complexity in these systems, it's never about whether or not it has glitches, just how many. I think Bioware is pretty good, not the best, but better than most.

Anyway, about the framerate, this seems to be the second game you mentioned that for, and I've never had framerate issues with any Bioware game, are you sure your 360 is working properly? You might want to use some compressed air because dust might be causing it to be a bit too hot, or maybe you should check to see if your disc is scratched.

No when it clearly states that this skill will increase this type of damage then it doesn't that is a flaw with the testing. It destroyed the archer class. And nerfed the character I wanted to use. That is part of the tester's job, not just finding game breaking bugs. There is nothing that you can say to justify that. I mean if you are working on a game you should at least play a bit of it yourselves before sending it out. And that problem should have been quite clear itself to any tester unless they didn't bother testing the archer class. Which once again there is no excuse for. What is the point of making a stat based rpg when the stats don't matter?

Well I did have some slowdown in ME1 but i was talking in general there not Bioware specific

I'm not saying that particular bug was justified, but with so many things that can go wrong, SOMETHING is going to go wrong, that is a fact, as long as there aren't too many that means the company is good at bugtesting. In fact, it my last quote I said specifically that particular bug was one that shouldn't have made it through testing (oh shit, I apparently accidentally used the word "should" instead of "shouldn't" now that I look back) but when you compare Bioware's track record with one of say, Obsidian or Bethesda you see they are pretty good at bug control.

In general I don't have much slowdown on the 360, again, I would use canned air and make sure my disks aren't scratched. Unless you are talking about PC, in which case, good fucking luck, PC is a total clusterfuck, best advice I could give you there would be get better hardware.

Oh good I was sitting here thinking oh god I have just started a convo with the world's biggest Bioware fanboy. Glad it was just a typo. lol. No if it was just me who was having problems with the slowdown on some games (not all, Sacred 2 was a major offender so poorly designed, stupid weather effects killed the FR) then yeah I would be looking at my hardware. I infact do spray it with a bit of air every couple weeks just to be safe. And I am pretty much soley a 360 gamer. My PC can't run jack. Though I only used my old PC to play Bioware/Black Isle games and Diablo 2 anyways.

Sacred 2? Never heard of it, I usually stick to major games, I mean, I'm not the kind of gamer that only plays Halo and CoD but things like Dead Space, Bioshock, Mass Effect, mostly the major players, I don't play a lot of games that aren't popular or very well reviewed, so I wouldn't know about those, so I'll take your word for it.

But yeah, that dexterity bug sounds bad.

Sacred 2 is a Diablo type game. The only difference really is the size of the world (and you know classes, story ect). It sounds impressive on paper with a 400 square foot mile world or some such silliness (the world was freakin huge). It would have been an awesome game but it was plagued with bugs. Framerate issues, 1 quest sent you into an unfinished dungeon (it was just a black pit of nothingness) and a nasty bug that just completely deleted characters. And the excuse for not finding the character deletion bug was, no word of a lie, because they don't use off the shelf 360s but use special dev 360s. That was about when I started to become very jaded about glitches.

 

[Danpascooch]

snip

.

I get where you're coming from, but there are two important points I would like to make.

First of all there were less glitches is PS2 days because games were less complicated and less advanced, much in the same way you'll find glitches in Windows Vista but not in a graphing calculator, it's because of how less complex a calculator is.

Secondly, they were able to fix it because it was an easy to fix glitch, most glitches are easy to fix, the problem isn't fixing them, it is FINDING them, you have to have the exact conditions come along that trigger the glitch to find it, and it was only because PS3 users found it and reported what they were doing when it happened that it is being corrected now. There is nothing to suggest any reasonable amount of playtesting could have found this, and again, I (and most consumers) would rather have them spending time making new content, then hunting down a single glitch that could takes years to find. With so many people playing ME2 for the PS3, it took a lot of man hours to find the glitch, Bioware couldn't have been expected to find it.

Yes it sucks, and it would have been better if it didn't happen, but it's not a result of any negligence on Bioware's part, their games are for the most part less glitchy than the majority of games out there.

Hey don't get me wrong. PS2 had it fair share of glitchy games. I think you missed the point I was trying to make with it. It seems that most companies have begun to rely on patching the games instead of ensuring they are developed properly in the first place (Fallout NV being a prime example).

And as much as I loved DA:O it had problems. Dex not adding damage to arrows should not have passed testing. Sorry that is unforgiveable no matter how you try and gloss it over. There is no way we should have had to wait months to get that fixed (a patch that was finished long before it came out but instead of taking the hit like they should have they waited to put it out with the DLC to save $$). A more forgiveable glitch is one that I encountered. During the end battle a couple of my character portraits turned into clouds. And during the final cutscene the backs of their heads were missing. So I could actually see in their heads and the backs of their eyeballs. It only happened once out of the 4 times I beat it so I can understand how a slight hiccup like that can occur. I am telling you the worse offense to me is framerate slowdown. That to me is unacceptable. I mean I can understand if I was a PC gamer but being of the lowly console gamer variety I cannot accept that they would allow framerate problems into a game where the platform is universally the same. A minor dip here and there ya fine but some games get ridiculous.

That one about the dexterity not affecting arrow damage certainly does sound like it should have passed testing, there is just so much complexity in these systems, it's never about whether or not it has glitches, just how many. I think Bioware is pretty good, not the best, but better than most.

Anyway, about the framerate, this seems to be the second game you mentioned that for, and I've never had framerate issues with any Bioware game, are you sure your 360 is working properly? You might want to use some compressed air because dust might be causing it to be a bit too hot, or maybe you should check to see if your disc is scratched.

No when it clearly states that this skill will increase this type of damage then it doesn't that is a flaw with the testing. It destroyed the archer class. And nerfed the character I wanted to use. That is part of the tester's job, not just finding game breaking bugs. There is nothing that you can say to justify that. I mean if you are working on a game you should at least play a bit of it yourselves before sending it out. And that problem should have been quite clear itself to any tester unless they didn't bother testing the archer class. Which once again there is no excuse for. What is the point of making a stat based rpg when the stats don't matter?

Well I did have some slowdown in ME1 but i was talking in general there not Bioware specific

I'm not saying that particular bug was justified, but with so many things that can go wrong, SOMETHING is going to go wrong, that is a fact, as long as there aren't too many that means the company is good at bugtesting. In fact, it my last quote I said specifically that particular bug was one that shouldn't have made it through testing (oh shit, I apparently accidentally used the word "should" instead of "shouldn't" now that I look back) but when you compare Bioware's track record with one of say, Obsidian or Bethesda you see they are pretty good at bug control.

In general I don't have much slowdown on the 360, again, I would use canned air and make sure my disks aren't scratched. Unless you are talking about PC, in which case, good fucking luck, PC is a total clusterfuck, best advice I could give you there would be get better hardware.

Oh good I was sitting here thinking oh god I have just started a convo with the world's biggest Bioware fanboy. Glad it was just a typo. lol. No if it was just me who was having problems with the slowdown on some games (not all, Sacred 2 was a major offender so poorly designed, stupid weather effects killed the FR) then yeah I would be looking at my hardware. I infact do spray it with a bit of air every couple weeks just to be safe. And I am pretty much soley a 360 gamer. My PC can't run jack. Though I only used my old PC to play Bioware/Black Isle games and Diablo 2 anyways.

Sacred 2? Never heard of it, I usually stick to major games, I mean, I'm not the kind of gamer that only plays Halo and CoD but things like Dead Space, Bioshock, Mass Effect, mostly the major players, I don't play a lot of games that aren't popular or very well reviewed, so I wouldn't know about those, so I'll take your word for it.

But yeah, that dexterity bug sounds bad.

Sacred 2 is a Diablo type game. The only difference really is the size of the world (and you know classes, story ect). It sounds impressive on paper with a 400 square foot mile world or some such silliness (the world was freakin huge). It would have been an awesome game but it was plagued with bugs. Framerate issues, 1 quest sent you into an unfinished dungeon (it was just a black pit of nothingness) and a nasty bug that just completely deleted characters. And the excuse for not finding the character deletion bug was, no word of a lie, because they don't use off the shelf 360s but use special dev 360s. That was about when I started to become very jaded about glitches.

There are always going to be lazy developers who don't playtest properly, Obsidian in particular (Kotor 2, Fallout New Vegas) has been on my shit-list for a while, you know that giant patch that came out for New Vegas that fixed most of the glitches? That came from the publisher Bethesda, they couldn't even be bothered to clean up their own mess.

While there are plenty of games where the amount of bugs is unacceptable, the important thing to remember is that it is impossible to find them all, and you need to keep a reasonable mindset about what exactly is acceptable since perfection is impossible.

For me, the two things that I believe make a bug unacceptable is:

1.) It's easy to find
2.) It's easy to fix

The dexterity bug you mentioned meets both criteria, so that was clearly an oversight. One bug in particular that pissed me off was that in Fable 3, I was a white man, I married a white woman, and we had an incredibly dark skinned child. It turns out the skin color of babies in Fable 3 is COMPLETELY RANDOMIZED. I could literally fix this myself in 5 minutes, given that colors are expressed numerically, all you would need to do is add the values of each parent's skin color and divide by 2 to get the color of the baby, hell, that would probably be EASIER than setting up a system to randomize it.

So yeah, I completely agree that there are plenty of unacceptable development standards out there, and there are an unreasonable amount of games that don't make the cut, but it's important to not set your standards at perfection.

 

[hyperdrachen]

Nice to see Bioware get on top of the problem quickly. Wasnt hit by the save bug myself, but itll be nice to see a reduction in load times.

As an alternative workaround, PS3 owners can also avoid the Mass Effect 2 save bug by purchasing an Xbox.

This is flamebait, please remove it before it catches.

I mainly just take exception with his lack of trollface at the bottom of the post subtitled "U Mad?"

 

[Sion_Barzahd]

This thread is going to turn ugly pretty soon. Haha.

Are all the DLC's available on the PS3?

Yeah the DLC is available there is also some "exclusive" DLC which is rehashed bits of old content.

OP: A part of me is glad to see a problem with ME2 on the PS3, i think that exclusives should stay exclusive, for any console.
Also that last sentence is perfect fuel for a flame war.

 

[squid5580]

snip

.

I get where you're coming from, but there are two important points I would like to make.

First of all there were less glitches is PS2 days because games were less complicated and less advanced, much in the same way you'll find glitches in Windows Vista but not in a graphing calculator, it's because of how less complex a calculator is.

Secondly, they were able to fix it because it was an easy to fix glitch, most glitches are easy to fix, the problem isn't fixing them, it is FINDING them, you have to have the exact conditions come along that trigger the glitch to find it, and it was only because PS3 users found it and reported what they were doing when it happened that it is being corrected now. There is nothing to suggest any reasonable amount of playtesting could have found this, and again, I (and most consumers) would rather have them spending time making new content, then hunting down a single glitch that could takes years to find. With so many people playing ME2 for the PS3, it took a lot of man hours to find the glitch, Bioware couldn't have been expected to find it.

Yes it sucks, and it would have been better if it didn't happen, but it's not a result of any negligence on Bioware's part, their games are for the most part less glitchy than the majority of games out there.

Hey don't get me wrong. PS2 had it fair share of glitchy games. I think you missed the point I was trying to make with it. It seems that most companies have begun to rely on patching the games instead of ensuring they are developed properly in the first place (Fallout NV being a prime example).

And as much as I loved DA:O it had problems. Dex not adding damage to arrows should not have passed testing. Sorry that is unforgiveable no matter how you try and gloss it over. There is no way we should have had to wait months to get that fixed (a patch that was finished long before it came out but instead of taking the hit like they should have they waited to put it out with the DLC to save $$). A more forgiveable glitch is one that I encountered. During the end battle a couple of my character portraits turned into clouds. And during the final cutscene the backs of their heads were missing. So I could actually see in their heads and the backs of their eyeballs. It only happened once out of the 4 times I beat it so I can understand how a slight hiccup like that can occur. I am telling you the worse offense to me is framerate slowdown. That to me is unacceptable. I mean I can understand if I was a PC gamer but being of the lowly console gamer variety I cannot accept that they would allow framerate problems into a game where the platform is universally the same. A minor dip here and there ya fine but some games get ridiculous.

That one about the dexterity not affecting arrow damage certainly does sound like it should have passed testing, there is just so much complexity in these systems, it's never about whether or not it has glitches, just how many. I think Bioware is pretty good, not the best, but better than most.

Anyway, about the framerate, this seems to be the second game you mentioned that for, and I've never had framerate issues with any Bioware game, are you sure your 360 is working properly? You might want to use some compressed air because dust might be causing it to be a bit too hot, or maybe you should check to see if your disc is scratched.

No when it clearly states that this skill will increase this type of damage then it doesn't that is a flaw with the testing. It destroyed the archer class. And nerfed the character I wanted to use. That is part of the tester's job, not just finding game breaking bugs. There is nothing that you can say to justify that. I mean if you are working on a game you should at least play a bit of it yourselves before sending it out. And that problem should have been quite clear itself to any tester unless they didn't bother testing the archer class. Which once again there is no excuse for. What is the point of making a stat based rpg when the stats don't matter?

Well I did have some slowdown in ME1 but i was talking in general there not Bioware specific

I'm not saying that particular bug was justified, but with so many things that can go wrong, SOMETHING is going to go wrong, that is a fact, as long as there aren't too many that means the company is good at bugtesting. In fact, it my last quote I said specifically that particular bug was one that shouldn't have made it through testing (oh shit, I apparently accidentally used the word "should" instead of "shouldn't" now that I look back) but when you compare Bioware's track record with one of say, Obsidian or Bethesda you see they are pretty good at bug control.

In general I don't have much slowdown on the 360, again, I would use canned air and make sure my disks aren't scratched. Unless you are talking about PC, in which case, good fucking luck, PC is a total clusterfuck, best advice I could give you there would be get better hardware.

Oh good I was sitting here thinking oh god I have just started a convo with the world's biggest Bioware fanboy. Glad it was just a typo. lol. No if it was just me who was having problems with the slowdown on some games (not all, Sacred 2 was a major offender so poorly designed, stupid weather effects killed the FR) then yeah I would be looking at my hardware. I infact do spray it with a bit of air every couple weeks just to be safe. And I am pretty much soley a 360 gamer. My PC can't run jack. Though I only used my old PC to play Bioware/Black Isle games and Diablo 2 anyways.

Sacred 2? Never heard of it, I usually stick to major games, I mean, I'm not the kind of gamer that only plays Halo and CoD but things like Dead Space, Bioshock, Mass Effect, mostly the major players, I don't play a lot of games that aren't popular or very well reviewed, so I wouldn't know about those, so I'll take your word for it.

But yeah, that dexterity bug sounds bad.

Sacred 2 is a Diablo type game. The only difference really is the size of the world (and you know classes, story ect). It sounds impressive on paper with a 400 square foot mile world or some such silliness (the world was freakin huge). It would have been an awesome game but it was plagued with bugs. Framerate issues, 1 quest sent you into an unfinished dungeon (it was just a black pit of nothingness) and a nasty bug that just completely deleted characters. And the excuse for not finding the character deletion bug was, no word of a lie, because they don't use off the shelf 360s but use special dev 360s. That was about when I started to become very jaded about glitches.

There are always going to be lazy developers who don't playtest properly, Obsidian in particular (Kotor 2, Fallout New Vegas) has been on my shit-list for a while, you know that giant patch that came out for New Vegas that fixed most of the glitches? That came from the publisher Bethesda, they couldn't even be bothered to clean up their own mess.

While there are plenty of games where the amount of bugs is unacceptable, the important thing to remember is that it is impossible to find them all, and you need to keep a reasonable mindset about what exactly is acceptable since perfection is impossible.

For me, the two things that I believe make a bug unacceptable is:

1.) It's easy to find
2.) It's easy to fix

The dexterity bug you mentioned meets both criteria, so that was clearly an oversight. One bug in particular that pissed me off was that in Fable 3, I was a white man, I married a white woman, and we had an incredibly dark skinned child. It turns out the skin color of babies in Fable 3 is COMPLETELY RANDOMIZED. I could literally fix this myself in 5 minutes, given that colors are expressed numerically, all you would need to do is add the values of each parent's skin color and divide by 2 to get the color of the baby, hell, that would probably be EASIER than setting up a system to randomize it.

So yeah, I completely agree that there are plenty of unacceptable development standards out there, and there are an unreasonable amount of games that don't make the cut, but it's important to not set your standards at perfection.

See to me the Fable example is not a bug or a glitch. But I do understand where you are coming from with it. To you it breaks the immersion but to me I would simply justify it as my virtual wife is a whore. Then I would kill her.

And it isn't that I expect perfection in a game. 20 years of gaming has taught me that it isn't going to happen in my lifetime. It just seems we gamers as a whole have allowed them to lower their standards while at the same time raising their prices. Then we excuse it by saying things like well game development is hard and well if they were to fix it pre launch the game would be delayed. The patching system is great don't get me wrong. It beats the alternative where if a bug does slip by to bad so sad. But it just seems instead of it being used in an emergency situation it is now being abused to get the game out asap. Which is great short term thinking but in the long run it is going to turn gamers jaded against pre ordering, buying on launch day ect. We shouldn't feel stupid for buying a game new on release day. But far to often that is the feeling we get left with.

 

[Danpascooch]

snip

.

I get where you're coming from, but there are two important points I would like to make.

First of all there were less glitches is PS2 days because games were less complicated and less advanced, much in the same way you'll find glitches in Windows Vista but not in a graphing calculator, it's because of how less complex a calculator is.

Secondly, they were able to fix it because it was an easy to fix glitch, most glitches are easy to fix, the problem isn't fixing them, it is FINDING them, you have to have the exact conditions come along that trigger the glitch to find it, and it was only because PS3 users found it and reported what they were doing when it happened that it is being corrected now. There is nothing to suggest any reasonable amount of playtesting could have found this, and again, I (and most consumers) would rather have them spending time making new content, then hunting down a single glitch that could takes years to find. With so many people playing ME2 for the PS3, it took a lot of man hours to find the glitch, Bioware couldn't have been expected to find it.

Yes it sucks, and it would have been better if it didn't happen, but it's not a result of any negligence on Bioware's part, their games are for the most part less glitchy than the majority of games out there.

Hey don't get me wrong. PS2 had it fair share of glitchy games. I think you missed the point I was trying to make with it. It seems that most companies have begun to rely on patching the games instead of ensuring they are developed properly in the first place (Fallout NV being a prime example).

And as much as I loved DA:O it had problems. Dex not adding damage to arrows should not have passed testing. Sorry that is unforgiveable no matter how you try and gloss it over. There is no way we should have had to wait months to get that fixed (a patch that was finished long before it came out but instead of taking the hit like they should have they waited to put it out with the DLC to save $$). A more forgiveable glitch is one that I encountered. During the end battle a couple of my character portraits turned into clouds. And during the final cutscene the backs of their heads were missing. So I could actually see in their heads and the backs of their eyeballs. It only happened once out of the 4 times I beat it so I can understand how a slight hiccup like that can occur. I am telling you the worse offense to me is framerate slowdown. That to me is unacceptable. I mean I can understand if I was a PC gamer but being of the lowly console gamer variety I cannot accept that they would allow framerate problems into a game where the platform is universally the same. A minor dip here and there ya fine but some games get ridiculous.

That one about the dexterity not affecting arrow damage certainly does sound like it should have passed testing, there is just so much complexity in these systems, it's never about whether or not it has glitches, just how many. I think Bioware is pretty good, not the best, but better than most.

Anyway, about the framerate, this seems to be the second game you mentioned that for, and I've never had framerate issues with any Bioware game, are you sure your 360 is working properly? You might want to use some compressed air because dust might be causing it to be a bit too hot, or maybe you should check to see if your disc is scratched.

No when it clearly states that this skill will increase this type of damage then it doesn't that is a flaw with the testing. It destroyed the archer class. And nerfed the character I wanted to use. That is part of the tester's job, not just finding game breaking bugs. There is nothing that you can say to justify that. I mean if you are working on a game you should at least play a bit of it yourselves before sending it out. And that problem should have been quite clear itself to any tester unless they didn't bother testing the archer class. Which once again there is no excuse for. What is the point of making a stat based rpg when the stats don't matter?

Well I did have some slowdown in ME1 but i was talking in general there not Bioware specific

I'm not saying that particular bug was justified, but with so many things that can go wrong, SOMETHING is going to go wrong, that is a fact, as long as there aren't too many that means the company is good at bugtesting. In fact, it my last quote I said specifically that particular bug was one that shouldn't have made it through testing (oh shit, I apparently accidentally used the word "should" instead of "shouldn't" now that I look back) but when you compare Bioware's track record with one of say, Obsidian or Bethesda you see they are pretty good at bug control.

In general I don't have much slowdown on the 360, again, I would use canned air and make sure my disks aren't scratched. Unless you are talking about PC, in which case, good fucking luck, PC is a total clusterfuck, best advice I could give you there would be get better hardware.

Oh good I was sitting here thinking oh god I have just started a convo with the world's biggest Bioware fanboy. Glad it was just a typo. lol. No if it was just me who was having problems with the slowdown on some games (not all, Sacred 2 was a major offender so poorly designed, stupid weather effects killed the FR) then yeah I would be looking at my hardware. I infact do spray it with a bit of air every couple weeks just to be safe. And I am pretty much soley a 360 gamer. My PC can't run jack. Though I only used my old PC to play Bioware/Black Isle games and Diablo 2 anyways.

Sacred 2? Never heard of it, I usually stick to major games, I mean, I'm not the kind of gamer that only plays Halo and CoD but things like Dead Space, Bioshock, Mass Effect, mostly the major players, I don't play a lot of games that aren't popular or very well reviewed, so I wouldn't know about those, so I'll take your word for it.

But yeah, that dexterity bug sounds bad.

Sacred 2 is a Diablo type game. The only difference really is the size of the world (and you know classes, story ect). It sounds impressive on paper with a 400 square foot mile world or some such silliness (the world was freakin huge). It would have been an awesome game but it was plagued with bugs. Framerate issues, 1 quest sent you into an unfinished dungeon (it was just a black pit of nothingness) and a nasty bug that just completely deleted characters. And the excuse for not finding the character deletion bug was, no word of a lie, because they don't use off the shelf 360s but use special dev 360s. That was about when I started to become very jaded about glitches.

There are always going to be lazy developers who don't playtest properly, Obsidian in particular (Kotor 2, Fallout New Vegas) has been on my shit-list for a while, you know that giant patch that came out for New Vegas that fixed most of the glitches? That came from the publisher Bethesda, they couldn't even be bothered to clean up their own mess.

While there are plenty of games where the amount of bugs is unacceptable, the important thing to remember is that it is impossible to find them all, and you need to keep a reasonable mindset about what exactly is acceptable since perfection is impossible.

For me, the two things that I believe make a bug unacceptable is:

1.) It's easy to find
2.) It's easy to fix

The dexterity bug you mentioned meets both criteria, so that was clearly an oversight. One bug in particular that pissed me off was that in Fable 3, I was a white man, I married a white woman, and we had an incredibly dark skinned child. It turns out the skin color of babies in Fable 3 is COMPLETELY RANDOMIZED. I could literally fix this myself in 5 minutes, given that colors are expressed numerically, all you would need to do is add the values of each parent's skin color and divide by 2 to get the color of the baby, hell, that would probably be EASIER than setting up a system to randomize it.

So yeah, I completely agree that there are plenty of unacceptable development standards out there, and there are an unreasonable amount of games that don't make the cut, but it's important to not set your standards at perfection.

See to me the Fable example is not a bug or a glitch. But I do understand where you are coming from with it. To you it breaks the immersion but to me I would simply justify it as my virtual wife is a whore. Then I would kill her.

And it isn't that I expect perfection in a game. 20 years of gaming has taught me that it isn't going to happen in my lifetime. It just seems we gamers as a whole have allowed them to lower their standards while at the same time raising their prices. Then we excuse it by saying things like well game development is hard and well if they were to fix it pre launch the game would be delayed. The patching system is great don't get me wrong. It beats the alternative where if a bug does slip by to bad so sad. But it just seems instead of it being used in an emergency situation it is now being abused to get the game out asap. Which is great short term thinking but in the long run it is going to turn gamers jaded against pre ordering, buying on launch day ect. We shouldn't feel stupid for buying a game new on release day. But far to often that is the feeling we get left with.

You know, people say that's not supposed to be a glitch, but I don't buy it. Fable III is nothing if not subtle in its humor, every funny thing is shoved in your face, if they wanted my wife to have had a child with someone else, he would be hanging around, and it would be a sidequest or something.

 

[squid5580]

snip

.

.

There are always going to be lazy developers who don't playtest properly, Obsidian in particular (Kotor 2, Fallout New Vegas) has been on my shit-list for a while, you know that giant patch that came out for New Vegas that fixed most of the glitches? That came from the publisher Bethesda, they couldn't even be bothered to clean up their own mess.

While there are plenty of games where the amount of bugs is unacceptable, the important thing to remember is that it is impossible to find them all, and you need to keep a reasonable mindset about what exactly is acceptable since perfection is impossible.

For me, the two things that I believe make a bug unacceptable is:

1.) It's easy to find
2.) It's easy to fix

The dexterity bug you mentioned meets both criteria, so that was clearly an oversight. One bug in particular that pissed me off was that in Fable 3, I was a white man, I married a white woman, and we had an incredibly dark skinned child. It turns out the skin color of babies in Fable 3 is COMPLETELY RANDOMIZED. I could literally fix this myself in 5 minutes, given that colors are expressed numerically, all you would need to do is add the values of each parent's skin color and divide by 2 to get the color of the baby, hell, that would probably be EASIER than setting up a system to randomize it.

So yeah, I completely agree that there are plenty of unacceptable development standards out there, and there are an unreasonable amount of games that don't make the cut, but it's important to not set your standards at perfection.

See to me the Fable example is not a bug or a glitch. But I do understand where you are coming from with it. To you it breaks the immersion but to me I would simply justify it as my virtual wife is a whore. Then I would kill her.

And it isn't that I expect perfection in a game. 20 years of gaming has taught me that it isn't going to happen in my lifetime. It just seems we gamers as a whole have allowed them to lower their standards while at the same time raising their prices. Then we excuse it by saying things like well game development is hard and well if they were to fix it pre launch the game would be delayed. The patching system is great don't get me wrong. It beats the alternative where if a bug does slip by to bad so sad. But it just seems instead of it being used in an emergency situation it is now being abused to get the game out asap. Which is great short term thinking but in the long run it is going to turn gamers jaded against pre ordering, buying on launch day ect. We shouldn't feel stupid for buying a game new on release day. But far to often that is the feeling we get left with.

You know, people say that's not supposed to be a glitch, but I don't buy it. Fable III is nothing if not subtle in its humor, every funny thing is shoved in your face, if they wanted my wife to have had a child with someone else, he would be hanging around, and it would be a sidequest or something.

I beg to differ. Why should you be able to get your revenge on an innocent victim? He owes you nothing. He didn't betray you. He got what he wanted and escaped while you have to pick up the tab. Plus if you were banging some super heroe's old lady would you stick around afterwards? I mean you can kill him with a flick of your finger. If I was him the far side of the planet wouldn't far enough away. Let alone hanging around outside your door.

You are making me think I didn't give Fable 3 a fair shake and should try it again lol. Realism at it's finest IMHO. lol.

 

[Danpascooch]

snip

.

.

There are always going to be lazy developers who don't playtest properly, Obsidian in particular (Kotor 2, Fallout New Vegas) has been on my shit-list for a while, you know that giant patch that came out for New Vegas that fixed most of the glitches? That came from the publisher Bethesda, they couldn't even be bothered to clean up their own mess.

While there are plenty of games where the amount of bugs is unacceptable, the important thing to remember is that it is impossible to find them all, and you need to keep a reasonable mindset about what exactly is acceptable since perfection is impossible.

For me, the two things that I believe make a bug unacceptable is:

1.) It's easy to find
2.) It's easy to fix

The dexterity bug you mentioned meets both criteria, so that was clearly an oversight. One bug in particular that pissed me off was that in Fable 3, I was a white man, I married a white woman, and we had an incredibly dark skinned child. It turns out the skin color of babies in Fable 3 is COMPLETELY RANDOMIZED. I could literally fix this myself in 5 minutes, given that colors are expressed numerically, all you would need to do is add the values of each parent's skin color and divide by 2 to get the color of the baby, hell, that would probably be EASIER than setting up a system to randomize it.

So yeah, I completely agree that there are plenty of unacceptable development standards out there, and there are an unreasonable amount of games that don't make the cut, but it's important to not set your standards at perfection.

See to me the Fable example is not a bug or a glitch. But I do understand where you are coming from with it. To you it breaks the immersion but to me I would simply justify it as my virtual wife is a whore. Then I would kill her.

And it isn't that I expect perfection in a game. 20 years of gaming has taught me that it isn't going to happen in my lifetime. It just seems we gamers as a whole have allowed them to lower their standards while at the same time raising their prices. Then we excuse it by saying things like well game development is hard and well if they were to fix it pre launch the game would be delayed. The patching system is great don't get me wrong. It beats the alternative where if a bug does slip by to bad so sad. But it just seems instead of it being used in an emergency situation it is now being abused to get the game out asap. Which is great short term thinking but in the long run it is going to turn gamers jaded against pre ordering, buying on launch day ect. We shouldn't feel stupid for buying a game new on release day. But far to often that is the feeling we get left with.

You know, people say that's not supposed to be a glitch, but I don't buy it. Fable III is nothing if not subtle in its humor, every funny thing is shoved in your face, if they wanted my wife to have had a child with someone else, he would be hanging around, and it would be a sidequest or something.

I beg to differ. Why should you be able to get your revenge on an innocent victim? He owes you nothing. He didn't betray you. He got what he wanted and escaped while you have to pick up the tab. Plus if you were banging some super heroe's old lady would you stick around afterwards? I mean you can kill him with a flick of your finger. If I was him the far side of the planet wouldn't far enough away. Let alone hanging around outside your door.

You are making me think I didn't give Fable 3 a fair shake and should try it again lol. Realism at it's finest IMHO. lol.

I didn't necessarily say you would kill him, just that they would emphasize it and there would be a side quest or something, who knows, maybe it would be an investigation side quest.

 

[squid5580]

snip

.

.

There are always going to be lazy developers who don't playtest properly, Obsidian in particular (Kotor 2, Fallout New Vegas) has been on my shit-list for a while, you know that giant patch that came out for New Vegas that fixed most of the glitches? That came from the publisher Bethesda, they couldn't even be bothered to clean up their own mess.

While there are plenty of games where the amount of bugs is unacceptable, the important thing to remember is that it is impossible to find them all, and you need to keep a reasonable mindset about what exactly is acceptable since perfection is impossible.

For me, the two things that I believe make a bug unacceptable is:

1.) It's easy to find
2.) It's easy to fix

The dexterity bug you mentioned meets both criteria, so that was clearly an oversight. One bug in particular that pissed me off was that in Fable 3, I was a white man, I married a white woman, and we had an incredibly dark skinned child. It turns out the skin color of babies in Fable 3 is COMPLETELY RANDOMIZED. I could literally fix this myself in 5 minutes, given that colors are expressed numerically, all you would need to do is add the values of each parent's skin color and divide by 2 to get the color of the baby, hell, that would probably be EASIER than setting up a system to randomize it.

So yeah, I completely agree that there are plenty of unacceptable development standards out there, and there are an unreasonable amount of games that don't make the cut, but it's important to not set your standards at perfection.

See to me the Fable example is not a bug or a glitch. But I do understand where you are coming from with it. To you it breaks the immersion but to me I would simply justify it as my virtual wife is a whore. Then I would kill her.

And it isn't that I expect perfection in a game. 20 years of gaming has taught me that it isn't going to happen in my lifetime. It just seems we gamers as a whole have allowed them to lower their standards while at the same time raising their prices. Then we excuse it by saying things like well game development is hard and well if they were to fix it pre launch the game would be delayed. The patching system is great don't get me wrong. It beats the alternative where if a bug does slip by to bad so sad. But it just seems instead of it being used in an emergency situation it is now being abused to get the game out asap. Which is great short term thinking but in the long run it is going to turn gamers jaded against pre ordering, buying on launch day ect. We shouldn't feel stupid for buying a game new on release day. But far to often that is the feeling we get left with.

You know, people say that's not supposed to be a glitch, but I don't buy it. Fable III is nothing if not subtle in its humor, every funny thing is shoved in your face, if they wanted my wife to have had a child with someone else, he would be hanging around, and it would be a sidequest or something.

I beg to differ. Why should you be able to get your revenge on an innocent victim? He owes you nothing. He didn't betray you. He got what he wanted and escaped while you have to pick up the tab. Plus if you were banging some super heroe's old lady would you stick around afterwards? I mean you can kill him with a flick of your finger. If I was him the far side of the planet wouldn't far enough away. Let alone hanging around outside your door.

You are making me think I didn't give Fable 3 a fair shake and should try it again lol. Realism at it's finest IMHO. lol.

I didn't necessarily say you would kill him, just that they would emphasize it and there would be a side quest or something, who knows, maybe it would be an investigation side quest.

I can't believe you are forcing me to use the "I" word but that is where your imagination comes in. It shouldn't have to be a "sidequest" given to you by the game. A developer (especially for an RPG like Fable) shouldn't have to give you a sidequest like that. You should be roleplaying it. It is your character, your story. if you got a prompt saying "you slew the guy who impregnated your wife hooray" would take something away from the game. I don't think it is a bad thing that a game allows or even forces the player to use their imagination for something like that. It is why I think it is intentional and not a bug. Especially since like you said it would be easier for them to not randomize it.

I could understand it being immersion-breaking if you rolled a female character and slept with white guys and had a black baby.

 

[Danpascooch]

snip

.

.

There are always going to be lazy developers who don't playtest properly, Obsidian in particular (Kotor 2, Fallout New Vegas) has been on my shit-list for a while, you know that giant patch that came out for New Vegas that fixed most of the glitches? That came from the publisher Bethesda, they couldn't even be bothered to clean up their own mess.

While there are plenty of games where the amount of bugs is unacceptable, the important thing to remember is that it is impossible to find them all, and you need to keep a reasonable mindset about what exactly is acceptable since perfection is impossible.

For me, the two things that I believe make a bug unacceptable is:

1.) It's easy to find
2.) It's easy to fix

The dexterity bug you mentioned meets both criteria, so that was clearly an oversight. One bug in particular that pissed me off was that in Fable 3, I was a white man, I married a white woman, and we had an incredibly dark skinned child. It turns out the skin color of babies in Fable 3 is COMPLETELY RANDOMIZED. I could literally fix this myself in 5 minutes, given that colors are expressed numerically, all you would need to do is add the values of each parent's skin color and divide by 2 to get the color of the baby, hell, that would probably be EASIER than setting up a system to randomize it.

So yeah, I completely agree that there are plenty of unacceptable development standards out there, and there are an unreasonable amount of games that don't make the cut, but it's important to not set your standards at perfection.

See to me the Fable example is not a bug or a glitch. But I do understand where you are coming from with it. To you it breaks the immersion but to me I would simply justify it as my virtual wife is a whore. Then I would kill her.

And it isn't that I expect perfection in a game. 20 years of gaming has taught me that it isn't going to happen in my lifetime. It just seems we gamers as a whole have allowed them to lower their standards while at the same time raising their prices. Then we excuse it by saying things like well game development is hard and well if they were to fix it pre launch the game would be delayed. The patching system is great don't get me wrong. It beats the alternative where if a bug does slip by to bad so sad. But it just seems instead of it being used in an emergency situation it is now being abused to get the game out asap. Which is great short term thinking but in the long run it is going to turn gamers jaded against pre ordering, buying on launch day ect. We shouldn't feel stupid for buying a game new on release day. But far to often that is the feeling we get left with.

You know, people say that's not supposed to be a glitch, but I don't buy it. Fable III is nothing if not subtle in its humor, every funny thing is shoved in your face, if they wanted my wife to have had a child with someone else, he would be hanging around, and it would be a sidequest or something.

I beg to differ. Why should you be able to get your revenge on an innocent victim? He owes you nothing. He didn't betray you. He got what he wanted and escaped while you have to pick up the tab. Plus if you were banging some super heroe's old lady would you stick around afterwards? I mean you can kill him with a flick of your finger. If I was him the far side of the planet wouldn't far enough away. Let alone hanging around outside your door.

You are making me think I didn't give Fable 3 a fair shake and should try it again lol. Realism at it's finest IMHO. lol.

I didn't necessarily say you would kill him, just that they would emphasize it and there would be a side quest or something, who knows, maybe it would be an investigation side quest.

I can't believe you are forcing me to use the "I" word but that is where your imagination comes in. It shouldn't have to be a "sidequest" given to you by the game. A developer (especially for an RPG like Fable) shouldn't have to give you a sidequest like that. You should be roleplaying it. It is your character, your story. if you got a prompt saying "you slew the guy who impregnated your wife hooray" would take something away from the game. I don't think it is a bad thing that a game allows or even forces the player to use their imagination for something like that. It is why I think it is intentional and not a bug. Especially since like you said it would be easier for them to not randomize it.

I could understand it being immersion-breaking if you rolled a female character and slept with white guys and had a black baby.

For any other game I would agree, but have you played Fable III? If a guy slips on a banana peel, they tell you nine times, and much it a fucking six hour questline.

The only reason I think it's a glitch is because they always go to a ridiculous extent to avoid subtlety and shove every joke in your face.