Racist tram woman watches video evidence; denies everything

[JoesshittyOs]

It's not just work opportunities (as immigrants are cheap labour), it's everything, and to make matters worst these modern day immigrants (Polish, Pakistani whatever) don't respect our culture, and the way we do things over here, and we are suppose to respect their culture when we go to their country...pah. They walk the streets in public in the UK wearing Burkas like it's the middle of Delhi or something, it's not on at all.

Ahh.... That one's sure gonna sit with you for a while.

You may not think it, but you're just another racist (or more appropriately, bigot) who think's there entitled to something because "they got there first". I've seen it all to often here in the US, and it's blatantly obvious you've picked up that oh so glorious trait.

 

[Hexenwolf]

The double standards in this country are sickening. If a violent racist Muslim gang can get off with a slap on the wrist because they "weren't used to being drunk", Emma West should be let off without charges and be compensated for her treatment.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2070562/Muslim-girl-gang-kicked-Rhea-Page-head-yelling-kill-white-slag-FREED.html

(Don't bother complaining about the daily mail, the story is legit)

"Hey, other people got away with something because of a stupid judge! Even though she broke the law, lets just let this woman of the hook too!"

I love your reasoning. I really do.

We have this thing called common law, the decision of one "idiot judge" sets a precedent for other cases. Let immigrants off lightly in case of causing offence, punish indigenous peoples harshly for the same crimes. It's not on, the law should be fair and consistent across the board.

But the solution isn't to allow the stupid precedent to remain forever, it's to change it to the correct one. The one where all people are punished for breaking the law.

 

[Mordereth]

You condemn his actions but condone the old lady's? You sir are a hypocrite.

Actions speak louder than words; that was precisely the poster to whom you refer's point was. By his actions the poster who he was talking about lashed out violently against someone who lashed out with their words.

So long as he practices what he preaches, there's nothing in his post that's inherently hypocritical. He thought that using your strength, rather than your words, in a situation against an elderly woman was wrong- are you seriously disagreeing with that sentiment?

The old woman was wrong, certainly; but it's not like he says "this woman was in the right" or "this is totally acceptable behavior on her part." He was trying to express some extraneous factors people tend to ignore about the elderly and why they act the way they do.

 

[JoesshittyOs]

immigrants (Polish, Pakistani whatever) don't respect our culture, and the way we do things over here, and we are suppose to respect their culture when we go to their country...pah. They walk the streets in public in the UK wearing Burkas like it's the middle of Delhi or something, it's not on at all.

The money is all they care about, respecting everyone else, and hell even speaking basic english comes second to them.

Woah!
What the hell is that supposed to mean?

I didn't realise we're judging people because they wear headgear now. I mean, I understand the immigration and the loss of jobs but that comment is completely out of line.

Hahaha, I quoted and bolded thee exact same line as you. I think it's best just to avoid it. I'm sure he won't be around here long enough to regret that.

 

[Jazoni89]

Burkas are a symbol of Islamic empowerment, and yes people do get offended by it, many in fact.

As i said i washed my hands with all of you now, so please have a good day.

A) Yeah, fuck Muslims for wanting to have religious freedom and shit. Fuckin' selfish assholes.

B) "As i said i washed my hands with all of you now, so please have a good day." Classic. Total classic internet maneuver. For those of you who don't know, this translates to "I have no valid argument here so I'm going to pretend that I'm just too damned smart to make myself clear to you and as such must simply slink off quietly."

People do get offended by it, there's been uproars about it on the news and everything, personally I don't, but that's how things go.

No because it's very late here in the UK and I need sleep, i need to dream about all the other racial shit that I'm going to say, then drink out of my British cup in my British flat, and sneer at our non British neighbours.

Who do you take me for, some kind of mug? My delivery, and my way of going about it may not be up to your political correct standards, by I stand by what I believe in, and while it hasn't gone down well, at least I've gave you guys something to chat about which is better than saying the typical hatred message towards her.

I apologise if I have offended everyone, but this is what happens on a public forum were people are able to express something even if it is a negative feeling or reaction.

 

[SenseOfTumour]

I wish everyone would stop calling it a tram. She was on "a train", on "the underground" or on "the tube". Tram is entirely different and we don't have them in London.

Actually it was in Croydon on the Trams there. It's just south from London, so entirely understandable however, and I don't blame you at all for expecting that a journalist didn't bother to check facts

I'd suggest that putting the whole race issue aside for a moment, she was being massively abusive and offensive in public, and surely 'breach of the peace' is enough to nail her.

...

I can't imagine if I, for about 10 minutes straight, sat on a packed train and yelled that everyone on here is a **** and should fuck off and I hate you all, I wouldn't be at least thrown off by the guard, and ideally be arrested at the next station.

Except the thing is I've seen this happen so many times in Britain without any police intervention. People breaching the peace with swearing and accusations and incendiary remarks but they just never happened to be of a racial or nationalistic basis. It's over shit like class or sex or macho challenging or lascivious advances.

You CAN for ten-minutes straight rant and rave at commuters making all sorts of lewd and threatening remarks but just don't go into the area of racism.

This is entirely an inappropriate reaction and disproportionate reaction to racism.

In which case the system is wrong, and there SHOULD be police intervention, imo, but I've seen people arrested just for being overloud, abusive twats in public, tho, perhaps that's due to alcohol. I still don't think we need to pull the racism card, a simple law stating that extreme and prolonged abusive behaviour in public is illegal would have been enough to take her away and put her in a room at the local police station until she realises she's overstepped the mark of what's acceptable in a polite society.

That wouldn't punish people who lose their rag and say something bad for a few seconds, but someone who's clearly out of control and making everyone around them uncomfortable with their abuse, I think it's fine to take them away and give em a time out, just as you would a small child who won't stop yelling 'bum'. Don't lock em up, don't waste court time, or feed the lawyers, just stick em in the police waiting room, give em a caution and let em go when they understand what they've done wrong.

 

[ace_of_something]

The Daily Mail is so right wing that it fell off the plane.

I want to quote this so I remember it, as it's the most apt description of the Daily Mail that i've ever seen.

Yeah but doesn't the 'wing' metaphor originally come from describing a bird, not a plane?

 

[Danny Ocean]

Here's my background...
*snip*

Great post.

well you don't need to rub two penny's together to know that immigration is involved somehow.

Actually that's something you really should do, rather than just accepting the pennies others give you.

My point is, blaming -other- people just trying to get by is bull. Blame rich corporate fuckers hoarding more money than they will ever need, or blame pretty much everyone opposed to birth control.

Well, he has a bit of a point. An increase in the labour supply, without a growth in jobs, can end only two ways: with increased unemployment, or with lower wages.

The 'without a growth in jobs' thing is a big presumption. The UK didn't have many immigrants until the 90's, really, which was coincidentally a period of steadily declining unemployment:

(Compare the curve on the left to the last four bars on the right. Timescales are not the same.)

In fact, unemployment peaked during the decade where we had a lot more leaving than entering; the 80's.

The only reason all the racist people are emerging out of the woodwork now is because the number of jobs is going down, and anecdotally immigrants are more likely to take pay cuts than non-immigrants. I don't know if the data actually supports this assumption or not, and we probably wont until the census spits out its results.

 

[TheMagicLemur]

...Who do you take me for, some kind of mug? My delivery, and my way of going about it may not be up to your political correct standards...

*ahem* [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/2783-Correctitude]

Also, now you done sullied those hands you just washed. Best go wash them of us again.

 

[Treblaine]

She was saying out loud what we as unemployed British adults have been thinking in a long time.

No, I'm not trying to justify what she did because it was bang out of order, but mass unemployment due to asylum seeking is a real issue in the UK at the moment. There's literally no surprise that this has happened at all.

No it's not. so yes you are justifying it you horrible racist.

Whoa whoa WHOOOOA! Hold on there!

You call jazoni a "horrible racist" for suggesting that high levels of immigration might merely be "an issue"? You're saying Jazoli justified her uncouth outburst just because there may be something worth looking at on the basis of this issue?

Do you realise what you are saying?

This is thought-crime!

This is censorship of the worst order!

When did the issue of immigration become a form of blasphemy?

you know what, I disagree with you, so

I'M GOING TO GO TO SOMEWHERE YOU FREQUENT AND SCREAM AT YOU FOR 10 MINUTES USING PROFANITY AND SLURS, AND USE MY CHILD AS A DEFENCE

RA RA RA RA RA RA.


She didn't "state an opinion" she yelled it cursing and swearing at people she assumed were contributing to the problem, without any knowledge of the people she was yelling at what so ever.

Theres a difference between stating an opinion and attacking other people with it. If see was WAY more calm about this whole thing, she probably would have been let off. I'd put money on it.

TLR having an opinion does not justify harassment.

Cursing and swearing? What like you hear every time you turn on the TV?

Come on, she'd sitting down with a toddler on her lap, no way she's intimidating anyone. It's "harassment" of the most benign order! Yeah, she made some jibes, that's the point where the police give her a talking to that this behaviour is unacceptable and get a warning. NOT IMEMDIATLEY ARRESTED AND HAVE HER TRIED IN COURT! Not Take away her children! Not Try to have her imprisoned like she is guilty of some grievous assault!

And all this doesn't excuse you calling jazoni a "horrible racist".

Darkmantle, Now I've seen you on the forums before, I know in other topics you are reasonable and don't fly off the handle like this. What the HELL is going on? Why has everyone gone crazy over this issue?

shall I do up and transcript for the video?

Woman "is this what this countries come to?"

"a load of black people and a load of fucking polish."
"a load of fucking n- (indistict noise) - yeah, your fucking--"

That's the first 10 seconds. a total of 3 fuckings. And it continues at about that rate. Yeah some shows I watch late at night have swearing maybe half as frequent, But I'm an adult, and those are on late. She is cursing and swearing in front of her child. I assume you wouldn't swear like that in front of your young kids. And I'm sure something was really bothering her that day and she was very upset about it, but that doesn't mean she has the right to lash out a people who have done nothing wrong as far as she knows. also adding the "get out of my country" in there a few times. That's a clear hate crime to me, also, it could be argued that she was using her child like a shield, so people wouldn't yell back at her, the other passengers, the ones she insults, seem to have more respect for her child then she does. That's why I can't support her.

Although I'm sure she should get off lighter than she's going to, I have no doubt the book will be thrown at her because of how well publicised this is, and she definitely doesn't deserve all of what's coming to her for sure.

Also I apologize, I get too worked up and confrontational over racism issues sometimes, sorry.

I also get worked up as soon as someone references 1984, damn I hated that book. And most people have no idea what the are talking about when they talk about it. most people do anyway.

I get it there is a lot of swearing but I don't think that is really such a problem. What is the difference between one swear word and three? And I think it's a bit harsh that saying a woman holding her child on her lap is using it as a shield, that just too cynical.

Emigration is not hate.

Inciting violence is hate! These hate crime laws were to target leaders of lynch mobs and racist-parties who plan offensive and intimidatory actions, not a mother having a freak-out on a train.

I'm going to ask you to stop and really consider this for a second: what if this was your mother.

I don't know if you've actually been fortunate enough to have a mother but your parent or guardian, have they ever had the screaming heebie jeebies and said a load of things they don't really mean? That's just an outburst of every idle prejudice and annoyance.

I'm not saying she's right, I'm just saying she isn't as bad as "lock her up and separate her from her family" bad. It's not one extreme or the other, there is the shade of grey here.

Remember, the racists you REALLY want to worry about are the quiet ones. It's the ones who dress up their prejudices and conspire in plain sight. This woman is being used as a scapegoat by both the normal people AND the undercover-racists who like to have this be the face of racism, well racism is everywhere, insidious and feeds of hate and conflict.

But that's not to say racism is a person, it is an idea. You don't destroy an idea by destroying people, that only makes it grow, you destroy it with kindness and courage, like turning the other cheek and helping the mean old lady. Don't you see how that UTTERLY SHATTERS racist prejudices? And add on "I'm not such a bloody immigrant now am I?" to reaffirm your decision.

This is what my parents raised me on. That Hate it wrong. Both FROM racists, and AGAINST them. Racism is an idea that feeds off hate, hate going BOTH ways.

 

[HeatproofShAdOw]

Good. If you want to yell racism on a bus with your kid in front of you and the people you're insulting around you, you deserve some form of punishment.

 

[hooksashands]

I wouldn't say she's racist, just ignorant. We had the same mania floating around the US where people were yelling about illegals stealing our jobs and our womenfolk... Total nonsense. An influx of immigrants does not run parallel with a decline in jobs, the state of the economy fluctuates from things like world trade and wars. And if the companies are the ones hiring, they should be blamed, not the people hired. That just doesn't make any sense.

 

[masticina]

Trying to go for disonenance?

She did it, it was caught on camera maybe she doesn't always remember what she does. Who knows...

 

[Darby]

What. A. *****. Can't we all just get along?

 

[AndyRock]

wow... this thread, I'll just give my opinion then leave.
She went over the line with that rant, but she should not be getting jail time, it's not a great enough crime for that, instead I believe a caution, and some mental help would be the best way to deal with this.
As for the whole 'imigrants are raping our country'(sarcasm btw) thing, it's being blown out of proportion by the media (as the media always does) and I don't have enough information to form a solid opinion on this sort of thing.
btw I'm british and I'm currently a student doing an engineering degree (mechatronic and robotics) in a department where there are about 20% british, and I have to say, the foreigners work bloody hard in comparison.
.... yeah, english was never a strong subject for me

 

[Edible Avatar]

Scapegoat or not, loose immigration laws are a huge issue with regards to the UK, and I'm sure I'm not the only one that shares this view.

I've never been huge on political struggles (not my thing), but the enticement we give to immigrants in this country is huge, and it has tempted a new wave of immigrants to settle down here in the UK, and with the recent slump in unemployment, well you don't need to rub two penny's together to know that immigration is involved somehow.

Here in the states, an immigrant must meet a certain criteria to be able to legally stay in-country. (Someone correct me if i'm off,) I believe that they need to be a refugee from a conflict or warring nation, or they must meet a certain education requirement, or they must be a persecuted group seeking asylum. Lastly, they can immigrate if they have relatives or spouses here.
What exactly is the U.K.'s policy? Is it similar?

EDIT: Ah! Here it is:
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas-immigration/

 

[j0frenzy]

The Daily Mail is so right wing that it fell off the plane.

I want to quote this so I remember it, as it's the most apt description of the Daily Mail that i've ever seen.

Yeah but doesn't the 'wing' metaphor originally come from describing a bird, not a plane?

Actually, my understanding is that it came from wings on a building and how politicians in I think it was Revolutionary France arranged themselves and formed political parties.
And I'm not touching the actual substance of this piece with a ten foot pole. You guys can duke it out.

 

[Alphonse_Lamperouge]

She was saying out loud what we as unemployed British adults have been thinking in a long time.

No, I'm not trying to justify what she did because it was bang out of order, but mass unemployment due to asylum seeking is a real issue in the UK at the moment. There's literally no surprise that this has happened at all.

Feh. Unemployment is a global issue because there are just too goddamned many human beings on earth. Trying to pin it on people seeking asylum is little better than fat rednecks screaming that the Mexicans took their jobs.

My point is, blaming -other- people just trying to get by is bull. Blame rich corporate fuckers hoarding more money than they will ever need, or blame pretty much everyone opposed to birth control.

I could tell from not looking at your profile that you are not British.

The thing is Britain is too small of a country, and our immigration laws are very loose, so the fresh faced immagrants get support, and a lot of welfare from our government. While all of us working class are having a hard time to keep afloat, so everyone is feeling the pinch at moment, except for the insanely rich, and of course the immigrants.

It's not just work opportunities (as immigrants are cheap labour), it's everything, and to make matters worst these modern day immigrants (Polish, Pakistani whatever) don't respect our culture, and the way we do things over here, and we are suppose to respect their culture when we go to their country...pah. They walk the streets in public in the UK wearing Burkas like it's the middle of Delhi or something, it's not on at all.

The money is all they care about, respecting everyone else, and hell even speaking basic english comes second to them.

wow, looks like we have another racist chav on the loose.
whats wrong with wearing a burkha in a non muslim country? ive been to Pakistan, noone asked my family members to remove their Christian cross's.
it should be illegal to be so narrow minded.
and why are you on the escapist, when you should be on a bus hassling minority's?

 

[Jazoni89]

She was saying out loud what we as unemployed British adults have been thinking in a long time.

No, I'm not trying to justify what she did because it was bang out of order, but mass unemployment due to asylum seeking is a real issue in the UK at the moment. There's literally no surprise that this has happened at all.

Feh. Unemployment is a global issue because there are just too goddamned many human beings on earth. Trying to pin it on people seeking asylum is little better than fat rednecks screaming that the Mexicans took their jobs.

My point is, blaming -other- people just trying to get by is bull. Blame rich corporate fuckers hoarding more money than they will ever need, or blame pretty much everyone opposed to birth control.

I could tell from not looking at your profile that you are not British.

The thing is Britain is too small of a country, and our immigration laws are very loose, so the fresh faced immagrants get support, and a lot of welfare from our government. While all of us working class are having a hard time to keep afloat, so everyone is feeling the pinch at moment, except for the insanely rich, and of course the immigrants.

It's not just work opportunities (as immigrants are cheap labour), it's everything, and to make matters worst these modern day immigrants (Polish, Pakistani whatever) don't respect our culture, and the way we do things over here, and we are suppose to respect their culture when we go to their country...pah. They walk the streets in public in the UK wearing Burkas like it's the middle of Delhi or something, it's not on at all.

The money is all they care about, respecting everyone else, and hell even speaking basic english comes second to them.

wow, looks like we have another racist chav on the loose.
whats wrong with wearing a burkha in a non muslim country? ive been to Pakistan, noone asked my family members to remove their Christian cross's.
it should be illegal to be so narrow minded.
and why are you on the escapist, when you should be on a bus hassling minority's?

Like i said, i crossed the line, got too deep, offended people, and such.

I'm sorry, now can we just lay this to rest before this turns uglier than it already has.

A lock thread is in order I think.

 

[Commissar Sae]

Whilst I hate this ignorant waste of organic material as much as the next guy, this shouldn't be illegal. Had she ranted on about how awful they were as human beings for any other reason, it wouldn't be, and that's racism in and of itself. Also, free speech should be a right reserved for every person on Earth.

Hate Speech isn't covered by Free Speech.

Like hell it's not. Everyone has a right to say what they believe, regardless of how screwed up the rest of the world may think it is. The KKK has marched on Washington without being harassed, and if they're given the right to to say that stuff, then everyone has a right to speak their mind. They have that right, they should have the good taste not to exercise it, but they SHOULD have it.

Again will repeat myself, US free speech laws only apply there. The rest of the world has limits on it, banning things like the KKK and the Westboro baptist church as they qualify as hate speech and are thus illegal in most of Europe and Canada. The US is one of the only places that doesn't put that Caveat on their free speech legislation.