Rage Cuts Single-Player When You Buy It Used

[Active Schizophrenic]

Actually I am a fan of any kind of DRM unless it is absolutely ridiculous (resident evil 3ds) because I feel I deserve some sort of honour for buying games new and not pirating because I do neither I think piracy is wrong and used games do hurt the industry and I really do think the only example of crappy DRM is the resident evil situation but what pisses me off is when you need an internet connection to play the single player of a game I did buy new.

That's stupid, I want to feel like I deserve a honor for buying a game new so I support DRM that treats me like I stole the game (Also this is about used game sales not pirating so your off bat there man). Let me tell you about Atlus a company who is no where as big as EA or Id or Nintendo but has a devoted fan base. For most games they release they have a first shipment bonus, where the first shipment you get a free bonus with your new game (and you don't have to pre-order or anything). Atlus is known for short print runs so these bonus are pretty much saying buy our game new and you get a nice gift cause odds are it's the only shipment we will make. Here is some of the games I bought from Atlus with the gifts for buying it new and the game cost the same as any other retail game (i.e. it wasn't 10 bucks extra for a limited edition).

Shin Megami Tensievil Summoner 2 (A limited edition box with a Jack Frost doll dressed as the main hero; Price 40 bucks when it came out which is the same price as most new PS2 games around that same time).

Radiant Histora(A Mini soundtrack; Price 35 bucks)

Inzuna: Legend of the Unemployed Ninja 2 (A mini poster; Price I believe 30 bucks)

Luminous Arc 2 (A mini soundtrack; Price 30 bucks)

Shin Megami Tensiersona 4 (A mini soundtrack (Or full I haven't opened it yet; Price 40 bucks)

Shin Megami Tensiersona (A full two disc soundtrack; Price 30 bucks)

Shin Megami Tensi: Strange Journey (A mini soundtrack, which was not burned right and they replaced for free; Price 35 bucks).

That's the games I have from them that I can remember a bonus for buying it new off the top of my head. And NISA does the same thing: Mana Kahmia 2 (I think the first one also buy I didn't get it new cause I couldn't find it) had a soundtrack (full I believe) and a poster, Ar Tonelico 2 and 3 came with a artbook and OST, and Atelier Rorona came witha hard cover artbook. The funny thing is, these games where not pre-orders they were thanks for buying the game new at the 50/60 dollar price they were at. And Disgaea 4 will have a few different versions in stores, a 50 dollar box with no goodies and a 60 dollar box with a figure. So your getting the game by itself for 10 bucks off and the figure for 10 bucks more, hey that's a honor right there.

In other words, your "honor" for buying a game new is just a way for publishers to screw you out of content and own your games, they don't give you anything when it's some online code you have to use.

Well see you tell me that DRM is screwing me out of content even though I have never been screwed out of content by buying new if YOU have I am sorry. but yes I can feel honour for buying new games when I have not been cheated before. Which seems to say that you are taking my personal opinion and applying it to everybody which isn't true, everybody plays games differently I feel that I have not been cheated by buying used games through their DRM because I don't play games on consoles that often and their is no used games market on PC and as for piracy which is rampant on the PC i do see it as stealing so I don't do it. And yes I do know the games developer Atlus and I have played their games they are just not my type of games and I don't play consoles all that much. Also thank for turning a intelligent response into a douche move. (also honour is spelled with a u in canada if the parenthesis were meant to correct that if not then it does not matter).

I didn't ask you if Atlus is your kind of game company or not (I could care less who your company of choice is), I was saying how Atlus is willing to give goodies to people for buying a game new and not charge extra. They are willing to give you extra's and not charged the special edition price, not give you a code saying you can have a in game thing for buying it new and only new. And how much is that honor worth it to you knowing that DRM is cracked by a single .exe file? And I haven't been screwed by DRM period (I even owned used PC games and have used guild wars account from a friend and they all play like I bought them myself). I like how just avoid the whole Atlus giving out all those nice freebies by injecting your own personal feelings for the companies games and not what they do to sell said games. And you're welcome I could care less where you're from and I wasn't correcting you at all, I put them in QUOTES for emphasis.

If you buy it used, you ain't supporting the developers, just like the pirates do. Don't see anything wrong with it, as long as this new little feature doesn't affect the legit buyers.

Heres my issue on that statement, if its such an issue, why don't they legally stop allowing people to buy it used. Its basically the worst type of DRM because I still bought the game, therefore, I should play its content as a whole, instead of a FUCKING game that locks all that away if I didn't buy it new.


Used games are not piracy. Piracy is basically to where NO money is spent, regardless of anything. With a used game, some still goes back to the publisher, but way less then what they should be getting.

Basically, publishers and Dev's in some cases are throwing hissie fits to fight an un-winnable war, it don't matter HOW hard you try, you can't sue every god damn pirater in the world, let alone fine ones who still bought your game. This is the literal reason consoles will die, because gamers from there will hop to PC because it became a first come, first serve type deal. I can only get 90% of the games content unless I get it new, on launch. As stupid as that sounds alone, it will happen, its inevitable, why? Because gamers are still taking this shit up the ass like a champ.

Guys, we really don't have to stand for this. Just get a gaming PC, and Steam or Origin, then you can buy whatever game you could ever want. DRM free.

....Steam is a form of DRM fyi. And now all console games use this stupid method, I agree with you gamers of consoles (including me) need to stop buying games that use any system like this. And if that means I miss out on mass effect 3 on my xbox...then so be it, I won't let my love of a series out weigh my basic principle rights to resale something legally. Also you kinda sound like you want people to just ditch consoles like a PC fan boy would say (not calling you one that's just how it came off to me, if that offended you well I won't say sorry but I'm not trying to call you one).

I'm pointing out that if this shit continues, it would be a better alternative then sticking with consoles. And no, I'm not telling people to ditch consoles, but if you want a game, upgrade your system and get the game... Also, Steam is not a type of DRM, since you don't actually get a different experience then someone who bought the game on launch since PC games are never used, there is no Date of Release Material. I like to stress up above, I'm just saying that it would be a better solution then sticking too consoles draconian DRM! You can watch Extra Credits episode titled Consoles are the new Coin Op for a better explanation. I'm glad you agreed with me. Don't call me a PC fan boy, just PC gamer. I don't call people Console fan boys, I call them Console Gamers.
In my original post, I do point out that its just a good alternative compared to dealing with the DRM, because publishers are throwing hissy fits, and only doing it to get what they want, ignore it, and it will go away.

I didn't call you PC fanboy one I said you came off as one, and Steam is a form of DRM dude a lot of games use Steamworks as a form of DRM. If you can sit there and say it isn't then wow, cause I talked to guys who LOVE steam and they say it's DRM. And it shouldn't matter what someone plays they are gamers, I can't respect a "gamer" who has to have a name for someone based on his choice of play. What am I a PC gamer I own a good number of PC games (at least 180), or am I a console gamer cause I own multiple consoles, or even a handheld gamer. No I am a gamer end of story.

I wasn't saying Atlus had anything to do with this by not arguing with your stance on extra goodies I was implying that that are a good move on Atlus's part but I think if people wouldn't just try and manipulate the industry to save a couple bucks on games they wouldn't have to do that and RAGE is just trying to make some money for their hard work and would rather not have people take advantage of that. Also when is said "(also honour is spelled with a u in canada if the parenthesis were meant to correct that if not then it does not matter)" hence the italics. again your being a douche I mean come on I'm not going to have a conversation if your just going to be condescending with posts that have differing opinions than you.

I'm the douche yet your the one trying to correct me just because I'm spelling with the way I learned how to spell in America. What the hell does it matter if I spell if as honour or honor you know what I mean, your the tool hear man.

DID YOU READ THE ITALICS!? I SAID IT DOESN'T MATTER WHICH WAY IT IS SPELLED!

 

[Still Life]

Yep that's why Infinity Ward went and made their own company, it was cause activision didn't pay what they owed even though the game sold a butt ton. They had to go make their own rules just to get the money they were owed, again it's the publishers not the devs who always make a big fuss over this.

Allegedly.

For this point to be valid, we -- the public -- will have to wait for litigation to run its course.

The courts will decide of they have to pay them or not, and from the court docs that was released it seems they should be owed the money.

The courts found that there were enough facts to support a trial. Nothing has been determined yet.

 

[Continuity]

Simple solution. All the larger game publishers should club together and buy joint ownership of gamestop.

Problem solved.

 

[mythicdawn12]

You guys were considering buying this game before this crap?
Really? It looked really bad.
It was like Call of Duty and Fallout 3 had relations with Metroid.
That may sound awesome to some of you but it's not.

 

[vxicepickxv]

I had no idea that I could have cared less about this game before this announcement. I guess I was wrong.

 

[Still Life]

Very good. You get a gold star for understanding legal jurisprudence.

Why, thank you

As a side note, I find it highly hypoctricial on the part of some gamers to say that we are "just like every form of media" when the topic of government censorship comes up. But when it's another issue, we're some sort of special flower.

In relation to other media-entertainment focused industries, I think there are certainly some parallels. However, I feel that juxtaposing and comparing the games industry to other (separate) industries to serve an argument is fallacious.

Hell, I buy most all my games new anyways. But I'll be damned if someone is tellilng me how I can and cannot legally aquire a product.

Well, it is still legal to sell used games (at least in Australia), but it looks like developers and publishers are trying to regulate cash-flow in a way that is more favorable to them. At least you haven't gone into some nebulous an unsubstantiated argument on how it's your Right to demand things from companies. Rights are not absolute.

 

[AssassinFisH]

Fair play to developers who are fighting back against used sales. I wouldn't want to go to work all day, just for my wages to be handed to someone else. Why should they?

 

[BabyRaptor]

When asked about the section that would be cut for aftermarket buyers, Willits said, "[M]ost people never even see it. I can tell you, some people will buy Rage, download that, and still never set foot in those things."

I'm sorry...If so few people ever see it that this man isn't actually lying, then what's the point in blocking it off to act as a deterrent?

 

[Kl4pp5tuhl]

Meh, I'll just stick to Minecraft for the time being then.

Give it about 2 years and the full game will be in a GOTY Edition on Steam with everything on it for half or even a third of the original price.

Still haven't bought Dead Space 2 either, should drop in price soon by now.

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

Very good. You get a gold star for understanding legal jurisprudence.

Why, thank you

As a side note, I find it highly hypoctricial on the part of some gamers to say that we are "just like every form of media" when the topic of government censorship comes up. But when it's another issue, we're some sort of special flower.

In relation to other media-entertainment focused industries, I think there are certainly some parallels. However, I feel that juxtaposing and comparing the games industry to other (separate) industries to serve an argument is fallacious.

Hell, I buy most all my games new anyways. But I'll be damned if someone is tellilng me how I can and cannot legally aquire a product.

Well, it is still legal to sell used games (at least in Australia), but it looks like developers and publishers are trying to regulate cash-flow in a way that is more favorable to them. At least you haven't gone into some nebulous an unsubstantiated argument how it's your right to demand things from companies. Rights are not absolute.

You know what's funny? I find most people aren't against used sales. Because that entails quite a few things, such as being stuck with a product you no longer want/didn't like/gave up on. Were it not for used sales, I couldn't have gotten my money back for FF XIII.

No, what most people are against is places like Gamestop selling the game used a week after lauch when in conficts with potentinal new sales. I guess I can see that. But then you have to remember that, just like piracy, you've no proff those sales would have existed in the first place. If you trade in a game towards it, and get it used with a card, a $60 new game becomes a $35-40 used game. That's quite a difference. That's being able to buy three games rather than 2

I actually spoke to an Econ professor who was also a gamer about this. His solution? Cut spending, sell games for less, give people a bounus for buying new, and make fewer games. If a game requires over one million people to buy it new just to break even, something wrong is going on. Secondly, $60 is a bit high of an asking price for almost all new games. Price acorindly. Thirdly, if people got a discount on future DLC when they bought new, not only would that increase people buying new, it would also encourage them to hold on to the disk for future content, and fewer used copies would be floating around. It doesn't have to be much. Making 4 DLC packs 7.50 if you bought new (and, say $10 if you bought used) would still net you $30 at the end. Finally, if pubishers made fewer games, they wouldn't over-saturate the public. Again, I'm simplyfing these points.

 

[GrizzlerBorno]

In fact I STILL don't get how people can genuinely separate it from bona fide Piracy;

Because 2nd hand games sales are not piracy, plain and simple.

Game developers want me to shell out the full price for a game then Guarentee me a single player experience I wont finish in a matter of hours.

This is why I payed full price day of release for games like fallout 3/new vegas/ Grand theft auto 3/vice sity/san andreas/4/ orange box.

Why i'm shelling out full price for skyrim day of release and why I paid £10 2nd hand for COD black ops.

So it's perfectly fine......because you say so? That's the reason? Why did no one tell me this before. It's so simple.
Okay well can you just declare Pirating shorter games to be absolutely fine (plain and simple) as well? That would save me a lot of money.

Sarcasm aside, I don't see any difference between your justification and pirates saying "I wasn't going to buy it anyway, since it's so short. So I dl'd it"

I'll reply to you in the same way anyone would reply to them: Just DON'T play Games you aren't willing/able to buy! (because they are guaranteed to have a short SP exp) You say you genuinely buy RPGs because they have a lot of value for money? So just STICK to those. Why do you HAVE to steal from FPS developers at all? If it's not worth your money don't buy it. Plain and Simple.

 

[Torrasque]

Note to self: boycott every single fucking game that does this bullshit, no matter what game it is.

 

[JohnnyDelRay]

Well...it looks like my budget for gaming this year takes yet ANOTHER cut. Who put this asshole Tim in charge anyway

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

In fact I STILL don't get how people can genuinely separate it from bona fide Piracy;

Because 2nd hand games sales are not piracy, plain and simple.

Game developers want me to shell out the full price for a game then Guarentee me a single player experience I wont finish in a matter of hours.

This is why I payed full price day of release for games like fallout 3/new vegas/ Grand theft auto 3/vice sity/san andreas/4/ orange box.

Why i'm shelling out full price for skyrim day of release and why I paid £10 2nd hand for COD black ops.

So it's perfectly fine......because you say so? That's the reason? Why did no one tell me this before. It's so simple.
Okay well can you just declare Pirating shorter games to be absolutely fine (plain and simple) as well? That would save me a lot of money.

Sarcasm aside, I don't see any difference between your justification and pirates saying "I wasn't going to buy it anyway, since it's so short. So I dl'd it"

I'll reply to you in the same way anyone would reply to them: Just DON'T play Games you aren't willing/able to buy! (because they are guaranteed to have a short SP exp) You say you genuinely buy RPGs because they have a lot of value for money? So just STICK to those. Why do you HAVE to steal from FPS developers at all? If it's not worth your money don't buy it. Plain and Simple.

Allow me to try to explain the difference.

One is 100% legal. The other is not.

One is protected under consumer rights law. The other is not.

One results in one copy of the game for every purchace. The other can produce thousands.

Also, "steal" is a very harsh, and, quite untrue word.

 

[Torrasque]

I actually spoke to an Econ professor who was also a gamer about this. His solution? Cut spending, sell games for less, give people a bounus for buying new, and make fewer games. If a game requires over one million people to buy it new just to break even, something wrong is going on. Secondly, $60 is a bit high of an asking price for almost all new games. Price acorindly. Thirdly, if people got a discount on future DLC when they bought new, not only would that increase people buying new, it would also encourage them to hold on to the disk for future content, and fewer used copies would be floating around. It doesn't have to be much. Making 4 DLC packs 7.50 if you bought new (and, say $10 if you bought used) would still net you $30 at the end. Finally, if pubishers made fewer games, they wouldn't over-saturate the public. Again, I'm simplyfing these points.

Holy shit that would actually be amazing.
Rather than slap the hands of people who buy it used, it would be infinitely better to butter up the people who buy it new.
Not only are you giving to the group of people who are diehard fans, interested in it right away, and willing to pay for it at extra cost, but you make people less likely to buy it used because they want extra shinies.
And if theres one thing I know about gamers, its that they like shinies.

 

[Phototoxin]

If you buy it used, you ain't supporting the developers, just like the pirates do. Don't see anything wrong with it, as long as this new little feature doesn't affect the legit buyers.

If I buy a secondhand car I'm not supporting the manufacturer...

 

[Vrach]

Huh. That's definitely doing it wrong, from a "I want to screw a used game buyer over" standpoint. It's easy to pirate's a game singleplayer, which is why companies tend to protect the multiplayer. This way people can just buy the game used, pirate the singleplayer and they'll get the whole experience.

Someone at id didn't really think this through.

 

[Sixcess]

Wow. So much rage (no pun intended.)

As a PC gamer I couldn't give two shits about the secondhand market, and this strikes me as a lot more ethical than day one DLC (though I'm sure that'll be announced later.) At least this way people who pay full price are getting the fullgame.

 

[Aprilgold]

I said CAME OFF AS A PC FANBOY AND I SAID I AM NOT TRYING TO MEAN THAT IN ANY WAY OFFENSIVE. And steam is DRM, I can share any console game I own baring online passes yet can't do that with steam. ANY METHOD used to make sure you can't share a game or product is A FORM OF DRM FROM DIAL A PIRATE TO STEAMWORKS. I am done talking about this crap, you know I'm done steam in a nut shell is drm. Any game you buy is linked to your account and you can't share it, they control what you can or can't do with it. Is steam bad drm NO (I prefer steam works over Securom) but it's still D R M.

I wrote a long thing in response, but really stopped caring, anyways, to respond, I never said anything to give you the hint that you accused me of something or that I was angry at you, so you can always cool down.
Basically, Steam is not DRM since its not doing two of its main goals, preventing piracy. [you can move files, copy and paste, modify, and many more options to share these games. You can backup game files and then just move those to a specified folder. Or give your friends a demo of these games, with full game download gear for many products.] And as covered before, no used copy fighting.

On topic now.
Rage, I'm not getting it for anything but PC because its DRM is pretty draconian, and thats saying something. To make sense, its a open world game, so removing something, even something like sewers, is missing out on loot, XP and potential rare mobs, that can't be seen outside that area. Publishers, stop with the hissy fits for once, your not doing anything but treating your customers like hell for no reason, when you, yourselves know it.