Review: Star Ocean: The Last Hope

[Dectilon]

A genre is not dead or dying or worthless because you happen to not like it any more.

No, that happens when sales go down... which they have unless I'm mistaken :/

I can agree on one thing: this wasn't really the place to discuss whether or not a genre is archaic or not, that's its own article. However I do think the criticsm is still valid when discussing such things as acting and overarching plot. I don't think having a story filled with cliché is what defines the genre...

 

[Bad Neighbour]

Not sure about this... the game seems to play a hell of alot like Tales of Symphonia (no random battles, real time crazy beat-em-up combat, 3/4 guys fighting at once etc), which was absolutely brilliant, and looks like a done-up phantasy star online. Two of my favourite gamecube games (not sure which circle of hell i'm going to for that one). ...Although it's so similar to ToS that it's kinda uncomfortable, and ToS's voice acting from my memory was quite alot better than that, and they had many more end of battle quotes (although they should have gone the FFX route and thown end of battle quotes off a cliff).

..Still, that game didn't look that bad at all, and me criticising something for being too much like ToS isn't really criticism.

 

[John Funk]

The difference between long cutscenes in Persona 4 and long cutscenes in SO4 is that the cutscenes and dialogue in P4 actively requires input from the player. There is much more of an emphasis on the player's input - how you handle your Social Links, how you build up your stats like Courage and Expression, etc... rather than in SO4, where you are passively watching characters I couldn't possibly care less about go through an incredibly generic story.

P4 actually involves the player more than a cursory amount. Star Ocean 4 is essentially watching a movie - a bad movie.

I loved JRPGs back in the day. I just feel that gaming has moved beyond such a static form of storytelling. Look at Virgil's post earlier in the thread - he's a fan of JRPGs too, and he hated SO4.

Persona 4 is a perfect example of a JRPG that has evolved. It's a good JRPG - and a good game. Star Ocean 4 is not.

 

[Dectilon]

Actually, doesn't P4 still only give you the choice of either getting all the best stuff or not getting all the best stuff? :/

It's like, you can pick the wrong dialog choice for shits and giggles, but then you need to reload to get the maximum amount of courage points or whatever.

 

[SargentToughie]

The difference between long cutscenes in Persona 4 and long cutscenes in SO4 is that the cutscenes and dialogue in P4 actively requires input from the player. There is much more of an emphasis on the player's input - how you handle your Social Links, how you build up your stats like Courage and Expression, etc... rather than in SO4, where you are passively watching characters I couldn't possibly care less about go through an incredibly generic story.

P4 actually involves the player more than a cursory amount. Star Ocean 4 is essentially watching a movie - a bad movie.

I loved JRPGs back in the day. I just feel that gaming has moved beyond such a static form of storytelling. Look at Virgil's post earlier in the thread - he's a fan of JRPGs too, and he hated SO4.

Persona 4 is a perfect example of a JRPG that has evolved. It's a good JRPG - and a good game. Star Ocean 4 is not.

Oh, by the way, did you know that you could skip every cutscene?

It's true

 

[yeah_so_no]

Harhol, I agree with you wholeheartedly.

I feel like I'm completely in the minority in actually liking both cut scenes and the linear progression of JRPG storyline. If I didn't, I wouldn't play JRPGs. But oh, look, still playing.

And as for the voice acting vs spending the money on other stuff, I like voice acting--but then, I haven't come across any truly wretched voice acting, like the SO4 was.

 

[Nazrel]

P4 actually involves the player more than a cursory amount. Star Ocean 4 is essentially watching a movie.

It's interesting that you make the comparison with Persona 4 because it, too, is like a movie, more so than any JRPG in recent memory. For starters, the intro lasts three hours, and there are several (unskippable) cutscenes in the game which last longer than sixty minutes. The big reveal in December lasts ninety minutes if you include the parts where all you can do is go to bed. These scenes are made more extreme by the complete lack of action on screen, with characters simply standing around and talking, barely even moving their arms.

The player involvement in S.Links is minimal at best, allowing you to stunt your progress with the token asshole answer or choose the obviously signposted "good" answer and level up at the normal rate. Not really much of a choice. Multiple choice answers in cutscenes give you a slightly different line of dialogue from an NPC... that's it (until the ending at least). Add in the animé archetype characters (perhaps excluding Kanji) & the rigidly old-school battle system and you have a JRPG as traditional as the rest. But, crucially, a good traditional JRPG! Now I'm not saying Star Ocean 4 is great, don't get me wrong, I'm just saying it isn't necessarily bad simply because of what it is.

The social links are not that cut and dry (Ok,A few scenes can be.), I spent many a time pondering what one to choose.

Plus there's interaction through the entire game. You are trying to solve a mystery, you make analysis and go over clues, some choice's will have an impact on the ending.

Near the end you, with out being led by the nose to it,are expected to name the murderer from a list of everyone ever met or mentioned it the entire game.

If you have not been paying attention you are getting a bad ending.

Plus there's the we are giving you no help with this stuff trivia questions from school.

I wouldn't call the battle system that old school either.

 

[Dectilon]

For me the issue isn't cutscenes or linear progression really. My problem is when they are terrible. I mean, in non-linear games there's sort of an excuse when the script gets kind of awkward because the dialog has to connect to the overarcing storyline no matter what choice you make, but it's usually still better than many of the newer jRPGs I've given a go.

Some people are annoyed with turn-based combat, and I do think they are somewhat correct that the traditional combat system is a bit too slow and needs to evolve, but that's not the real issue. The real issue is the recycling of characters, themes, entire fucking plotlines and to, on top of that, present it badly!

I'm still hopeful for FF13 I have to admit, but if it's anything like Star Ocean 4 here I will be incredibly disappointed. Using stereotypes is okay sometimes, at least if you add your own twist to them (and no, having your character like ketchup on eggs or whatever is NOT a clever twist), but if the entire cast are cardboard cutouts from Recycled Cardboard Inc, then its set up for failure.

 

[Doug]

Star Ocean 4 is essentially watching a movie... I just feel that gaming has moved beyond such a static form of storytelling.

But these are your own personal preferences with regards to gaming as a whole, so they shouldn't influence a review of a traditional JRPG.

I have to stop you right there - EVERY review is subject to personal opinion. There is ABSOLUTELY no such thing as an objective review. Ever!

Until the day when they come up with perfect AI who can devise a mathematical formula for 'quality' or 'worth' of game, this will always be the case.

 

[Xerosch]

So now it's official. (Good) story driven gaming belongs to the era of the SNES, PS1 and with some exception to the PS2. No wonder I'm becoming a retro gamer...

I bought the Sega Genesis Ultimate Collection a few weeks ago and must say it's worth for the Phantasy Star games alone. I found myself enjoying almost every of the 40-45 games on the DVD more than the current releases I bought for my NextGen Consoles.

Why can't there be a real successor to really good games? Xenogears, Vagrant Story and the Chrono series have so much potential in every respect (characters, storytelling, music, setting) and yet there was never a continuation. Well... on second thought... maybe it's good this way, I'd rather see no sequel than a Star Ocean 4.

 

[protogenxl]

The full list of main character name choices

Slab Bulkhead
Fridge Largemeat
Punt Speedchunk
Butch Deadlift
Bold Bigflank

Splint Chesthair
Flint Ironstag
Bolt Vanderhuge
Thick McRunfast
Blast Hardcheese

Buff Drinklots
Trunk Slamchest
Fist Rockbone
Stump Beefgnaw
Smash Lampjaw

Punch Rockgroin
Buck Plankchest
Stump Chunkman
Dirk Hardpeck
Rip Steakface

Slate Slabrock
Crud Bonemeal
Brick Hardmeat
Rip Sidecheek
Punch Sideiron

Gristle McThornBody
Slake Fistcrunch
Buff Hardback
Bob Johnson
Blast Thickneck

Crunch Buttsteak
Slab Squatthrust
Lump Beefrock
Touch Rustrod
Reef Blastbody

Big McLargeHuge
Smoke Manmuscle
Beat Punchbeef
Pack Blowfist
Roll Fizzlebeef

 

[Dectilon]

I hope you didn't just bring up Obsidian as an example of well written stories....

I hope you didn't just confuse Obsidian with Bethesda

 

[Farseli]

Jeez, I must have horrible taste then because I love SO4. The voice acting only bugs me with very few characters. The dialog makes me laugh. I love the scenes with Welch. God...I think they made this game for me and everyone else should just stay away. And then the whole thing with the main character starting off really cool and able to defend himself. And I can see this as a role playing game. You are playing a role. You are not making up a role. So yes, they were going to rail-road you into playing a certain role. This isn't a "devise your own role and play that" game, it is a "here is your role and now play it" game.

Also...I'm not certain but I remember seeing voice options in the menu. I'm pretty sure you can turn those off.

 

[ChrisUS]

I'm usually annoyed by voice acting, but not so much in this game (yes, I'm a sick person but I thought Lymle was a riot).

I wasn't bothered so much by the battle success quotes so much either. What was annoying was the amount of crap you have to get through at the end of a battle (I think the trophies for each character is a nice element). I hit "A" so fast to get through all of it, at times I would miss something I actually want to know about. I'd rather there was a log of all that, give me a small summary screen, hit "A" and the battle is over.

The graphics were great, battle mechanics were pretty slick. Item creation was interesting, but "inventing" recipes was a horrible experience. As was collecting supplies.. you had to walk everywhere (there's always hammering the sprint button - yay).

The worst part? Disc swapping. Not the fact that they needed 3 discs because of the HUGE cut scenes, but traveling back to other planets demanded a disc swapping. Lost Odyssey had multiple discs and switching areas didn't require disc swapping (data/code was spread evenly over their discs).

Inventory - only 20 of any item?

Character affinity. I'm not a fan.

Welch... she was so over the top. The best line -- "Is this woman having an episode?" I fell off the couch laughing.

My "must have" feature: No random encounters. Although at times this didn't matter as the monsters were sometimes too large to just run by... and there were items you could obtain that kept you from getting "surprised" - nice touch. Some Final Fantasy games that had random encounters had items that turned that annoying feature off. There are so many times you are trying to figure out a puzzle and random encounters just destroy the experience.

Overall, an enjoyable experience (other than the "disc is dirty" and getting booted from the game, but that's the console).

 

[finalfantasyrules77]

dude your boring but you do just come out and say the truth so not that bad

and the battle system looks great (as usaul)
but haha i know wat you mean with the same victory line haha

 

[The Steel Ninja]

Hey. First time poster, long time...I can't say long time reader, as I have only been reading the site for a short while now. But I just wanted to comment on this review and JRPGs in general.

First, I picked the game up recently because I've been starved for a good console RPG. I have to admit, I did at least give Mass Effect a spin, but BioWare isn't a godly developer in my eyes, I feel KOTOR is vastly overrated and Mass Effect bored me to tears, but that's another story for another day. Suffice to say, JRPGs are lacking in innovation, but WRPGs aren't perfect either.

With that in mind, it doesn't bother me that this is the same story and same save-the-world (or, in this case, universe) deal as before. One of the main selling points for an RPG for me is the story, and so far it's cliche, but you can only do so much with a linear formula in a genre where the game has to end at some point, thereby forcing the hand of developers in terms of story development. The other main appeal for me is the battle system, and SO4's is an improvement over 3's. It's faster, more user-friendly, and the annoying MP deaths that plagued the last game's combat are no longer there, thank God.

So what I'm saying is that longtime JRPG fans will probably eat this up, and those who are either burned out on them or don't care will be less-than-impressed. I used to really enjoy Final Fantasy, for example, but the more recent entries have disappointed me. FFXII, IMO, was horribly paced, had zero character development, and tried to cover for its weak plot with political crap.

On another subject, I noticed someone mentioned Pokemon. Now, as a person who has recently gotten back into the games, I can say that it is in no way typical or even indicative of JRPG standards. For one, you are not limited to a preset amount of characters -- if one party member isn't doing the job anymore, go out and catch something better, which is nice for those who hate useless party members. Also, the story really doesn't matter, as it's the exact same basic flow in all the games -- what matters is the fighting, which is fairly fun unless you have something against cute critters beating the snot out of one another. In a number of ways, Pokemon is an odd beast in the world of JRPGs.

One more note: the complaints about the lack of innovation? They don't hold up, really. The video game industry is slow to doing things completely differently than they have been done, and it takes a long time for something new to become a "standard" feature for a genre, so I don't think this one holds much water.

 

[Sylocat]

If the genre doesn't evolve, it deserves to go extinct.

Not sure I follow you on this one. Honestly now, the FPS genre hasn't evolved that much over the years either. The graphics got flashier, the animations are nicer, some of them have a few neat features that others don't. All of this is true for JRPGs as well. But just like JRPGs, the real meat and potatoes of the FPS experienced hasn't changed much over time. This is the basic formula of just about every FPS ever released: You, the player, run around and shoot things. But I don't hear people saying that the FPS genre is a relic. Why is that?

Because I think the FPS genre *has* been evolving. It's been experimenting with new ways to tell stories (see: Portal, Half-Life, Bioshock, CoD4), along with occasional new gameplay ideas. As JRPGs have evolved, most of them have just become more movielike. In this case, you might as well just be watching a bad sci-fi movie every five steps.

Problem is, you can say these exact same things about any genre you happen to dislike. In which case it basically boils down to, "This change in the formula doesn't change my lack of interest in the genre, therefore the genre is stagnant."

You can claim that for every Persona or KH, there's a dozen Star Oceans. Swell. Then I can say that for every Portal or Bioshock, there's fifteen Halo clones.

Most games in a formulaic genre aren't going to pioneer new innovations in their formulas, and when one does, those innovations might not even catch on. Portal is one of the most popular games of all time, but I don't see the other game developers jumping on that bandwagon, most of them are still just making the same grayish-brown Grizzled Space Marine? shooters.