This is partly why I don't play RTS games, also most AI seems to be able to 'see the matrix' whilst we just have to rely on what we can see and hear.cool13011 said:
Does any in game AI actual have situational awareness or does it just mimic it?
Ridiculous AI
- Thread starter richasr
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Does any in game AI actual have situational awareness or does it just mimic it?
I'd have to say Empire Earth. I always found it amazing how the AI could build all those towers around their island with only one villager mining for the stone needed. Just to figure it out I used a cheat to remove fog of war and saw the guy was actually having hardly anyone farming/mining etc. Yet when I nuked his rear the aftermath always states he gathered more resources. Now, being the guy that fortifies and builds a booming economy, exploiting every resource in sight till all that's left is a dead waste, I felt this was a bit strange to say the least. Edging close to the unfair I always wonder what the AI's villagers were injected with to become such supreme grinding bots.
Not sure how many of you have played it. IMO the hardest AI I have seen, at least in a RTS would be a supreme bot on Supreme Commander. I think I am somewhat of a good strategist, But those bastards kick my as again and again. I once tried me and 3 Challenging bots, vs 2 supreme bots (4v2) and it was only 15 mins in before they started launching nukes at me.
If you're referring to the "vanilla" supcom, no, the supreme AI was a joke, killing a couple by yourself was trivially easy in comparison to regular online play.
FA changed things a fair bit though, I never tried a skirmish in it but I hear it got a lot harder. The essential problem with RTS AI opponents is their ability to multitask - as another poster said, they're simply omnipresent where a human can only do one thing as a time. As a consequence it's rare for them to create a situation you can take advantage of - human players can be drawn into over-extending themselves, making invalid force assessments or simply attention-overloaded by multiple simultaneous engagements. AI can't be beaten in this fashion, you have to rely on its failure to recognize a poor decision on its part.
Usually the easiest way to do that in a generic fashion is to find some way of building a position the AI likes to attack a lot - preferably not near your main base. At that point, you stack it up with force multipliers, then tech like crazy while the AI burns resource trying to take a point it doesn't realize is unassailable/far too costly. Figuring out how to do that for each individual game/ai doesn't usually take very long.
FA changed things a fair bit though, I never tried a skirmish in it but I hear it got a lot harder. The essential problem with RTS AI opponents is their ability to multitask - as another poster said, they're simply omnipresent where a human can only do one thing as a time. As a consequence it's rare for them to create a situation you can take advantage of - human players can be drawn into over-extending themselves, making invalid force assessments or simply attention-overloaded by multiple simultaneous engagements. AI can't be beaten in this fashion, you have to rely on its failure to recognize a poor decision on its part.
Usually the easiest way to do that in a generic fashion is to find some way of building a position the AI likes to attack a lot - preferably not near your main base. At that point, you stack it up with force multipliers, then tech like crazy while the AI burns resource trying to take a point it doesn't realize is unassailable/far too costly. Figuring out how to do that for each individual game/ai doesn't usually take very long.
The one AI that really pissed me off recently was the Patrol Boats in Crysis.
Those little shits always seem to hit you from 500 yards away with its telescopic\x-ray vision with the pinpoint aim bot. And to throw you into a loop, you can't hit them unless you have a sniper rifle since it's always the RunNGun pussy tactics they use so much and the boat never sinks unless you use a rocket launcher which could be used for tanks or jeeps.
Those little shits always seem to hit you from 500 yards away with its telescopic\x-ray vision with the pinpoint aim bot. And to throw you into a loop, you can't hit them unless you have a sniper rifle since it's always the RunNGun pussy tactics they use so much and the boat never sinks unless you use a rocket launcher which could be used for tanks or jeeps.
I fire my rifle from cover to lure them in, go to cloaked mode, and take out the gunner when they're closer. This usually causes the driver of the boat to come ashore, which is a nice little piece of A.I/scripting IMO as there's not much point in him driving around with a dead gunner.DennoCoil said:
Deus Ex on realistic. The AI doesn't get any harder really, but you get a hell of a lot weaker. The AI was decent (RE: they'd make some attempt at cover and run if you shoot them, if they know where you are they'll return fire). But it became alot harder if you died the instant one saw you. (Realistic mode: one shot one kill, more or less)
I might have just thought it was hard because my "strategy" for an fps is run in and shoot stuff. Apparently you need to be Snake, Sam Fisher, or Rikimaru(Ryu Hayabusa maybe) to beat the game on realistic.
I might have just thought it was hard because my "strategy" for an fps is run in and shoot stuff. Apparently you need to be Snake, Sam Fisher, or Rikimaru(Ryu Hayabusa maybe) to beat the game on realistic.
earth defense force 2017 op inferno
its not that its not posible its just that cover has no use nothing has any use becouse the spiders are cheaters(they shoot thru walls walk thru walls and jump 50000000 feet into the air just to land opon your head all at the same time and get you encased in spiderweb(witch aparently has the properties of wire with nitroglycerin on it becouse if you tutch it you almost instantly die oyea and they shoot like 500 gazilion wires at the same time in an area of about 300 meters in diamite killing everything inside(that is the players npcs have around 100000 life whilst you only have max 9999)
its not that its not posible its just that cover has no use nothing has any use becouse the spiders are cheaters(they shoot thru walls walk thru walls and jump 50000000 feet into the air just to land opon your head all at the same time and get you encased in spiderweb(witch aparently has the properties of wire with nitroglycerin on it becouse if you tutch it you almost instantly die oyea and they shoot like 500 gazilion wires at the same time in an area of about 300 meters in diamite killing everything inside(that is the players npcs have around 100000 life whilst you only have max 9999)
It's amusing the notion of Easy AI in Battlefront. I can stand there and look at the enemy, staring At me for a good 8 seconds before they start to shoot me. Then They stop. Then shoot me again. Then I get bored and I Kill them. It's a wonder that they an even achive kills.
I think it not being out yet is a big part of that - you can make as many claims as you want, but you need to put it in the public domain before people will take it seriously. As far as Euphoria goes, its reasonably uninteresting in terms of AI. I don't know specific implementation details for Euphoria, but the results you get could easily be duplicated by taking a Natural Motion style ragdoll and slapping a behavior-based system on top of it to pick which of the emotional responses to trigger. Its a good trick that will make for a very immersive game world, but its much more Artificial Emotion than Artificial Intelligence. That said, if there is actual AI in it as smart as what you are describing, then that is going to rock bells.cool13011 said:
Edit - since Euphoria is NaturalMotion's own engine, this is probably a really good guess at how it works to drive the behavioural responses in The Force Unleashed.
I believe this is a hefty overstatement. The biggest flaw with the RTS genre's AI is most definitely the speed with which they can process data, react to situations, and issue orders but I think we are long past the time of flat-out cheating by computer-controlled opponents. I've been playing a lot of Sins of a Solar Empire lately, and whether or not the AI can be deemed to be "smart", its definitely not cheating in terms of resources or perfect knowledge of the world, and I can't think of a game I've played recently where I even suspected that to be the case.
In Starcraft & Warcraft, the AI does not have unlimited resources and you can defeat him by going fullscale offensive attack against him. The thing that differs a human from AI in RTS is that the AI controlls everything indually and instantly. If it wanted, it could probably make a movie starring itself as the main villian, the main hero and the civilian cannon fodders. But the AI in Warcraft 3 was horrible. Not because it was bad, but because it aimed to get an hero right away. The heroes are a fun addition, but for RTS, they really aren't... They ruined it really since like one hero can kill an whole army <_<
Star Wars Battlefront 2 has hilarius AI. I always play that game in hardest difficulty and it isn't harder then playing Easy really. Things really get fun when you play "Hunt" and end up on Endor planet with all the Ewoks since the Scout Troopers aim is like dropping a tomato to the ground and MISS it! They litterary throw granades all over the place, blowing themselves and each other up all the time.
AvP 1 have one of my favorite AI. Surely it isn't smart (marines panic almost instnatly and almost always) but it's an explorer type. It will litterary explore the whole level to find you. For example, my favorite level is the bonus level which was also the demo level "Invasion" which exists for all 3 races. But the fun part is to play it as an Alien, then cheat so you throw out like 50-100 Alien, Predalien, Preatorian bots. You just smack them all out into the ventshaft there at the start. Then you go to the Predator start area on the level and spawn a Predator bot. Then you throw out some more Marines at spots with tougher weapons and such. Then you wait (god mode of course) for like 5min before walking slowy over the whole level and seeing how it has gone for them. The aliens will most likely have killed of the majority of humans (and many of themselves since they like to hug Sentry guns and jump into fans), the humans will walk around, panic from time to time and shoot at stuff. The Predator however, may have walked all the way from where you put him out, to the top of the level, and down again, hunting everything on the level. I opened up a door at the top (auto-open) and as they opened, the Predator was butching two Aliens with his spear, poked ones head of, then sliced the other in half then wrist-bladed an attacking Predalien to death, then he charged me <_<
Appart from that, the AI in AvP1 really scares me sometimes.. Quiet often actually. Some Aliens scream constantly, but some will sneak up behind you and bite you which usually makes you jump your chair, turn around, and die from his bitchslap as they do sometimes, or his tail, or another bite. Munch..
When speaking of Redicilus IMBA AI, I'm suprised no one has brought up Shao Kahn on the hardest Difficulty or Noob Saibot or any of the Mortal Kombat games because they were just redicilus. They charged you instantly and bam, you were dead.
And also, the Original Rainbow Six.
You look into a room and someone from the other side shots a clear headshot right through your nose from 900 yards perfect aim NATURALLY like THE Yathzee would say. And this is how your whole TEAM died because he shot them INSTANTLY.
Star Wars Battlefront 2 has hilarius AI. I always play that game in hardest difficulty and it isn't harder then playing Easy really. Things really get fun when you play "Hunt" and end up on Endor planet with all the Ewoks since the Scout Troopers aim is like dropping a tomato to the ground and MISS it! They litterary throw granades all over the place, blowing themselves and each other up all the time.
AvP 1 have one of my favorite AI. Surely it isn't smart (marines panic almost instnatly and almost always) but it's an explorer type. It will litterary explore the whole level to find you. For example, my favorite level is the bonus level which was also the demo level "Invasion" which exists for all 3 races. But the fun part is to play it as an Alien, then cheat so you throw out like 50-100 Alien, Predalien, Preatorian bots. You just smack them all out into the ventshaft there at the start. Then you go to the Predator start area on the level and spawn a Predator bot. Then you throw out some more Marines at spots with tougher weapons and such. Then you wait (god mode of course) for like 5min before walking slowy over the whole level and seeing how it has gone for them. The aliens will most likely have killed of the majority of humans (and many of themselves since they like to hug Sentry guns and jump into fans), the humans will walk around, panic from time to time and shoot at stuff. The Predator however, may have walked all the way from where you put him out, to the top of the level, and down again, hunting everything on the level. I opened up a door at the top (auto-open) and as they opened, the Predator was butching two Aliens with his spear, poked ones head of, then sliced the other in half then wrist-bladed an attacking Predalien to death, then he charged me <_<
Appart from that, the AI in AvP1 really scares me sometimes.. Quiet often actually. Some Aliens scream constantly, but some will sneak up behind you and bite you which usually makes you jump your chair, turn around, and die from his bitchslap as they do sometimes, or his tail, or another bite. Munch..
When speaking of Redicilus IMBA AI, I'm suprised no one has brought up Shao Kahn on the hardest Difficulty or Noob Saibot or any of the Mortal Kombat games because they were just redicilus. They charged you instantly and bam, you were dead.
And also, the Original Rainbow Six.
You look into a room and someone from the other side shots a clear headshot right through your nose from 900 yards perfect aim NATURALLY like THE Yathzee would say. And this is how your whole TEAM died because he shot them INSTANTLY.
Hm, let's see.. bad Ai eh.
C&C RA skirmish: let's build firetowers everywhere in the base, cash well spend
Far cry: the chick you had to escort, "let's run in guns blazing while they haven't seen us yet from a mile away"
HL2: let's stand next to the flammable barrel whilst taking potshots in the open with a pistol, yes I'm looking at you valve. I miss the (excellent) marines ai from hl1, at least I had a good laugh now and then when they would throw a grenade only to have it fall back down on their heads and explode.
AVP1: marines had none, except for shooting a pulse rifle grenade point blank killing themselves as well
Stronghold crusader: let's only build spearman and really really really crappy castles with strange placed empty towers everywhere ( you had to put in the pig, wolf or richard for even a chance of somebody actually attacking )
COH: agreed on the spuma spam, what the hell?
The new turok game ( demo ): I'm lost, don't know where to go. Only to find my teammate standing behind me saying "let's go, what are you doing, follow me!!" over and over while not moving at all making it impossible to follow in the first place.
As for unfair AI, almost every game has this.
Call of duty 1: hardest mode. Every rifle infantrymen is a trained sniper, no health boxes what so ever. Many quickloads ensued, finished it though.
Cod4: Ai throwing 134314556053578 grenades at you, running for you whilst ignoring your teammates, etc. Just very bad ai, where is this in the reviews?
Worms on the xbox arcade: come on already!!! Nobody can shoot a bazooka THAT GOOD
BF, any version: bots+rpg/bazooka's are insane. I also remember a time where a bot in bf2 shot my chopper down with a 1 second burst from a 50cal buggy, edge of the viewdistance.
Max Payne: how many bullets can some guys take? Thankgod for the M79.
Some other games I can't remember but there are plenty of times AI pisses the hell outta me.
C&C RA skirmish: let's build firetowers everywhere in the base, cash well spend
Far cry: the chick you had to escort, "let's run in guns blazing while they haven't seen us yet from a mile away"
HL2: let's stand next to the flammable barrel whilst taking potshots in the open with a pistol, yes I'm looking at you valve. I miss the (excellent) marines ai from hl1, at least I had a good laugh now and then when they would throw a grenade only to have it fall back down on their heads and explode.
AVP1: marines had none, except for shooting a pulse rifle grenade point blank killing themselves as well
Stronghold crusader: let's only build spearman and really really really crappy castles with strange placed empty towers everywhere ( you had to put in the pig, wolf or richard for even a chance of somebody actually attacking )
COH: agreed on the spuma spam, what the hell?
The new turok game ( demo ): I'm lost, don't know where to go. Only to find my teammate standing behind me saying "let's go, what are you doing, follow me!!" over and over while not moving at all making it impossible to follow in the first place.
As for unfair AI, almost every game has this.
Call of duty 1: hardest mode. Every rifle infantrymen is a trained sniper, no health boxes what so ever. Many quickloads ensued, finished it though.
Cod4: Ai throwing 134314556053578 grenades at you, running for you whilst ignoring your teammates, etc. Just very bad ai, where is this in the reviews?
Worms on the xbox arcade: come on already!!! Nobody can shoot a bazooka THAT GOOD
BF, any version: bots+rpg/bazooka's are insane. I also remember a time where a bot in bf2 shot my chopper down with a 1 second burst from a 50cal buggy, edge of the viewdistance.
Max Payne: how many bullets can some guys take? Thankgod for the M79.
Some other games I can't remember but there are plenty of times AI pisses the hell outta me.
Any enemy AI in an FPS or RTS that knows exactly where you are at all times and the most efficient way in which to deliver a steaming payload of assrape to your defenceless backdoor. If I'm being careful and staying behind cover, I don't like the fact that I can be headshot sniped through a tree in the interests of making the game "challenging".
I don't like RTS games where the computer generates units and accumulates resources with impossible efficiency and speed - the only strategy game I even play anymore is Galactic Civilizations because at least when it defeats me I believe it was done honestly. If the Drengin Empire has a fleet of Avatar class battleships while I'm still rocking starfighters, it's because I've spent too much time researching cultural imrpvoements and building Constructors. That I can deal with.
I don't like RTS games where the computer generates units and accumulates resources with impossible efficiency and speed - the only strategy game I even play anymore is Galactic Civilizations because at least when it defeats me I believe it was done honestly. If the Drengin Empire has a fleet of Avatar class battleships while I'm still rocking starfighters, it's because I've spent too much time researching cultural imrpvoements and building Constructors. That I can deal with.
AI in Dark Crusade don't have unlimited resources.. however, at higher difficulty ratings they'll start getting resources faster etc. which is the main problem. Their building patterns and choice of units is usually predictable.
As for CoH AI, don't get me started... Those pumas are just everywhere. And when you play against Brits they're like "Hey chaps, how 'bout we just refrain from building any emplacements and get a nice cup of tea instead?" Also, the British AI likes to spam Churchills. Seriously, several times I've seen the enemy spend their manpower on nothing but those shitty tanks.
American AI is somewhat effective when it resorts to just spamming rangers, but the fact that the AI always uses a complete tunnel-vision approach to strategy makes it easy to counter it...
Oh... and in Medieval 2: Total War when a little nation consisting of 2 or 3 provinces feel a sudden surge of megalomania and turn down all offers of peace, feeling that they can confidently take on a colossal empire with an army fifteen times what they can muster if they spend every last penny on new recruits.
As for CoH AI, don't get me started... Those pumas are just everywhere. And when you play against Brits they're like "Hey chaps, how 'bout we just refrain from building any emplacements and get a nice cup of tea instead?" Also, the British AI likes to spam Churchills. Seriously, several times I've seen the enemy spend their manpower on nothing but those shitty tanks.
American AI is somewhat effective when it resorts to just spamming rangers, but the fact that the AI always uses a complete tunnel-vision approach to strategy makes it easy to counter it...
Oh... and in Medieval 2: Total War when a little nation consisting of 2 or 3 provinces feel a sudden surge of megalomania and turn down all offers of peace, feeling that they can confidently take on a colossal empire with an army fifteen times what they can muster if they spend every last penny on new recruits.
I do like Alex from Half-Life episodes. She hasn't done anything stupid but then again, she can;t die. The trade off is there is hardly a difference between Easy/Hard mode in that game
The Smash Bros characters got allot stronger! I actually had to put up a fight just to survive.
I like Halo 3's AI because it's the soul point of their difficulty. Some games spawn more enemies, some games only raise the health, some games make enemies do more damage and stuff like that. Halo however makes more aggressive AI and I believe that's the most realistic way to beef up a challenge.
The Smash Bros characters got allot stronger! I actually had to put up a fight just to survive.
I like Halo 3's AI because it's the soul point of their difficulty. Some games spawn more enemies, some games only raise the health, some games make enemies do more damage and stuff like that. Halo however makes more aggressive AI and I believe that's the most realistic way to beef up a challenge.
In skirmish they don't get too many advantages, unless you put the game on fast resource generation or high starting resources, both of which seem to benefit the AI more than the player. In campaign they also get a significant amount of starting forces (especially when they attack you), and do love to rush you with them at the start.AsbestosKidney said:
Soulstorm removes the campaign advantage, mostly because it drops you back to a tier 1 base every time you play a map defence.