Rumor: It's 'Nam-vember 2010 With Treyarch's Next Call of Duty

[John Funk]

"The DSM" said nothing about who is making it.

It is unreasonable that the same shit (US vs {Germans, Japanese, Koreans, Vietnamese, Arabs}) is done to death - both by American studios and non-American studios - when there are so many fresh scenarios to pick from. It can't be a question of lacking suitably well-known conflicts, since e.g. the reverse versions of those scenarios would naturally share the same name recognition.

In a nutshell: when a pile of games with an "Americans vs Germans" or "Americans vs Vietcong" scenario exist already, the chances are pretty close to nil that one more such game will end up more compelling than a "Germans vs the French" or "Vietcong vs Americans" game would. Such a change is not only a skin swap, but would also provide easy fresh content (famous battles, ...) and also help inspire a shakeup of mechanics suitable to the new scenario.

Why is it that the bulk of American gamers put so much weight on playing an American protagonist, and are almost dead set on playing an English speaking protagonist? And why are they so dead set against seeing Americans as antagonists?

I simply do not understand those preferences, even after substituting my own nationality and language (neither of which I have ever seen in a game so far). It seems so silly - obsessing over having this label or that label in game just because you have that label IRL, even though there is absolutely no logical connection between the game world of bits and the real one, and paying for these obsessions by forgoing better game mechanics and fresh content.

We see the same market standards across genres, so it's not just military FPS. Masses of non-American studios develop games that have American protagonists and American cultural references, often set in America. How many games emerge from American devs with an European, Japanese, Australian protagonist? How many are set in Europe?

COD4 and MW2 were some of the biggest games ever. You spent a huge part of the game playing as a Brit.

Prince of Persia (well, voice acting aside). Just now, the Saboteur.

I think most characters are American just for the fact that the local voice actors are American, and it's culturally what they're used to. Are you going to blame an Eastern European studio for making STALKER, a game set in Chernobyl?

Honestly, I think the only people who make it a big deal aren't American.

So keeping with the theme of countries America hates/had wars with.

Original.

Yes, because it's completely unreasonable for a California-based developer made largely of Americans to make a game about Americans...?

Yes, because it's completely unreasonable for a California-based developer made largely of Americans to say 'Hey! I just noticed, we're not the only country in the world! Maybe we do a game from a different perspective?'...?

You mean like how half of World at War had you playing from the Russian POV, right?

 

[Lithium Calibre]

This could possibly be Treyarch's best CoD game yet, if they get the atmosphere right I see potential. Can I pull Lt. Dan out of the range of a napalm strike?

lol, great reference. ""a bee bit my but" for an achievement for sure.

 

[Nutcase]

"The DSM" said nothing about who is making it.

It is unreasonable that the same shit (US vs {Germans, Japanese, Koreans, Vietnamese, Arabs}) is done to death - both by American studios and non-American studios - when there are so many fresh scenarios to pick from. It can't be a question of lacking suitably well-known conflicts, since e.g. the reverse versions of those scenarios would naturally share the same name recognition.

I think most characters are American just for the fact that the local voice actors are American, and it's culturally what they're used to. Are you going to blame an Eastern European studio for making STALKER, a game set in Chernobyl?

Reading comprehension FTW? The problem is what does not get made, instead of who makes what.

Why is it that the bulk of American gamers put so much weight on playing an American protagonist, and are almost dead set on playing an English speaking protagonist? And why are they so dead set against seeing Americans as antagonists?
...
We see the same market standards across genres, so it's not just military FPS. Masses of non-American studios develop games that have American protagonists and American cultural references, often set in America. How many games emerge from American devs with an European, Japanese, Australian protagonist? How many are set in Europe?

COD4 and MW2 were some of the biggest games ever. You spent a huge part of the game playing as a Brit.

You got to play another English-speaker in a game that opens up playing an American? Wow!

Prince of Persia (well, voice acting aside).

A fantasy game set far in the past. Equally far from anyone's contemporary culture. Why not quote Lost Vikings too while you're at it?

Just now, the Saboteur.

This game, though it also features a English-speaking protagonist and is set in the most overused war on the side of the Americans, actually looks to maybe not contain Americans based on the synopsis. Good job, one semi-valid example out of three.

What are the American-made counterparts of Crysis, Alone in the Dark, Max Payne, No More Heroes, Alan Wake, etc.? Featuring a non-American protagonist, set somewhere other than America, not full of Americans, and containing at least traces of recognizable contemporary culture?

 

[Monkeytacoz]

sounds like a great game and a break from modern war and WWII games

 

[John Funk]

"The DSM" said nothing about who is making it.

It is unreasonable that the same shit (US vs {Germans, Japanese, Koreans, Vietnamese, Arabs}) is done to death - both by American studios and non-American studios - when there are so many fresh scenarios to pick from. It can't be a question of lacking suitably well-known conflicts, since e.g. the reverse versions of those scenarios would naturally share the same name recognition.

I think most characters are American just for the fact that the local voice actors are American, and it's culturally what they're used to. Are you going to blame an Eastern European studio for making STALKER, a game set in Chernobyl?

Reading comprehension FTW? The problem is what does not get made, instead of who makes what.

Why is it that the bulk of American gamers put so much weight on playing an American protagonist, and are almost dead set on playing an English speaking protagonist? And why are they so dead set against seeing Americans as antagonists?
...
We see the same market standards across genres, so it's not just military FPS. Masses of non-American studios develop games that have American protagonists and American cultural references, often set in America. How many games emerge from American devs with an European, Japanese, Australian protagonist? How many are set in Europe?

COD4 and MW2 were some of the biggest games ever. You spent a huge part of the game playing as a Brit.

You got to play another English-speaker in a game that opens up playing an American? Wow!

Prince of Persia (well, voice acting aside).

A fantasy game set far in the past. Equally far from anyone's contemporary culture. Why not quote Lost Vikings too while you're at it?

Just now, the Saboteur.

This game, though it also features a English-speaking protagonist and is set in the most overused war on the side of the Americans, actually looks to maybe not contain Americans based on the synopsis. Good job, one semi-valid example out of three.

What are the American-made counterparts of Crysis, Alone in the Dark, Max Payne, No More Heroes, Alan Wake, etc.? Featuring a non-American protagonist, set somewhere other than America, not full of Americans, and containing at least traces of recognizable contemporary culture?

I'm sorry, I just don't see this as a really valid complaint. Americans will make games (largely) starring Americans because it's culturally compatible. Eastern Europeans (largely) make games starring Eastern Europeans because it's culturally compatible. Japanese (largely) make games starring Japanese because it's culturally compatible. The problem isn't with any one nationality, it's with an overall lack of unoriginal material.

It feels like like criticizing the main characters of Star Wars for being American because they're all speaking English.

 

[Nutcase]

I'm sorry, I just don't see this as a really valid complaint. Americans will make games (largely) starring Americans because it's culturally compatible. Eastern Europeans (largely) make games starring Eastern Europeans because it's culturally compatible. Japanese (largely) make games starring Japanese because it's culturally compatible. The problem isn't with any one nationality, it's with an overall lack of unoriginal material.

Americans will make games virtually only about Americans (and rarely English-speaking "American substitutes" such as the Brits, but British culture is still a no-show). If it's not like that and I'm talking out of my ass, then you'll easily come up with some counterexamples.

The Japanese made Metal Gear, Silent Hill, Resident Evil, No More Heroes. What did the Americans make that is anywhere near as "Japanese" as these games were "American" in characters and setting?
The Scandinavians made Max Payne, Battlefield, World in Conflict, Alan Wake. Same question.
The French made Indigo Prophecy, Alone in the Dark, Heavy Rain. Same question.
The Brits made Grand Theft Auto. Same question.

With one exception (the Japanese), everyone actually develops more major American-themed games than games themed to their own environment. And the European gamers obviously have no problem playing American-themed games. Why is this, if not for American gamers having a huge problem with anything featuring non-Americans?

 

[John Funk]

I'm sorry, I just don't see this as a really valid complaint. Americans will make games (largely) starring Americans because it's culturally compatible. Eastern Europeans (largely) make games starring Eastern Europeans because it's culturally compatible. Japanese (largely) make games starring Japanese because it's culturally compatible. The problem isn't with any one nationality, it's with an overall lack of unoriginal material.

Americans will make games virtually only about Americans (and rarely English-speaking "American substitutes" such as the Brits, but British culture is still a no-show). If it's not like that and I'm talking out of my ass, then you'll easily come up with some counterexamples.

The Japanese made Metal Gear, Silent Hill, Resident Evil, No More Heroes. What did the Americans make that is anywhere near as "Japanese" as these games were "American" in characters and setting?
The Scandinavians made Max Payne, Battlefield, World in Conflict, Alan Wake. Same question.
The French made Indigo Prophecy, Alone in the Dark, Heavy Rain. Same question.
The Brits made Grand Theft Auto. Same question.

With one exception (the Japanese), everyone actually develops more major American-themed games than games themed to their own environment. And the European gamers obviously have no problem playing American-themed games. Why is this, if not for American gamers having a huge problem with anything featuring non-Americans?

I can't speak to the developers, of course. But I have literally never heard of any American gamer ever having a problem with a game that features a non-American character as the protagonist. Again, I point to the biggest launch of all time, MW2, whose main "face," Soap, was a Brit.

 

[Nutcase]

I'm sorry, I just don't see this as a really valid complaint. Americans will make games (largely) starring Americans because it's culturally compatible. Eastern Europeans (largely) make games starring Eastern Europeans because it's culturally compatible. Japanese (largely) make games starring Japanese because it's culturally compatible. The problem isn't with any one nationality, it's with an overall lack of unoriginal material.

Americans will make games virtually only about Americans (and rarely English-speaking "American substitutes" such as the Brits, but British culture is still a no-show). If it's not like that and I'm talking out of my ass, then you'll easily come up with some counterexamples.

The Japanese made Metal Gear, Silent Hill, Resident Evil, No More Heroes. What did the Americans make that is anywhere near as "Japanese" as these games were "American" in characters and setting?
The Scandinavians made Max Payne, Battlefield, World in Conflict, Alan Wake. Same question.
The French made Indigo Prophecy, Alone in the Dark, Heavy Rain. Same question.
The Brits made Grand Theft Auto. Same question.

With one exception (the Japanese), everyone actually develops more major American-themed games than games themed to their own environment. And the European gamers obviously have no problem playing American-themed games. Why is this, if not for American gamers having a huge problem with anything featuring non-Americans?

I can't speak to the developers, of course. But I have literally never heard of any American gamer ever having a problem with a game that features a non-American character as the protagonist. Again, I point to the biggest launch of all time, MW2, whose main "face," Soap, was a Brit.

So the fact is you cannot come up with a single counterpoint to the games above (by no means an exhaustive list). MW2 is in no way "British" like GTA is "American". Not even in the same ballpark.

A few years back, a project lead on a major retail game for 360/PS3/PC in a non-US studio told me in a private conversation that they went with an all-US setting and characters because the US audience, and subsequently the publishers, would not be interested in the game otherwise.

The same mild xenophobia is also why the US does a lot of inferior remakes of successful foreign movies where the only "contribution" of the remake is to change all key actors to Americans. Japanese, Korean, Spanish, French, you name it - it has to be changed into American. Even British works get remade despite the language which shows that the "pseudo-American" status that Brits hold in the eyes of the American audience only goes so far.

 

[Pimppeter2]

Just sayin

I called it

 

[akmarksman]

I will buy this game

and I will love this game if the training map is Parris Island,South Carolina.The United States Marine Corps Recruit Depot.

"An 8 week college for the phony tough and the crazy brave"
and your drill sgt is none other than:

Gunnery Sergeant Hartmann.

and we have to have
The Trashmen,Creedence Clearwater Revival,The Doors,Jimi Hendrix.

Spoiler

Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: [singing] Mama and Papa were laying in bed!
Recruits: [singing] Mama and Papa were laying in bed!
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: [singing] Mama rolled over this is what she said
Recruits: [singing] Mama rolled over this is what she said
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: [singing] 'Oh, give me some...
Recruits: [singing] 'Oh, give me some...
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: [singing] 'Oh, give me some...
Recruits: [singing] 'Oh, give me some...
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: P.T.
Recruits: P.T.
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Good for you
Recruits: Good for you
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Good for me!
Recruits: Good for me!
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Mmm, good!
Recruits: Mmm, good!
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: [singing] Up in the morning to the rising sun!
Recruits: [singing] Up in the morning to the rising sun!
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: [singing] Gotta run all day... till the running's done!
Recruits: [singing] Gotta run all day... till the running's done!
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Ho Chi Minh is a son of a *****!
Recruits: Ho Chi Minh is a son of a *****!
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman: Got the blueballs, crabs and the seven-year itch!
Recruits: Got the blueballs, crabs and the seven-year itch!

Things this game needs to have:
At the start,the M14,and then the jam-tastic M16(thanks in no part to ball powder loaded in the M193)
Subguns? M3 and M1A1s and the S&W M76
LMGS? M60(duh),BAR,Browning 1919,
Grenade launcher? M79
and
(drumroll please)

WILLIE PETE!!!!

 

[Buizel91]

So keeping with the theme of countries America hates/had wars with.

Original.

At least it's a new war.

OT: Good. I really want to see a Vietnam game. I hope they do Revolutionary war next.

their have been Vietnam games, they've just been awful.

this could/will be the best Vietnam game to hit the shelves

 

[Buizel91]

wonder how this will work then, because in this war its just America and Vietnam =S in all COD games you've played a minimum of 4 people =S hmmmmmm should be interesting

 

[FallenJellyDoughnut]

DONE WITH WW2!?

I really loved the atmosphere of CoD: WaW, it was way better than the other CoDs before it and not every gun is automatic like MW and MW2, which makes the multiplayer much more awesome.

 

[Musclepunch]

Personally I'd love it if there was no specific warzone, but sort of COD 20th century, I know this would never happen, but if it sort of went through several major wars of 20th century, like Korean,Vietnam,Falklands,Somalia and then like cod4's last mission in the aeroplane, you could have the embassassey raid in london by the SAS, it would make for a much more varied game and fun game and perhaps peoples knowledge of history at school might actually stretch further than the guns from COD. I know this will never happen because of the variety but would probably be the best game ever. But if it is vietnam nothing would be cooler than recreating the helicopter scene from apocolypse now just because it would cause OMGasms from the coolness of it

 

[LordChhaya]

If they do make a Vietnam shooter they MUST have the quote "Seven-six-two millimeter. Full. Metal. Jacket."

 

[Del-Toro]

So keeping with the theme of countries America hates/had wars with.

Original.

What else do you want?

First people get all pissed off at new WWII games, but when a Vietnam game comes out now it's bad because it has to do with the U.S.? Very mature, no mixed signals.

You expect better from a legion of geeks?

OT: This sounds interesting, maybe if they didn't have the encounters be totally scripted, IE the map is linear and there are a set number of encounters, but you don't actually know where or when. Considering that US troops in Vietnam generally knew they were more or less always surrounded but not knowing when they would strike it would really capture that feeling of anxiety.