Ryan Lambourn's Slaying Of Sandy Hook Draws Condemnation

[omega 616]

snip

Oh, I'm glad you said it was sarcasm ... almost missed it. I can sarcasm to!

Yeah, I think one of them is stupid so I must think all of them must be stupid 'cos you know, reasons...

Yeah, Australia is like that ... wait, no, no, they realized less guns = less gun deaths, whodathunk!

Again, I can't disagree. American government is totally honest, doesn't even spy on it's citizens! Population is still scared and paranoid though.

Actually I would say armed robbery means "I want this to be over quickly and saying please just doesn't get the job done!". If somebody busts into a shop and shouts "give me all your money" without, the shop keeper will pull out a gun and say "or what?" ... armed robbery is the only way to rob in America. Just 'cos you have a gun doesn't mean you're ready to kill.

Right again! "sane gun control will never happen", as every American says as they gently rock in the corner, cradling there gun.

I love sarcasm!

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

snip

Oh, I'm glad you said it was sarcasm ... almost missed it. I can sarcasm to!

Yeah, I think one of them is stupid so I must think all of them must be stupid 'cos you know, reasons...

Yeah, Australia is like that ... wait, no, no, they realized less guns = less gun deaths, whodathunk!

Again, I can't disagree. American government is totally honest, doesn't even spy on it's citizens! Population is still scared and paranoid though.

Actually I would say armed robbery means "I want this to be over quickly and saying please just doesn't get the job done!". If somebody busts into a shop and shouts "give me all your money" without, the shop keeper will pull out a gun and say "or what?" ... armed robbery is the only way to rob in America. Just 'cos you have a gun doesn't mean you're ready to kill.

Right again! "sane gun control will never happen", as every American says as they gently rock in the corner, cradling there gun.

I love sarcasm!

The rules of gun safety state that you should never, under any circumstance, point a gun at something you are not prepared to destroy. This is basic gun safety. I have to act under the assumption that someone pointing a gun at me, or someone who has broken into my house with a gun, is willing to use it.

There is a third option to robbery, armed or otherwise: Not committing it. I fail to see how telling violent criminals the onus is on them to not commit the crimes, lest they end up like these two [http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/local&id=9312800] is unreasonable.

Let's play a little thought game: Suppose America did decide to implement Australian gun control. How would you enforce it? Oh, you're still bound by the rest of the constitution. Which means you can't just start searching homes of people who you suspect might own guns. I expect there would be a rise of boating accidents were such a thing to happen.

 

[michael87cn]

He has a point. Killing someone 'in self defense' is usually not necessary. That means guns shouldn't be necessary. But they provide people with comfort (because people are commonly, cowards).

So what's there to do? The cowards out there outweigh the brave, so they will win the 'I can cry loudest' war.

That means... this game is pointless. It will only increase negativity, even though it's supposed to do the opposite. I put this as a lack of foresight on the game maker's part. Maybe he will learn? But I doubt it - since he's done this before.

 

[omega 616]

The rules of gun safety state that you should never, under any circumstance, point a gun at something you are not prepared to destroy. This is basic gun safety. I have to act under the assumption that someone pointing a gun at me, or someone who has broken into my house with a gun, is willing to use it.

There is a third option to robbery, armed or otherwise: Not committing it. I fail to see how telling violent criminals the onus is on them to not commit the crimes, lest they end up like these two [http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/local&id=9312800] is unreasonable.

Let's play a little thought game: Suppose America did decide to implement Australian gun control. How would you enforce it? Oh, you're still bound by the rest of the constitution. Which means you can't just start searching homes of people who you suspect might own guns. I expect there would be a rise of boating accidents were such a thing to happen.

So in your mind, criminals are ok with breaking and entering, armed robbery but gun safety is where criminals draw the line? Look, people will always be breaking laws but with guns even harder to get hold of make things more safe for everybody.

I would look how Australia did it and do that ....? Alternatively, make a law that any criminal can not own a gun ever. Then as more and more criminals lose there guns, as they are arrested or search warrants are issued on there homes (would actually help with getting criminals off the streets "we are here about suspected drug use ... oh, you have a gun do you"). Tighten up docks, air ports and borders to stop weapons smuggling (help stop drug smuggling as well). When gun rates are low among criminals start tightening guns in civilian hands and temporary impose checks that I mentioned before (mental health for example).

Hell you could employ more police on the streets to reduce fear and dock, airport and border workers to help with smuggling.

Only people losing out are gun manufactures but America starts enough wars to keep them profitable.

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

So in your mind, criminals are ok with breaking and entering, armed robbery but gun safety is where criminals draw the line? Look, people will always be breaking laws but with guns even harder to get hold of make things more safe for everybody.

You entirely miss my point. Pointing a gun at someone in a robbery is communicating that you are willing to use lethal force to get your way. Assuming otherwise only puts yourself at risk.

I would look how Australia did it and do that ....? Alternatively, make a law that any criminal can not own a gun ever.

Criminals can't own guns. That's your solution? It's already illegal to use guns in the commission of a crime.

Then as more and more criminals lose there guns, as they are arrested or search warrants are issued on there homes (would actually help with getting criminals off the streets "we are here about suspected drug use ... oh, you have a gun do you").

I can build a firearm with parts in my basement (totally legal to, by the way). I have a gunsmith friend who does that sorta thing for a hobby.

Tighten up docks, air ports and borders to stop weapons smuggling (help stop drug smuggling as well). When gun rates are low among criminals start tightening guns in civilian hands and temporary impose checks that I mentioned before (mental health for example).

How on earth do you think mandatory mental health checks on exercising a constitutional right would pass constitutional scrutiny? Can you cite any case law to that effect?

 

[Nouw]

Here we have yet another example of why the world and the gaming community is not ready for this kind of game. Two opposing viewpoints with people who refuse to try and understand each other from a different perspective makes for an ugly discussion; nothing good has come out of this and once again, gamers and non-gamers are further alienated away.

 

[omega 616]

snip

Maybe stop reading into things? Could just mean "without this gun you wouldn't take seriously, now that you think your life is in danger you will do what I say".

Yeah, I guessed that but I mean "you were in some kind of incarceration? No guns for you". All guns are melted down that are taken off criminals.

Regulate it.

This is what you call bureaucracy and it can be changed, just say "look, mentally unstable people are using guns to kill students, why not check the mental state of all people who buy guns?". If people buy a gun and are fine when they do but life starts wearing them down, they are stressed, co-workers working the last nerve it should be recognized and somebody should impose a temporary ban on owning guns while they attend anger management or something ... like how if you're a dangerous driver you might have your license suspended and/or retake a test/driving lessons.

Just doesn't make sense to me to allow anybody to own a gun 'cos you're American about 250 years ago you might have needed to fend off the an invader or a tyrannical government. Why not just issue them at birth? Cord gets cord, baby gets a smack on the ass and a Glock.

Keep in mind there is a page called the Darwin awards ... like the woman who thought cruise control meant she could make a sandwich in her Winnebago while driving, these dumb dumbs are the ones you think are ok to handle guns? The type of people who need a label on hairdriers telling them not to use them in showers but they can handle a thing whose sole reason for being is to kill....

 

[AldUK]

Two opposing viewpoints with people who refuse to try and understand each other from a different perspective makes for an ugly discussion

That's gun-control debates in a nutshell. However I would argue that when one side in particular has unalienable proof that their argument works, it's hard to remain neutral on the subject.

Spoiler

Australian gun reform circa 1996

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

Maybe stop reading into things? Could just mean "without this gun you wouldn't take seriously, now that you think your life is in danger you will do what I say".

Forgive me that I'm unwilling to assume someone who points a gun in my face has anything nearing my best interest at heart

Yeah, I guessed that but I mean "you were in some kind of incarceration? No guns for you". All guns are melted down that are taken off criminals.

So basically for any crime? Including something like.... I dunno... unlawful assembly? And even for misdemeanors?

Regulate it.

That's a fool's errand. I have the blueprints and instructions to make at least 20 different types of zip gun saved to my computer or to other data storage places. And the required materials are basically just scrap metal. Were I so inclined, I could produce quite a few.

This is what you call bureaucracy and it can be changed, just say "look, mentally unstable people are using guns to kill students, why not check the mental state of all people who buy guns?". If people buy a gun and are fine when they do but life starts wearing them down, they are stressed, co-workers working the last nerve it should be recognized and somebody should impose a temporary ban on owning guns while they attend anger management or something ... like how if you're a dangerous driver you might have your license suspended and/or retake a test/driving lessons.

Here's the thing: You can get your license suspended if you've engaged in dangerous activity with your car. This is not a "because they might do something in the future" situation. Which is what you're describing.

Just doesn't make sense to me to allow anybody to own a gun 'cos you're American about 250 years ago you might have needed to fend off the an invader or a tyrannical government. Why not just issue them at birth? Cord gets cord, baby gets a smack on the ass and a Glock.

Not too fond of Glocks. Obvious hyperbole aside, I don't think the conversation will ever progress to mandatory ownership of firearms, at least not on the federal level.

Keep in mind there is a page called the Darwin awards ... like the woman who thought cruise control meant she could make a sandwich in her Winnebago while driving, these dumb dumbs are the ones you think are ok to handle guns? The type of people who need a label on hairdriers telling them not to use them in showers but they can handle a thing whose sole reason for being is to kill....

"People do stupid things. Therefore, the Bill of Rights doesn't matter that much when it comes to a part of it I dislike".

Yeah no. I have yet to see any good reason why I should ever give up my guns or vote in favor of giving them up.

 

[omega 616]

snip

Me, me, me ... think of it from the criminal point of view. You want to rob a store, you know if you go in and just demand money you will be laughed out, so you go get a gun. It's not "I'm going to rob a store, might as well kill someone", what does killing somebody get you? More jail time if you get caught, you steal to get money not potential jail time.

Why not? Guns disappear more quickly then.

I used the car as an example of what I meant, not a direct comparison.

At the moment the attitude of America is "a part of our culture is school shootings", there is no desire to stop school shootings. You say "oh my god it's a tragedy!" and then a month later it's business as usual. Just another example of lacking the value of life.

snip

Nah, I'm English ... I hate the words Britain and British.

How about 2/3 of that is irrelevant and America is still just a society largely made up of scared, paranoid people who think killing is the best form defense?

1) So what?
2) So what?
3) So what? You're talking about violent crime, shall quote some numbers about fraud? I'm talking about gun crime.

After a very quick google search, "in 2011 In the United Kingdom, the annual rate of all gun deaths per 100,000 population is: 0.23" and "In the United States, the annual rate of firearm homicide per 100,000 population is: 3.6"

So, if we want to play this "comparison" game, you lose. And you lose badly. Mkay?

Now, America isn't a special place... I know, I know, it's hard to accept. America is a largely Christian country, much like Australia and since religion is a rather large part of a countries culture, you guys are similar. For example, trying to make America like India wouldn't work as they have different values due to religion.

Also, guess who used to have liberal gun laws and now doesn't? Now look at there stats "In Australia, the annual rate of firearm homicide per 100,000 population is 2011: 0.11" ... hey, maybe the UK can learn from Aus!

www.gunpolicy.org ... little out of date but I'm sure it's not going to change too much, I can't see Aus jumping from .11 to 3.6 in 2 years ...

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

Me, me, me ... think of it from the criminal point of view. You want to rob a store, you know if you go in and just demand money you will be laughed out, so you go get a gun. It's not "I'm going to rob a store, might as well kill someone", what does killing somebody get you? More jail time if you get caught, you steal to get money not potential jail time.

I never said they were robbing with the intent to kill, only that carrying a firearm expresses the willingness to use it if things go south for them. And really, how hard is it to not commit armed robbery?

I used the car as an example of what I meant, not a direct comparison.

Annnnnd you're still missing the fact that much of what you propose fails constitutional scrutiny

Now, America isn't a special place... I know, I know, it's hard to accept. America is a largely Christian country, much like Australia and since religion is a rather large part of a countries culture, you guys are similar. For example, trying to make America like India wouldn't work as they have different values due to religion.

And Iran and Turkey are so much alike, eh?

We have very different legal traditions, including the views towards firearms being a right rather than a privilege. That's the biggest issue here. And again, what happened in Australia isn't going to happen here. No politician could survive the political blowback of supporting it.

 

[omega 616]

snip

Thank you for making me laugh, remember those two videos I posted I beg you, please, please, PLEASE watch them!

Anyway, just another problem with it, it's all constitution this and amendment that ... it's like without guns, a constitution or amendments Americans can't function. The whole system needs to be reworked, (law abiding citizen style if needed) so that it doesn't put so much bull shit in the way of progress.

snip

I hope we aren't getting salty ...

Obviously it doesn't vanish, it just makes things harder to do and more safe. It's not about getting rid of crime, it's about keeping innocent people alive (and in some cases guilty people alive as well).

Why do people have this habit of asking the other people to stop? Do you think it makes your argument better or makes the other person question themselves? Shit, I like doing this stuff, it's why I never post such crap like "stop posting you're making yourself look stupid" ... Like I care what people, especially people I will never know, think of me!

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

Anyway, just another problem with it, it's all constitution this and amendment that ... it's like without guns, a constitution or amendments Americans can't function. The whole system needs to be reworked, (law abiding citizen style if needed) so that it doesn't put so much bull shit in the way of progress.

I have no idea what you mean by "law abiding citizen style", but, as I pointed out, the process to make amendments is supposed to be slow. It prevents people from acting rashly to change the law.

If you think the process to making amendments should be changed, you're free to propose amendments to the way amendments are made. It's just that I believe way more than 13 states would disagree with making the process quicker and easier.

 

[omega 616]

Snip

Law abiding citizen style is forcing change, I'm not saying by killing a bunch of people using elaborate set ups though.

snip

While it's nice you're being so considerate, you really don't need to ... I can only embarrass myself by defending archaic laws that allow students and pupils to be killed in schools on a regular basis.

I think 4 million registered guns in the UK is a substantial number, in a country of 63 million that is.

Anyway, that's easy. English love 2 things, football and booze ... combine the two and you have football hooligans (there is series of 3 English films about it called "green street") and just general piss heads. The drinking culture in England is obscene (13 year olds are alcoholics, drinking cheap cider in parks till 2 am) and we have a bad reputation in all holiday resorts (especially in Spain) for getting wild.

Then there are council estates that are like mini ghetto's, all kinds of drug dealing, stabbings over turf etc. That is why there is violence like that. Happy now?

When did I say the UK was perfect? Go back and read when I said "the Uk could learn something from Aus" about gun laws. The USA isn't special in anyway, you are not a beautiful and unique snowflake, you're people can be as easily manipulated as any other.

Again telling me to stop, it makes me think your worried your opinion sucks. Like I've told other people, I never actually put that much in stats anyway, like I just said "you're people can be as easily manipulated as any other"

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

Law abiding citizen style is forcing change, I'm not saying by killing a bunch of people using elaborate set ups though.

I don't see how one could really "force change" in this case. Like I said, there's a rather simple process to change the way Government is run in the United States, it just requires a large enough group of people to do it.