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"Science: It's a Girl Thing" Says Controversial Ad
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I could say the same thing. Granted, it was 10 years ago now, but I was studying physics.BlackStar42 said:
And among all the classes I took, it was at least 95% male.
To top it off, because the different subjects were shared amongst people with majors in a variety of things, the girls I managed to get to talk to didn't seem to be science students as such.
Especially in the physics classes. (I met a radiology student, and a few more taking biology or in the very simplest physics classes. But even the advanced math classes had more women than the physics classes...)
So... I don't really know. While I can believe more women than men go to university, from what I saw, they aren't studying science. And definitely not physics.
This is exactly the problem. You're framing it perfectly for me, but you're inside it, so you can't see what I'm saying (apparently).1337mokro said:
The "perception of those professions" is shaped very differently for men and women based on how society treats them from a very young age. The perception is crafted by exactly the "brainwashing" we're talking about, so you can't treat them like separate issues.
There is nothing about the sciences that turns away girls on a genetic or biological level, so that leaves the problem on a social level. And yeah, "personal preference" is largely shaped by social influences, so saying it's just that "some girls don't like science" is a non-answer.
This isn't about telling women to be one kind of feminine versus another kind. It's about acknowledging that the very idea of "women acting feminine" is almost entirely defined by a male-dominated cultural model that persists behind the scenes even today. It is a term that has no meaning, except that which we give it.
Women are, barring abnormalities, programmed genetically to identify with females of their species. And there are a select few behaviors to which women are instinctually programmed to gravitate -- the so-called "nurturing instinct" perhaps among them. But outside that, the specific behaviors we term masculine/feminine are based on the social status-quo.
The social programming that directs women away from science does so gently. It's not going to be as obvious as, "Ew! Science doesn't have pink things, gross!" Instead, it's going to work like any other social programming -- it's going to feel natural, because it's what she's used to. Society has told her girls like shopping, makeup, clothes, and mothering.
What you're calling "counter-brainwashing" is ridiculous. I'm talking about making a conscious effort to stop the current brainwashing. And it will require a conscious, positive effort to do it, because the brainwashing process is such an ingrained part of our culture. Things that we do without evening thinking (like associating pink with girls, which wasn't even a "thing" until the 1940's), we have to stop and think about them, because they have unintended consequences.
You want to make this some kind of "brainwashing in reverse" thing, when it's not. Our goal shouldn't be to "trick girls into liking science." Our goal should be making sure we're not accidentally tricking them into not liking it. That requires that we understand the mechanism that got us into this mess, and it requires that we behave in a way that is more conscious of it. And, to get the ball rolling, it means it can't hurt to work the other way just a little.
There are hallways that, while maybe we haven't closed them off to women, we've made them appear uninviting. We could simply open up the hallways and trust that maybe at some point they'll realize they're open now, but that's too passive to work in our cultural climate. But we also don't want to try to lure them down those hallways (that's the reverse brainwashing stuff). What we need to do is open up those hallways and then make sure girls know they're open, inviting, and worthwhile, whereas before they were made to seem otherwise.
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That is so insulting on so many levels I can even begin to put the thoughts to actual words.
1.. Wearing high heals and short shorts while handling dangerous chemicals seems like a GREAT idea to me.
2. SCIENCE ISN'T JUST CHEMICALS BUBBLING AND MAKING A POTIONS.
3. So, first science is a "girl thing," thus implying men should get out of the lab coat and let the models handle it.
4. Oh, you thought you could be ANY woman to do science? No, that would make sense, you have to be a super model to be a scientist. Doesn't matter what is on your mind, it is the 2 inch waists that matter.
So, it at very least insulting to lab safety, science, men, women, and most of the greatest minds of the last century.
Good job ad.
That is so insulting on so many levels I can even begin to put the thoughts to actual words.
1.. Wearing high heals and short shorts while handling dangerous chemicals seems like a GREAT idea to me.
2. SCIENCE ISN'T JUST CHEMICALS BUBBLING AND MAKING A POTIONS.
3. So, first science is a "girl thing," thus implying men should get out of the lab coat and let the models handle it.
4. Oh, you thought you could be ANY woman to do science? No, that would make sense, you have to be a super model to be a scientist. Doesn't matter what is on your mind, it is the 2 inch waists that matter.
So, it at very least insulting to lab safety, science, men, women, and most of the greatest minds of the last century.
Good job ad.
When the ad could also be an advertisement for cosmetics (seriously, slap on the Maybeline logo at the end)it fails as PSA. Worthy cause to try, but please go back to the drawing board.
Apparently liquid nitrogen in a conical flask is now science. Seriously though, someone, somewhere needs to be punched.DVS BSTrD said:
Oh yes... the best way to get women into science is to exclude men. ¬_¬
This is stupid. I thought being a geek, I'd get away from all this stupid fucking stereotypes of women.
Just makes me think I have to be model-like to be accepted in geekdom now as well.
I'm nothing like those women... I don't care for make-up, fancy dresses or being a giggly air-head.
The only positive thing I can think of with this is that's it's trying to say women can be smart, sexy and still act like typical women, which I've found can be true. They shouldn't be portraying us like this though, it just seems like another bunch of women going "OMFG, LOOK AT ME! I'm a woman in a male dominated society! Look at my non-male body!"
They're not gonna get acceptance if they keep making a song and dance about their gender.
This is stupid. I thought being a geek, I'd get away from all this stupid fucking stereotypes of women.
Just makes me think I have to be model-like to be accepted in geekdom now as well.
I'm nothing like those women... I don't care for make-up, fancy dresses or being a giggly air-head.
The only positive thing I can think of with this is that's it's trying to say women can be smart, sexy and still act like typical women, which I've found can be true. They shouldn't be portraying us like this though, it just seems like another bunch of women going "OMFG, LOOK AT ME! I'm a woman in a male dominated society! Look at my non-male body!"
They're not gonna get acceptance if they keep making a song and dance about their gender.
I find it noteworthy that it is not that inherently different from most advertising targeted at women (I suspect the idea for the ad simply came from study of such advertising). Unfortunately, it fails at its intended purpose, and I can't help but wonder if maybe there is something wrong with the advertising upon which it is based or whether the problem lies in communicating a positive message with the same methodology that typically perpetuates the kind of negative self-image the ad itself is trying to combat.
I often imagine the board room meetings when I see adverts and ponder how the fuck did that get the go through.This advert is yet another example of out of touch people doing dumb creative shit for money.I get that science is dominated by men but I fail to see the usefulness of this add.
That may be one of the most poorly executed advertisements I've ever seen, just...what the fucking fuck was that?
"Trying to counteract the cultural bias that tends to persuade young women away from the hard sciences is a noble endeavor"
What bias? Around here proportion in hard science studies is similar to general proportion of males-females (6M:10F)
So why these ads are even being made?
There is one gender problem though, talent towards hard science amongst females is extremely rare
Yes they try to compensate it by studying extra hard, but in the end we get specialist who is extremely knowing, but have no idea how to use this knowledge in a creative way
And there is also problem of limited imagination, but it is problem of both genders
What bias? Around here proportion in hard science studies is similar to general proportion of males-females (6M:10F)
So why these ads are even being made?
There is one gender problem though, talent towards hard science amongst females is extremely rare
Yes they try to compensate it by studying extra hard, but in the end we get specialist who is extremely knowing, but have no idea how to use this knowledge in a creative way
And there is also problem of limited imagination, but it is problem of both genders
someone's gotta be feeling stupid for making that video
I can think of plenty of ways to show that science is accessible to women - by focusing on the woman, not the science
heck, I've studied movie theory and visual communication
Here's a fun alternative:
1) Show that there are women in science
- show them working, show them doing stuff, show past examples of women of science who participated in or achieved scientific breakthroughs
2) Show that universities aren't just for guys
- show women having fun studying, chatting with friends over a pile of books and notes
3) Show women with scientific educations working in the private and public sector
- basically show that women who get big degrees can get jobs and respect doing science
I can think of plenty of ways to show that science is accessible to women - by focusing on the woman, not the science
heck, I've studied movie theory and visual communication
Here's a fun alternative:
1) Show that there are women in science
- show them working, show them doing stuff, show past examples of women of science who participated in or achieved scientific breakthroughs
2) Show that universities aren't just for guys
- show women having fun studying, chatting with friends over a pile of books and notes
3) Show women with scientific educations working in the private and public sector
- basically show that women who get big degrees can get jobs and respect doing science
I have no idea how they thought this would be a good idea.
Blatant overuse of stereotypes aside, you don't get people into science this way. You need to show them why it's cool. Chuck together a montage of women scientists at work interspersed with some snazzy science-y images and you've already improved on this a hundred fold.
Blatant overuse of stereotypes aside, you don't get people into science this way. You need to show them why it's cool. Chuck together a montage of women scientists at work interspersed with some snazzy science-y images and you've already improved on this a hundred fold.