Science Proves Your Grandma Right About Pop Music
- Thread starter John Funk
- Start date
You know what this means, right? That this will start a revolution in the music industry in which new artists will incorporate new sounds, instruments and styles into their music? Nope, in about 30 more years all pop songs will be the same exact song.
This doesn't describe dubstep at all!
I.E.: Daft Punk - Stronger, Faster Better -> Kanye West - Stronger
You can argue it's already happened. How many popular songs are remixes or use samples of other popular songs?orangeapples said:
I.E.: Daft Punk - Stronger, Faster Better -> Kanye West - Stronger
I was not referring to loudness but their claims of being able to "prove" that pop music is more bland today than in previous times.Scars Unseen said:
I disagree with the implications, though the general premise is correct.
TL;DR - Music isn't getting worse, our definition of "Pop" has just changed to encompass shittier stuff.
There has always been crappy music. In years past, we just ignored it, or let it be a guilty pleasure. By some bizarre turn of events, that has flipped and pop music is entirely comprised of the shit and we're ignoring all the good stuff.
Take a look at the King of Pop, Michael Jackson, and the best selling album of all time EVER (by a huge margin) Thriller. The eponymous song was a genre defining EVENT in music history. It wasn't just a song, that was practically a feature length movie... but what chance would a 15 minute, 4th wall breaking music about dancing zombies and nerdy werewolf-ish kids (that don't look like Taylor Lautner) have in todays "Pop" music landscape.
None.
I'll also point out that the Music video started with 5 minutes of non-music, before getting to two full minutes of verse, another minute-thirty of Vincent Price speaking AND THEN a minute-thirty of instrumental before we get to the big hook ("CUZ THIS IS THRIIILER!!!") In total, there's just short of 10 minutes from start to hook. There isn't a single pop song today that lasts half that long in total, let alone start to hook. Hell, in 10 minutes of pop music, you'd probably be through 3 songs and a commercial or two. And EVERY SINGLE POP SONG will hit their catchy hook within 30 seconds of starting, guaranteed.
Again, the biggest pop song OF.ALL.TIME, released less than 20 years ago, wouldn't even sniff radio play today. Thriller didn't suddenly turn to shit
The other big problem is diversity. The study talks of homogeneity. These days, every Billboard topping single is pretty much the same genre, or really one of 2-3 genres. Once something is popular, studios race to produce 20 more artists just like them, and cash in on the craze. Back in the day that we had such talents as The Beatles, Elvis, Ray Charles, The Beach Boys, Stevie Wonder, The Stones, The Mamas & The Papas, The Supremes, The Doors, Marvin Gaye, Simon and Garfunkle, Hall and Oats, Smokey Robinson and the freaking Partridge Family putting out #1 singles. And that's JUST the 60s. You'll find similar lists of artists all over the creative map topping the charts in the 70s, 80s and some of the 90s. So yeah, you're certainly going to find less homogenization among the cadre I just listed when compared to the current generation's follow-the-leader slop.
All that said, we still have plenty of good music today, it's just no longer considered "Pop." Look up: Karnivool, Fair to Midland, Opeth, Ashes Divide, Coheed and Cambria or Hurt. Not saying you'll automatically like all of those, but it's a pretty good spread of styles, all very talented. Diverse, high quality music is out there ... you've just got to look a bit harder these days because it's buried under the mountains of generic homogeneous garbage that's churned out quickly and cheaply for the biggest profit.
Or you could just turn back the clock and listen to all the stuff from the "good old days." The old jams from Jimi, Zep, Clapton, Queen, Doobie Bros, etc haven't gone anywhere.
TL;DR - Music isn't getting worse, our definition of "Pop" has just changed to encompass shittier stuff.
There has always been crappy music. In years past, we just ignored it, or let it be a guilty pleasure. By some bizarre turn of events, that has flipped and pop music is entirely comprised of the shit and we're ignoring all the good stuff.
Take a look at the King of Pop, Michael Jackson, and the best selling album of all time EVER (by a huge margin) Thriller. The eponymous song was a genre defining EVENT in music history. It wasn't just a song, that was practically a feature length movie... but what chance would a 15 minute, 4th wall breaking music about dancing zombies and nerdy werewolf-ish kids (that don't look like Taylor Lautner) have in todays "Pop" music landscape.
None.
I'll also point out that the Music video started with 5 minutes of non-music, before getting to two full minutes of verse, another minute-thirty of Vincent Price speaking AND THEN a minute-thirty of instrumental before we get to the big hook ("CUZ THIS IS THRIIILER!!!") In total, there's just short of 10 minutes from start to hook. There isn't a single pop song today that lasts half that long in total, let alone start to hook. Hell, in 10 minutes of pop music, you'd probably be through 3 songs and a commercial or two. And EVERY SINGLE POP SONG will hit their catchy hook within 30 seconds of starting, guaranteed.
Again, the biggest pop song OF.ALL.TIME, released less than 20 years ago, wouldn't even sniff radio play today. Thriller didn't suddenly turn to shit
The other big problem is diversity. The study talks of homogeneity. These days, every Billboard topping single is pretty much the same genre, or really one of 2-3 genres. Once something is popular, studios race to produce 20 more artists just like them, and cash in on the craze. Back in the day that we had such talents as The Beatles, Elvis, Ray Charles, The Beach Boys, Stevie Wonder, The Stones, The Mamas & The Papas, The Supremes, The Doors, Marvin Gaye, Simon and Garfunkle, Hall and Oats, Smokey Robinson and the freaking Partridge Family putting out #1 singles. And that's JUST the 60s. You'll find similar lists of artists all over the creative map topping the charts in the 70s, 80s and some of the 90s. So yeah, you're certainly going to find less homogenization among the cadre I just listed when compared to the current generation's follow-the-leader slop.
All that said, we still have plenty of good music today, it's just no longer considered "Pop." Look up: Karnivool, Fair to Midland, Opeth, Ashes Divide, Coheed and Cambria or Hurt. Not saying you'll automatically like all of those, but it's a pretty good spread of styles, all very talented. Diverse, high quality music is out there ... you've just got to look a bit harder these days because it's buried under the mountains of generic homogeneous garbage that's churned out quickly and cheaply for the biggest profit.
Or you could just turn back the clock and listen to all the stuff from the "good old days." The old jams from Jimi, Zep, Clapton, Queen, Doobie Bros, etc haven't gone anywhere.
Well of course this is going to be the case. Maybe it's because pop bands in the past actually had to *GASP!* play instruments?! NO FUCKING WAY!John Funk said:
Pop groups these days just press two buttons on the synthesizer and boom, there's the track's music.
I'd imagine you could do this "sameness test" on rock bands as well and come up with the same results.
Annnnnnnnnnd that's why I don't listen to the radio or mainstream music anymore. Ever seen the "Tween Wave" episode of South Park? Yeah....I've reached that point with most music on any radio station these days. "No, it literally sounds like there's someone shitting in my ear..."
Huzzah, I'm not going crazy, it IS becoming more bland!
Though I notice a lot of people tend to say 'all music after 2000' falls to this, and well, even in the last couple years we've gotten these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XlNbQv_Rg4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XM1v-00C6AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWdkozMxkEc
(Stopping here because if I include more examples I'll start going overboard with them >.>)
Perhaps these might be 'samey' compared to the other songs of their genres, but I've never been able to actually mistake these songs for other songs like I've been doing with a lot of radio music recently.
Though I notice a lot of people tend to say 'all music after 2000' falls to this, and well, even in the last couple years we've gotten these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XlNbQv_Rg4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XM1v-00C6AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWdkozMxkEc
(Stopping here because if I include more examples I'll start going overboard with them >.>)
Perhaps these might be 'samey' compared to the other songs of their genres, but I've never been able to actually mistake these songs for other songs like I've been doing with a lot of radio music recently.
Well, that didn't take me long to find someone who already posted my thoughts. I would personally go with "We breathe oxygen" myself, though.tmande2nd said:
Tell me I'm not the only one who hated pop music as a teen & as an adult, but had a parent or grandparent who DID like it.
This is quite interesting, but it seems strange that a group of scientists would get together and say, 'well, shall we work on curing a disease? Solving the renewable energy conundrum? World hunger, anyone? Nah fuck that, let's conduct a study on music that will be of no use to anyone, ever.'
In short, is there any practical application for this knowledge, and, if not, why are scientists wasting time on it?
In short, is there any practical application for this knowledge, and, if not, why are scientists wasting time on it?
'Splains why even though I am one of the targets for mainstream music, being an 18 year old male with money to earn but no bills to pay, I have no interest in modern pop.
I have a diverse taste in music, liking Led Zeppelin, Bach, and The Megas equally, and as a result I have little to zero interest in the hundreds if songs that are all really one song in modern pop.
I have a diverse taste in music, liking Led Zeppelin, Bach, and The Megas equally, and as a result I have little to zero interest in the hundreds if songs that are all really one song in modern pop.
The study says pop music has become simpler and less unique. Which are rather objective characteristics. "Better" or "worse" has little bearing on this.
I first noticed this when "Nirvana and friends" were wiping the "hard 'n' heavy"/hair metal bands out of the map. I was kinda sad at it, but a few years later I realized it was actually a good thing, when I also realized how much alike they all had sounded.
I still listen to those bands. Some, because I think their music is really good (e.g. Dokken, Def Leppard, Triumph); others, for nostalgia (e.g., Bonfire, Giant, Great White).
As for similar chord progressions/riffs/whatever. Besides the obvious Axis of Awesome video, take a look at Duran Duran's verse riff on "Girls on Film" and AC/DC's verse riff on "Shot Down in Flames". Also, take a look at the opening of the chorus for Gnarls Barkley's "Crazy" and Adele's "Rolling in the Deep".
This doesn't apply just to pop, this applies to any genre that becomes successful enough to be "promoted" to the status of "Big Biz".
Yeah, it's pretty obvious. And, yeah, who cares?
Edit: Corrected the AC/DC song.
I first noticed this when "Nirvana and friends" were wiping the "hard 'n' heavy"/hair metal bands out of the map. I was kinda sad at it, but a few years later I realized it was actually a good thing, when I also realized how much alike they all had sounded.
I still listen to those bands. Some, because I think their music is really good (e.g. Dokken, Def Leppard, Triumph); others, for nostalgia (e.g., Bonfire, Giant, Great White).
As for similar chord progressions/riffs/whatever. Besides the obvious Axis of Awesome video, take a look at Duran Duran's verse riff on "Girls on Film" and AC/DC's verse riff on "Shot Down in Flames". Also, take a look at the opening of the chorus for Gnarls Barkley's "Crazy" and Adele's "Rolling in the Deep".
This doesn't apply just to pop, this applies to any genre that becomes successful enough to be "promoted" to the status of "Big Biz".
Yeah, it's pretty obvious. And, yeah, who cares?
Edit: Corrected the AC/DC song.
