Scott Cawthon (FNaF guy) cancelled

Agema

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Are you saying none of that could be applied to anyone else? I don't think being an arogant dick is justification for "cancelation". If Milo was behaving like this for the other side, would people have the same problem with him?
Well, it also applies to the current British Prime Minister and his predecessor two back. But that paragraph is not really about cancellation, so much that Milo is a self-publicising twat who in a better world no-one would pay much attention to in the first place.

He got himself cancelled, firstly deliberately from some social media, because he knew there were a bunch of patsies who would support him for it and make sure he had a cushy media job. And let's face it, he was banned from Twitter for harassment, not for saying things the liberal cuck feminazi left think are inappropriate. Then he managed to get himself cancelled from his cushy media job, this time accidentally, by opining that it might be character building for 13-year-olds to have sex with adults. (Strangely, the usual pro-Milo right-wing friendly brigade always seem to forget the latter.)

I could almost feel sorry for him. But I'd feel a lot more sorry for him if he dealt with his psychological problems in therapy, instead of the havoc he causes in a desperate attempt to fill whatever tragic void lies inside him.
 

Terminal Blue

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The point is that this unwavering unwillingness to even consider letting someone be on the Right is being used as a weapon. Conservative opinions must be eradicated, and destroyed. It's a war that is destroying the country and even places outside the U.S. because the same types of battles are happening in the U.K. against people like Piers Morgan and Austrailia.
It's also a war conservatives started, and a war they have been waging for generations against every form of marginalized person, every form of political dissent and everything which doesn't align with their spectacularly narrow worldview. The only difference is that now they're losing, and suddenly we all have to worry about the collateral damage..

How about no. If you want your opinions to be respected, have an opinion worthy of respect. Do the work that everyone else has already done. Make the basic effort to accommodate yourself to a society that doesn't revolve around you any more.

Consider what life was like for literally everyone else back when conservatives controlled public discourse, and then go away and think about what you have actually done to deserve better.
 

CriticalGaming

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Well, it also applies to the current British Prime Minister and his predecessor two back. But that paragraph is not really about cancellation, so much that Milo is a self-publicising twat who in a better world no-one would pay much attention to in the first place.

He got himself cancelled, firstly deliberately from some social media, because he knew there were a bunch of patsies who would support him for it and make sure he had a cushy media job. And let's face it, he was banned from Twitter for harassment, not for saying things the liberal cuck feminazi left think are inappropriate. Then he managed to get himself cancelled from his cushy media job, this time accidentally, by opining that it might be character building for 13-year-olds to have sex with adults. (Strangely, the usual pro-Milo right-wing friendly brigade always seem to forget the latter.)

I could almost feel sorry for him. But I'd feel a lot more sorry for him if he dealt with his psychological problems in therapy, instead of the havoc he causes in a desperate attempt to fill whatever tragic void lies inside him.
Yeah all that is fair, and whatever Milo's ultimate actions were that led to him vanishing from media entirely are on him and that's fine if warranted.

And frankly Milo was probably a bad example to use, it was just a name that i remember came up during the arguments that had been going on about unfair politicized Twitter bannings.

What i know of Milo, was a lot of the speeches and arguments he gave around 2015-ish in regards to things like gender pay-gap and feminism and such like that. Of which while he did upset a lot of radical feminism for those topics and opinions nothing out of his speeches could be claimed as harassment. Clearly later on Milo devolved into something else and it is what it is.

So wipe Milo from the board.

How about the creator of the Factorio video game. Since we are talking small indie creators.


This person wants to cancel Factorio over the use of the word "craftsMANship" and claims that using these terms causes harm. The creator of the game basically told cancel culture advocates to go fuck themselves, which didn't appease anybody. But it's hard not to smile in that regard.

How is this not unreasonable? How can anyone read those tweets against Factorio and take them seriously. And there has been a lot of attempts at changing mundane language because these progressive extremists are just trying to see what they can get away with at this point. It's become some sort of mass-satire that their own players aren't even aware of. Remember "babies" is a bad term and small freshly born individuals should now be referred to as "theybies", even though I'm unaware of any incorrect gendering potential in the word "baby", but what do I know.
 

CriticalGaming

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How about no. If you want your opinions to be respected, have an opinion worthy of respect.
I agree have an opinion worthy of respect. And the opinion that you cannot chose your political affiliation, vote form whomever you want is not an opinion worth respecting.

Again it's an opinion you disagree with, therefore do not feel that opinion deserves respect. So why should I respect that opinion?
 

dreng3

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I agree have an opinion worthy of respect. And the opinion that you cannot chose your political affiliation, vote form whomever you want is not an opinion worth respecting.

Again it's an opinion you disagree with, therefore do not feel that opinion deserves respect. So why should I respect that opinion?
If you want to affiliate yourself with a political party that encourages racism that is not an opinion worthy of respect. If you want to vote for someone that wants to implement racist policies that also isn't an opinion worthy of respect.

Voting and political affiliation isn't sacred, if you support shitty causes you have a shitty opinion, unless you can present a really good reason for doing so.


Ultimately you're free to affiliate yourself with whatever kind of political party you want and you're also free to vote for whichever party or person you want.
But I'm also free to point out that those people are racists, homophobes, criminals, and a bunch of other things, and that because you support such people you won't be getting my business.


Being cancelled means being unprofitable or financially detrimental. If you don't want to be cancelled you should do your very best to remain profitable.
 
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CriticalGaming

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But I'm also free to point out that those people are racists, homophobes, criminals, and a bunch of other things,
So in other words, a politician?

The problem with that statement, is that often those labels are thrown at people arbitrarily. And you know this. Let's leave politics out of this for a second, you know that people have been labeled as racist, homophobic, transphobic, whatever phobic you wanna label. Hell people have thrown this are Joe Rogan for things he's said on his podcast. And Joe Rogan has had countless people on his show of all walks of life, he might be ignorant of some of his opinions (we all are at times) but to just call him a "ist or phobe" is just nonsense.

And a lot of that name calling is hypocritical anyway. We've all been part of a something otherwise inappropriate at some time in our lives. Ever get cut off on the freeway by an Asian, elderly, etc driver? Ever bump rap music in your car and say words you aint supposed to say. I don't believe that anyone is completely immune from things that wouldn't be very triggering if heard or seen by the wrong person.

Let me ask you this, is liking Tupac and Ice Cube's rap music and bumping it in your car racist if you are a white person? If so, how?

Everything is racist, everything is homophobic, all you have to do is look at things from that lens. Anybody can have a problem with anything if they want to.

The idea is that we need to have realistic separation of what's only a problem behind the lens of making it a problem, versus what's actually a problem.
 
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Terminal Blue

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I agree have an opinion worthy of respect. And the opinion that you cannot chose your political affiliation, vote form whomever you want is not an opinion worth respecting.
Did anyone say that?

Choose your political affiliation. Vote for whoever you want.

But if the people you vote for and affiliate yourself with support cops murdering people in the street, or depriving low income families of basic needs. If they are actively trying to restrict the ability of women and queer people to live their lives, or to legislate trans people out of existence, or to put innocent people in concentration camps, then don't expect anyone to pull their punches with you, because the people you're enabling have never pulled their punches for anyone.

If you're too scared to just own what you are and face whatever adversity comes your way as a result, then maybe public life isn't for you. Because if conservatives have made anything abundantly clear, it's that noone is entitled to live a life without adversity.

Reap the whirlwind.
 
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CriticalGaming

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Did anyone say that?

Choose your political affiliation. Vote for whoever you want.

But if the people you vote for and affiliate yourself with support cops murdering people in the street, or depriving low income families of basic needs. If they are actively trying to restrict the ability of women and queer people to live their lives, or to legislate trans people out of existence, or to put innocent people in concentration camps, then don't expect anyone to pull their punches with you, because the people you're enabling have never pulled their punches for anyone.

If you're too scared to just own what you are and face whatever adversity comes your way as a result, then maybe public life isn't for you. Because if conservatives have made anything abundantly clear, it's that noone is entitled to live a life without adversity.

Reap the whirlwind.
This highlights a point I will make by saying the following.

I would counteract this post with my opinions of some of the small specifics here, but in doing so all that would happen is a dogpile that would likely get me removed from the forums, despite my opinion not being particularly extreme or offensive.

I literally have to keep my mouth shut to avoid a shitstorm, but at least I have enough sense to do that. Yet even this post is likely to have some of you labeling me for what you imagine my viewpoints on these matters.

So basically I have no recourse here, because it is unsafe for me to literally have an opinion wrong or otherwise on those matters. Just like it would be a problem on twitter or facebook, despite me having no power to affect or influence via those opinions. The sheer idea of having them, means i cannot participate in any sort of discourse because people couldn't handle them. It's like being forced to have kids gloves around people because literally thinking can upset people if you aren't on their wavelength.
 
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Trunkage

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Where I said that refusing to watch something isn't cancel culture?

Um, yeah, I stand by that statement. If I refuse to do something, I'm not cancelling anyone.

If we're talking about Kapernick, if someone refuses to watch the NFL because of his taking the knee, then that's their business. If someone says "get him off the field/fire him," then that is cancel culture.
There are a bunch of people yelling at the NFL to make sure its players cant bend a knee. And they put a law in place banning it and fired someone for not complying

How is this different from Gina Carano? People yelling at Disney because she wont be nice to transpeople

EDIT: maybe I need to say this more clear. No. It's not just Kaprernick. He was just the sacrificial lamb. (Also, I haven't read the last 2 pages. So if you answered there, I'll gradually catch up to it.)
 
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Hawki

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And yet you claim the idea of people switching off from NFL in the hope it convinces the league or individual clubs stop players protesting racism is not cancel culture...
I outlined how I drew the line above - you can conflate it if you want.

Although to be fair, mine is not intended as a serious definition, it's deliberately trivialising how people complain about so-called "cancel culture" for the transparently political bullshit that the complaining is. It's a junk pejorative buzzword along with things like "virtue signalling" and "white knighting": finding ways to demean people for having an opinion without having to make a useful argument against that opinion.
I disagree with all of that.

If you want to discuss "virtue signalling," then no, that's not how I'd use it. It's a useful term to describe people whose actions don't align with their statements and/or are willing to make statements, but not take any (real) action. Everyone virtue signals. Companies especially virtue signal. To use a recent example, companies virtue signal every pride month about "committment to diversity" or somesuch, when in reality, all they want to do is appear virtuous so you buy their product.

There obviously is a problem that you don't think it can be usefully defined, and yet are at the same time trying to argue what is and isn't cancel culture, as this is self-evidently inconsistent.
I've repeatedly stated that it's how I'd define it. Anyone else can define it.

Of course that presents a problem, and if there was a better term to use to describe the phenomenon, I'd happily use it.

The debate thus far is people pointing out the vague arbitrariness of the term, that so many things are done that are so similar to cancel culture, why is not applied to them too? And there's an answer to that, which is the above: it's employed as a bullshit pejorative to let people know they need to oppose something.
Opposing suppression of views is a pretty sound principle, I'd argue.

It does of course relate heavily to the general state of the "free speech" debate in popular culture, which is a flaccid, corrupt and pustulent barrage of weak and hypocritical arguments where so-called "free speech" is a weapon to bash political opponents rather than an aim for a better society.
Right. Sure.

Remember that teacher who got fired for showing a picture of Muhammad in the UK? He's still in hiding.

Just recently, students blockaded a university in Canada because a professor wanted to lecture on issues affecting men, accusing him of a "men's rights activist."

This stuff keeps happening, and happening, and happening.

There is a better term for it: accountability. It's just that nobody who buys into the cancel culture boogeyman wants to own up to that.
So people like Colin Kapernick are being "held accountable" for...protesting police brutality?

People like Amelie Zhao were "held accountable" for...writing Blood Heir?

Lindsay Ellis was "held accountable" for...stating that Raya and the Last Dragon is similar to Avatar?

Jenny Nicholson was "held accountable" for...fuck, I don't know, the Twitter mob moved onto her after Ellis and I have no idea what sin she committed.

Even if it's stuff we can all agree on is bad, that's debatable. Again, Ollie Robinson. We probably all agree that what he wrote was racist. The question is whether you write something as a teenager nine years ago, before you joined your current employer, whether your employer should fire you for it (James Gunn is another matter). If your answer is yes, then I assume that all your social media accounts are open to scrutiny, and no matter how long ago you said something, no matter how you may have changed as a person, you should be removed from your place of employment.

There's a reason why I never use Twitter or Facebook to make statements because the risk is too great. But if that's being accountable, then own it.

It's not that any side is 100% correct because both sides have flaws, but the Left has weaponized the outrage to the point of damn near total suppression and that is frankly fucking terrifying. Thankfully there is push back starting because I think the Left is taking shit too far and people (even on the left) are starting to reel back like, "Whoa dude chill a minute". So I'm optimistic that people will come to their sense again and things will level out.
I doubt it'll go away. Social media is too much of a drug to some people. It's why you get the Twitter mobs you do.

This 'culture' isn't new in of itself, but the means certainly are.

Anyway, if people on the Left want to act like shits, that's on them. They can act like shits, and they can be called out for it as well.

There are a bunch of people yelling at the NFL to make sure its players cant bend a knee. And they put a law in place banning it and fired someone for not complying

How is this different from Gina Carano? People yelling at Disney because she wont be nice to transpeople
It isn't different.

Also, Carano was harassed for not putting pronouns in her bio, then harassed when she used "beep/boop" as her pronouns, and was then called out on it, despite people being shit to her first.
 

Buyetyen

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So people like Colin Kapernick are being "held accountable" for...protesting police brutality?

People like Amelie Zhao were "held accountable" for...writing Blood Heir?

Lindsay Ellis was "held accountable" for...stating that Raya and the Last Dragon is similar to Avatar?

Jenny Nicholson was "held accountable" for...fuck, I don't know, the Twitter mob moved onto her after Ellis and I have no idea what sin she committed.
Let me be more precise so there's no getting it mixed up. 99% of what is referred to popularly as cancel culture is either just plain old accountability, or a handful of pissed off people on the internet whose boycott will mean nothing in the grand scheme of things. Actual cancellation is typically done not at the behest of the majority, but the elite few in power. Police and their apologists in power wanted Kapernick punished for speaking out, so he was. This is a thing we have been doing since time meant shit and it's not going to change any time soon. It's just being given a scary name by people with really awful opinions who are trying to avoid dying evil and wrong without actually changing anything about themselves.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Jessica Price and a dude who defended her were fired for being "rude" online.

Was that a cancellation? If not, then why are we talking about Factorio, exactly?
 

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People are mad at this dude for only donating money to republican campaigns? Democrats aren't really any better. I personally don't get why anyone votes for either party, but I guess I'd have to "cancel" like 99% of Americans then.

Also, with regards to ethics/morality to buying a good that may down the line lead to some kind of harm, don't we have the entirety of The Good Place for that discussion?
 
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Hawki

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Let me be more precise so there's no getting it mixed up. 99% of what is referred to popularly as cancel culture is either just plain old accountability, or a handful of pissed off people on the internet whose boycott will mean nothing in the grand scheme of things.
Completely disagree. If it's 99% of anything, it's punitive punishment based on a strain of moral puritanism whose idea of "accountability" is looking for any kind of opinion that can be pereived as "harmful." Even if it's decades down the line.

Actual cancellation is typically done not at the behest of the majority, but the elite few in power.
The cancellation itself might be, but at least in the vein of cancel culture, it's the mob crying out for blood.

Police and their apologists in power wanted Kapernick punished for speaking out, so he was.
So is Kapernick in this 99%, or the 1%?

Assuming the latter, I assume that everyone else mentioned so far in this thread falls into the 99%?

This is a thing we have been doing since time meant shit and it's not going to change any time soon.
I agree that cancel culture is an old practice, it doesn't mean it's defendable.

Yes, every so often you get a Harvy Weinstein, but they're the exception, not the rule.

It's just being given a scary name by people with really awful opinions who are trying to avoid dying evil and wrong without actually changing anything about themselves.
So the post you responded to - every one of those people had awful opinions?

Everyone on this thread does?

99% percent of people who are punished have done or said something awful that means they deserve to have their life ruined?

Cancel culture is, in practice, mob rule. In an ideal world, the actual criminals would have justice done, but in the meantime, everyday people, who are most vulnerable, shouldn't have to pay the price for that.

People are mad at this dude for only donating money to republican campaigns? Democrats aren't really any better. I personally don't get why anyone votes for either party, but I guess I'd have to "cancel" like 99% of Americans then.
Well, according to Byuten, 99% of people who are cancelled deserve it, so...sure?

Apparently. 10 pages in and still don't quite get it.
Are the same people swearing off Scott Cawthon, random example, never gonna watch another James Cameron movie ever again? Cause he's donated thousands to Republicans.
You know, upon learning that, I was struck with the idea of going through Cameron's entire filmography, deciding whether it was left-leaning or right-leaning, and working out who'd want to cancel him.

Sad fact is, I'm sure someone's already done it.

But remember, if Cameron IS cancelled, there's a 99% chance he deserves it.
 
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Johnny Novgorod

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You know, upon learning that, I was struck with the idea of going through Cameron's entire filmography, deciding whether it was left-leaning or right-leaning, and working out who'd want to cancel him.

Sad fact is, I'm sure someone's already done it.

But remember, if Cameron IS cancelled, there's a 99% chance he deserves it.
Left as hell. Titanic, Avatar.
You can also cancel The Zanuck Company if you want. Jaws, Cocoon, The Sting, whole bunch of Tim Burton movies. The Zanucks have given truckloads of cash to Republican candidates. Lazio, Bush, Arnie, etc.
Where does it end?
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Yes, yes, you can't criticize anything if you aren't pure enough to have criticized literally everything all the time at the time.

Therefore, the only thing you can criticize is *nothing* unless you want to be a hypocrite.

Except for pet issues *I* think matter, which can be criticized whenever you want.