Seattle "Superhero" Arrested For Pepper Spray Assault

[JohnnyDelRay]

Ok, so he is a sad vigilante wannabe. But for all those people saying "he should have joined the force", "this is a job for the cops, let them do their job", etc. maybe he has his reasons for wanting to do this. Maybe he sees cops abusing their power. Maybe he sees the police as approaching things the wrong way. Hell, the MERE FACT that he is the only one who gets charged in this incident, when there were other assaults going down and even an attempted hit-and-run, just goes to show the state of justice that he is sick of.

Now this doesn't justify his vigilantism, but I still applaud his bravery and scorn on all those idiots who put him down when they would be the first to pussy out if they saw something going wrong in the street. Of course we can't really totally condone this kind of stuff because everybody's version of the law and punishment sense is totally different, and that would be kind of messed up if someone decides one day to start curb-stomping people for stating their opinions on prejudice or whatever.

 

[JohnnyDelRay]

Anyone remember this article?
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/112249-Heroic-Bungie-Employee-Makes-Legendary-Citizens-Arrest

This civilian decides to take action to put down a serious threat, at the risk of his own life. He brings a weapon, notably to diffuse situations like this (although he doesn't actively look for them), he manages to neutralize the threat and hand the situation over to the authorities. To me, he is a hero, and to everyone who posted in the comments.

Well, lucky for him everything went smooth. If, like our Batman wannabe, things had gone bad and he had to use the gun, would people still call him out? Would he still be a hero?

The difference I perceive here is that Phoenix wants to help by actively seeking situations, rather than just going on with his business and helping out when situations arise. Does this then make him less a hero? I say no, his intentions are still good, but it's just how it played out this time that makes him look bad, because he had to defend himself. It's dangerous involving yourself, if you don't know the circumstances for the fight, and going in there on your own to break it up. But in both cases, they had to deem the necessary action to diffuse the situation, in this case, maybe because he only had a pepper spray, it didn't go so well for him.

 

[Signa]

Seattle cops are a fucking joke around here, and this one just had a vendetta against Jones. There is no excuse for this kind of abuse of legal power. He was the only one arrested in that fray by they way. Just watch 30 seconds of that video and you can see all the women on an assault rampage, yet they don't get any punishment.

and your one of those "well the police arent doing there job's" guys right. this is just like a batman movie

This is just another straw on the pile of gross mistakes. I believe the last one was the Seattle cop who left his loaded assault riffle on the back of his car. And that was one of their least egregious offenses.

 

[5mj7R7yf4Dwr3gdZyyu9PeGNwYjlNrjzuh3iTXQG]

Wow, I'm seeing a lot of ignorance on how things work around here. So a lesson in civics seems to be in order:

It is the duty of a government to establish a monopoly on force [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly_on_violence] within its domain, which is to say that no-one but representatives of the state may forceably violate the rights of another, and then only in the act of enforcing law. Most governments fail to do this, but in fact, a only a small faction of the population is affected by illegitimate use of force (i.e. crime), and thus order is mostly preserved.

In those cases in which the state cannot impose order, a smaller form of government is often established, as was the case in the Kengir Uprising of 1954 [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kengir_uprising] in which the convicts within a Soviet gulag overthrew their wardens and established their own government and justice system for a period of forty days (before the Soviet army arrived to suppress the new regime). This establishment of social order is a natural process for human groups. People organize and will establish a service by which crime and unrest is policed and brought to justice. Interestingly, larger more official peacekeeping organizations will disparage the smaller ones despite the fact that they are often not adequately managing the territory themselves, hence in urban ghettos, we get street gangs, and in regions of political unrest we get terrorist organizations. Despite the less-than-flattering terms, these organized groups do serve necessary funtions within their territory, otherwise they would cease to exist.

Here in the United States, we have an understanding that official law-enforcement organizations cannot be everywhere, hence people are allowed to respond to attacks in self defense, and as a modernization of the citizen's arrest [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hue_and_cry]. Security guards who choose to take action beyond their principal duty to observe and report are able to act within the limits of citizen's arrest.

As it is the case with any patrolling real-life superhero such as Phoenix Jones. Phoenix Jones is, essentially, a voluntary neighborhood watchman. A volunteer security guard.

So, in fact, Phoenix Jones is operating within legitimate capacity. He's not a cop, and does not have full police powers, but he doesn't need them to patrol and to act, and the fact that he's finding situations that are served by intervention indicates local law enforcement is not doing an effective job keeping the peace. If they were, Mr. Jones would be coming home most days bored for lack of encounters, and would eventually quit from inactivity.[footnote]This is also the reason why Gotham has been noted to have about ten times the crime of the rest of the US combined; Batman's evenings would be woefully dull if it even had the crime rate of Washington DC. Of course, the Wayne foundation could do much simply by financing an upgrade to the Gotham Police Department.[/footnote]

Incidentally, assault with intent only counts when it comes to prohibited weapons, of which pepper spray is likely not. If I carried a gun (here in San Francisco) and used it to defend myself from a mugging, it would be considered premeditated, as I'm not supposed to carry a gun. The same would also be true if defended myself with a baseball bat unless I could show evidence that I was headed to or from a ball game (so be sure to carry a ball and glove with your bat). Pepper spray and most electrical stun guns are considered acceptable weapons for self defense in most municipalities.[footnote]I'm not sure if Phoenix Jones' is a legitimate cattle prod or simply an electrical baton that is intended for use against human assailants.[/footnote]

Also, police are not only notorious these days for spraying or tazing citizens indescriminately, but also using such less-lethal alternatives to firearms in the back rooms as devices for interrogation, so if Phoenix Jones waited until he was attacked, himself, before using the pepper spray, he should be commended for his restraint.

238U

 

[The Bandit]

Man seeks out situations of conflict with the express intent of using threats or actual physical violence on the individuals involved - brings weapons with him to carry out that violent intent, and somehow thinks he can argue "self defense"?

Bullshit. You go looking for a fight, it's not self defense.

Did you watch the video at all or are you just going to throw out your opinion like you know everything?

He tried to break up the fight. Several minutes after the fight is broken up, and the police have been called, he's standing on the complete opposite side of the street and several people charge at him swinging. If that's not self-defense I'm not sure what is.

 

[Blisce' Hayz]

We need more like him....I respect his bravery as misguided as it is.

 

[kaveradeo]

(Off topic: why did the cops call Batman in to interrogate The Joker for The Dark Knight, all he did was slap him around and make a vague threat of killing Joker, any cop could have done that (and a short while later in the film actually did!). Batman is supposed to do what the police can't or won't do)

He beat the shit out of him, cops can't beat the shit out of people.

 

[deckai]

Yes, but nothing here indicates he went out INTENDING to use it, he did not use the pepper spray to separate them.

It was only when it went against reasonable intention when they tuned on him that he resorted to the pepper spray to defend himself.

Separating people from fighting should not be provocation.

The difference between what he did and what cops do is officialdom.

"Trying to do the police's job job is as advisable as attempting to perform surgery in the place of doctors."

So where does the example stand of a member of the public performing first aid on someone because no "official" medics around? They have training, they just don't have "official" training. What of the man who dives into water to rescue a drowning child yet he is not an "official" lifeguard? What of the man who goes into a burning building to save someone because the fire brigade are still ages away?

It should not be limited to masked vigilantes, every citizen of a civilised and functional society should do everything they can to help those in need. The fact that another human is dealing the damage should be no grounds to shrink from responsibility.

If someone foolishly loses a large-denomination note in the wind, it is not unreasonable to go out of your way to retrieve for them. But if a person had taken it in a hit and run mugging, would it no be reasonable to try to stop the assailant?

Or should the attitude be "naw, that's rocket surgery, only a trained professional can tackle that thug"

^This

Yes, maybe he's gone a little overboard with the whole costume thing and pepper spray. But civil courage is so rare these days, that it's nice to see someone who's a little bit more motivated. Too bad that his behavior is judged so harsh.

 

[Signa]

To be fair assault is considered invoking fear for ones physical well being and Pheonix did just that, he ran in and started to try and scare random people into backing down by shouting at them while dressed up in a costume that could lead you to believe your dealing with an insane person.

MMkay I misinterpreted part of the beginning as being Pheonix, who was that Shouting break it up? Oh wait it is him, I can't find the part where he pepper sprays some one but ya right about there he's a crazy person getting involved in someone elses business that shows little signs to escalating to anything dangerous and he does it Via intimidation. thats what I think its gonna be looked at legally

Personally? this guy was fucking stupid and he deserves it. He took a minor domestic disturbance threw himself in the middle and antagonized it in such a way to make it worse. his reasoning was not like that of the famed super heroes written up by DC because unlike them he did it for pride (shown by the fact that he makes a point of having it recorded and he wears a really flashy outfit for otherwise small crimes) A girl hit him with her shoes after he antagonized him and heres what he pulled on her
-
temporary blindness which lasts from 15?30 minutes, a burning sensation of the skin which lasts from 45 to 60 minutes, upper body spasms which force a person to bend forward and uncontrollable coughing making it difficult to breathe or speak for between 3 to 15 minutes.
For those with asthma, taking other drugs, or subject to restraining techniques which restrict the breathing passages, there is a risk of death.
If that doesn't qualify as causing someone to be afraid for their well being what the fuck does?
The police one was pretty bad but the primary difference is those people initiated it, I hardly think getting a fight with someone you know is warrant for pepper spray but being on the verge of starting a riot? yeah I can see how pepper spray could be the answer there, not a very good answer that's for sure but crowd control via physical force isn't exactly a good idea anyways now is it?

I just watched the whole video

Did you at least catch the part where one of the perps hit someone with their car, or the part where the whole crew had to run because they were being chased by a SUV? The guy he pepper sprayed ran from across the street swinging his fists. He even tried to keep going after being hit. I've never seen a more clear need for pepper spray.

 

[Flunk]

Why does this guy wear a stupid getup if everyone already knows who he is anyway?

Realistically though, he's going to end up either severely beaten, dead, or in jail if he keeps this up.

 

[synobal]

Why does this guy wear a stupid getup if everyone already knows who he is anyway?

Realistically though, he's going to end up either severely beaten, dead, or in jail if he keeps this up.

They didn't know who he was, the police 'unmasked' him, when he was taken in for this incident, which may of been the entire motivation behind the arrest, even if the know the assault charge won't stick..

 

[Signa]

Spoiler: snip

Wow, I'm seeing a lot of ignorance on how things work around here. So a lesson in civics seems to be in order:

It is the duty of a government to establish a monopoly on force [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly_on_violence] within its domain, which is to say that no-one but representatives of the state may forceably violate the rights of another, and then only in the act of enforcing law. Most governments fail to do this, but in fact, a only a small faction of the population is affected by illegitimate use of force (i.e. crime), and thus order is mostly preserved.

In those cases in which the state cannot impose order, a smaller form of government is often established, as was the case in the Kengir Uprising of 1954 [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kengir_uprising] in which the convicts within a Soviet gulag overthrew their wardens and established their own government and justice system for a period of forty days (before the Soviet army arrived to suppress the new regime). This establishment of social order is a natural process for human groups. People organize and will establish a service by which crime and unrest is policed and brought to justice. Interestingly, larger more official peacekeeping organizations will disparage the smaller ones despite the fact that they are often not adequately managing the territory themselves, hence in urban ghettos, we get street gangs, and in regions of political unrest we get terrorist organizations. Despite the less-than-flattering terms, these organized groups do serve necessary funtions within their territory, otherwise they would cease to exist.

Here in the United States, we have an understanding that official law-enforcement organizations cannot be everywhere, hence people are allowed to respond to attacks in self defense, and as a modernization of the citizen's arrest [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hue_and_cry]. Security guards who choose to take action beyond their principal duty to observe and report are able to act within the limits of citizen's arrest.

As it is the case with any patrolling real-life superhero such as Phoenix Jones. Phoenix Jones is, essentially, a voluntary neighborhood watchman. A volunteer security guard.

So, in fact, Phoenix Jones is operating within legitimate capacity. He's not a cop, and does not have full police powers, but he doesn't need them to patrol and to act, and the fact that he's finding situations that are served by intervention indicates local law enforcement is not doing an effective job keeping the peace. If they were, Mr. Jones would be coming home most days bored for lack of encounters, and would eventually quit from inactivity.[footnote]This is also the reason why Gotham has been noted to have about ten times the crime of the rest of the US combined; Batman's evenings would be woefully dull if it even had the crime rate of Washington DC. Of course, the Wayne foundation could do much simply by financing an upgrade to the Gotham Police Department.[/footnote]

Incidentally, assault with intent only counts when it comes to prohibited weapons, of which pepper spray is likely not. If I carried a gun (here in San Francisco) and used it to defend myself from a mugging, it would be considered premeditated, as I'm not supposed to carry a gun. The same would also be true if defended myself with a baseball bat unless I could show evidence that I was headed to or from a ball game (so be sure to carry a ball and glove with your bat). Pepper spray and most electrical stun guns are considered acceptable weapons for self defense in most municipalities.[footnote]I'm not sure if Phoenix Jones' is a legitimate cattle prod or simply an electrical baton that is intended for use against human assailants.[/footnote]

Also, police are not only notorious these days for spraying or tazing citizens indescriminately, but also using such less-lethal alternatives to firearms in the back rooms as devices for interrogation, so if Phoenix Jones waited until he was attacked, himself, before using the pepper spray, he should be commended for his restraint.

238U

Damn dude, if it made any difference at all, I'd pay to fly you up here to Seattle to defend Phoenix's upcoming court case.

 

[Treblaine]

(Off topic: why did the cops call Batman in to interrogate The Joker for The Dark Knight, all he did was slap him around and make a vague threat of killing Joker, any cop could have done that (and a short while later in the film actually did!). Batman is supposed to do what the police can't or won't do)

He beat the shit out of him, cops can't beat the shit out of people.

You're kidding right.

Cops have a LONG history of beating the shit out of people when things aren't going their way.

It's just as illegal to let a masked madman into the interrogation to deal a beating as it is to deal the beating themselves. And it's implied that the police were ready to do that anyway with the cops reaction to Joker's taunts (allowing him an opportunity to escape). It's demonstrated in how shit the plan was by how joker only told him what he always intended to reveal (just when the time was right) with the whole "who do you save, batman?!" and a convoluted escape plan.

I always said the Dark Knight had great directing, great casting (mostly) but is utterly let down with the writing. Nolan got the best he could out of the script, but he's really given such crap.

Classic batman would do something only a superhero could do, use his ability as a DETECTIVE, not in the same sense as a police detective but as a maverick using techniques that no police force would try (even the ones who are prepared to pull fingernails). I'm talking the kind of outside-the-box thinking that only an individual like Batman could employ, a grand trick, a manipulation of his enemy's psychology or intentions.

 

[Harry Mason]

I can't stop laughing...
I know it's mean, but anyone who dresses like a gimp, inserts himself into the idiocy of a gaggle of inebriated clubbers, and runs away from a drunk woman swinging a purse at him, while screaming "STAY AWAY FROM US! STAY AWAY FROM US!" is deserving of at least a titter. From what I can see in the video, the dude who comes across the street and tries to slug him is only doing so because Mr. Phoenix wont leave them alone.

My favorite part is the last two minutes when the camera man is on the phone with the police, hiding, frantically looking around, and babbling about the "fights" breaking out everywhere. Because of some drunk clubbers. The streets are filled with blood and chaos, because of some drunk clubbers...

I feel like no one in that entire situation could survive a single night in, say, Bosnia.

 

[Headdrivehardscrew]

In theory, I like the idea of real-life super heroes making their area "safer".

Then again, when I watch above video... what I see is two rabid females going berserk on anyone, and a bunch of intoxicated Russians in random brawl mode, all of them eventually picking the "hero" as valid target.

Not a situation I'd want to participate in, really.

I don't see no princess to save, and there doesn't seem to be much purpose in having real life heroes like this. Real people, for the most part, aren't even particularly evil, they're just dumb and stupid, leisurely behaving like animals that aren't much fun to hang around with. I think I see the good intent of Mr. Hero, but in that situation right there he basically puts himself in harm's way for the giggles, and I do understand that this sort of pro-active banishing evil could easily degrade even further than in the above clip, which puts additional stress on police officers, because Mr. Hero must look like a huge shit magnet to them by now.

Personally, I'd want all that silly, violent nightly behaviour to stop immediately, but to some people it seems to be part of foreplay. So, why bother?

I would feel a strong urge to just leave drunk monkey people do whatever it is drunk monkey people do. There's no guarantee you'll ever manage to save anyone from anything, and in the end even the ones you believe you're saving might turn on you. If you happen to be around when you can really make a difference, good - do it. But running around in a silly "armor" with the only super powers being pepper spray and the stamina to do ten-second sprints doesn't quite cut it.

I'd rather go cuddle wild animals in the Serengeti, at least nature would repurpose my silly ass as a pile of nutritious proteins for all sorts of creatures that are expected to consider me as nothing but food. Being charged and assaulted by your fellow man can't possibly be a career goal. Even if you could pull off some hero stunt for years, what would your memoirs be called? People suck?

 

[TheVioletBandit]

We always complain that there is no good in people. When you see the video of the man getting his ass kicked, you look around at the bystanders and ask "why the hell aren't they doing something."

Now someone does, and you jump down his throat. Sad.

I'm with you on this one friend. I don't understand all the hate; especially coming from gamers, when the fantasy of 80% of video games is being the hero you assume that it's what gamers really want. I guess not though, maybe what gamers really want is to be judgmental assholes. Personally, I wouldn't do the whole superhero thing unless my superpowers were a little better than "the power to call the police", but nevertheless I respect that he is at least trying to do something good.

 

[5mj7R7yf4Dwr3gdZyyu9PeGNwYjlNrjzuh3iTXQG]

Damn dude, if it made any difference at all, I'd pay to fly you up here to Seattle to defend Phoenix's upcoming court case.

I appreciate the offer. Let me assure you that this stuff is first-year law school material, and every attorney and jurist assigned to the case should know it by heart. I suspect, unless the Washington State Justice Department has a particular beef with Phoenix Jones that he will be aquitted of the assault charges, as he was responding to a misdemeanor in action (even if it was a drunk-and-disorderly) to which citizen's arrest is appropriate.

The video of the whole affair should make it clear that response was in order, and that he acted within the law.

I predict they'll peg Jones for some kind of procedural technicality to illustrate that the use of force should be applied delicately, and then slap him on the wrist.

Why does this guy wear a stupid getup if everyone already knows who he is anyway?

He does it because he's invoking the thematic device of the costumed hero as portrayed in comic books. The practical purpose is to make him easy to identify in a situation, and to draw fire from more vulnerable targets.[footnote]Frank Miller explains it The Dark Night Returns, "Why do you think I wear a target on my chest -- can't armor my head." If course this raises the question why Robin wears bright colors while Batman dons an outfit that disappears in the shadows...[/footnote] Superman's bright colors made sense because he really is invulnerable to weapons-fire. We haven't seen what happens the first time Phoenix Jones' bulletproof vest is actually tested with gunfire on the field. I doubt he's wearing steel-reinforced ceramics, so I expect things may not turn out well.

238U.

 

[Samurai Silhouette]

This is why us Superheroes stay inside. The cops are just jelly of our bravery.

 

[IceStar100]

I find 90% of the people who he deserve it or idiot are just projecting self hate. They wish they where this brave or where this good a person. They know deep down they are cowards at heart and could never do a brave thing to better the world.