Seattle "Superhero" Arrested For Pepper Spray Assault

[Signa]

...but they'll damn well make sure you don't spend the night in a park.

If you're referring to the same story I heard, it was because by allowing the Occupy Wallstreet protesters to camp in the park, they would then have to allow the WBC to camp there too. Ground rules need to be set so that the ones who wish to abuse the system can't. The Mayor actually invited the protesters onto city hall grounds for overnight, and yet that wasn't good enough.

Yeah, that's pretty much complete bullshit. No locality has ever prevented the WBC from doing anything protest-related. I can't think of anyone intelligent who argues that they don't have a right to do what they do. The First Amendment is sacred, it seems, except when it comes to using public land for the public good.

The way it was conveyed to me (completely second hand BTW, so don't take this as an argument) was that the act of camping in a park was separate from the actual protest. So if that's the case, the First Amendment is irrelevant. That's why the WBC has been allowed to protest, but they always do it within the letter of the law (They are all lawyers after all). What I was told was that none of the protesters were told to GTFO, just that they couldn't camp in the park. It pisses me off because I think it makes the protesters look like a bunch of spoiled brats instead of the rational, but pissed off people that they are.

But maybe that's all wrong. I never even heard of the issue until my friend explained it. We might even be talking about different cities, I don't know. I know some other cities have behaved rather poorly in handling the protesters.

 

[Chaos Inverse]

We always complain that there is no good in people. When you see the video of the man getting his ass kicked, you look around at the bystanders and ask "why the hell aren't they doing something."

Now someone does, and you jump down his throat. Sad.

People justify their own inaction by saying that there is no good in people, but when someone acts, when someone shows that there is good in people, it jeopardizes the justification of the many for their own inaction, inadequacy, and failures.

Its standard ego self-defense.

"Why should I do it if no one else will do it?"
And if someone does it...
"Look at him showing off, what a fool."

This. I mean seriously, I went through most of a page of people insulting the guy for trying to do something good before I saw anyone say something close to "at least he tried" or "he didn't let it just happen". Yeah, it's a crazy idea, but with as much crazy shit happening in the world, at least he is doing crazy shit to try and help people.

If he wants to do something crazy why not join a legitimate organization like the police force to help people in a legal manner.

So some people were scuffling, who cares. People get a bit drunk and then they scuffle, it happens. It wasn't like 4 guys kicking the shit out of one guy. Or some woman being sexually assaulted. From the video I don't see the guy as helping people I see him as getting involved in other people's business. If a couple people want to fight it out that's their business.

I can agree with that(though it's doubtful he'll ever be hired now). But with so many people there, there is no telling if it would have escalated or not, and seeing as how someone tried to pull a hit and run I think it would have. And since I don't live there I can't tell how police are in that town, maybe he just doesn't believe they are effective without help from citizens. imo anyway.

 

[Stryc9]

*Snippity*

They called 911.
They called 911 when breaking up the fight.
They called 911 after someone was hit by a car.
They called 911 when they were being assaulted.

The police didn't come the first time they called.
The police didn't come the second time they called.
The police didn't come the third time they called.
The police finally showed up the last time, 15+ minutes after the first call.

The police are saying, essentially, that you need to die before they'll bother showing up.

Well, that, or peacefully protest. They won't actually try and stop someone from killing you, but they'll damn well make sure you don't spend the night in a park.
-------------
*Snippity*

Keep in mind that at no point did I say that he's guilty of assault. His arrest was likely nothing more than the police trying venting their frustration at the fact that they are constantly running into this guy inserting himself into situations where they'd rather not have a civilian getting involved.

It's one thing to be a bystander and stop someone from beating the shit out of someone else, or stop someone from stealing a woman's purse or whatever. It's something else to go looking to for these situations with the intent of injecting yourself into them.

As for the people in the park, Mayor McGinn should be going to jail along with the protestors since the rules of the park say no overnight camping and yet he told the cops to look the other way...at least until now. The double standard doesn't have to do with the police in this case, their orders came from higher up.

The Mayor actually invited the protesters onto city hall grounds for overnight, and yet that wasn't good enough.

He may have told the protestors that but he either got ahead of himself or he didn't tell the cops what was going on so that yet again they could look the other way. The protestors were told by police that City Hall being City Hall there was no overnight camping and if they tried to stay they would be arrested.

 

[A Gray Phantom]

I always wondered when people would start trying to be real life superheroes, heh. It's a concept a lot of particularly idiotic people would surely have at least considered before.

Result!

EDIT: Well, assuming they haven't already. I've never heard of anyone doing it.

Actually its been done a lot, think of the first part of kickass before things got awesome, where some local people dress up in costumes and go to the streets to fight crime and often made to look a bit silly on the news.

Yeah so its not common, but its not unheard of either, it jsut tends to be the smaller cities or towns rather than say places like NY. From what ive heard at least.

Please check out the New York Initiative. The Dark Guardian has been doing this years before Phoenix was.
There's also Mr. Extreme. He's from California, and the police there have gone on record to tell the public that if there's a problem that the police can't help them with, then they should turn to that man.

 

[Strazdas]

so when is dressing weird a crime now? other than that, he only self-defended. sure he got in them middle of it, but breaking other peoples fight is supposed to be every rightful citizen duty, or did that got lost in transmission now?
what amazes me is HOW LONG it tooks for cops to actually get there. you coud go in shoot them all and get away before they are even anywhere near. this makes me very sad and now im happy theres is a police car driving by my street every 10 minutes, at least they will be close. If every person did at least 10% of what he did, world would be a much better place.

Most of the time when a group of people does something bad, for example beat someone up, most comments are like "This society is sick, why doesn't any do something, where are all the heroes?"
Then, when someone has the balls to actually do something (it's his own fault and decision if he puts himself in danger), the comments change to "Wow, what a moron, why does he act like such an idiot and do something so stupid."
Sigh, people just don't know what they want.

very true. and thats true for pretty much everything. whats worse is that the same peopel have complete turnaround of opinion.

 

[Ohjin]

Ive been in a similar situation to this. A guy was beating up 2 women down a dark ally. Now this guy was big and pumped up on something, I don't know what, but I was crapping myself. I was with a few 'friends' (who didn't back me up-So I was stood in front of the guy on my own). However, I instructed my 'friends' to phone the police station that was literally 5 mins walk from where we were. They spent 20 minutes taking details. In the end they never showed in time. After 30 mins luckily I managed to talk the guy down and convinced him to go home.
I was absolutely crapping myself. I would not have minded having some pepper spray, or at least the police turning up.
If I hadn't turned up, I wouldn't like to think what would have happened.

Phoenix Jones heart is in the right place. Its not like he's going out with a gun or a baton and beating people up.

And I hate the disruptive drunk people coming out of clubs. In the U.K at 'chucking out time' there is a tremendous amount of police outside the clubs and pubs (We have weekly 'docu' shows about it on tv).
That in itself is evidence that there is history of trouble from people coming out of clubs and pubs drunk.

I wish there were more people like Phoenix Jones.

And I'm glad to see from the article that none of the people who hit him, chased him, or through stuff at him were arrested.

 

[hooksashands]

We always complain that there is no good in people. When you see the video of the man getting his ass kicked, you look around at the bystanders and ask "why the hell aren't they doing something."

Now someone does, and you jump down his throat. Sad.

People justify their own inaction by saying that there is no good in people, but when someone acts, when someone shows that there is good in people, it jeopardizes the justification of the many for their own inaction, inadequacy, and failures.

Its standard ego self-defense.

"Why should I do it if no one else will do it?"
And if someone does it...
"Look at him showing off, what a fool."

This. I mean seriously, I went through most of a page of people insulting the guy for trying to do something good before I saw anyone say something close to "at least he tried" or "he didn't let it just happen". Yeah, it's a crazy idea, but with as much crazy shit happening in the world, at least he is doing crazy shit to try and help people.

Amen. Adding my signature here too, because the cops where I live don't do shit for the community, much less try to break up street fights.

Where does this ridiculous notion come from that if something wrong happens in front of you, you should remain a bystander? That you should wait helplessly for Mr. Policeman to come along and make everything better? Fuck that nonsense. I would rather be killed or go to jail than forever be that person who could've prevented something bad but didn't lift a finger.

 

[Misho-]

If Phoenix Jones had waded into the middle of that fight and started dropping people with roundhouse kicks and phoenix-a-rangs (presumably this is what he calls his 'a-rangs) I think the general public would be far more likely to cheer him on.

Granted, at that point he's looking at far more serious criminal charges, but once you've reached a level where you're naming bladed throwing weapons after your faux persona, you just can't worry about what the cops think.

I love how you imply that he names his bat-a-rangs and then critize him for that (something you just assumed)...

 

[cross_breed]

Maybe it's just me, but I love this guy. It is really rare that I see actual acts of unfiltered human decency, and this is one of them. I think he's got a long way to go before he could ever be anything close to an actual vigilante, but, hey, gotta start somewhere, right? The point is, his heart's in the right place. He may not be bringing down the mafia or subduing serial killers, but he's out there doing what he thinks is right, and I really admire him for that. Keep on keeping on, Mr. Jones! I hope they let you off so you can get back out there on the streets and show us all how its done.

 

[ElectrifiedSorcerer]

This was foretold by Millar in the first book of kick-ass

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

So you think going around, looking for trouble, and assaulting people with pepperspray when you find it is pretty alright? I disagree, and I think pretty much anyone will disagree with you also.

I think going around and breaking up fights is perfectly fine. I also think that using pepper spray in self defence should the situation arise is fine. The law seems to agree with me on the latter.

Then maybe he shouldn't attack groups of 8-10 drunk people carrying a weapon, eh?

Your definition of the word attack is heavily flawed as you seem to be the only person here thinking he went in specifically to assault people. If a cop ran in a maced the 8-10 people without warning, you wouldn't be calling this an assault. The sheer fact that he ran in, told them to break it up, then was attacked himself, then used the pepper spray on one person out of the large group pretty much throws a wrench in your definition of "assault". At least in the eyes of the law.

Yeah, as a certified security guard, having worked as a bouncer and currently having a sidejob in security in a shelter for drug addicts, kickboxing and krav maga enthousiast, what could I possibly know about crowd dynamics, weekend violence, de-escalation, situation control and fighting?
People should take the word of a weapons-approving keyboard warrior over mine any day of the week.

This "keyboard warrior happens to go to shcool for law. This keyboard warrior also lives next door to the former head of Pearson International Airport's security. (Best friends with his son). He was in charge of the airport security for 15 years, now he teaches and certifies security guards like yourself. I spoke to him about this specific situation. As you said you would do:

If there's multiple attackers, holds don't work. Use punches to the nose and jaw and kicks to the groin while positioning yourself well, or throw them into objects. Avoid being surrounded, always pick on one and strike with maximum violence untill he is incapacitated, then pick your next target, never throw half a punch at all of them at the same time

He pointed out how stupid it would be for one man to walk into a situation where there are 8-10 drunk people and start punching people to the nose and jaw. That's asking to get jumped. Which I agree with. I'm sorry but your certified security experience can't tell me that going into a multiple person situation is smart unless you either have back up, or non-lethal protection. Like pepper spray. Phoenix Jones had his pepper spray out to show the group of that he had such protection. If he had just run in with his bare hands, he may have been jumped before he got the chance to protect himself. And I can tell you for a fact that if you ran into a situation and just started punching and kicking groins without making an attempt to diffuse the situation first, that's assault.

I see him running in and getting involved in the fight quite clearly. Are you withdrawing just because you can't justify that he carried a weapon with the sole intention of committing assault, and was actively looking for trouble, and even was doing that in a manner so planned out, he brought a cameraman along?

You see him getting involved in the fight by stopping it, which is exactly what happened. You probably didn't see the fact that half the group left after the first 2 minutes, therefore breaking up the fight. The only reason this video was any longer than that was because he and his camera buddies were being constantly assaulted. The latter group in fact was almost hit by a car driven by the friends of the 2 girls attacking Jones. So we have drunk driving to tack onto them as well.

And the camera man is probably there for legal representation, to show that excessive force is never used by Jones.Either that or an upcoming documentary. This isn't the only video of Jones doing his job. And the fact that there is video evidence of multiple assaults against Jones and his cameramen will be looked at in a court of law. All the people in the video attacking Jones, driving drunk, committing a Hit and Run are all, by a legal standpoint, screwed. They caught up to the people in the offending car so they definitely have the licence plate, and therefore, the identity of all involved. And they'll have to show up to court too. They'll have to see this video and explain their actions. If anything Jones' charged will be dropped. Can't say the same for the people who attacked him. And to be honest I can't see the cops convicting Jones due to the fact that they didn't arrest the camera crew. If you're going to charge someone committing a felony but not charge 2 people who could be "accessories" to the crime, that's sloppy police work. The odds are so stacked in Jones' favour it's not even funny.

 

[TokenRupee]

Well i guess, by the sequence of hate that our dear escapists are posting, no one likes the "Hero".

Honestly... he stopped the fight and the pepper spray was in order considering himself was attacked... Jail time and 5k fine is kinda harsh considering all things...

And yes he is kinda crazy and idiot to have hopes of being a hero, but you people forgot the most important thing... He hopes to be a hero, he doesn't care he gets injured or hurt, and honestly he does more then lots of big talkers say they would do. Hell... in where peopel say they would do this, he acctually does it.

Still Seattle crimes, appear more to be drunk people and deuchebaggery then anything else... so do not know what kind of crime there is in that place...

Very true. Sure, the costume may be going a bit far, but at least he's doing something. Most people probably wouldn't even call the cops or just say that can't be bothered by the whole thing.

Not surprised at all. I like the guy and am sure he means well, but let's face it....

If he wasn't going to get charged for assault he would have wound up dead. If he really wanted to help his community he should have enlisted as a cop or something.

Costumed Superheroes have always been a failed premise, only form of vigilante I could see working in reality is some Dirty Harry wannabe.

So that he could arrive at the scene thirty minutes later? I saw him doing more than the cops normally do. Not saying that all cops are bad, but there are those that abuse their position or just don't care. At least he is doing something about it.

 

[jobu59749]

Here's the problem with everyone's arguement about using the pepper spray in self-defense. Nobody in the fight, maliciously went after him, until he interjected himself into the fight. This goes towards all of the super-hero wannabe's out there. Stick to the conventions and walking old ladies across the street. You aren't batman or any other hero for that matter. You're a civilian, most of you don't even have expert combat skills or experience. If you disagree with law enforcement, maybe you should be part of the solution by addressing your concerns with your city council rather than contribute to the problem. You might have a cool fancy kevlar breastplate built into your rubberized suit...won't stop a bullet from hitting you in the face.

This opinion has nothing to do with me not supporting the hero. These people aren't hero's. A hero is defined typically being someone that does something stupid in the heat of the moment that saves lives. This guy is doing lots of stupid things, I don't know that he's saving anyone's life. When someone can prove that they have the skills of batman, green arrow, etc....great, and even then...they should let police handle things cuz death is forever.

 

[HyenaThePirate]

I'm just waiting patiently for the headline, "Seattle Superhero slain in gunbattle with evil mobster mastermind"

My only concern about people deciding to take to the streets as costumed vigilantes is that considering logical progression of things in the comic book universe, it won't be very long until somebody else decides (usually after being inadvertently affected by the superhero without his knowledge) into donning a costume for "evil."

Sooner or later we're going to have some pretty colorful and inventive bank robberies, which sadly, I'm not sure I can say definitively would be an altogether terrible thing..

 

[Sovereignty]

It took 26 minutes for the police to arrive?

Beyond this vigilante non-sense, that is RIDICULOUS.

Especially when that one chick TOTALLY got clipped by the car ahaha.... I mean. How sad.

 

[darksakul]

Give this idiot a medal.

Also I am with this person on opinion

to the people talking about the pepper spray and the taking weapons looking for fights....

1. so a woman who carries a pepper spray in her bag is a criminal offense?
2. cops stroll the night looking for trouble too. thats their job. to ensure they are safeguarding everyone. thats what this guy was doing. going thru the night, hoping he might stop any ongoing crime. looking to start a fight and looking for a fight to stop it are two different things.
2. he even avoided touching people in that fight. all he did was separate them(like normal thoughtful good hearted people do when they see a fight) and he used the pepper spray in his own defense.

 

[lokiduck]

I go to a college not toooo far from Seattle so when i saw the article on the front page about Seattle's super Hero I laughed an went "Really? When did we get one of those?"

From what I saw it's really hard to actually tell what occurred... though it was pretty funny seeing that woman chasing him.

 

[RvLeshrac]

Here's the problem with everyone's arguement about using the pepper spray in self-defense. Nobody in the fight, maliciously went after him, until he interjected himself into the fight. This goes towards all of the super-hero wannabe's out there. Stick to the conventions and walking old ladies across the street. You aren't batman or any other hero for that matter. You're a civilian, most of you don't even have expert combat skills or experience. If you disagree with law enforcement, maybe you should be part of the solution by addressing your concerns with your city council rather than contribute to the problem. You might have a cool fancy kevlar breastplate built into your rubberized suit...won't stop a bullet from hitting you in the face.

This opinion has nothing to do with me not supporting the hero. These people aren't hero's. A hero is defined typically being someone that does something stupid in the heat of the moment that saves lives. This guy is doing lots of stupid things, I don't know that he's saving anyone's life. When someone can prove that they have the skills of batman, green arrow, etc....great, and even then...they should let police handle things cuz death is forever.

So don't bother doing anything good, then, since you may get yourself into trouble? Is that it?

The cops did nothing. They *always* do nothing. The cops show up the next day to pick up the body of someone killed in the fight, then hold a press conference to talk about how safe they make the city.

 

[RvLeshrac]

I also think that using pepper spray in self defence should the situation arise is fine. The law seems to agree with me on the latter.

Why do you believe armed violence is a good thing then? I am against armed violence, because people get hurt or even killed. That's why any coward carrying or using a weapon should be prosecuted.

The flawed US justice system which arbitrarily allows and punishes for violence is irrelevant to this discussion. But even under that system, Jones did walk into that, sought the confrontation, and used a weapon when he got the confrontation he was looking for. Jones was the agressor who conciously created a situation where he'd be attacked.

He pointed out how stupid it would be for one man to walk into a situation where there are 8-10 drunk people and start punching people to the nose and jaw. That's asking to get jumped. Which I agree with. I'm sorry but your certified security experience can't tell me that going into a multiple person situation is smart unless you either have back up, or non-lethal protection. Like pepper spray.

I'm not saying it's smart, it's even unlikely you're walking out of such a confrontation unscathed. Group fights are scary. The worst I've been in in a 4 vs 1, and that was rough, even though I won.
What I am saying is, that what I described, is the best way of not getting hurt when attacked by so many attackers.

Naturally I discount the use of weapons, since all weapons escalate violence, and carrying weapons either is or should be a criminal offense. The risk of ever ending up in a group attack doesn't warrant carrying weapons out of senseless paranoid feeling.

Phoenix Jones had his pepper spray out to show the group of that he had such protection.

No, he had it out because he is a coward, who can't deal with the consequences of his own actions, and thus assaults other people. They were perfectly right to attack him after that. I'd have had at him the moment he showed that can too. If people pull out a weapon, all limitations are off, and you either fuck him up, or he does it to you.

If that crowd had beaten Jones into the hospital, they would have been perfectly justified. They were defending themselves against someone showing off a weapon with the intention of using it against them.

Pepper Spray is LTL. It is rare that it causes permanent damage.

If you punch someone, however, especially in the street, there's a very real risk of injury or death to the victim.

He's taking the high road here by not engaging in the excessive use of force. Using pepper spray on idiots fighting in the street is like hosing down dogs.

 

[RvLeshrac]

...but they'll damn well make sure you don't spend the night in a park.

If you're referring to the same story I heard, it was because by allowing the Occupy Wallstreet protesters to camp in the park, they would then have to allow the WBC to camp there too. Ground rules need to be set so that the ones who wish to abuse the system can't. The Mayor actually invited the protesters onto city hall grounds for overnight, and yet that wasn't good enough.

Yeah, that's pretty much complete bullshit. No locality has ever prevented the WBC from doing anything protest-related. I can't think of anyone intelligent who argues that they don't have a right to do what they do. The First Amendment is sacred, it seems, except when it comes to using public land for the public good.

The way it was conveyed to me (completely second hand BTW, so don't take this as an argument) was that the act of camping in a park was separate from the actual protest. So if that's the case, the First Amendment is irrelevant. That's why the WBC has been allowed to protest, but they always do it within the letter of the law (They are all lawyers after all). What I was told was that none of the protesters were told to GTFO, just that they couldn't camp in the park. It pisses me off because I think it makes the protesters look like a bunch of spoiled brats instead of the rational, but pissed off people that they are.

But maybe that's all wrong. I never even heard of the issue until my friend explained it. We might even be talking about different cities, I don't know. I know some other cities have behaved rather poorly in handling the protesters.

The occupation of the area is, as you might expect from the name of the group, part of the protest.

Since the police physically removed them from Wall, where they were initially planning to set up camp, they chose the next best option.