Sexism against men

[StBishop]

-snip-

EDIT: So apparently, people seem to think that I'm anti-feminist. This is wrong. I am simply pointing out that you have to pay attention to both ends of the spectrum. There is a lot of work to do on both sides, and I'm just trying to help.

There's nothing wrong with being an anti-feminist.

Feminists that I've met have all been bitchy, man-hating, closed minded people who aren't interested in equality at all.

I have a massive problem with feminism, just like I have a problem with chauvinism.

OT: Yeah Time Lord pretty much summed up my feelings in the first reply.

 

[ulzugot]

To support claim of many people in this thread, who claimed that sexism against men exist, there is a recent story of a man who could not get coverage of his medical treatment of breast cancer, only because it is made available exclusively for female patients.

http://consumerist.com/2011/08/man-with-breast-cancer-cant-get-medicaid-coverage-because-hes-a-man.html


I would also like to say hello, since this is my first post on escapist; I followed website and forums for a while, but finally decided to create a profile.

 

[retyopy]

To support claim of many people in this thread, who claimed that sexism against men exist, there is a recent story of a man who could not get coverage of his medical treatment of breast cancer, only because it is made available exclusively for female patients.

http://consumerist.com/2011/08/man-with-breast-cancer-cant-get-medicaid-coverage-because-hes-a-man.html


I would also like to say hello, since this is my first post on escapist; I followed website and forums for a while, but finally decided to create a profile.

Wouldn't that be awkwad? "How did it go, honey?" "Well, apparently, I have breast cancer." But really, that's sickening.

 

[anANGRYkangaroo]

Women fought for equality for 50+ years. And yet a women still gets priority over a child in a devorce. Domestic abuse by women on men is nowhere near as publicised as domestic abuse of women by men. Also, as you say, when was the last time a newspaper published a story of a woman raping a man? Never.

I'm not saying men are a repressed minority or any of that nonsense, but..... yeah, the equality thing may have gone a little far in one direction instead of stopping where it should of.

Disclaimer: Yes, of course, without stats, I can't back any of that up. I'm not being sexist or anything, I'm just writing the truth of my opinion. But the very fact I feel I should put a disclaimer on this post speaks volumes really.

Actually, whichever parent files for divorce FIRST gets the child almost every time.
Its just a fact of the matter that it is usually the woman who files first.

 

[maddawg IAJI]

im a guy, and im sure female rape victims have a right to be paranoid and scared, but id b pretty ok about being raped by a woman. i think its not rape if you enjoy it.

Most victims of Rape orgasm during the rape. The orgasm doesn't just make it sex instead of rape.

Its kinda hard not to enjoy sex, regardless of whether it is forced or not. The problem most victims of rape feel is the mental scarring that occurs, the feeling of being powerless to stop the attacker, the idea of being used as nothing more then a sexual tool.

In your example, it wouldn't be rape. You're consenting to the sex and you probably wouldn't be fighting if you believe you would be 'enjoying it'.

 

[The Gnome King]

All I'm saying is that there has to be a double standard. Otherwise, men will be being called perverts if they so much as glance at a woman. Plus, you do realise that men are raped too? Why isn't THAT big news?

Actually, some of the most common and brutal rape in America happens from man-on-man prison rape.

Reality: Rape does happen a lot in prisons, there is no doubt about that. In fact, in the USA, it is said that there are far more male rapes every day in prisons alone than there are rapes of all females in the USA.

Source:
http://www.aest.org.uk/survivors/male/myths_about_male_rape.htm

What you are referring to is called "misandry" and it is quite common. It means the hatred of men and boys as misogyny means the hatred of girls and women. One very telling fact about our society - the spell check here recognizes "misogyny" as a word but "misandry" comes up as a non-existent word. Interesting, no?

Here's a link to a man who has been combating what he sees as mistreatment of men, in particular this link talks about TV:

http://thenononsenseman.com/nonsense/misandry-on-tv/

And here's a link I recommend any man check out about "Father's rights" - you're not just a paycheck so the mother of your child can spend your alimony/child support payments on her new life with another man. You're a human being and you have a right to see your child:

http://www.fathersrightsinc.com/

We live in a country that is rapidly turning to the rise of women at the expense of men. See this recent article in The Atlantic:

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/07/the-end-of-men/8135/

Before I get angry feminists telling me I have it all wrong, please read the links and provide examples of what you disagree with - with supporting facts. I refuse to argue with people who take an idealist/theoretical stance and have their mind made up without looking at the evidence. If it used to be a man's world (which it never really was - it was always "women and children first, men - you're here to work and fight and die and be a slave class) - it's quickly changing; more women get into college and do better in college because even the education system is set up to favor women. The next generation's college graduates? Predominantly women.

Keep in mind I am talking about Westernized European and American countries here; please don't bring up how women are being treated in Saudi Arabia unless you live there and have firsthand experience. Let's talk about the world we actually live in.

To end, a song from Loudon Wainwright III, a man who knew the truth long ago:

"Men" by L.W. III -

When a ship is sinking and they lower the lifeboats
And hand out the life jackets,
The men keep on their coats
The women and the children are the ones
Who must go first
And the men who try to save their skins
Are cowards and are cursed

Every man's a captain, men know how to drown
Man the lifeboats if there's room, otherwise go down

And it's the same when there's a war on:
It's the men who go to fight
Women and children are civilians,
When they're killed it's not right
Men kill men in uniform, it's the way war goes
When they run they're cowards,
When they stay they are heroes

Every man's a general, men go off to war
The battlefields a man's world,
Cannon fodders what they're for

It's the men who have the power,
It's the men who have the might
And the world's a place of horror
Because each man thinks he's right
A man's home is his castle so the family let him in
But what's important in that kingdom
Is the women and the children

A husband and a father, every man's a king
But he's really just a drone,
Gathers no honey, has no sting
Have pity on the general, the king, and the captain
They know they're expendable, after all they're men

 

[Robert Ewing]

Yes women have been fighting for equality for 50 years. But men have had the same problem near enough. Men have been treated badly by women for thousands upon thousands of years! Many, many greek stories tell the tale of abusive, commanding women that bring nothing but pain and suffering to the men around them. Sure women have been treated badly, i'm not disputing that. They deserve equality as much as men. And that's my point. Women overtake men in control over certain things, and men overtake women in control over other things. It's just a fact of life.

Absolute equality is illogical, because women are different to men. Yes, we're the same species, but women and men are DIFFERENT. In the end, women are just as bad as men. Men are just as bad as women. We are both the blame.

 

[funguy2121]

Sharon Osbourne isn't a policewoman or a public official. In fact, she's only made a career based on her husband's career and based on talking about shit she doesn't understand. That's what people like her do. Telling all rape victims that they deserve it for "dressing like a slut" isn't too far off from delighting in the torture of another human being. Eff that cop. I say we leave him stranded on a desert island with Sharon Osbourne. And they only eat when they fuck each other. There's your reality show.

The media crusade would love to have you on board lol. He said "You are less likely to be raped if you dont wear provocative clothing" not "You deserve it". He didnt say that at all. SEE! Look what they have done! The crusades DO work. What he said was a bit over the line but it boiled down to "We cant catch every rapist before he commits a crime, you should be allowed to wear whatever you want, but at the end of the day its a FACT that these sick people are more likely to attack you if you are wearing very little". And the media gets up in arms.

What he said was still incorrect and still amounts to blaming the victim.

Lush-sluts wear little clothing and are constantly drunk and consequently make very poor decisions, placing them in vulnerable situations. Guess which of the 2 attracts predators the most?

Forced rape absolutely is about power and not about sexuality. I suspect that date rape is often different, as the date rapists I've been unfortunate enough to know simply lacked the self esteem to hit on sober girls. A predator wishes to place him/herself in a position of power over another. If that predator is attracted to women, it makes sense that he/she would go after them and not men for this reason, in addition to the conventional (and often true) wisdom that women are weaker/easier targets (this also makes them preferred victims of muggers). Why do you suppose that gay rape, and rape and general, are so much more rampant in prison than on the outside? How a woman dresses only matters to a limited amount of serial killers and rapists, and they usually don't target scantily-clad women unless they happen to be the hookers they're already targeting. Some target older, conservatively dressed women. Others target women of wealth. All of these are few relative to target victims of the overwhelming majority of muggers and rapists: women who place/find themselves in vulnerable positions (which probably has more to do with serial killers gravitating toward hookers than sexuality), for the simple reason that it's easier. Reason dictates that, if we haven't yet seen a serial killer/rapist who intentionally targets hard-to-violate women because he/she gets off on it, we will at some point. It further dictates that the perp will be an infinitessimal minority.

The chances of being raped due to the clothing one is wearing is not too far off from catching a case of SARS in Sacramento by the end of next year. If the cop doesn't understand rapists any better than his statements have shown, then he shouldn't be in a position of authority sufficient to be making public statements and he should never ever be let near that department's equivalent of SVU.

 

[YawningAngel]

You ever try and balance a pencil on your finger?

Go get a pencil, but put it on your finger really lopsided (but don't let it fall).

Then try to adjust it to balance it out.

What happens? The pencil ends up leaning the other way, doesn't it? It's now unbalanced, but in the opposite direction.

And when you try and put it back, the same will happen.

After some deliberation, you'll finally have it balanced on your finger... but it'll always wobble to and fro.

Think of sexism like that. Women started on the harsh end of things. Right now, though we don't have it nearly as bad as they did, men have it kinda bad. Some people might call it "reverse sexism" even though that makes no fucking sense and they should be slapped. Soon enough, though, it'll balance out, but that inequality will always be there, even if it isn't obvious or huge. The scales will always wobble. We just need to learn to deal with it when it comes.

Here's an idea. Imagine the pencil is double-headed, and then just write with the damn thing because both ends are equal.

 

[orangeban]

Sharon Osbourne isn't a policewoman or a public official. In fact, she's only made a career based on her husband's career and based on talking about shit she doesn't understand. That's what people like her do. Telling all rape victims that they deserve it for "dressing like a slut" isn't too far off from delighting in the torture of another human being. Eff that cop. I say we leave him stranded on a desert island with Sharon Osbourne. And they only eat when they fuck each other. There's your reality show.

The media crusade would love to have you on board lol. He said "You are less likely to be raped if you dont wear provocative clothing" not "You deserve it". He didnt say that at all. SEE! Look what they have done! The crusades DO work. What he said was a bit over the line but it boiled down to "We cant catch every rapist before he commits a crime, you should be allowed to wear whatever you want, but at the end of the day its a FACT that these sick people are more likely to attack you if you are wearing very little". And the media gets up in arms.

What he said was still incorrect and still amounts to blaming the victim.

Lush-sluts wear little clothing and are constantly drunk and consequently make very poor decisions, placing them in vulnerable situations. Guess which of the 2 attracts predators the most?

Forced rape absolutely is about power and not about sexuality. I suspect that date rape is often different, as the date rapists I've been unfortunate enough to know simply lacked the self esteem to hit on sober girls. A predator wishes to place him/herself in a position of power over another. If that predator is attracted to women, it makes sense that he/she would go after them and not men for this reason, in addition to the conventional (and often true) wisdom that women are weaker/easier targets (this also makes them preferred victims of muggers). Why do you suppose that gay rape, and rape and general, are so much more rampant in prison than on the outside? How a woman dresses only matters to a limited amount of serial killers and rapists, and they usually don't target scantily-clad women unless they happen to be the hookers they're already targeting. Some target older, conservatively dressed women. Others target women of wealth. All of these are few relative to target victims of the overwhelming majority of muggers and rapists: women who place/find themselves in vulnerable positions (which probably has more to do with serial killers gravitating toward hookers than sexuality), for the simple reason that it's easier. Reason dictates that, if we haven't yet seen a serial killer/rapist who intentionally targets hard-to-violate women because he/she gets off on it, we will at some point. It further dictates that the perp will be an infinitessimal minority.

The chances of being raped due to the clothing one is wearing is not too far off from catching a case of SARS in Sacramento by the end of next year. If the cop doesn't understand rapists any better than his statements have shown, then he shouldn't be in a position of authority sufficient to be making public statements and he should never ever be let near that department's equivalent of SVU.

And the police told the girls to not dress like sluts. Which is victim-blaming, it says that there is a chance that had the victim not been dressed so scantily she wouldn't have been raped, and therefore it is partly her fault (I say her because the policeman is talking to girls, though I wonder if men were given a version of this talk? Men get raped to you know)

 

[YawningAngel]

Sharon Osbourne isn't a policewoman or a public official. In fact, she's only made a career based on her husband's career and based on talking about shit she doesn't understand. That's what people like her do. Telling all rape victims that they deserve it for "dressing like a slut" isn't too far off from delighting in the torture of another human being. Eff that cop. I say we leave him stranded on a desert island with Sharon Osbourne. And they only eat when they fuck each other. There's your reality show.

The media crusade would love to have you on board lol. He said "You are less likely to be raped if you dont wear provocative clothing" not "You deserve it". He didnt say that at all. SEE! Look what they have done! The crusades DO work. What he said was a bit over the line but it boiled down to "We cant catch every rapist before he commits a crime, you should be allowed to wear whatever you want, but at the end of the day its a FACT that these sick people are more likely to attack you if you are wearing very little". And the media gets up in arms.

What he said was still incorrect and still amounts to blaming the victim.

Lush-sluts wear little clothing and are constantly drunk and consequently make very poor decisions, placing them in vulnerable situations. Guess which of the 2 attracts predators the most?

Forced rape absolutely is about power and not about sexuality. I suspect that date rape is often different, as the date rapists I've been unfortunate enough to know simply lacked the self esteem to hit on sober girls. A predator wishes to place him/herself in a position of power over another. If that predator is attracted to women, it makes sense that he/she would go after them and not men for this reason, in addition to the conventional (and often true) wisdom that women are weaker/easier targets (this also makes them preferred victims of muggers). Why do you suppose that gay rape, and rape and general, are so much more rampant in prison than on the outside? How a woman dresses only matters to a limited amount of serial killers and rapists, and they usually don't target scantily-clad women unless they happen to be the hookers they're already targeting. Some target older, conservatively dressed women. Others target women of wealth. All of these are few relative to target victims of the overwhelming majority of muggers and rapists: women who place/find themselves in vulnerable positions (which probably has more to do with serial killers gravitating toward hookers than sexuality), for the simple reason that it's easier. Reason dictates that, if we haven't yet seen a serial killer/rapist who intentionally targets hard-to-violate women because he/she gets off on it, we will at some point. It further dictates that the perp will be an infinitessimal minority.

The chances of being raped due to the clothing one is wearing is not too far off from catching a case of SARS in Sacramento by the end of next year. If the cop doesn't understand rapists any better than his statements have shown, then he shouldn't be in a position of authority sufficient to be making public statements and he should never ever be let near that department's equivalent of SVU.

And the police told the girls to not dress like sluts. Which is victim-blaming, it says that there is a chance that had the victim not been dressed so scantily she wouldn't have been raped, and therefore it is partly her fault (I say her because the policeman is talking to girls, though I wonder if men were given a version of this talk? Men get raped to you know)

If you leave your house unlocked, your stuff gets stolen. If you cash cheques with a dodgy bank, you get defrauded. If you dress like a slut, get drunk, and walk into a dark alley with a stranger, you get raped. That doesn't make the stranger drugging and raping you OK, but it does make it your fault for acting stupidly in the first place.

 

[orangeban]

Sharon Osbourne isn't a policewoman or a public official. In fact, she's only made a career based on her husband's career and based on talking about shit she doesn't understand. That's what people like her do. Telling all rape victims that they deserve it for "dressing like a slut" isn't too far off from delighting in the torture of another human being. Eff that cop. I say we leave him stranded on a desert island with Sharon Osbourne. And they only eat when they fuck each other. There's your reality show.

The media crusade would love to have you on board lol. He said "You are less likely to be raped if you dont wear provocative clothing" not "You deserve it". He didnt say that at all. SEE! Look what they have done! The crusades DO work. What he said was a bit over the line but it boiled down to "We cant catch every rapist before he commits a crime, you should be allowed to wear whatever you want, but at the end of the day its a FACT that these sick people are more likely to attack you if you are wearing very little". And the media gets up in arms.

What he said was still incorrect and still amounts to blaming the victim.

Lush-sluts wear little clothing and are constantly drunk and consequently make very poor decisions, placing them in vulnerable situations. Guess which of the 2 attracts predators the most?

Forced rape absolutely is about power and not about sexuality. I suspect that date rape is often different, as the date rapists I've been unfortunate enough to know simply lacked the self esteem to hit on sober girls. A predator wishes to place him/herself in a position of power over another. If that predator is attracted to women, it makes sense that he/she would go after them and not men for this reason, in addition to the conventional (and often true) wisdom that women are weaker/easier targets (this also makes them preferred victims of muggers). Why do you suppose that gay rape, and rape and general, are so much more rampant in prison than on the outside? How a woman dresses only matters to a limited amount of serial killers and rapists, and they usually don't target scantily-clad women unless they happen to be the hookers they're already targeting. Some target older, conservatively dressed women. Others target women of wealth. All of these are few relative to target victims of the overwhelming majority of muggers and rapists: women who place/find themselves in vulnerable positions (which probably has more to do with serial killers gravitating toward hookers than sexuality), for the simple reason that it's easier. Reason dictates that, if we haven't yet seen a serial killer/rapist who intentionally targets hard-to-violate women because he/she gets off on it, we will at some point. It further dictates that the perp will be an infinitessimal minority.

The chances of being raped due to the clothing one is wearing is not too far off from catching a case of SARS in Sacramento by the end of next year. If the cop doesn't understand rapists any better than his statements have shown, then he shouldn't be in a position of authority sufficient to be making public statements and he should never ever be let near that department's equivalent of SVU.

And the police told the girls to not dress like sluts. Which is victim-blaming, it says that there is a chance that had the victim not been dressed so scantily she wouldn't have been raped, and therefore it is partly her fault (I say her because the policeman is talking to girls, though I wonder if men were given a version of this talk? Men get raped to you know)

If you leave your house unlocked, your stuff gets stolen. If you cash cheques with a dodgy bank, you get defrauded. If you dress like a slut, get drunk, and walk into a dark alley with a stranger, you get raped. That doesn't make the stranger drugging and raping you OK, but it does make it your fault for acting stupidly in the first place.

Here's the difference between cashing cheques at dodgy banks and dressing scantily. There is no pleasure to be derived from cashing said cheques at said banks, but there is pleasure to be derived from dressing in said clothing. Also, being defrauded generally doesn't cause physcological and physical damage, rape can.

 

[YawningAngel]

There is no pleasure to be derived from wearing clothing (quite the reverse), and every time I get defrauded I die a little inside, plus it's a little more money I can't use to buy chocolate to hasten the inevitable oblivion of death.

 

[orangeban]

There is no pleasure to be derived from wearing clothing (quite the reverse), and every time I get defrauded I die a little inside, plus it's a little more money I can't use to buy chocolate to hasten the inevitable oblivion of death.

Yeah, but some people like doing it, and those people should have the freedom to dress how they want without fear of rape. Besides, most rape happens at home by people you know, clothing has little to do with it.

 

[YawningAngel]

There is no pleasure to be derived from wearing clothing (quite the reverse), and every time I get defrauded I die a little inside, plus it's a little more money I can't use to buy chocolate to hasten the inevitable oblivion of death.

Yeah, but some people like doing it, and those people should have the freedom to dress how they want without fear of rape. Besides, most rape happens at home by people you know, clothing has little to do with it.

I like leaving my door unlocked, I SHOULD be able to do so without fear of burglary, but I can't. Where rape actually happens is beside the point, I'm just discussing the specific quote.

 

[Loner Jo Jo]

More on topic, though, there's some minor sexism against men, sure. But from personal experience, I still find that sexism against women is rampant. Take examples that others have mentioned: the fact that sexual/emotional abuse against women by men is far more publicized that the reverse. Is that because society is sexist against men, or is it because of some antiquated notion that women are the "weak little creatures" that have to be protected from abuse, while a man can handle himself? (Okay, this may be playing the devil's advocate a bit.) On a personal level, though, I spent several years of college hearing from male classmates that I was no good at science, math, or engineering (despite being quite intelligent in those areas, and doing impromptu tutoring for some slightly less sexist peers) simply due to the fact that I happened to have lady parts.

Or maybe it's the fact that, at least when it comes to reported cases, women are still far more likely to be abused by a man than the reverse? Just saying, it's a big problem in our society. I understand your point though. A friend of mine was point blank told that she would fail at computer science because she was a woman. By her professor. Ridiculous.

OP, when it comes to the media, I say ignore all of it. Very rarely are people played realistically, as a human being with flaws and virtues, especially in commercials. I remember that sneaker commercial, and I remember thinking that it was rather offensive. But hey, that's the way the cookie crumbles. Often times, people will be boiled down to trite formulas that are easy for consumers to digest. For every instance of a stereotyped or exploits man in the media, I can promise you there is an equal amount of women.

Considering that there are still far more serious cases of sexism out there, we focus on those first because if we correct those problems, everything else will eventually fall into line. Women still are paid less than men on average. Crime against women is still way too high. The only instance I can think of where white middle class men are actively discriminated against is affirmative actions cases, which is far less likely to occur today than it was in the 70's or 80's. And just to cover my tracks, yes gender based crime does occur against men as well, such as rape or abuse. However, most men won't report when a crime like this happens to them because of fear that they will look weak. This is a serious problem and should be rectified.

 

[Chemical Alia]

I feel like the feminist movement has gotten to an exaggerated level. I had this argument with a friend once about how girls should be able to participate in men sport leagues even if they are disadvantaged.

It isn't about sexism anymore. The genders aren't equal, they have differences besides the sexual organ and voice pitch. Stop dancing around the truth and face it.

Men are displayed as more athletic and stronger than woman because they are.

Blame God, Buddha, Evolution or whatever holds your beliefs, not us. Males are the hunters and warriors, Females care for the young. For some species, it works differently and Females are the stronger fighters. But we aren't that species, we're humans. And that's how it works.

Now, gender equality means that we don't have to restrict these roles according to gender, because everyone is free to do what they want and you shouldn't be denied rights based on your sex. What it DOESN'T mean, is that the genders are literally equal and anyone who says otherwise is sexist.

Because they aren't, and if you think so, you're a delusional twat.

Yet we do restrict people by their gender. There are physically capable women barred from serving in front line combat, and men who are looked down upon by society for choosing to be stay-at-home dads. Skills and interests don't always lie in accordance with gender roles, and generalizations about physical strength, child-raising ability, etc. aren't even universally true.

 

[robert01]

How can a women rape a man, they wouldn't be har, and if they were it wouldn't be rape.

right, because a boner = consent.

Technically, a woman cant rape a man, as its legally defined as penile insertion without the victims consent, and women dont have penies...But in my mind, a woman raping a man was more along the lines of a broom handle up the bum, not viagra induced sex.

Re-read what you wrote. It works both ways. Penile insertion without the victims consent.

Male = victim
Male = penis = insertion without consent = rape victim.

 

[The Dr0w Ranger]

Another thought occurs to me, why does rape even factor in here? Iets a crime of power(as someone pointed out), the men who get raped are predominantly small weakish men, I imagine, and women are as a rule smaller and less muscular than men. Factor in the fact that heterosexuality is more common as well, and its a result of the fact that Straight Big Bad Guys find weak females, not an attitude at all.
Its not ok, I'm not even saying its irrelevant, but it has very thin ties to actual discrimination, as attitude isn't the deciding factor that makes women the primary target, biology really plays more into it.

TL;DR Rapists don't look for targets they have no sexual interest in, and they don't look for targets they are gonna have a hard time overpowering, attitude isn't the point.

 

[DoctorFrankenStein]

How can a women rape a man, they wouldn't be har, and if they were it wouldn't be rape.

I feel like I shouldn't field this but that's not really true. Biologically, guys get hard whether or not they want to. And they may not get hard even though they do want to. The body and the mind are sometimes separate beings altogether.

Not just that, but a woman anally violating an unwilling man with an object is also rape.
But there's still a part of me that wants to say it is not the same thing as a man raping a woman. Both can be equally traumatized by the event, but the man cannot be impregnated.
And there are far too many rich white men out there who want to make it impossible for even a raped woman to get an abortion.
So one causes damage that a good doctor and a psychologist might be able to fix.
And the other can literally ruin the rest of someones natural life.
Apples...
Oranges...
?