Sexism against men

[BiscuitTrouser]

Sharon Osbourne isn't a policewoman or a public official. In fact, she's only made a career based on her husband's career and based on talking about shit she doesn't understand. That's what people like her do. Telling all rape victims that they deserve it for "dressing like a slut" isn't too far off from delighting in the torture of another human being. Eff that cop. I say we leave him stranded on a desert island with Sharon Osbourne. And they only eat when they fuck each other. There's your reality show.

The media crusade would love to have you on board lol. He said "You are less likely to be raped if you dont wear provocative clothing" not "You deserve it". He didnt say that at all. SEE! Look what they have done! The crusades DO work. What he said was a bit over the line but it boiled down to "We cant catch every rapist before he commits a crime, you should be allowed to wear whatever you want, but at the end of the day its a FACT that these sick people are more likely to attack you if you are wearing very little". And the media gets up in arms.

What he said was still incorrect and still amounts to blaming the victim.

Lush-sluts wear little clothing and are constantly drunk and consequently make very poor decisions, placing them in vulnerable situations. Guess which of the 2 attracts predators the most?

Forced rape absolutely is about power and not about sexuality. I suspect that date rape is often different, as the date rapists I've been unfortunate enough to know simply lacked the self esteem to hit on sober girls. A predator wishes to place him/herself in a position of power over another. If that predator is attracted to women, it makes sense that he/she would go after them and not men for this reason, in addition to the conventional (and often true) wisdom that women are weaker/easier targets (this also makes them preferred victims of muggers). Why do you suppose that gay rape, and rape and general, are so much more rampant in prison than on the outside? How a woman dresses only matters to a limited amount of serial killers and rapists, and they usually don't target scantily-clad women unless they happen to be the hookers they're already targeting. Some target older, conservatively dressed women. Others target women of wealth. All of these are few relative to target victims of the overwhelming majority of muggers and rapists: women who place/find themselves in vulnerable positions (which probably has more to do with serial killers gravitating toward hookers than sexuality), for the simple reason that it's easier. Reason dictates that, if we haven't yet seen a serial killer/rapist who intentionally targets hard-to-violate women because he/she gets off on it, we will at some point. It further dictates that the perp will be an infinitessimal minority.

The chances of being raped due to the clothing one is wearing is not too far off from catching a case of SARS in Sacramento by the end of next year. If the cop doesn't understand rapists any better than his statements have shown, then he shouldn't be in a position of authority sufficient to be making public statements and he should never ever be let near that department's equivalent of SVU.

The thing is that i agree with you, but what he said wasnt sexist. It was just fucking stupid. And he didnt really place that much blame on the victim, more talking about positions of vulnerability like you said. There is a massive difference between a stupid comment and a sexist comment. This is the former. He made a snap judgement about a situation that even you said holds a little merit, but was poorly worded and came off very tactless. I dont imagine this man SERIOUSLY thinks ANY woman EVER has "deserved" to get raped or it has been her "fault". He doesnt think that. And i think the people accusing him of thinking it are delusional. He pointed out a factor that in his mind (and it DOES make sense if you dont think too hard) would contribute to the safety of women. I cant walk down the street holding huge bundles of cash. No matter how minute the risk increase the officer was concerned for these women's safety and at no point was implying the deserved it or were at fault. Its the same as tips as how not to get mugged or broken into but a lot less tactful in this case.

Most crimes like this are opportunistic. The criminal will see a drunk, scantily dressed woman and despite not being a "rapist" per say before the incident will be involved in a life of petty crime and act in the moment to commit something as horrific as rape. THis man was trying to prevent that. He should have thought about what he said. But it wasnt sexist. It wasnt against women. It was just very poorly worded. He should have said

"Dont walk home alone on a night out, stick to well lit areas, stick to places you know, dont walk home HAMMERED alone".

These are larger risk factors that i think are fairly evident and self explanatory. The man was stupid, but the extreme outcry and the accusations that he was "blaming" are stupid. Women are VERY VERY angry when they are even the tiniest bit told that a rape can be prevented by simple measures.

"SO ITS OUR FAULT?" "RAPE IS OK NOW?!?" "YOU THINK WE DESERVE IT?!" "YOURE A RAPIST?!" BURN HIM AT THE STAKE!

It can be your "fault" (but not really) if your house is burgled if you leave all the doors and windows open and then leave for a week. It can be your "fault" if you walk down a really really bad area with tonnes of cash on display and a lot of expensive clothes/jewelry.
Its your fault if you park and unlock your expensive car in a street infamous for crime.

Its your "fault" (not really your fault, but this is an action of your own choosing that actively led to the incident so it cant be denied the actions are stupid.) if you get drunk wander down a dark ally yelling loudly wearing just underwear in the middle of the night in a bad area.

Theres a difference. Rape is SUCH a sensitive subject police and officials are too scared to even suggest ways it can be prevented because women viciously attack them. Rape is never their fault even slightly ever. A carjacking can be your fault. But a rape can never ever ever ever even be partially the cause of the victim ever. Even if they did all of the above. By no means does this mean ANYONE deserved it for being stupid. This is the key difference people CANNOT grasp. It means that not taking the smart and easy (its common sense, even IF not a hot women YOU DONT WALK DOWN SHITTY PLACES AT NIGHT ALONE, ive done it, i was mugged, i accept i was fucking stupid) choices to minimize your chances of attack is not a good decision and makes the women seem like she doesnt think a lot about her personal safety.

 

[Griffolion]

I'm not saying men are a repressed minority or any of that nonsense, but..... yeah, the equality thing may have gone a little far in one direction instead of stopping where it should of.

Yeah, these cultural slingshots tend to happen. As soon as a group are given rights or whatever, they take it as far as possible, sometimes at the detriment of another group. It seems that women are more pandered to in society today while any problems men have tend to meet the typical "man up" response. I understand not all women come under this bracket, but if some women in the workplace wish to be treat as equals, stop hiding behind the 'I have THESE rights' chestnut and "woman up" about it.

 

[funguy2121]

snip

Perhaps I had this police officer confused with the Republican politician who DID say that they deserve it. The Tea Partiers do so love to shock us with what they're willing to say. I agree, the cop was being stupid, not sexist.

 

[GabbleDabble]

This is ridiculious. Women are still oppressed and men are still the oppresors.

 

[FreakSheet]

How can a women rape a man, they wouldn't be har, and if they were it wouldn't be rape.

"Getting hard" can be a biological response, but not one the guy may intend.

If a girl got an orgasm during rape? Would it still be rape? Yes, because that's just the body's response.

 

[Da Orky Man]

This is ridiculious. Women are still oppressed and men are still the oppresors.

In what way? I keep on being passed over for jobs because a woman applied too.

 

[chowderface]

This is ridiculious. Women are still oppressed and men are still the oppresors.

In what way? I keep on being passed over for jobs because a woman applied too.

I'll give you one. Some guy on the front page mentioned that woman-on-man abuse or rape is drastically underreported, and when it is reported it's usually laughed out. That only sounds like it favors women because of context.

What that really says is that women are weak. Pathetic. Worthless. What kind of a man are you, they're asking, that even some fucking WOMAN can get the best of you? What happened to your pimp hand?

Basically what I'm saying is, the fact that women get off pretty much scot-free for these crimes is also the reason they only make seventy cents on the dollar compared to men, and are often derided in professional situations.

 

[Da Orky Man]

This is ridiculious. Women are still oppressed and men are still the oppresors.

In what way? I keep on being passed over for jobs because a woman applied too.

I'll give you one. Some guy on the front page mentioned that woman-on-man abuse or rape is drastically underreported, and when it is reported it's usually laughed out. That only sounds like it favors women because of context.

What that really says is that women are weak. Pathetic. Worthless. What kind of a man are you, they're asking, that even some fucking WOMAN can get the best of you? What happened to your pimp hand?

Basically what I'm saying is, the fact that women get off pretty much scot-free for these crimes is also the reason they only make seventy cents on the dollar compared to men, and are often derided in professional situations.

I wasn't primarily thinking about money. There are much better things to contemplate. Women comprise of 65% of university graduates, which shows something. money is not my goal in life.

 

[Something Amyss]

But I'm lying. The genders are switched around. So it has to be equally bad.

Equally bad would mandate equal circumstances. But I agree, because men have traditionally been dominated and treated as inferior for thousands upon thousands of years, right?

Oh, right. Of course not. But men have, recently, been considered the weaker sex, right? And this video was reaffirming it?

Oh, clearly it wasn't.

But surely, men are still fighting for basic human equality across the world, even in the "civilised" first world nations, yes?

Well, no.

It's not "equally bad" because it's not an equal situation.

 

[Something Amyss]

This is ridiculious. Women are still oppressed and men are still the oppresors.

In what way? I keep on being passed over for jobs because a woman applied too.

I find this pretty hard to believe. Especially since that's not what the Affirmative Action bogeyman, which I'm sure is soon to be brought out for our enjoyment, actually does.

 

[Kirex]

I can understand that people get angry at the video that was posted here, you know, the one containing the stupid show for stupid people who laugh at penises getting cut off.
But the thing in the first post... seriously, that commercial is - in my opinion - just something to laugh about. It's not like men are portrayed as cheating idiots 24/7. I mean, really, why complain about something so simple, it's just a little jab, it's like me making a stupid joke about women, I don't mean it, I also make jokes about men, what's the problem? Why are you upset about that?
I don't get it.

I wasn't primarily thinking about money. There are much better things to contemplate. Women comprise of 65% of university graduates, which shows something. money is not my goal in life.

But they still don't get enough money. That is a problem right there and it doesn't matter if it is your goal in life, you still need it, right?
I don't think universities are selective in regards to gender, at least they're not doing that here. There could simply be more women applying for university, there could be more women who finish(compared to men). As long as you don't know the reasons for this circumstance you can't just outright say it's sexism.

 

[Da Orky Man]

I can understand that people get angry at the video that was posted here, you know, the one containing the stupid show for stupid people who laugh at penises getting cut off.
But the thing in the first post... seriously, that commercial is - in my opinion - just something to laugh about. It's not like men are portrayed as cheating idiots 24/7. I mean, really, why complain about something so simple, it's just a little jab, it's like me making a stupid joke about women, I don't mean it, I also make jokes about men, what's the problem? Why are you upset about that?
I don't get it.

I wasn't primarily thinking about money. There are much better things to contemplate. Women comprise of 65% of university graduates, which shows something. money is not my goal in life.

But they still don't get enough money. That is a problem right there and it doesn't matter if it is your goal in life, you still need it, right?
I don't think universities are selective in regards to gender, at least they're not doing that here. There could simply be more women applying for university, there could be more women who finish(compared to men). As long as you don't know the reasons for this circumstance you can't just outright say it's sexism.

And you just showed my exact point. Women get more university places because they study harder and just tend to do better academically. Men tend to get better paid jobs because women may apply for maternity leave at any point, losing the company money. So they recoup their losses by paying less.

 

[AdumbroDeus]

More on topic, though, there's some minor sexism against men, sure. But from personal experience, I still find that sexism against women is rampant. Take examples that others have mentioned: the fact that sexual/emotional abuse against women by men is far more publicized that the reverse. Is that because society is sexist against men, or is it because of some antiquated notion that women are the "weak little creatures" that have to be protected from abuse, while a man can handle himself? (Okay, this may be playing the devil's advocate a bit.) On a personal level, though, I spent several years of college hearing from male classmates that I was no good at science, math, or engineering (despite being quite intelligent in those areas, and doing impromptu tutoring for some slightly less sexist peers) simply due to the fact that I happened to have lady parts.

Or maybe it's the fact that, at least when it comes to reported cases, women are still far more likely to be abused by a man than the reverse? Just saying, it's a big problem in our society. I understand your point though. A friend of mine was point blank told that she would fail at computer science because she was a woman. By her professor. Ridiculous.

OP, when it comes to the media, I say ignore all of it. Very rarely are people played realistically, as a human being with flaws and virtues, especially in commercials. I remember that sneaker commercial, and I remember thinking that it was rather offensive. But hey, that's the way the cookie crumbles. Often times, people will be boiled down to trite formulas that are easy for consumers to digest. For every instance of a stereotyped or exploits man in the media, I can promise you there is an equal amount of women.

Considering that there are still far more serious cases of sexism out there, we focus on those first because if we correct those problems, everything else will eventually fall into line. Women still are paid less than men on average. Crime against women is still way too high. The only instance I can think of where white middle class men are actively discriminated against is affirmative actions cases, which is far less likely to occur today than it was in the 70's or 80's. And just to cover my tracks, yes gender based crime does occur against men as well, such as rape or abuse. However, most men won't report when a crime like this happens to them because of fear that they will look weak. This is a serious problem and should be rectified.

Frankly, the rub is this, the cases of discrimination against men are blatant outgrowths of sexist attitudes toward women. Why is it that abuse against men by women is much more common then the reverse (source: http://www.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm) but the societal image is that abuse by men against women is more common? Because of the societal attitude that women are weaker and subservient, so men feel too emasculated to report it. This subservient ideal is the same reason why men are expected to pay, but also why women get paid less in jobs and many other societal factors. Similarly, the idea that women are the nurturing sort are why women get an advantage in custody proceedings. Certainly people have brought up issues with holding doors and the like, but that's just a minor issue, the meat is in things like divorce proceedings and those truly show society's bigoted attitude.


In the long term fight for feminism, "female privilege" is just as much a stumbling block because it reinforces attitudes that are counter to feminist ideals.

 

[Infernostrider]

i've been saying this for a few years now; emancipation seems to be about the downfall of the average, adult white male.

it sounds ridiculous, doesnt it? the adult white male is and always has been in the greatest position of power. and emancipation is about dragging other people up so we are all equals.

and however great as that message is, i have found the result doesnt live up to the ideal.

Wether you are a woman, a colored person, or worse, both, you will have learned to endure the bad taste of being discriminated in the west (i'm horrible at metaphores). For the white woman, it's not as bad as it was 20 years ago. You can vote, you can tell your husband to go screw himself without being beaten back into the kitchen. Yet you are still, in all likelyhood, making less money than the guy sitting next to you at work doing the exact same thing....and has been doing so for less time than you as well! And lets not forget, being skipped over for promotions because you MIGHT want kids some day? As for the colored person; well asians tend to make their own businesses, and honestly i dont know much here...neither will i claim to have much factual knowledge about black people. I can, however, tell you that a lot of the job offers you replied to you got turned down because of you having a foreign sounding name, or, failing that, just from having seen you in an actual interview.

A lot of this is subconscious. A lot of it isn't.

Fact remains: its not just about sexism. it's about discrimination in general. You do it, i do it, everybody does it. And now we're finally working hard to stop doing that, to give everyone who isnt an average, adult white male an honest, equal chance....

We are getting it flung right back at us, into our faces. These people are, often times, abusing the shit out of the emancipation thing. We, the adult white males of the present, are facing similar levels of dicrimination from all other groups as was once the case of us doing to the. Or, to be exact; of our ancestors doing to theirs.

Now, i'm not one to carry grudges to the grandson of the dude who kicked my grandfather in the gnads, so all of that seems a bit silly to me....but thats not that big a deal here. That the discrimination is going on in the first place, however, is. We were wrong. We know this. We are working to better ourselves.

We need to be equals. I don't care wether you're male or female, fat or thin, black or white, smart or dumb....All men were not created equal, but we can make OURSELVES equal. Do not look down on your fellow human. do not look up at him either.

this post feels kind of incomplete >< so..if anyone would care to pick up?

NOTE: sorry for the wall of text, and for maybe hijacking the thread....equality is a sensitive subject for me, mainly because, as i said, it's going the opposite way ><

 

[Zeema]

This is ridiculious. Women are still oppressed and men are still the oppresors.

Yes buts that not always the Case men can also be Sexually oppressed by Women as well it goes both ways. also going and saying that the OP is the and im quoting you here 'sex-driven, sexist, evil, rape supporting MEN'. just says that you do not Pay attention to the start of the thread.

Your ignorant and incorrect.

 

[Loner Jo Jo]

Or maybe it's the fact that, at least when it comes to reported cases, women are still far more likely to be abused by a man than the reverse? Just saying, it's a big problem in our society. I understand your point though. A friend of mine was point blank told that she would fail at computer science because she was a woman. By her professor. Ridiculous.

OP, when it comes to the media, I say ignore all of it. Very rarely are people played realistically, as a human being with flaws and virtues, especially in commercials. I remember that sneaker commercial, and I remember thinking that it was rather offensive. But hey, that's the way the cookie crumbles. Often times, people will be boiled down to trite formulas that are easy for consumers to digest. For every instance of a stereotyped or exploits man in the media, I can promise you there is an equal amount of women.

Considering that there are still far more serious cases of sexism out there, we focus on those first because if we correct those problems, everything else will eventually fall into line. Women still are paid less than men on average. Crime against women is still way too high. The only instance I can think of where white middle class men are actively discriminated against is affirmative actions cases, which is far less likely to occur today than it was in the 70's or 80's. And just to cover my tracks, yes gender based crime does occur against men as well, such as rape or abuse. However, most men won't report when a crime like this happens to them because of fear that they will look weak. This is a serious problem and should be rectified.

Frankly, the rub is this, the cases of discrimination against men are blatant outgrowths of sexist attitudes toward women. Why is it that abuse against men by women is much more common then the reverse (source: http://www.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm) but the societal image is that abuse by men against women is more common? Because of the societal attitude that women are weaker and subservient, so men feel too emasculated to report it. This subservient ideal is the same reason why men are expected to pay, but also why women get paid less in jobs and many other societal factors. Similarly, the idea that women are the nurturing sort are why women get an advantage in custody proceedings. Certainly people have brought up issues with holding doors and the like, but that's just a minor issue, the meat is in things like divorce proceedings and those truly show society's bigoted attitude.


In the long term fight for feminism, "female privilege" is just as much a stumbling block because it reinforces attitudes that are counter to feminist ideals.

According to the Department of Health and Human Services, no. (http://www.womenshealth.gov/publications/federal-reports/OneDepartment-VAW-2009-2010.pdf pg 3) One in every four women suffers from abuse and one in every thirteen men is in the same position. Mind you, these are probably just reported cases. However, according to a series of studies done in Canada, one in eight men are abused. (http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/ncfv-cnivf/publications/mlintima-eng.php) These are not based upon criminal reports but surveys, so more men might be more willing to admit to these goings on if there is no chance of legal recourse to "complicate" matters.

Still, I would argue that men are more likely to suffer from "minor" abuse. Minor is any physical action that is not intended to harm or cause injury. In Canada's survey, they counted both minor and severe, but did not distinguish between the two. I think there's a big difference. While neither is right, I would say that minor abuse is pretty common. I know most women will pop a man on the arm or something to that affect when she is displeased. I do it, and have done it in the past month. It does not result in any bruising or significant pain, but ethically and legally, it is still wrong. However, because of this idea of "breaking free" from the "subservient role," women feel like they can hit a man in this manner, but because he is a man, he should be able to take it. I would argue that majority of men probably suffer from this abuse, if you define it as such, and that there is a double standard here. Women can do this to men and not suffer consequences, but if a man pops a woman on the arm, then that is still just as wrong as severe abuse.

Despite this, I would argue women are more likely to suffer from severe abuse than men. The numbers might be evenly matched, but that fact of the matter is, women are still considered weaker, and often times, physically, they are. People who are in need of counseling or possibly more depending (and I don't mean this as an insult; I am being sincere) have control issues. As an educated guess, I would say that men abuse women physically or emotionally to boost their own self-esteem or to confirm their masculinity. Women would abuse men because she feels trapped or cornered so by abusing she takes the dominant role. (Not saying this is the man's fault. It is probably an extension of something from her past, not the present.)

Also, as a side note, I would argue that while connected, there is a gap between discrimination and abuse. Everyone discriminates, or really, is prejudiced. It may not be consistently and they may not even act on their thought patterns, but everyone has their biases. Here's the difference between sexism and racism, for example. To make assumptions about one race will not apply to all people. In fact, there is no scientific basis for race. However, there is a genetic basis for sex. While gender and sex are not the same thing, the fact of the matter is, women are biologically meant to be mothers. Because they have that role to fill, we as a society have set it up to aid them in this process, and because a women who is going to have children would need protection, men fill that role. (You can't deny that a pregnant women or a woman that has just had a child would need someone to take care of her. If you've ever interacted with a woman who is 8 or 9 months pregnant, you would clearly know why.)

The feminist movement helped society see that certain traits such as intelligence or strength do not make a woman a bad mother or any less of a woman. While we are still working on this ideal, we have made great strides and continue to. The problem is now the role of men. As women become more self-sufficient, the role of the provider is dying. Really, in my opinion, I think we need to now focus on how to make boys better fathers, not in the "bringing home the bacon" sense, but in the loving, caring, nurturing sense. When we as a society can accept that these traits don't make a man less of a man, we'll be better off. But that is a long way away in my opinion.

 

[Alandoril]

As genders we are not equal. As humans we are equal.

Men and women will never be truly equal unless gender is seen as nothing other than an aspect of reproduction rather than a defining personal characteristic.

And frankly the whole gender wars thing and feminism and such was a massive coup for corporations and governments. It allowed them to push society in a direction where for working class people running a household requires two incomes.