Sexsim: have the tables actually turned?

[Daddy Go Bot]

No. And the handful of misguided attempts to convince anyone otherwise are pretty laughable given the tremendous statistical and anecdotal evidence that countless women could otherwise provide. But given the state of the internet and some gamers you'll no doubt find misogyny to be prevalent and stating otherwise.

Would you say that the overarching problem with gender equality lies with misogyny?

The over-arching problem is prejudice and hatred, regardless of what people it's towards. Misandry (hatred of men) is just as bad and detrimental to equality. I threw in misogyny because of the notion that somehow the "tables had turned" and that men somehow had it worse than women. That is a laughable notion, but in retrospect it isn't the most accurate word to use.

I'd personally go as far as to say that men do indeed have it worse off than women do in our current modern society.

I'd say we're more equal now than we've ever been, and getting increasingly more so all the time. Dudes bitching about women getting more rights and the feminist movement are just pissed that they have to share and that their lives aren't as easy as they used to be.

Pretty much this. Women are MORE equal than before but not the same. There are professions that are male and female. Ask people how they feel about male vs. female nurses; and why. Or teachers. Those are both seen as 'mothering' or 'nurturing' positions. There is a real prejudice against men in nursing. Feminism is about equality, not female superiority. If we're talking world wide vs. 'western civilization' then women are far from equal. They occupy fewer executive positions and are paid less. Not to mention the deficit of human rights such as voting, driving and going outside their homes without escort. This is much like the response of some heterosexual males to Bioware's inclusive games; your seat at the table isn't being taken away -- more seats are being added.

Feminism by definition can not be about equality. Those who believe this and actually support the feminist movement are nothing but useful idiots.

Rights to vote were never based on sex, they were based on class. The "glass ceiling" is a bullshit theory that doesn't exist and never has. The wage gap myth has been debunked so many times I'm honestly surprised people still bring it up to this very day.

 

[Salokin]

So, pulling this from a ragecomic, which got its sources from wikipedia, so don't quote me on any of this buuut:
-Men make about $43,317 annually, while women make about $33,075
-Assuming they each attend college for four years after they turn 18, and retire 65, both have a working career of 43 years
-The man will gross $1,862,631, the woman will gross $1,422,225, a difference of $44,406
Pay attention now, because this is where the tables turn-
-When the man turns 18 he MUST sign up for the Selective Service (aka The Draft)
-If he feels this is unfair and chooses not to sign up to enjoy the same rights as a woman, who let me remind you doesn't have to sign up for The Draft, he goes to jail for 5 years and is fined $250,000
-He has now lost a quarter million dollars plus 5 potential working years, a total loss of about $466,585
-And lets not forget that after this the man will pretty much be obligated to pay for any date he goes on with a woman and add in drinks from clubs, at two dates a month and two trips to the club (what else is he going to do after 5 years in prison?) this adds up to about $200 a month, after 10 years that's $24,000
-So in total men subtract $490,585 from their lifetime earnings if they want to just enjoy this one liberty that woman have.
Hope you enjoyed the maths and my first post.

 

[Hamburger_Time]

Wow, I never knew that I am currently living under the jackboot of a feminazi gynocracy!

Ah yes, the good ol' shaming tactics. Might wanna try something new?

I'm sorry, It's just the way people are speaking you'd think that we live in some sort of Orwellian feminist dystopia, complete with "Femsoc" and "The Vag Police".

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

If we're talking purely from a societal standpoint, without bringing jobs into it (Because being a first year university student I'm hardly experienced enough to know what the gender situation is like in real jobs), I can pretty comfortably say that women have it better off. They can get away with more, and they are generally considered to be less bad natured. There are so many things that a woman could get away with that guys would be judged so harshly against. A great example of this is hugging kids. In my summer job I do a fair bit of work with kids, and occassionally one of the kids tries to hug me. Instantly I get dirty looks from half of the parents. When the females who I work with do the same thing there is absolutely no judgement against it.

Another example is in relationships, typically when there's a shouting match or argument between a couple it's the man who's demonized. I seem to remember seeing a video on one of the topics here that did a study where they had a couple fighting on a park bench, in one scenario the man was shouting at the woman, in the other, the woman was shouting at the man. In the first scenario there was quite a bit of intervention, people rushing in to save the woman from their abusive husband. In the second scenario it took a much longer time for people to actually do anything about it. They all assumed that the guy had done something to deserve it.

I can't really think of examples in society where it works the other way, if someone can come up with one please do share. I would greatly like to be proven wrong about this. Of course I'm only referring to society, from a physical standpoint women really get the short end of the stick.

 

[Vault101]

No. And the handful of misguided attempts to convince anyone otherwise are pretty laughable given the tremendous statistical and anecdotal evidence that countless women could otherwise provide. But given the state of the internet and some gamers you'll no doubt find misogyny to be prevalent and stating otherwise.

.

never about sex? correct me If Im wrong but Im pretty sure back in the day women, regardless of class could not vote because they were women

 

[Kakashi on crack]

Women still have to deal with shit that men don't have to, and you can't say the same about the opposite.

Um, yeah you could. If you went by a case by case basis, I'm definitely sure you could find a situation where a man is dealing with unfair treatment based on his gender.

*raises hand* Try being the only straight guy in a GSA club full of lesbians... I'm basically condemned by the majority of them for having a Y-chromosome

then there was my summer job in which my managers/co-workers flat out told me that they were giving me all the hard jobs (mostly heavy lifting) cause I was the only guy who worked at the front who wasn't a supervisor.

I could probably think of half a dozen cases

Biggest source of inequality among the sexes? One word: Boobs.

They have them, we don't.

Well actually if you're like me and sat in your mother's womb for a week or so too long... Lets just say that it sucks cause you get both guys and gals fucking joking about it all the time/grabbing at them for no other reason than being a guy with breast tissue... Men do not want boobs on a mass scale -_-

More prone to violence? Last I checked in domestic cases women actually hit more often, it just happens that when guys hit they do more damage.

At school I typically get punched by a guy about once a week... I get punched by at least 3-5 girls on a daily basis simply because they hang out around me and assume I have a tolerance to pain because I'm a guy and won't say anything about it... (which is true because they punch like shit, but not the point) If I did anything remotely similar to them though, I'd be suspended in five seconds flat... This is one of those things that piss me off about violence and who can get away with it...

I'd say we're more equal now than we've ever been, and getting increasingly more so all the time. Dudes bitching about women getting more rights and the feminist movement are just pissed that they have to share and that their lives aren't as easy as they used to be.

I've had opportunities passed off to women because of more or less Affirmative Action, work placed on me because I was a male at my job, teachers who kicked me out of the classroom because I'd argue with a girl BECAUSE I was arguing with a girl, I was nearly expelled from middle school because a girl lied to the VP and told them that I was sexually harrassing them, a teacher who counted me absent for two weeks straight because I mentioned that I felt women got preferential treatment, constantly am physically attacked at school by women because I'm a guy, even though I'd get in huge-ass trouble if I did half the shit they did, and many other things.

DO NOT tell me that I'm FUCKING BITCHING about women getting more rights. I have fully supported feminism when its a decent cause, but I am sick and tired of this arguement about women not getting treated equally. Because in hindsight, I have more or less been PERSECUTED and treated like a second class citizen my entire life because I have a penis!


God damn, after reading this first page of comments, I'm staying away from this thread.

 

[Daddy Go Bot]

No. And the handful of misguided attempts to convince anyone otherwise are pretty laughable given the tremendous statistical and anecdotal evidence that countless women could otherwise provide. But given the state of the internet and some gamers you'll no doubt find misogyny to be prevalent and stating otherwise.

.

never about sex? correct me If Im wrong but Im pretty sure back in the day women, regardless of class could not vote because they were women

And there was a time where men couldn't either. Only land owners could.

 

[Divine Miss Bee]

Two words. Affirmative Action. Makes it so much easier for any woman to find a good job than a man looking for the same.

not true! me and the only other woman i know have been looking for work for six months and haven't found peanuts. meanwhile every man i know walks in off the street and gets hired.

 

[Daddy Go Bot]

Two words. Affirmative Action. Makes it so much easier for any woman to find a good job than a man looking for the same.

not true! me and the only other woman i know have been looking for work for six months and haven't found peanuts. meanwhile every man i know walks in off the street and gets hired.

Well that totally changes everything! Damn you, patriarchy!

 

[Partezan]

I'v had my boss blatantly say "we have too many guys working here so we need to hire some women", It's not, "we need to hire who is best for the job". Naturally because they want to hire women discrimination doesn't fly, women are the most privileged class in society and they still complain and blame men for their own shortcomings.

 

[Divine Miss Bee]

Two words. Affirmative Action. Makes it so much easier for any woman to find a good job than a man looking for the same.

not true! me and the only other woman i know have been looking for work for six months and haven't found peanuts. meanwhile every man i know walks in off the street and gets hired.

Well that totally changes everything! Damn you, patriarchy!

i don't know if it's patriarchy or not, just an observation. it seems easier for men, just because of the wider range of jobs available. in a bad economy, the failproof jobs are hiring, which means a lot of shipping, manual labor, and tech jobs that people think women can't do. i've been denied by UPS, FedEx, and Costco so far because they think i can't lift crates. sexism in action!

 

[Daddy Go Bot]

Two words. Affirmative Action. Makes it so much easier for any woman to find a good job than a man looking for the same.

not true! me and the only other woman i know have been looking for work for six months and haven't found peanuts. meanwhile every man i know walks in off the street and gets hired.

Well that totally changes everything! Damn you, patriarchy!

i don't know if it's patriarchy or not, just an observation. it seems easier for men, just because of the wider range of jobs available. in a bad economy, the failproof jobs are hiring, which means a lot of shipping, manual labor, and tech jobs that people think women can't do. i've been denied by UPS, FedEx, and Costco so far because they think i can't lift crates. sexism in action!

The tech thing is a load of bollocks, but I can't argue against jobs that require physical labor. Men are simply better suited for those kind of jobs.

But hey, you might have some luck finding a job that needs to fill some female quotas.

 

[Vault101]

I'd note that the education system in many western nations is geared towards women as well. I'm a sophomore in university, and i remember the average enrollment in all of the colleges i applied to being something in the area of 55% women to 45% men, sometimes reaching as high as 60% women. As far as i'm aware, men and women are neurologically predisposed to favor particular styles of learning. (i read this article a while back and don't remember the particular one, so you'll have to forgive me for not citing sources). GENERALLY, women tend to learn more collaboratively and men tend to learn more especially with physical aids. The modern education system tends to favor the female learning style more.

But of course we tend to ignore this because it's not women who get the short end of the stick.

What you're talking about is summed up pretty nicely in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgvrzMpHJwQ

Im not sure I totally buy the end of the video, which was basically saying "woman can't and WONT ever do anything meaningful for hunamity, genius is strictly a male thing"

 

[Daddy Go Bot]

I'd note that the education system in many western nations is geared towards women as well. I'm a sophomore in university, and i remember the average enrollment in all of the colleges i applied to being something in the area of 55% women to 45% men, sometimes reaching as high as 60% women. As far as i'm aware, men and women are neurologically predisposed to favor particular styles of learning. (i read this article a while back and don't remember the particular one, so you'll have to forgive me for not citing sources). GENERALLY, women tend to learn more collaboratively and men tend to learn more especially with physical aids. The modern education system tends to favor the female learning style more.

But of course we tend to ignore this because it's not women who get the short end of the stick.

What you're talking about is summed up pretty nicely in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgvrzMpHJwQ

Im not sure I totally buy the end of the video, which was basically saying "woman can't and WONT ever do anything meaningful for hunamity, genius is strictly a male thing"

Name one slightly significant thing invented by a woman. Go on, I'll wait.

I'm not sure what it exactly is, but I think testosterone is the big driver here.

 

[Srs bzns]

No, we aren't. Women still have to deal with shit that men don't have to, and you can't say the same about the opposite. I have no idea why everyone on the internet is so against feminism.

Here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JA4EPRbWhQ&feature=related

They're not all like this, but like the annoying kids in certain gaming communities they tend to be the most vocal.

For the record, feminism now seems, to me at least, to be not about gender equality but female superiority.

 

[Divine Miss Bee]

Two words. Affirmative Action. Makes it so much easier for any woman to find a good job than a man looking for the same.

not true! me and the only other woman i know have been looking for work for six months and haven't found peanuts. meanwhile every man i know walks in off the street and gets hired.

Well that totally changes everything! Damn you, patriarchy!

i don't know if it's patriarchy or not, just an observation. it seems easier for men, just because of the wider range of jobs available. in a bad economy, the failproof jobs are hiring, which means a lot of shipping, manual labor, and tech jobs that people think women can't do. i've been denied by UPS, FedEx, and Costco so far because they think i can't lift crates. sexism in action!

The tech thing is a load of bollocks, but I can't argue against jobs that require physical labor. Men are simply better suited for those kind of jobs.

But hey, you might have some luck finding a job that needs to fill some female quotas.

meh. i hate affirmative action, and don't indicate my race or gender on blind applications. it's still sexism, even if it's taken in the other direction than it has been previously, and i still don't like it. i'm a feminist, not a sexist, and don't especially want to work for a company that just wants me to be "the girl one."

 

[Guilherme Zoldan]

Not really, there are inequities for both sexes but women still got it a bit worse on first world countries.
Men do have it worse on some issues though, such as parental rights and some work benefits, which comes from the same old prejudices that give problems to women.

I do have a problem with this femnazi culture where a men cant even hit on a girl without being called a pig.

 

[Vault101]

I'd note that the education system in many western nations is geared towards women as well. I'm a sophomore in university, and i remember the average enrollment in all of the colleges i applied to being something in the area of 55% women to 45% men, sometimes reaching as high as 60% women. As far as i'm aware, men and women are neurologically predisposed to favor particular styles of learning. (i read this article a while back and don't remember the particular one, so you'll have to forgive me for not citing sources). GENERALLY, women tend to learn more collaboratively and men tend to learn more especially with physical aids. The modern education system tends to favor the female learning style more.

But of course we tend to ignore this because it's not women who get the short end of the stick.

What you're talking about is summed up pretty nicely in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgvrzMpHJwQ

Im not sure I totally buy the end of the video, which was basically saying "woman can't and WONT ever do anything meaningful for hunamity, genius is strictly a male thing"

Name one slightly significant thing invented by a woman. Go on, I'll wait.

I'm not sure what it exactly is, but I think testosterone is the big driver here.

well mabye you have to look at other things other than "women never did any of the big inventions..see!! SEE!! man are smarter!!"

like ok, back then a women would be less likley to get that kind of education, for obvious reasons and even if they did even less likley to pursue such an acedemic feild or pursiut, (because we all knew back then youre a women, you must end up with a man, tis the way of things)

and you cant deny back then that men probably wouldnt have given a women scientist/inventor all much respect "a women inventor? haw haw my good man what an outragous Idea! *adjusts monocle and takes a sip of brandy*"

and going on one of your points as far as all the big inventions go...somtimes its not all about the talent and dedication..its the "competitive" factcor and alot of geniuses got left out of the spotlight (corrent me if Im wrong but it seems Eddison was kind of a hack..a genius hack at least)

but the main issue here is that for some reason women dont do the hard sciences...is this a biological thing OR could it be cultrual? Im no expert so I have no Idea but...well just saying, I dont think women any any stupider than men in general, mabye we just have more "smarts" in different areas?

 

[Daddy Go Bot]

I'd note that the education system in many western nations is geared towards women as well. I'm a sophomore in university, and i remember the average enrollment in all of the colleges i applied to being something in the area of 55% women to 45% men, sometimes reaching as high as 60% women. As far as i'm aware, men and women are neurologically predisposed to favor particular styles of learning. (i read this article a while back and don't remember the particular one, so you'll have to forgive me for not citing sources). GENERALLY, women tend to learn more collaboratively and men tend to learn more especially with physical aids. The modern education system tends to favor the female learning style more.

But of course we tend to ignore this because it's not women who get the short end of the stick.

What you're talking about is summed up pretty nicely in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgvrzMpHJwQ

Im not sure I totally buy the end of the video, which was basically saying "woman can't and WONT ever do anything meaningful for hunamity, genius is strictly a male thing"

Name one slightly significant thing invented by a woman. Go on, I'll wait.

I'm not sure what it exactly is, but I think testosterone is the big driver here.

well mabye you have to look at other things other than "women never did any of the big inventions..see!! SEE!! man are smarter!!"

like ok, back then a women would be less likley to get that kind of education, for obvious reasons and even if they did even less likley to pursue such an acedemic feild or pursiut, (because we all knew back then youre a women, you must end up with a man, tis the way of things)

and you cant deny back then that men probably wouldnt have given a women scientist/inventor all much respect "a women inventor? haw haw my good man what an outragous Idea! *adjusts monocle and takes a sip of brandy*"

and going on one of your points as far as all the big inventions go...somtimes its not all about the talent and dedication..its the "competitive" factcor and alot of geniuses got left out of the spotlight (corrent me if Im wrong but it seems Eddison was kind of a hack..a genius hack at least)

but the main issue here is that for some reason women dont do the hard sciences...is this a biological thing OR could it be cultrual? Im no expert so I have no Idea but...well just saying, I dont think women any any stupider than men in general, mabye we just have more "smarts" in different areas?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Curie

Credit is given where it's due. Always has been.

And you might not know this but the biggest and brightest minds in human history come from little to no formal education (Da Vinci, the Wright brothers, Edison, and the list goes on).

You might also ask yourself why women don't pursue the same fields that men do - It's because they simply do not want to. Men's and women's brains simply work differently from each other.

We're not different because were raised certain ways, men and women are simply two different entities.

 

[thespyisdead]

i'm studying engineering right now, and the grand total of females in our whole year, out of 120 people, is 3, however, should these go through with their studies to the end (in the country where i live, it's ridiculously easy to change your college/university) they will be alway taken into the job over the men, because they are women

i guess this situation depends on where you are in life, and stuff.