This is like scientific method 101 stuff. I'm not sure why you're still struggling with it after it's already been explained multiple times.
Sexual harassment and rape allegations rapidly being fired off against various streamers
- Thread starter Specter Von Baren
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This is like scientific method 101 stuff. I'm not sure why you're still struggling with it after it's already been explained multiple times.
Ah, I see.
But stroop didn't say anything about him getting rejected or how he acted, nor is he even justifying the actions of people who do react badly, so where are you getting this from?
You say that but hasn't pretty much everyone responding to that bit of your post said that actually yes they would turn down random sex? Kind of feel like your maths is off if 100% of the answers you're actually getting go against what you say should be happening
Trying to claim self-selection bias when the population itself and scope of the analytics are users of online dating services. And acting like selection bias cannot be corrected with secondary sampling, sample indicator analysis, weighting, and post-stratification.
[Hint: all customer experience analytics inherently suffer from selection bias. The entire field is based around correcting for it, and in fact nowadays relies upon it as response rate is a better performance indicator in and of itself than randomized sampling. And if it didn't work, Amazon -- again -- wouldn't have a trillion-dollar market cap.]
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Probably because all the guys they know think the same way so they feel it's the truth. It happens. People tend to hang around with people with similar thought processes, interests etc and forget that lots of people don't think the same way or don't even entertain the idea in the first place.
In the same way I find some of the stuff said in this thread to be so mind boggling and find it difficult to comprehend how people think like this because I just don't have any IRL experience of people with these views. The internet is the only place I see this shit. I mean, I do get it at a basic level, but my reaction is still still very much "WTF? How do you get like that".
- Apr 1, 2009
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No, but the way he talks about it is implying it. Him going on about woman having the 'luxury of choice' and all his talk about 20 80 and talking about incels. It adds up to him saying 'these women are stuck up and need to give men attention.' Not necessarily sex, but attention, which they don't. I don't think he will ever come out and just say it, but its where his path of argument leads.
What do you think he is saying with his arguments so far in this thread?
See, that's a stretch. It's not what he says, it's just the way he talks about it. There's nothing tangible, nothing actual that you can point to in order to prove your claim, but you're convinced nonetheless, because of *gestures wildly*?
It's more likely some kind of cognitive bias on your end. That's my opinion.
That men have a harder time getting a date/having sex than women do. That was what he said back in #96 and then everything since then has been people arguing with him about it.
Your aggression is noted.
However, we're talking about a subjective thing. Did you read the article that I linked? Did you see the 'method' they used? They shared some pictures of the men that were rated. The author of the article said they are fine looking men. Where I was raised, those men would be considered weaklings. I'm not going to address who they are as a person, because I don't know who they are. They also look pleasant. But where I'm from, half of your attractiveness is your ability to handle yourself. Being able to punch and kick really hard genuinely cultivated interest in some women where there was none before. And just like with all cases with groups, there were women who didn't give a crap.
But my point is thus. Again, without trying to be negative to the guys they shared, they are not objectively attractive. It's not a quantifiable thing. So many things go into what is attractive that it's astounding that people still try to have an catch-all definition. There is no machine that I can aim at their faces and get a 8.8 out of 10 on the Sexiest Man Alive scale.
You know what's hot now? Beards. You know what's always been hot? Muscles. I do not see an overabundance on any of these men.
And Amazon? They have actual metrics. More people are buying Apple than android (made that up, don't know). More people are searching for Kettlebells than free weights, but they are ultimately buying free weights (again, don't know). Out of the amount of people who look up sexy lingerie to buy, 27% live in the south and 73% live in the north. Those are hard data. Those are facts. That's something that can't be taken as "Yeah, 73% are shipped to addresses in the north, but what if they are fronts for people who will ship it down into the south?!". Those items were purchased by people who lived in those addresses. You have objective data.
Target buys data of people who are tracked by their search engine. Netflix does the same. These are things that are quantifiable, once again.
There are people of all genders who just look at pictures when they are bored on Dating sites. There are people who just visit in the hopes that you'll message them back, or heaven forbid, misclicked. There are women who will message everyone who messages them back, and there are guys who will copy and paste the same message hoping they'll get a bite. I do not put that much stock on 'data' that was collected that is subjective.
Because I dare you to find a perfect 10 that every person in the world will agree on. It's impossible. Just like how I might not think those guys are the best looking guy there is, there are a thousand women and men out there who think one of those men are the perfect guy. Dating and attraction is All Subjective.
Again, I really don't know what you're talking about. I pointed out legitimate reasons why dating is much, much harder for men. The vast majority of men not having the luxury of choice women have being the most important one. You are the one insinuating here not me. To put it even more clear for you; that dating is unfair for men isn't even women's fault. I even said in my first post attraction is precognitive ie having very little control over who you find desirable. And yes, nature deeply favors fertile women in the mating process. Every statistic simply proves how women are by far the pickier sex. For simple supply & demand reasons. Most men are high in supply and low in demand. For most women it's vice versa. Again the facts: 1 in 3 young men not having sex in the prime of their life. The vast majority of men getting no replies on dating apps. The incel phenomena.
Really if you can't connect those dots I don't know what to say. And also, again, you can point out how things are unfair without automatically leading to some kind of conclusion women should ever do anything against their will. That says more about you than me.
The misunderstanding between the sexes will continue to persist as long as everyone is conforming to this same, fake bullshit script instead of being open and honest. It takes effort to understand eachother's perspective and I see many white knights and male 'feminists' sympathizing with female issues but very few women making an actual effort to understand the frustration and deep lonelineness so many men experience and that is completely alien to them because of luxury of choice. It's always that same tired cliche of men being these guilt-ridden dumb sheep who need to repent for some almighty 'patriarchy' that have kept women repressed and how they are pigs for harassing women. Women being better off in almost every aspect but always succesfully playing the victim here.
Anything I said in this thread was simply a counterpoint to that.
Yes, you showed you don't actually know what you're talking about and we've already established why, you just declined to engage.
- Nov 27, 2009
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Hey as amusing as I find this thread, I think it'll be better for the sanity of all involved if you agree to disagree, I say this because this has just been a he said she said argument for quite a few pages and you're just going around in circles and haven't really brought up any new points in a while, not to mention that this discussion about incels and women's attitude towards men isn't particularly relevant to the topic at hand, unless Stroopwafel's side is trying to justify sexual harassment through this argument of frustration due to lack of sex, which both him and the other people that have supported him throughout the thread claim isn't their goal.
So yeah, of course you're free to continue if you wish, I'm just stating my opinion of the relevancy of this argument to this topic.
So yeah, of course you're free to continue if you wish, I'm just stating my opinion of the relevancy of this argument to this topic.
Ever since an incident with one of the YouTubers I watch getting accused of some not-good stuff, and coming out a couple months later with evidence to counter the more criminal accusations, I've become a bit leery about allegations of this sort.
That's not to say I automatically believe the accusers are lying, far from it. I've just learned that a knee-jerk "Down with the rapist" attitude is not the right tack to take, either. My new stance is closer to "I hope that's not true, but let's see what comes of it." I've also learned that just because someone doesn't respond right away doesn't prove their guilt. Instead, they could just be gathering up actual evidence to counter the claims.
That's not to say I automatically believe the accusers are lying, far from it. I've just learned that a knee-jerk "Down with the rapist" attitude is not the right tack to take, either. My new stance is closer to "I hope that's not true, but let's see what comes of it." I've also learned that just because someone doesn't respond right away doesn't prove their guilt. Instead, they could just be gathering up actual evidence to counter the claims.
Could the argument be made that all of this serves as an argument for returning to some kind of vetting system for male/female relationships?
Do they? In what way precisely? I'd certainly agree men usually have to put more effort in, because we live in a society where men are still expected to do the chasing.
But there's nothing here to adequately prove or explain the case generally. For instance:
1) There's no hard statistics yet presented men are doing particularly badly at having sex overall. This 80/20 stuff is barely evidence at all.
2) Yes, millennials appear to be having less sex whilst young than previous generations. But there is no evidence that generally this is a particular problem. It's clearly a problem for some, but if we say 28% of under-25 men haven't had sex in the last year, how many really minded or were looking that hard? I mean, I think back to my university days and it wasn't that unusual for people to be putting little or no effort in.
3) Some of the arguments appear to be about the fact that subjective claims are being presented as universal, like every man wouldn't turn down an offer from an attractive woman. But these sorts of claims just aren't true and you can't make a case on them.
Now, I imagine if you're a horny man not very good at getting laid, you have a predisposition to think it's all incredibly unfair as you observe the women of your dreams picking other men over you. But I wonder if thought is really going to (for instance) low-attractiveness women, who aren't getting many offers, and almost certainly not ones from the men they'd like to get offers from. I suspect in fact the general distribution of getting laid is actually pretty similar: a 10-20% at the top fucking pretty much as they like, going through about 50-60% getting varying degrees of some, and a tail end of very rarely or not.
I should also point out that I am a 31 (and counting) year old virgin. That's because I have a lot of stuff going on in my life and mind, and while I've dated in the past, I should not have because my mental state was not right for putting the effort in.
Having a relationship is a two-way street, and if people can't accept that, they don't deserve one. That goes for men and women alike.
Having a relationship is a two-way street, and if people can't accept that, they don't deserve one. That goes for men and women alike.
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My take on the whole dating problems among men and woman I stick to this simple analogy. Its the conundrum of a person surrounded by nothing but water and person dying of thirst in a desert and wanting to swap places with each other.
The analogy is not perfect but it has a better base than the usual of assuming lying feminist ***** vs. raging woman controlling misogynist these conversation tend seethe with.
The analogy is not perfect but it has a better base than the usual of assuming lying feminist ***** vs. raging woman controlling misogynist these conversation tend seethe with.
Yeah, do I really have to explain over and over why it is much, much easier for women to get laid than it is for men? You can consider this unfair without coming to some kind of nefarious conclusion. There is no hidden agenda here that is the whole point. It are SJW's and male 'feminists' who are hypocrites and have hidden agendas.
Men can never complain because they have been indoctrinated to always 'suck it up' or need to repent for 'the patriarchy' or whatever bullshit they believe is responsible for 'male privilege' and women can complain incessantly when someone as much as steps on their toes and the media and male 'feminists' and SJW's will all bend over backwards.
But I agree with Kae that we're just going around in circles now so let's just leave it at that.
USA
Maybe if you adjusted your statement to be "It is much easier for attractive women and men to get laid than anyone else," and it would be accurate. The way you responded to overweight women goes to prove the point that the statement does not apply to those less attractive of either sex. You personally do not like overweight women, some men do. Some cultures they ONLY consider overweight women to be attractive and think skinny women are gross. Others do not like women with big noses, others do not like women with heavy eyebrows, others do not like brown eyes, others only like blondes or red heads, others only like small breasted women, others only like large breasted women.. you see this goes on and on as to what their personal preferences are, the reality is though MEN have more personal preference requirements that apply to valuing women by their appearance vs women having more personal preferences that value men by their personalities. That is why attractive women sometimes end up with much less attractive men regardless of income or any other factors being present.
In addition, if a guy thinks " I will bang anything" THAT is the core of his problem, the fact that he tries to pursue a woman who he thinks is unattractive but will " settle for her" is why she wants nothing to do with him, and neither does anyone else. You see, there ARE men out there who thinks that very same girl is the most beautiful, amazing woman he has ever met. That is who she winds up with, because he is the one who is worth going out with, not the dumbass who ignorantly undervalued who she really was in the first place. Believe it or not, there are plenty of men, better men, who do not even rate women by their appearance, that value the same things women do in a relationship, and those are the men who wind up with the women in the end here. The nummuts sitting around feeling sorry for themselves while harshly and unfairly judging everyone else are not even in the running for a date because of how they view women in the first place. If a guy thinks "meh, she is a 2 at best.." in the first place, he should realize that him thinking that at all is the personality flaw that is leading to his own demise. He fails to realize that not everyone sees the world the way he does. It is the way he views women that is toxic and women would be better to avoid him entirely, even if he thinks they are a 10. He would have to work on his toxic behavior before he will even be ready for any sort of relationship.
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I might agree as a theoretical statement. It's just I think the practical reality is more like: "it's easier for women to get laid as long as they're prepared to be laid by someone they don't really want to get laid by".
When we want to consider what's "unfair", understanding those sorts of practical realities is incredibly important. An "advantage" that doesn't provide a benefit isn't really an advantage.