Shaky Cam Games

[SFR]

I really hope the last actual paragraph was a joke. If not, Yatzee has some serious problems and probably shouldn't be aloud to tell anyone anything. Based on the way they were worded probably shows he was kidding, but just in case, you've got to remember people play games to be someone else. Oh, and unless RE5 was called Resident Evil 5: How to Hate Your Fellow "Minority", playing it is in no way racist. I will tell you one thing, if there were no black people in the game it'd be even more racist.

Yeah, I know, the tribal parts. Blah blah blah. It's called enemy variation. Get over it.

Edit: Also, I loved Clover-field. I thought they did the camera movement perfectly. Then again, my stomach doesn't suck.

 

[Fists]

But I'm a [closet] emo, selfish, self-hating, [maybe not] physically weak, sexist, responsibility-avoiding whiner who sympathizes with Republican economic policies and I didn't really like God of War. I much rather running around as a demi-god in sandboxes like oblivion.

 

[badgersprite]

Shaky cam in games would only work well in something survival horror like Silent Hill. I know the first game threw a couple of angles like this at the player, and that sense of not knowing what you're looking at or feeling out of control is exactly what you want in a game where the very atmosphere is supposed to be hostile towards you. In survival horror, feeling like you can't see anything actually works, which is why this shaky cam technique is so frequent in the horror film genre. It doesn't work in action or shoot em ups.

 

[Spelonker]

Well Yahtzee, the reason I'm guessing "shaky/handheld cam" is being used in games now is because of how they're going for a more "cinematic" feel these days. Handheld camera is used in films when there's a real intense scene going on and isn't just relegated to "Cloverfield" or "Blair Witch". Pick almost any modern film and you'll notice camera shake in the intense scenes, weither they're action packed, or just emotional. It's usually very subtle in film, but it obviously doesn't go well in games when it's constantly there. Makes you feel drunk.

What I do think works well is camera shake when it's reflected in gameplay. Like when you give someone a nice strong attack and the screen shakes a little, or if there's an explosion. It works nicely with the vibration of the controller too. And actually, I can think of a good few action games that use this. God of War for example. And thus we've come full circle. Very Buddhist.

 

[Labcoat Samurai]

OT: Look, I bought LoS before the review. I enjoyed it. It was a time filler for me, but not more then that. I thought it was cheeky how they took things from other games and tried to build on it. They didn't really..build on it though as much as just take it and stick it in the game with some duct tape. But I digress. I enjoy ZP and XP because I know how Yahtzee is. Even if he says a game is horrible and I happen to like it, I don't go rabid fanboy on him. I usually just say " Hmm, he may be right. LOL penis joke! " And that's all you can really do. Unless you're a rabid fanboy in which case, grow up. Not everyone likes what you like and no one has to hold your hand and sing songs with you.

I don't get it. It seems that the people who want to hold hands and sing songs are the ones who can't tolerate disagreement. Not everyone agrees with Yahtzee. Is the reaction thread not the appropriate place to say so? If not, then what's the point of the reaction thread? Are we all supposed to share our favorite Yahtzee joke? If so, how boring.

Honestly, if I think Yahtzee is on form, funny, and insightful (which, yes, I do sometimes), I can't think of anything I care to say in the reaction thread. His ego is fine, and he doesn't need me to stroke it.

I can't think of many things more insipid or redundant than 10 pages of comments about how brilliant Yahtzee's latest video/column was.

EDIT: rereading this, I think I sound more bitter and cynical than I actually feel. Pretend I added some smileys or something maybe....

 

[CopperBoom]

I am only a racist when I play with another human.

 

[Grygor]

It has quick light attacks and slow heavy attacks, as well as combos involving the two, air combos and the ability to grab and instakill the enemy with the circle button if you're just completely bored with tossing the guy around. You gather souls from enemies and use them to upgrade your combos and magic spells you learn along the way, and collect things that eventually make your health and magic bars bigger. Then at the end of it you kill whoever the local equivalent of Satan is.

Sorry Yahtzee, but I'd have to say "like Castlevania" should have been the phrase. I don't mean the new Castelvania games, I mean the old, classic ones. They have all of these features:

Collect souls - collect hearts
Instakill - special weapons
Kill Satan - Dracula

The other details are in both games as well, especially if you take into consideration Symphony of the Night.

Yeah, I don't think this really works:

It has quick light attacks and slow heavy attacks, Not really. There's only a single normal attack button until you get to Symphony of the Night, and even there, it's left hand and right hand, and while you can turn this into light/heavy with the right equipment choices, it's not quite the same thing, and doesn't serve the same function.

as well as combos involving the two, Definitely not. No combos of any kind.

air combos and the ability to grab and instakill the enemy with the circle button if you're just completely bored with tossing the guy around. The special weapons you mentioned above don't count. They don't function as finishers, they don't kill instantly, and some of them don't do any damage whatsoever. They're supplemental weapons that give the player offensive control over more of the play field, which is something entirely different from an instakill move.

You gather souls from enemies and use them to upgrade your combos and magic spells you learn along the way, Castlevania hearts are used to fuel special weapons, not upgrade your abilities. And hearts are obtained primarily by breaking candles; enemies rarely drop them. The "metroidvanias" add money, but this is used primarily to buy items - ability upgrades are generally found lying around the castle. The closest thing to this is in Aria of Sorrow and Dawn of Sorrow, but even then, the souls you obtain from enemies ARE the spells, rather than being exchanged for them later (although DoS allows you to exchange souls for weapon upgrades).

and collect things that eventually make your health and magic bars bigger. In the older 2D CV games, both bars are fixed in size - but since damage received increases as you progress through the game, your life bar actually gets effectively shorter. For the metroidvanias, it depends on the game - Symphony of the Night, for example, has collectibles that increase your life and heart meters, while in Aria of Sorrow they grow automatically as your level increases.

Then at the end of it you kill whoever the local equivalent of Satan is. I'll give you this one; in the Castlevania series, Dracula basically IS Satan.

 

[Labcoat Samurai]

Yeah, I don't think this really works:

[snip]

You make a number of spot on points here. It is an enormous stretch to compare the gameplay mechanics of LoS to classic Castlevania games. But what exactly *should* they have done? One attack button and no combos? At least you do find subweapon ammo by breaking candles and whatnot. And the art design *is* very true to the series.

But otherwise, most of these features are as common in the genre as regenerating health in modern FPSs or chest high walls in cover based shooters. Yahtzee was almost ready to concede that what we really have is a genre with lots of common elements. And he should have, because that would be accurate. I'm sure I could cherry pick the same number of things between just about any two games within the same genre in order to call them clones of each other. It doesn't prove a thing.

Here, let's give it a try:

All happens because of an experiment gone horribly wrong, an Alien infestation infects people and turns them into murderous monsters, you have access to various futuristic guns, the protagonist is a scientist who never says a word the entire game, and it ultimately ends with a battle against a massive boss on an alien world which you don't visit until nearly the end of the game.

There. Dead Space = Half-Life. Except it really, really doesn't.

I'll grant CV and GoW share more in common than Dead Space and Half-Life, but my point is that the spin game is easy to play, and a handful of distorted, cherry-picked similarities proves nothing.

 

[LimeJester]

While I don't think Yahtzee is too far off with his pop-culture analysis, I feel the need to point out that the physically strong hero representing the relative weakness of the general population is has been a feature of literature since the very beginning in many different region's myths. It just used to be a response to the powerlessness against the environment, the struggle for survival, not your Father for not letting you take the car out last Friday night, GOD!

 

[AceAngel]

I wonder if Yahtzee ever get depressed...because you know, half of the people posting are MISSING THE BLOODY POINT in his EP.

 

[ResiEvalJohn]

It makes so much sense now! I always hated RE5, but I blamed that hate on the shitty Co-op system. Now that I know it's because I'm not racist, I feel so much more enlightened

 

[mikespoff]

"So, if God of War is popular, it's because lots of people today are emo, selfish, self-hating, physically weak, sexist, responsibility-avoiding whiners who sympathize with Republican economic policies." -Crosshaw

I very much like this theory, might explain why everyone also like zombie games, you picture yourself as the only person with a brain left to be eaten by the monstrous hordes of mall going consumers.

You make a good point (as does Yahtzee in the post). The original fascination and horror of zombies (as characters) is driven by the uncanny-valley dread of something resembling a human body, but with no mind or spirit. The fascination with the zombie genre, on the other hand, seems more likely to be driven by consumers who imagine that they are the only people left who aren't like, you know, slaves to that whole media-driven consumerist bullsh*t, dude.

 

[Caradinist]

Yahtzee, to help explain why it was on Lords of Shadow...Zobek was holding the camera. It explains everything.

 

[romxxii]

Yeah, it's a bit obnoxious when he treats something good that you like as though it was a pile of crap. CV is a really good game, and he's gone easier on some legitimately awful games. Oh well. If you read Yahtzee without first eating your spoonful of salt, you're likely to run into this from time to time.

You must have missed the memo. It's Yahtzee's schtick to rag on games. It's not just games you hate, it's all games he can be bothered to review. He's reviewed a couple of games that I really liked, and he hated them. I don't care, I don't consider these game reviews in the usual sense, but more like vitriol-fueled comedy pieces.

While it's true he's heaped praises upon certain games that might not be so deserving, those were really just the kind of games he enjoys. And you don't expect to share the same tastes with a late twenties-early thirties something, bitter British male whose only joy in life is playing games, trolling fanboys and getting paid to do so because he feels so clever, do you?

Just to quote Yahtzee:

It's worth remembering that all reviews are subjective personal opinions, and if you personally enjoy the game then they shouldn't really get to you. Unless of course there's a despicable little niggling doubt in the back of your mind, that maybe you're not having as much fun as you've convinced yourself you're having...

 

[Labcoat Samurai]

You must have missed the memo. It's Yahtzee's schtick to rag on games. It's not just games you hate, it's all games he can be bothered to review. He's reviewed a couple of games that I really liked, and he hated them. I don't care, I don't consider these game reviews in the usual sense, but more like vitriol-fueled comedy pieces.

Well, a couple things. First, if you're paying attention, you can tell the difference between the usual ragging that's just part of his shtick and the mountain of bile he heaps on games he truly despises. I do account for that. Second, Yahtzee himself considers them more than that, having protested early on that he may exaggerate, but never says something he doesn't believe.

But generally, sure, I'm with you. Not sure how you didn't take that away from my post. Especially the part where I said you're likely to run into the problem of getting fed up with his reviews if you forget to take them with the prerequisite spoonful of salt... you even quoted it...

While it's true he's heaped praises upon certain games that might not be so deserving, those were really just the kind of games he enjoys. And you don't expect to share the same tastes with a late twenties-early thirties something,

Actually, I've got a few years on Yahtzee.

bitter British male whose only joy in life is playing games, trolling fanboys and getting paid to do so because he feels so clever, do you?

Aww that's not very nice. You must have missed all the shameless plugging for his budding careers as novelist and bar owner.

Just to quote Yahtzee:

It's worth remembering that all reviews are subjective personal opinions, and if you personally enjoy the game then they shouldn't really get to you. Unless of course there's a despicable little niggling doubt in the back of your mind, that maybe you're not having as much fun as you've convinced yourself you're having...

This is good advice. I think you've misjudged me if you think it's something I need to hear, though.

 

[ohgodalex]

Your mom likes it too. I've just come from her house, which is why I'm wearing it

Seriously, though.... yeah, I like the game. I guess that makes me a fan of it. What's your point?

I'm only sad that I will never be juvenile enough to find joy in mental retardation. You're so lucky.

My point is that your point is invalidated by bias. You're so evidently blinded by your love for the main character's tortured soul and inner nuances that you feel the need to deny the undeniable.

 

[DragonWright]

Of course we shouldn't be calling them GoW Clones.

...we should be calling them DMC Clones, since Devil May Cry came first.

Anyway, I thought you wanted to call them Spectacle Fighters.

 

[romxxii]

Well, a couple things. First, if you're paying attention, you can tell the difference between the usual ragging that's just part of his shtick and the mountain of bile he heaps on games he truly despises. I do account for that. Second, Yahtzee himself considers them more than that, having protested early on that he may exaggerate, but never says something he doesn't believe.

Yeah, I can tell when the reviews are nerd-rage induced. And you know what? They're funnier that way. His best videos are the ones filled with either blinding hate or sickening fanboyism. Creativity's powered by strong emotions, what can I say?

But generally, sure, I'm with you. Not sure how you didn't take that away from my post. Especially the part where I said you're likely to run into the problem of getting fed up with his reviews if you forget to take them with the prerequisite spoonful of salt... you even quoted it...

You want me to quote you again? "Yeah, it's a bit obnoxious when he treats something good that you like as though it was a pile of crap. CV is a really good game, and he's gone easier on some legitimately awful games. Oh well. If you read Yahtzee without first eating your spoonful of salt, you're likely to run into this from time to time."

That's two full sentences complaining about how you don't like it when he complains about games you think are good, and doesn't do the same for games that you think aren't.

Sure, you had the parting shot about taking it with a grain of salt, but by that time you've made your point clear, am I right? It's like telling someone "no offense" just before you launch into a 10-minute diatribe of why they're such a horrible person.

Aww that's not very nice. You must have missed all the shameless plugging for his budding careers as novelist and bar owner.

Touche, I'll give you that.

This is good advice. I think you've misjudged me if you think it's something I need to hear, though.

Based on your posts so far, I think I've at least judged your love for this game, and your failure to understand Yahtzee's hate for it. That's a subjective issue, I have no problems with that. Now, complaining about how much he hates your game starts to smack of the defensive fanboyism the SSBB crowd was so infamous for.

Pardon me if I'm making another misinterpretation of your character here.

 

[Tempest13]

1. Fuck the shaky cam
2. Chain weapons are cool...too bad they're overused in one genre.

 

[Zyphonee]

The shaky cam was properly used in Saving Private Ryan as a way to portrait how adrenaline pumping and impotent the whole situation is. It really gives the signal to your mind of "Oh crap, shit's going on, fight or flee", which is great for effect. In videogaming, this effect should be kept subtle, if used at all. In your Shadow of the Colossus, you mentioned that the fights really felt colossal. That is a good example of shaky cam, Painkiller's bosses, for example, didn't feel as big, even though they were much larger in size. In games like K&L2, it seems they are trying to use this technique in order to emulate the game being cinematic, although it doesn't replace proper pacing and just ends up making you dizzy.