Xprimentyl said:
Happyninja42 said:
Xprimentyl said:
The Architect basically explains that the formation of Zion is a known thing that he allows to happen, as a layer of control for the percentage of humans that reject the matrix. I always just assumed it was something that the machines would be ordered to just ignore for a sufficient amount of time. Basically just having them have an "out of bounds" type protocol, and just ignore The One for the iteration of the Matrix, and his handful of others selected to repopulate Zion.
And that The One, and the handful are basically aware of what they are doing, but after several generations, it's just lost to time. Or The One for that iteration just doesn't tell them that he's made a deal with the Architect, and just convinces them they were able to escape. If The One for that iteration is as powerful as Neo is shown to be, I don't think it's that far fetched to think he could mask their presence to the machines, long enough to set up a new Zion.
Hmm? I?m willing to believe as you believe, that Zion is
allowed to exist, but that still leaves the
how? It?s underground, closer to the Earth?s core where it?s warm; ever dug a hole? What?d you do with all the stuff filling the space where the hole now is? Ever dug a hole several thousand meters deep and then dug out a cavity big enough to accommodate thousands of people and then filled it with structurally sound buildings and advanced technologies making your several thousand meters underground cavity effectively a city? Every done all that discreetly? Even if the machines allowed Zion to exist, the few free humans simply could not have done it.
I?ll add to your theory: perhaps the machines built Zion?
Oh I agree, the entire premise is incredibly far fetched, no argument there. But to the initial question of "how did they do all that and not be noticed by the machines" I just figured it was sort of a "deal with the devil" kind of thing, between The One and the Architect. Since the Architect flat out said allowing those who reject it to leave was the best way to control that variance in humanity, to him, it's not really rebels, it's just a Variance Habitat. A pressure valve if you will. So yeah, he could totally have it set up where the machines build some "ruins of the old world" or whatever, when it's time for Zion 5.0 (after destroying Zion 4.0), but nobody knows that. Then just tell The One "hey here are the coordinates for a suitable habitation location we have prepared for you. There are suitable 'ruined' materials you can utilize to create rudimentary machines for survival, and sustenance." And then The One "discovers" the ruins with his band of people to repopulate the city.
Given the level of control The Architect likes to have over literally every possible contingency and situation, this seems perfectly logical and machine like in thinking. It's no effort at all for them to terraform some caverns to make the ruins for The One, and then just leaving it alone as it's literally part of their system. They are the control mechanism, so allowing them to use it is helping the functionality of The Matrix.
Now, I fully admit that none of this is directly stated in the film (as best as I can recall), but..actually let me rewatch that one scene.... ok so, yeah I just rewatched the Architect scene, and he flat out tells Neo that once Zion is destroyed, he is to select 23 other people to repopulate Zion. He says that outright. So it's all part of the layers of control. He KNOWS Zion exists, he accounts for it in His Plan. That's the whole point. It's there to give the anomalies of humanity a place to go, essentially, a human society septic tank, as far as the machines are concerned. To them, the purging of Zion (which they've done 5 times prior to Neo showing up) could be compared to dumping out the waste tank because it got full. The humans there reached a level where their interference with the Matrix was more of a hindrance, than their purpose as a human waste repository. So, dump it out, purge it, and then let The One and his 23 Breeders, start over. Sure it's a repeating process but, I mean, that's a process, a system, that's what the machines are all about. To them it's not a problem, it's just the system functioning normally. Zion = Septic Tank, and it serves it's purpose until reaching capacity, at which time, procedure is dump it and then go back to work until it's full again.
So yeah, to me that suggests, since Architect directly orders Neo to do this, that they probably always know where Zion is, they just ignore it, and let the humans live in a state of false security, that they are "hidden". And the war in Revolutions is just the unpleasant, messy work of dumping out the trash.
